Templar 250.. Pull behind trailer!?

[solidsnake2431]

So I like to think outside the box when possible and I also like to take stuff to the limits. I like to ride around and explore but I also have to work and do estimates for my mobile welding business. So I thought why not make a small light pull behind so that when I get a call I could hook a trailer onto it to hold my welder and hand tools.

So this is what I found..
It weights under 100lbs yet it is rated to carry 1,500lbs!!! The bed is 4.6 feet so there will be plenty of room for anything I would ever need to put in it. My welder only weights about 40lbs and then I have about 30lbs of cords and tools exc for a total of under 200lbs of weight including trailer.

I need help designing a basic hitch system. I have never had a pull behind on a motorcycle so I don't know how they typically connect but it looks like they usually connect to the swing arm. Again I am a welder so I can weld up some kind of small coupler to the back of the swingarm but I need a basic design that is lightweight and easy to connect yet strong enough.

[Bruces]

It sounds like you are intending to pull that trailer down the road ?if so ,I think that trailer will not have high speed bearings and will not work for very long at all .I have a trailer just like that one ,and it does not have descent bearings ,just press in junk like a hand cart .I will say that I put my Miller Bluestar gas powered welder in that trailer and it handles it like a dream at my camp ,and my welder is much heavier than yours and I have 100’ of 4/0 cable on it .

[GypsyR]

As long as you didn't mind going snail slow and had lower geared sprockets, I guess a 250 would pull that. BUT, you have to stop. Knowing how any loaded trailer "pushes" the vehicle pulling it when stopping I'd give it a hell no. You're gonna need a bigger boat..err, bike!

[Thumper]

It's a good point that the trailer will develop inertia, and a 300lb motorcycle with a 200lb driver = 500 lbs. You might want to focus on a motorcycle trailer like this. It has high speed bearings, and 600lb capacity. But keep the cargo load down so that the trailer doesn't outweigh the tow vehicle!

30806

[Bikenut]

I have seen many large bikes (Gold Wings, Harleys, BMWs) pulling trailers but will echo the concerns about a trailer that, in this case, likely will be more than half the bike/rider combination. I would be concerned about the trailer pushing the bike/rider when stopping and cornering. Kinda like the tail wagging the dog. Some of that can be compensated for by the rider being very careful under normal conditions but as riders we all know normal conditions rarely remain "normal" for long.

[TominMO]

I don't think you want to connect it to the swing arm. Too much movement up and down, which will cause weird handling issues. You need some kind of connection coming off the frame, and probably a u-joint. Do some research on how trailers are attached to touring bikes, which are a lot heavier than your bike, therefore more stable and have larger brakes.

For the trailer itself, I'd suggest the smallest Harbor Freight trailer:
https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/trailers-towing/1090-lb-capacity-40-12-in-x-48-in-utility-trailer-62665.html

[TominMO]

https://bushtec.com/blogs/posts/simple-guide-pulling-trailer-motorcycle

[solidsnake2431]

I completely understand all the aspects and challenges of pull behind trailers on motorcycles. But the two trailers you guys suggested at both DOUBBLE the weight of the trailer I picked out and also smaller at the same time. The trailer I picked out is only 100 pounds.

Also I really need to figure out a mounting/hitch system. That is what I am looking for help with. Thanks!

[krat]

I completely understand all the aspects and challenges of pull behind trailers on motorcycles. But the two trailers you guys suggested at both DOUBBLE the weight of the trailer I picked out and also smaller at the same time. The trailer I picked out is only 100 pounds.

Also I really need to figure out a mounting/hitch system. That is what I am looking for help with. Thanks!

You may know about welding but you seem to lack knowledge about heat, friction and the law.

The trailer you are focused on is illegal to put on the road behind a vehicle. It is a utility cart made to be pulled by a lawn tractor, and the bearings will burn out the first ten miles down a road at 40mph. You will be launching wheels and axles into oncoming traffic.

That is the reason for the weight on the trailers being recommended. It is a by product of the road safety requirement which requires DOT approved tires, a safe axle, bearings, wheels, wiring, lights and turn signals.

As for a "hitch setup", that is not all that complicated. You weld an extension to the frame and attach a connecting device. It can be incredibly complicated such as the ones in the EU, or as simple as a pintle hook and loop like the military uses.

I believe that U-Haul might have the small motorcycle hitch balls available. Not sure where to get the trailer side of the small hookup. Otherwise I would check with an Indian, Honda Goldwing or Harley dealer.

[severely]

Agree with TominMO on the trailer choice, used one for over ten years camping in my younger days. I've made hitches using flat 1 1/2"x 1/4" strap for the main beam, bolted to footpeg brackets and support straps 1 1/2"x 1/4" bolted around the seat/signal area down to main strap. Make a small rear plate for the ball or a vertical post on which a rod end from the trailer is slipped over. Make sure the trailer wheel bearings are actually bearings and not bushings. Good luck.

[solidsnake2431]

You may know about welding but you seem to lack knowledge about heat, friction and the law.

.

Maybe I wasn't clear about the trailer. I was not intending to run it in completely stock form. When you can weld and do simple fabrication you can easily upgrade bearings. I was buying the trailer for the main structure. That does not mean I would nessisarily keep the bearings that came on it if they were shown to be a weak inappropriate. You can't expect me to build a custom hitch mount and keep the trailer unmodified if there were weak points. About the legality I don't think there is any specific law that says the trailer would be illegal to use. If you can find the specific law I would like to read it. Because you can piece together just about any trailer and use it on the road. They are so relaxed in my state you don't even need lights on it and they don't even need to be registered even or have plates!!

Also another thing I might not have been clear about was that this was not something I was going to use on a regular dialy basis. This was soothing to be used every once in a while.

[Mikd]

This is an interesting project! Please post some pics and updates as you progress.

[Thumper]

I like the low profile of this one
https://www.northerntool.com/products/ultra-tow-tag-along-pull-behind-motorcycle-cargo-trailer-steel-frame-16-6-cu-ft-storage-600-lb-load-capacity-57762

It needs no modification other than your custom welder support, has wheels and bearings made for the road, and it will come with a trailer certificate of origin so it won't need any inspection for registering and plating. It is a little heavy, but you are talking about maybe 100 pounds of cargo, so gross weight will be under 300lbs. The low profile and weight should make it pretty stable.

The dumpcart you posted at the top seems OK to me. The wheel bearings are typical dolly or hand truck bearings. You may be able to replace them eventually with high speed bearings that actually fit as direct replacements.

The only big problem I see is lack of suspension. It will bounce dangerously on anomalies, potholes, bumps. You'll need to get trailer lights and wire it as well. Regarding plates, I don't know what you are facing there. You may need inspection/approval from highway patrol/state police. That's how they do it around here.

[Thumper]

One other comment. All of the trailers suggested have one real consequence. Intersections will be white knuckles. If you have to stop fast, I think you are going down.

The motorcycles that typically haul trailers weigh over 400 kilos and have grippy road tires, with three hefty disk brakes. A dirt bike/Enduro doesn't have the traction, stiffness, suspension needed to safely stop a trailer fast.

[TominMO]

From the reference in post #7:
"Only pull a trailer that weighs lower than 20% of your total weight (vehicle + riders + gear). The actual weight of the trailer must be lower than the curb weight of the motorbike."

Even the Harbor Freight trailer I recommended is 150 lbs. With say 450 lbs of bike + rider, that's 33% of the total, on a light bike with brakes engineered for non-trailer use. Add the trailer + 70 lbs of cargo, and you have 670 lbs total. Even if the trailer weighed only 80 lbs, it's still 600 lbs total, with a physics wild card attached to the back of the bike.

My conclusion is that this is a bad idea overall. You get credit for thinking outside the box, but not all ideas should be pursued.

[Hunnicutt]

Have you considered buying a Goldwing? Honda made millions of them and they're easy to find at reasonable prices.

[GypsyR]

I moved a 1984 Goldwing for someone locally. Not my thing but it rode fine and it all worked. Afterwards they offered it to me for $600. Not up my alley but a deal for someone for sure. It didn't look bad for its age either. Someone bought it. I would think nothing of adding such a trailer to a bike like that with more mass and bigger brakes.

[solidsnake2431]

One other comment. All of the trailers suggested have one real consequence. Intersections will be white knuckles. If you have to stop fast, I think you are going down.

The motorcycles that typically haul trailers weigh over 400 kilos and have grippy road tires, with three hefty disk brakes. A dirt bike/Enduro doesn't have the traction, stiffness, suspension needed to safely stop a trailer fast.

Yes the bike itself is lighter then most that carry trailers but I am not running stock suspension, stock brakes or stock knobbies on my bike. I have bigger brake calipers, much stiffer suspension and street oriented tires.

Hell... the stock front suspension on the bike alone you can't stop on the street because it's so soft the suspension just dives instead of slowing the bike down ;). That was the first thing I fixed on it.

[solidsnake2431]

I wanted to put an alternative to a regular ball style receiver. That way if the bike where to tip over or the trailer where to it they were be independent of each other. I was looking at something like this swivel bearing.

[Bruces]

What do you think will happen if that “playground swivel “broke and your trailer injured or killed some one ?

[GypsyR]

I have bigger brake calipers,

Hell... the stock front suspension on the bike alone you can't stop on the street because it's so soft the suspension just dives instead of slowing the bike down ;). That was the first thing I fixed on it.
Bigger brake calipers? Umm, got pictures and/or sources for these calipers?

What did you for anti-dive? I have not found it to be really an issue with my model of Templar, just curious.

[Thumper]

Drain and refill the fork oil with Motul expert 15W med/heavy for a quick upgrade on the front fork. There are other brands as well. It is already a massive fork, it just needs heavier oil.

You really need dual front disks, but the spokes might pull out under hard braking, or the frame might bend/twist or both...and either way, all go sideways if/when you have to brake hard. IMHO :wtf:

Keep in mind that dirt bikes are engineered to be light, agile. Oh, you can adapt a trailer pulling dirt bike. But braking just isn't going to be easy.

[solidsnake2431]

Bigger brake calipers? Umm, got pictures and/or sources for these calipers?

What did you for anti-dive? I have not found it to be really an issue with my model of Templar, just curious.

The front forks dive because the springs are too soft and there is not adequate preload adjustment. I put the preload spacers that are sold for it then I combined it with 20 WT shock oil, filled the oil up a little bit higher then the stock level. Got a front Brembo brake caliper with the matching brembo master cylinder and braided lines..They come stock on the new KTM 500 EXC and 450 motocross bikes. VERY big upgrade you can nearly stand the bike on the front wheel slowing down from 120+ mph (my KTM 500 supermoto has them) I had to make a custom bracket for the caliper.

The stock rear brake caliper on the X model is actually a dual piston and is a lot larger and works better then nearly all new high end motocross and adventure bikes out there (believe it or not)

[GypsyR]

Cool enough. Jacking around with the front forks has been detailed elsewhere on this site too. I don't do a lot of stoppies or thrash mine on pavement. I was able to get the stock front setup adjusted to my taste. Still messing with the rear though.

Got pictures of the caliper adapter you made? Not sure I'd want to put a bigger caliper on my Templar's puny little rotor but it sounds interesting. I once made caliper brackets to adapt aluminum dual piston PBR calipers to my '67 Mustang.

[Thumper]

A set of 6 piston calipers from a GSXR 750 fit perfectly on a first gen Bandit 1200S for me a couple of decades ago. The mounts on the fork tubes and the rotors lined up perfectly. But KTM to Templar is unexpected!

I still think you need two disks, and those spoke are going to get heavy torque. They might loosen up, or worse, pop out. You'll need to keep an eye on that.

I'd like to see that caliper from the KTM on the Templar. That is worthy of posting in the Templar resource guide. Can you post a photo?

[TominMO]

My welder only weighs about 40lbs and then I have about 30lbs of cords and tools.....
Since you are only talking about 70 lbs of cargo, the weight of a small child, rather than screwing around with a trailer, altering brakes etc, why not come up with a system with hard saddlebags and a rack? Preferably fairly easy to attach and remove.

[Thumper]

Well, the trailer option allows you to leave the gear behind easily. But it could be set up to do that with a "quick" release rack mount. OK, a few wing nuts? Could be "fast".

[GypsyR]

I've got similar sized MIG welder. I guess could see it on a custom rack, carried like a trunk. As long as the rest of the stuff was carried down low saddlebag style I picture it all being not much more unwieldy than a somewhat hefty passenger.
One of these days I need to get back on that trunk for mine. Stalled out on making a quick disconnect for the wiring for the brake and turn signals.

[Bruces]

I've got similar sized MIG welder. I guess could see it on a custom rack, carried like a trunk. As long as the rest of the stuff was carried down low saddlebag style I picture it all being not much more unwieldy than a somewhat hefty passenger.
One of these days I need to get back on that trunk for mine. Stalled out on making a quick disconnect for the wiring for the brake and turn signals.

Just use a simple trailer light connector

[GypsyR]

Just use a simple trailer light connector

I probably have a half dozen of those in stock but I bought some WeatherPak style ones I like better for the ability to lock them and later easily quick release them without having to wrestle like you have to with four wire trailer bullet style connector. My tail light wires are fairly puny.

My issue is time. I'm not really fond of tapping into a perfectly good wiring harness without doing a high quality job of it. IE, I probably will up the game from Scotch-Loks. Haven't decided on crimp style taps or cutting and soldering yet really. I don't have enough three-way crimp connectors I think. Ought to go look I expect.