X-Pro 150cc // Vader 150 // Lifan 150

[ProDigit]

The order:

2 Weeks ago, I bought the Xpro-150 from Walmart. It was on discount for $1400 shipping included, and just $200 more than the Vader 125.

I have had a 4Gear 125cc Chinese bike before, and know this wasn't going to be enough for me where I live.
Like most Chinese bikes, they're geared way too short.
My older Chinese bike had a step through gearing. From the factory it had sprockets so low geared, it managed only 80MPG and about 45-50MPH top speed.
I added +2T up front, and -8t rear, and the bike was purring at 2-2.5k RPM, at 35-45MPH, and at those speeds reached an astonishing 120MPG!!
I really loved that bike, however, I had the option of either gearing it fun (15/34T), or gearing it fuel efficient, but dog slow acceleration (17/31T).
After a while I gave up riding, and sold it.

Recently, I wanted to ride again, but even my 375LBS CBR300R was a pain getting out of the shed.
I wanted something light.
When I saw the walmart ad for the Vader 150, the grom clone with 5 gears, I went for it!

The extra 25CC from a 125cc would be a welcome addition, while at the same time the fuel mileage would still be between the 125 and my Honda Rebel 250, I hoped.
I realized I don't need a big bike. I don't actually like going that fast.
I enjoy doing the 30-50mph trips, and if I can do that at 100MPG it'd be even better!
There's just one thing I absolutely disliked about biking, is how heavy bikes are, when you have to either push them, turn them, lift them up, or move them in any direction other than where the wheels can bring you.
The Vader 150 (grom Clone) is still heavy at 235LBS, but less so. I found only the front is heavy. I have no problems picking up the rear.

Unpacking, impressions

The bike finally arrived in a crate past Tuesday, with the bill of sale and some form of title arriving 2 days before.

Once I opened the crate I was pretty amazed at what I got.
Not only does the 150cc engine have better motor mounts than the 125, but the entire engine is coated/painted, including the exhaust.
Most mods I would do to the bike were already done.
The mirrors were acceptable (no lollypops), the exhaust sounded ok (no sowing machine), exhaust tube was coated, and the handlebars were sturdy 1" bars.
Also the gear shifter was a solid piece of steel.
The rear blinkers are LEDs, and the low and high beam were bright white LEDs, looking almost like white halogen beams.

The only thing I thought was a little less, was the right brake pedal, but certainly enough for non-stunters, who probably won't fall anyway.
The included oil drain bolt was of the magnetic type. However, the magnet wasn't as strong as the after market ones sold on amazon or ebay. It was only capable of collecting miniscule metal dust particles, not shavings.


Uncrating
This was not my first bike, so I knew what was waiting for me.
And while in the past I've uncrated many bikes alone, this time I needed some help.
It's been a while and I'd forgotten some of the lessons learned earlier.

The unpacking and installing took about 8 hours, because I spent a good hour and a half taking the crate apart and using it and the cardboard to make some sort of sun shield from it.
Florida sun is brutal!

What took so long is that I had gone back and forth a few times, preparing something, only to find out that the items I had ordered, weren't the right size. That probably took me 1 to 1.5 hours total.
Things like:
The sprocket size. The one I've ordered was a 17T 17mm sprocket, but this one uses a 20mm one.
The Spark Plugs. The iridium spark plug I ordered didn't fit.
Neither did the drain bolt plug. The drain bolt plug was an M17 bolt, with a 12mm stud or so. The one I had ordered was an M15 or so, with a 14mm stud.

I also had difficulties with no user manual, or even the video link being kind of useless (2 guys working fast, but you can't see what they are doing).

Procedures/installing

after removing the plastic, cardboard and plastic wraps, I started with removing the top part of the crate. Don't even bother disassembling, just loosen the bottom bolts of the crate, the metal wires, and the top part comes right off (with the side supports).
Next up, the front wheel, lifted up the bike using a hand crank car jack (the $20 ones from AutoZone), under the steering column. The crate has a support beam right there. That allowed me to lift up the front enough to remove the bolt.

I basically spray painted all metal parts that could corrode, with engine enamel (the high temp one, clear coat); including any nuts or bolts that have received some damage from tightening or loosening them.
I also sprayed the wheel bolts, and inserted them when they were still wet, this mainly to prevent corrosion.
In the past I would use lithium grease, but I have found that coating them with enamel or paint, was a much better choice, as when the liquid dries up, it basically seals the bolt in place..

Later I made a mistake on the speedo cable (didn't see the cable was outside of the forks instead of inside), and I tried removing the bolt, and man, the enamel not only prevents rust, and coats metal, but the bolts were almost glued inside! They're not coming out without a hammer!

I noticed the rear wheel was very well set up from the factory. The chain had the right amount of slack, and bolts on the bike all were torqued well, and/or used some sort of sealing agent like Loctite.
So, the rear wheel needed no attention installing.

After installing the front wheel, I installed the front fender. The thin metal support bracket in the parts box, is for the speedo-sensor, the thick bracket is for the front brake line. Both of them face upwards, and mount to the fender.

Third, I installed the handlebars. A bit of a pain, because first you best install the left handle (lights/choke) and clutch. The choke plastic was separated from the rest, but was easy to fit back in the housing.
The clutch and left brakes can not be lowered(rotated away from you on the handlebars) by a lot. Make sure you check your clearance on the handlebars, if the levers aren't touching anything, or if they can be pressed all the way. If you want your levers to be facing down instead of forward, they won't be able to compress fully.

Once the handlebars are ready and installed (my risers were the wrong size), you can go over to the rear shock.
I lowered the bike onto the front wheel, needed help to balance the bike, and used my car jack on top of the rear tire, and used a piece of cardboard between the jack and the rear fender. The jack was pushing the rear part up from the rear wheel, and the installation of the rear shock was a breeze.
Once this was done the bike could be taken off the crate, and rest on the side stand peg.

While I did spray also the rear shock mounts and other bare metal with enamel (clear coat) or plastidip (the pieces I wanted to blacken out), I also did apply Loctite to all bolts after installation.
In other words, once the bike was assembled, with bolts and nuts not very tight, I took each piece off, and applied the blue Loctite to the nuts and bolts.
This took an additional hour, but I wanted things to be good from the start.
I used blue Loctite on all except those that I will work on later (like the sprockets, the rear fender covering the chain) and the handlebars (for installation of risers).

Next up was the exhaust. The ugly looking exhaust can actually sounded ok, but I found a few ways to optimize the sound!
Unscrew the 3 bolts at the end, and coat the inside with enamel or high temp paint. Superficial rust was already forming there.
Then, stuff some glasswool or rockwool inside the thing.
I cut out a 5x7x0.75" piece of glasswool (wear at least plastic or rubber gloves), rolled it up, and stuffed it in the exhaust, and pushed it outward against the circular muffler wall. I then added small strips to fill up the walls, allowing approximately a 1 to 2" space for the exhaust to go straight from the entry pipe to the exit.
The sound now sounds so good and deep, and no bright tones anymore!
It sounds better than most aftermarket exhausts now, comparable to $600 exhausts!

After spray coating and installation of the glass wool, I back coated the lid (on the inside with enamel), and closed the can using Loctite on the 3 screws.
I had seen enough videos on people losing their exhaust cover, so I put Loctite on the only bolt holding it, as well as added an extra drop to the outside after it was installed, to make sure it was and woudl stay tight!

After exhaust, I did the battery.
I did find I had to use some shrink wrap on some of the connectors they used, as well as use electrical (or duct) tape to tape off the fuse box and cables.
Even the inside of the bike, the plastics under the seat, got a coating of enamel.

I then tested the lights, and electronics. All worked, except for the brake light was either on or off.
The brake lever ended up being stuck a bit, but after some use, that went away, and it ended up working fine.

Before adding fuel, I used a vacuum to make sure no metal shavings were in the tank, but thankfully there were none.

I wanted to start the bike, but it didn't start. The switch was in the 'on' position, so "The petcock", I thought.
As soon as I opened the valve, fuel came leaking down the bike.
Apparently, the 4mm fuel line wasn't mounted to the 6mm petcock nozzle.
I nearly broke the petcock, just trying to get the fuel line to fit, until I came to my senses, and sprayed a tiny bit of dish soap with water inside the hose. Like less than 1 spray. It didn't seem to be an issue for the bike once I started it.
I did also stretch the hose, and the hose finally fit.

The bike started, but the idle was too low (at 500-800RPM).
Luckily, I had bought a Torx bit set a few weeks before, and the T30 did the trick in adjusting the idle screw, which was on the right, as opposed to all the other bikes I had owned.
Be advised, this Torx bolt has a pin in the center, so you'll need a Torx (star) bit with a hole in the center to make it work.
After about 1 full turn right, the bike idled fine cold at 1200RPM.
The manual says 1500RPM, but the manual is wrong often.
Set it to the lowest RPM where the bike can idle without stalling, cold.
Once the bike warms up, idle goes up as well.

Next came the tires.
They were a bit deflated, but I was surprised they did not show the maximum PSI rating on the sidewall.
Because of that I put 32PSI in the front and 35PSI in the rear (cold).
Not sure what the user manual says, but it should be ok, as they will settle, and PSI will drop from new.

Be advised that the bike may end up falling over when on the side stand, if the tires are deflated too much.

The PDI people apparently didn't see they had put the valve stem of the front wheel towards the disc brake, making it very difficult to add air >:( .

After that I installed the rear fender, and drove around the parking lot.
Shifted from 1 to 5th gear, reaching 15MPH in 5th :wtf:
Unlike what most people say, you CAN drive on the oil provided.
Heck, in the past I've put vegetable oil in the crank case, without any side effects (though it was only for 30 miles until I could change out the oil).

After my 30-60 second test drive, I drained the factory oil.
Looked much like the cheapest oil on Amazon (Pennzoil), which I also happened to have in my home.
The user manual doesn't call for motorcycle oil, just "engine oil" of 10W40 thickness; and since this is the break-in period, I just poured in the Pennzoil. Even though I do have 10W40 motorcycle oil. My guess is I will be replacing the oil soon anyway.
The bike took 1QT to 1.25QT of oil.

Other findings

I set the rear suspension all the way down, because I felt like the handlebars were too far down for me.
Some other youtuber correctly stated, that he felt as if the rear was pushing him over the bike, and I felt the same.
Lowering the rear shock helped a lot.
I'm in the process of buying matching handlebar risers, but the shock adjustment did help in making me sit more upright.

The front brake discs are so fragile! I poked in them with the bit of plastic that was meant to keep them apart, just to get them apart further, and saw some brake pad dust coming off of them. Like they're made out of carbon or charcoal.

I forgot to lubricate the metal spacer on the front wheel. Will do so with lithium grease soon.

The 428 chain looked sturdy enough, didn't need replacement. It was coated with a honey-like sticky substance. I suppose it's some sort of silicon lube?

My next upgrade will be a 17T, and see how much space I have for an 18T up front. I doubt the 19T would fit, but if it would, I will get it.

The chain glider is really tensioning up the chain if you're not on the bike. Bike really needs a larger front sprocket.

The rear sprocket is a 34T, and can come down to a 31, or perhaps even a 30T. I will be upgrading that one as well. My aim is to drive affordably, with high MPG, and low revs. 150cc is sufficient with 5 gears.

I prefer to have a 3rd or 4th gear that gets me up to max speed (60-70MPH), and a 4th or 5th gear that can make me cruise at low RPM, high MPG, over having no overdrive gears.

First gear is kind of torquey. I'm fairly sure I can take 30% higher gearing on this bike, and still be ok with the acceleration.

I was able to accelerate from a stop, from 3rd gear.

The bike does not have any storage whatsoever. No space for tools.

This bike didn't have a center stand, but did have a kick starter.

I will want to find a good seat cover, or something that doesn't burn my butt. Just touching the seat while in the sun, almost burned my hands. Perhaps some sort of UV coating I can used to extend its life?

This engine is a high rev engine. It's not very well tuned in the lower RPM ranges.
Meaning, the engine doesn't have a lot of torque down low, but keeps the torque it has through the rev range (I only went up to 5k RPM).
If it wasn't for the low gearing, the bike would have very little torque in the mid range (2-5k RPM).

On the Walmart store, the bike is promoted as the X-Pro 150. On the title of sale, it's called the 'Vader 150'. On the company website, the bike is called the Lifan 150. I thought people said Lifan is a different engine than Vader has?

The exhaust is mounted on the side, doesn't interfere with the drain bolt.

I think a lot of the problems with the 125 are fixed on the 150.
Now all I need to do, is probably ride my first 4k miles, before bolts of all sizes will start falling off...

[TominMO]

Well that was thorough! :tup: Welcome

[ProDigit]

Thanks.
Upon review, I probably could have installed the rear shock before the front tire, I could have done the whole unboxing by myself.
Doing the front tire first was my mistake.

[delzy]

I've got one of these on order from alibaba: Zs172fmm-6 Zongshen Motorcycle 4-Stroke Air Cooling Cdi 250cc Engine CB250r with 5-Gearshift - China Motorcycle Engines and 250cc Engine . (https://gzbawo.en.made-in-china.com/product/qQxYfWKDYCci/China-Zs172fmm-6-Zongshen-Motorcycle-4-Stroke-Air-Cooling-Cdi-250cc-Engine-CB250r-with-5-Gearshift.html)


I looked at building up my condor 150 and then realized this was the most bang for the buck. A 22hp Baseline.



Here is my build: https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=33747


Keep us updated!

[ProDigit]

Nice!
I bought the 150, because a 125 with 4 gears was probably going to be too slow (acceleration between 35-55mph), while at the same time, with the right gearing should get better mpg than a 250.

I'm putting in some TB zinc plus break-in oil soon, and do a sprocket swap.
I also bought a backseat bag, and pre-ordered a 30T rear sprocket, to get the revs down to as low as possible.

Depending on the outcome, I may want to change that setup.
Other than that, I bought a phone mount, and will be looking for more upright handlebars. I would probably like the handles to be about half a foot closer to one another, and about the same upwards to my face, for an upright seated position.

[ProDigit]

Maiden Voyage, first ride impressions:

Ok,
I had my first 20 mile maiden voyage today, and it left me a bit disappointed.

While I certainly appreciate the slightly larger body, which fit my 6'4" tall body just fine, it comes with the downside of weight. The bike weighs about 25+LBS more than the smaller body 125cc versions.

About the engine,
I always heard Lifan engines were good, but this one isn't really.
It's got good torque down low, but falls on it's face past 5k RPM. Past that, I expected the power to keep coming, but no. It's just flat...
I'm fairly sure the EGR has something to do with it, but
Riding past 5k RPM in a gear, is like shifting to a higher gear. The acceleration nearly stalls. It's pretty unusual for a 150CC not to be able to reach 65MPH, let alone 55MPH.
The TaoTao Evo 150 had a much better engine in that aspect. Much smoother, and more power.

Risers, install fail:
Anyway, today I tried installing the handlebar risers, but the riser pieces didn't fit the design; even though they were made for a similar sized handlebars for the CB300F, and other Honda bikes.

Gearing: Install success:

The gearing stock makes this bike totally useless, unless you plan on going 25-30MPH.
I've read comments of people saying their bike engines seized from hitting the redline for too long.

I always felt like, if the average forum hooligan recommends a 17T, because the 15T is too small for them, and finds the 17t mod acceptable, then I know it'll still be too little for me.

On a positive note, the 18T sprocket did fit perfectly, up from 15T, however, the cover couldn't close anymore.
Somewhere on the top left on the sprocket cover, the cover touches what I presume is the starter motor. Not the motor itself, but an extension on the engine that mounts the motor (I believe), so I couldn't grind or unmount that.
So all I had to do, is grind off maybe a few grams of metal (roughly 0.5cm, or 1/4" on the top left of the cover), then coat it, and install the sprocket cover.
Bike runs just fine with the 18T.

A 19T is available, but I presume it would take considerable amount of modding.


Acceleration went down significantly in 1st gear, however, 1st and all other gears also last a lot longer. I'd say the bike accelerates about as fast as most cars accelerating a bit faster than normal.


Even after the 18T mod, I really feel this is a 3 gear bike instead of a 5 gear.
I quite literally shift from 1st into 3rd at around 5k RPM, and do the same to 5th around 5k RPM, and am wanting for 2 more gears to at least hit 45MPH.

The bike with the 18T, still manages to run at around 6k RPM at 45MPH, which is plain dumb, and a waste of energy if you want to use it for cruising comfortably.
That engine should be running at no higher than 5k RPM cruising.

I've ordered a 30T rear sprocket, that will hopefully lower the 6k RPM at 45MPH to 5.25k RPM. That's really the best I can do.

Exhaust

My second finding was that the fiberglass I put in the exhaust can, was being blown towards the exhaust tip muffler/filter material, and kind of blocking the flow.
So I installed a baffle tube, with fiberglass surrounds, and restructured the remaining fiberglass in the muffler.
Not sure if that did anything, but I was able to hit 60MPH on the indicator (GPS confirmed 56MPH). That's a 7% underread, nearing 10% when the tire thread is gone.
Sound wise, I found that below about 5k RPM the bike sounded great, but past 5k RPM it became too loud and droning for me.
With the baffle, and fiberglass padding, it sounds a bit quieter. Especially at lower RPM ranges, but at 5+k RPM at open throttle it still sounded too loud for my liking.

EGR delete, maybe, maybe not...

While an EGR delete is a good mod, I don't look forward to peeling all the plastics off the bike. Unlike the GROM, this one doesn't have matching plastics. It just looks like a grom, but the fairings are different, with different mounting points. I can see a lot of the plastic pieces breaking off, bolts or screws shearing off...
The carburetor doesn't seem to be the type that one can rejet (I may be wrong about this).

I just don't like taking the bike apart, unless something really breaks, and needs fixing.

Rejetting

I'm fairly sure the bike needs a rejet. Though the idle smells a bit rich, and at 5+k RPM it may be running a bit lean, sensing from some backfire pops, and the choke (opening the choke just 20% I get the impression the acceleration is slightly better, but opening the choke at 100%, acceleration plummets).

Also, quick throttle blips from idle can sometimes stall the bike, another possible indicator on rich idle jets.

The idle screw helped raise the idle RPM to 1200, however when the engine is running hot, idle may be around 2k RPM for a few moments, until it cools down a bit.


Some PDI fails:

The handlebars weren't properly tightened. I felt like they were tilted to the left, and I could easily bend them back to the center from the front wheel.
I found only one suspension bolt was tight. The other was locktightened, but I could still tighten for about 1 to 1.5 full turns.



Conclusion:

Overall, I'd say this bike isn't really ready for primetime.
From the vibrations to the acceleration curve (lots of torque, but no HP)....
The bike does seem to accelerate past the 8.5k RPM redline, though it's not very pleasant, as any vibrations past 7.5k RPM are quite a bit more than at 5k RPM.

I'm waiting on the 30T sprocket to see if it makes any difference in the way the bike handles.
I'd say this bike is nice to mod, slightly better than the 125 vader.

[ProDigit]

First 55 mile review.

This week I've taken the bike to work twice.
Though technically speaking I'm still in the break in period, I must say some of my opinions have changed about it.

What I totally disliked was the bike's engine braking power.
I guess it made me uncomfortable, when letting go of the throttle, and have the front dive in so much, plus those tiny tires feel more wobbly than all my other bikes.
But that has decreased, partly due to the larger 18T front sprocket (vs 15t stock), but certainly also because the engine parts are wearing in.

Over the course of the last 20 miles, engine vibrations have decreased a lot, like 20% if I have to put a number on it. The bike now also easier goes past 5k RPM, all the way to 6-7k RPM without losing too much acceleration.
On my last trip back home (45-55 miles on the ODO), I've even taken it out to 7.5k RPM with the new sprocket (65MPH indicated, 61MPH GPS verified).

It looks like this bike may have had the engine that needed a break-in procedure the most out of all my Chinese and Non-Chinese bikes I've ever owned.

At 55 miles, I did my first oil change (after dumping the shipping oil before), and added the Lucas TB Zinc Plus additive to the oil. It appears that the bike takes roughly 1.25 to 1.5qt of engine oil.
I added slightly more than 1.1QT (thinking I needed only 1QT), but the dip stick showed medium level.

So I took 5W30 oil, and poured in about 0.2-0.3 QT, and mixed it with the 10-W40 oil.
Experience with other Chinese bikes has shown me that they do prefer half and half of each (~ 7.5W35), as the engines run a lot smoother than with either 5W30 or 10W40.
Aside from engine vibrations, also MPG and top speed is also affected for the better (my 127cc Roketa bike could do 63-65MPH on the flats, which is about how fast this 150cc currently is) with the lower viscosity oil.

Research has also shown, that lower viscosity oil, doesn't necessarily deteriorate faster because of heat.
Even though lower viscosity oil can handle less heat, it's also more liquid, and thus cools off faster.
However, wet clutches may not like lower viscosity oil, and may start slipping.
Again, we'll see in the next few days if this will become an issue.
I haven't used (and probably won't use) any semi synthetic 0W oil for now.

At 55 miles, I have used 2 lines out of 6 of fuel. Not sure if they are linear, but if they are, it could mean that I could get about 165 miles out of ~1.6Gal (=100MPG), but I doubt it. I think this engine is running closer to 80MPG.
Ideally I will want to see 110MPG out of this bike with my new rear sprocket, though we will see the values as they come in...


I still smell some burning chemicals (plastics?), when the engine gets hot.
It used to be when I just fired up the engine, but now you can mostly only smell it after a +45-50MPH ride, and waiting at a stoplight or so.
This could be some of the engine enamel, used to coat the bike that either found its way on the cylinder heat fins, or exhaust, and is burning off...

The bike cold, currently idles at around 1200RPM, but only when the temps are above ~70F.
At 65, it still stalls cold. But after warming up it will idle at 1200RPM.
When hot, especially after a small high-speed race, the engine idles closer to 1900RPM.
It'll take about a minute for it to drop to ~1750 RPM...

I find the handlebars too low and too wide (about 1 to 2" too wide on each side). I feel like an ape pulling on a bar.
I will try to find some aftermarket bars, that will be closer to my face, for a more upright position.

The seat, though comfortable, also starts making my butt numb, and that after only half an hour.
It probably has to do with the lower driver position (compared to passenger seat height).
I was wondering if you think newer straighter saddles would be a plugin replace of older style grom bike saddles?

I also painted my chain with black plastidip. It won't do much to where the chain meets the sprockets, but certainly helps prevent rusting on the other exposed parts. It looks cool, and works.

[delzy]

The grom seats do not fit. The hook on the seat is a different height. It sounds like you need to come down on your slow jet and up on your primary. My condor has been tuned. I ride at 3500' elevation and I have the 108 and a 35 installed. I have deleted the airbox for a cone and replaced the factory exhaust with a KPM 200 straight pipe and slipon. It's a little loud, but I left in the baffle and spark arrester.


I agree this bike is slow with the factory setup, but you can do a big block kit or even transplant any CG250 into it. The fuel gage is not linear and I think you'll be lucky to get 80mpg. I think these condor handlebars mimic the KLX110 bars more than the grom. I think they are good, but probably not strong enough in a wreck.


BTW, I have flogged mine since new. No break in - many runs past 8500 in the first 100 miles, but 2 oil changes in the first 100 miles. There was some bits in the first change, but not in the second. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm acquiring the parts for a 23HP 4-valve engine transplant with 520-30 rear and the factory 520-13 on the front for a while.

[ProDigit]

MPG readout, and a few mods

The first 100 miles are already on the bike, with the 18T front sprocket and 1.4 gal of fuel, I'm seeing 71MPG.
It's well below my desired values, and with a 30T rear sprocket that value should increase to roughly 80 MPG, which is still far below the 100MPG I had expected for a 150cc bike like this.
If in the near future, I can upgrade the 18T front to a 19T front, and the 30T rear with a 29T rear sprocket, I can increase mpg further to an estimated ~90MPG.

Some contributing factors to low MPG are the following (also some factors that will result in better MPG):
- The engine still is in the break-in period, and uses a bit more fuel than when it's fully broken in. This due to metal flakes in the oil, and parts seating and finding their place.

+ After break-in the bike should get slightly better fuel economy.

- I also see myself riding the bike at higher speeds in the near future, which would certainly also lower MPG.

- The engine now has high zinc oil in it, which also lowers MPG

+ In the near future I will use lower zinc oils which increase MPG, and may experiment with lighter weight oils, to see if I can get even better MPG that way.
Though I will base my oil on the engine response to the type of oil I pour in, meaning based on the vibrations I feel from the bike, not on what gets me best MPG.
Lower vibrations usually mean a better suited oil weight for the engine.
Normally, engines running at 6 to 9k RPM are better off with lighter weight oils.
Knowing that the bike may have a wet clutch that needs motorcycle oil (though the manual says to just use 10W40 motor oil, not motorcycle oil), I will probably use lighter weight oils further in the future; as to not screw up the clutch.

+ I'm contemplating on running a 19T sprocket up front, and just run it without sprocket cover, as I'm not keen on mutilating the cover, just to fit the 19T. Without cover, perhaps even a 20T front sprocket may fit, who knows? If it could fit, I will definitely want to try; though the 20T costs twice the price of a 19T.

+ The 30T rear sprocket is still on the way. Once it does, I can better see if a 29T may fit or not...

+ Other than that, I've been thinking about modifying the intake on the bike. From what I read, the OEM airbox is a restriction, and I've been contemplating on putting a cold air intake with pod filter inside the airbox, and drilling out the airbox for more airflow.
The cold air intake (preferably a solid aluminum tube) should increase performance at higher RPMs. The airbox should lower some of the air intake noise, and help with better filtration and protection, though, maybe I'll just install a pod filter on the cold air intake, and throw away the airbox. It's a Chinese bike after all, not a $20k Harley.

The bike should run a bit leaner, which would probably be ok as the bike currently idles rich, and certainly doesn't run lean at full throttle yet.
It should also give the bike a bit more top speed, as I really feel that something is starving that bike past 5-6k RPM, and want to see if changing the air intake will do it.

Not sure if anyone can verify if this product will fit?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VYZC26D/
https://i.ibb.co/swVVYFr/1.jpg


Viiiibrrrrations

In the last few tens of miles, the engine vibrations at higher speeds (higher than 7k RPM) have somewhat lowered; meaning less vibration.
Still, the vibrations are so strong that I can feel the body plastics could be vibrating themselves to pieces in the near future, if the engine isn't going to smooth out a bit more...


Turn radius
One other thing I dislike about the Condor/Vader/Lifan/X-Pro 150, is that it's turn radius is ridiculously large. It's hard to move around in small spaces.
I've been contemplating on grinding down half of the stops on the fork, that prevent the handlebars from going further.
The steering is just fine for riding, but not good for when trying to push the bike around tight spaces, without going back and forth a few times.

[delzy]

GY6 is a scooter power plant, but I, too am interested in this piece because there may be carb clearance issues on my planned transplant. For $18 it would be worth a gamble and I'm sure it's easy returns.


If you lean the bike over in the direction you are trying to maneuver, the turning radius reduces and for the vibrations, the bike has no engine counter balance so you should expect that. THe good thing about the CG engine is the low end torque is really good if the carb is tuned right.

[ProDigit]

200 mile review.


Fuel Mileage:
I've taken the bike to and back from work the whole week, and I've just also done a ~36 mile fuel mileage ride. It was more like 38 miles, but 36 miles recorded with stride from fuel station to the same station again, as well as measured by the bike's trip odo.
Like most of my Chinese bikes, the ODO was spot on (within perhaps 0.1-0.3 miles difference from stride, or less than 1% off); despite the speedo to be off by about 7%.
I wanted to do a 100 mile ride, to get a more precise measure of odo and fuel consumption, however my butt and back didn't agree with my head there.
I had to return from my joy-ride earlier than expected.

I did measure by topping off the fuel to about 1/3rd of the fuel tank neck on the top. That is after shaking the bike a bit, because the fuel sinks about an entire fuel cap neck just by doing that.
Upon my return, I fueled up to halfway the neck, filling it up generously, a bit more than was before, just to be on the conservative side with the fuel.

My 36 mile trip mostly existed out of urban roads doing 30-45MPH (<5k RPM), some stop lights, all at ~4-8ft of elevation, with an occasional 50MPH (6k RPM).

The fuel used was 0.43 Gal, which amounts to 83.7 MPG (that is with the 18T sprocket, and driven mostly calm).
Taken into consideration that the actual mileage recorded was 36.7 (I live 0.7 miles from the station), and I fueled up more upon return than leaving, the actual MPG value will be closer to 85MPG.

In my day to day use however, this will drop below 80, as much of my way to work will be at 50-60MPH, not 30-45.

Turn radius
During the trip I've noticed the bike's turn radius was so bad, it took 2 entire smaller street lanes to make a U-turn.

RPM findings
I also noticed that the bike bogs down a bit when starting from a stop, due to the higher gear ratio. Nothing major, just a small RPM range where the engine revs down, and the bike moves forward, where I need to feather the clutch a bit more. Once the bike starts moving past ~1.5-1.7k RPM, it all works fine. Could be due to the restrictive exhaust.
The bike doesn't like to be below 2k RPM in 1st gear, and below 3k RPM in 3rd, or 4th gear. From 3k RPM onwards it accelerates quite well.


A/F ratio impressions
The bike uses a bit of a rich pilot, probably so they could go lean on the main jet, and have the fuel cool down the bike during idle, as pitbikes and stunt bikes usually have few bursts of acceleration, combined with idle time.

Timing impression
During my ride, I was thinking how the bike is set up for stunt riding, pitbike riding, offroad riding. The advance on that enigne is quite retarded between 3-5k RPM, which is why it runs so well in that range, and why it has so low MPG numbers (any 150cc bike should be able to get 100-120MPG), even with better gears. It also has quite a low compression ratio, which means these engines could run quite hot without issue.
Which means, if I push the gears from a 15T/34T to a 19T/30T configuration, the engine should be able to push those gears quite easily at between 3-6k RPM.
The reason I want to do that, is because I want to turn it from a hooligan stunt bike, to an economical cruiser bike to take to and back from work everyday.

Exhaust
Once I remove the restrictive exhaust, backpressure will drop. This will cause lower torque in the ~3-6k RPM range, but should significantly improve the engine's idle to 3k RPM idling capabilities. Even should be possible to run a much lower idle (closer to 1200RPM).

But with the stock exhaust, I think I'll increase the idle from 1500-1750RPM to 1750-2k RPM. It should help with starting from a stop with those taller gears.

Once the exhaust is replaced by a non-restrictive one, the pilot jet will probably be at the perfect mixture, however, the main jet will be too small.
Due to regulations, they have locked their carbs, so you can't open them to swap or modify the jets :/....
I'd still want to try though...

Seat
The bike's seat is comfortable enough as a daily driver doing 10-15 mile (20 min) trips, however the rear passenger seat hump is pressing on my tailbone, and killing my butt and back for longer trips.
I can't really sit on the passenger seat, because I have a saddleback (storage bag) on there.
This was another one of my pet peeves, that the bike has no storage space at all; despite the company having so much space between the engine and the fairings; they neglected to make this bike also practical.
I'm looking for some seat covers, perhaps get some foam or gel pads, and staple a leatherette seat cover over them to the seat. Shouldn't be too hard to modify the seat, all I need is some good material that can withstand sun and rain.

Chain/chain sliders
I had to adjust my chain after 100 miles. I knew this was going to happen. The chain sliders really need to be replaced. You can adjust the chain tension, with the rear wheel bolt still properly torqued.
Still they are practical.
As soon as the smaller rear sprocket arrives, I'll also install the 19T, with the new sprocket cover (hopefully on Tuesday) that I'll have to grind down to fit the sprocket and chain in there.
Then I can double nut the chain adjuster bolts, because a single bolt is just going to rattle off.
I did use paint, to keep em in place, as locktite is usually a more permanent solution, even the blue one.

Comparison
This bike cost me $1400 shipping included, which was only a bit more than my $875 Roketa MC 05 127 bike with $250-350 shipping (I forgot), but it also is significantly more of a bike than the roketa.
The roketa was good, but it suffered from a bad transmission. The step through gearing really suck, are unsafe, and I don't know why they wanted to push them on beginner riders?
Aside from that, the gearbox often slipped at higher speeds. Granted, I was using semi-synthetic oil in the bike. Still, they should make the bikes compatible with regular motor (car engine) oil.

[ProDigit]

19T sprocket install, "success"

So I managed to fit the 19T sprocket on the bike.
Before I expand on that, please know that your top speed lowers both in 4th and 5th gear by approx 5MPH. So it's possibly the worst gearing you can get for top speed, if you keep exhaust and intake and jettings stock.

If you plan on making your 150 clone more "cruise/travel"-friendly, this 19T is the first sprocket that makes a world of difference in terms of rideability, and feels more like the gears in your average economy vehicle or car.

Installation

The 18T sprocket with chain apparently had scraped the sprocket cover, and marked where the chain touches the cover. It's really only a small slot of about 2-3 inches wide, and about 7mm high, you need to grid off the sprocket cover, because the 19T sprocket is a bit towards the front of the cover.
On the inside of the front side of the cover (inside of the side facing the front wheel when installed), there are the 2 bolt holes, and another 2 structural lines, to reinforce the cover. These lines will be your mark lines. You grind the cover between those 2 lines, about 7mm deep, and remove the piece. It's an aluminum cover, so it should cut/saw/grind quite easily.

The stock chain with 19T will stick out of the sprocket cover only in the front. No other grinding is necessary. Unlike the 18T, where you need to grind a tiny piece on the top of the cover, on this 19T you only need to grind off the front. So if you have a 15, 16 or 17T front, and want to go to a 19T, only front side grinding is necessary.
You'll need an angle grinder (on special in harbor freight for $10), and maybe a file, to file off sharp edges. It's about a 15 minute job.


I kept the original chain, as after 200 miles, it had lengthened enough for me to install the 19T with the rear wheel all the way forward.
If you are using double nuts on your chain adjusters, you can't do that here. So, you'll need some blue Loctite on them to keep these remaining nutz in place.

The chain does rub on a metal extension on the engine block. It's nothing bad, no leaks can come from it, just a small ridge, that the chain can slowly grind down on it's own.
What I did, was I upped the idle to 2k RPM, lifted the bike's rear, and started her up, with the rear wheel spinning in 5th gear. It took about 5 minutes of idling and occasional gentle revving, for the grinding noise to go away. I then sprayed some Plastidip on the inside of the chain, to lubricate and protect the area that the chain was eating out.

I would say, the installation is mechanically speaking, fairly easy to do, without any major headaches.

Impressions 19T

I took it for a spin, and man, it feels like a normal bike now!
The gears are a lot taller. The bike usually stays within 6.5k RPM, so no more crazy vibrations.
My top speed did drop from 60MPH to about 55. I can still reach 60 in 4th but that's with the bike screaming at 8-8.5k RPM.
In 5th, the bike seems to find equilibrium at 55MPH on a flat surface.
This is probably the worst gearing if you keep the bike's intake or exhaust stock, but may be the best gearing after an intake, carburetor, and exhaust change.
I'm estimating that the bike will make more power and can push itself past 70MPH indicated (65 GPS), with an intake and exhaust tune, but we'll see.

Increasing the idle from 1500RPM (1750RPM max when hot), to 1750RPM (2k max when hot), has actually gotten rid of the low RPM bogging I got from starting from a stop in 1st gear.
No more do I need to feather the clutch as much, but can just go, even with the 19T front sprocket on.

My new setting has me riding ~45MPH at 5k RPM, and ~55MPH at 6k RPM.
The bike usually likes to hover between 55-60MPH (6-6.5k RPM) traveling alone vs tucked, or alone vs in traffic with a vehicle cutting the wind in front of me.

Future upgrades:

My next project will be installing the PZ27 carburetor with adjusted jets.
If I can't fix the top end, I'll install also an exhaust system, and pod air filter with potentially an air intake pipe.
If that doesn't increase HP, I'll have to go for a 26mm nibbi carburetor, which is slightly bigger than the PZ27, but should get more top speed out of the engine (but also is harder to idle).

Additionally, I'm still waiting for the arrival of the 30T rear sprocket, which I will install once the carburetor and air intake/exhaust is fixed, and I'll be able to install my new chain.

I've left the idea of the 20T front sprocket mod, as the 19T sprocket is already 1 size larger than the largest size that should have fitted, but with some mods, it may possibly already be too large; or, it may just be the maximum size that fits the condor. Either way, a 20T won't fit, unless you plan on grinding in the engine block and re-route the transmission wires that already have no play.

[delzy]

YOu should do your exhaust and carb at the same time. I'm thinking you need a smaller slow jet to get low end power. These motors have a lot of power at the low end. You must be running rich at the bottom. It could be lean as well.


Every time you change the air flow it impacts the fuel requirement. By the end of it, you will be a carb guru if you keep tuning it at each step. Also, make sure the boot at the throttle cable input at the top of the carb isn't leaking air. This will impact your idle if its leaking.

[ProDigit]

Carb adjust

I now remember why I told myself I'd never buy a Chinese bike again.
Somehow, I believe the Chinese have spent billions in research, on how to discourage people to rejet the carb.
The whole process is nearly an impossible task, from tools to space issue to taking all tuning away from the bike. IMHO it's the bike's first real flaw. A carburetor should be easily accessible, and adjustable.
This was anything but.

By default, my idle jet was rich. At around 25-75% throttle, it was lean, and very lean at higher RPMs, resulting in lack of power and top speed.
But overall the jets were set up pretty well, had I lived in a colder area, at higher elevation.

So I decided to take out the stock carb, and rejet it.
Little did I know I'd be spending nearly 12 hours on that job.
First to get the carb out, without trying to remove the plastics, was possible, but damn difficult! From issues like 'no space to maneuver', to no space to take the bolts off, to needing a long wrench, to needing a very short wrench...

I had to cut the hose clamp on the airbox, to get it off.

I had seen a video where a guy used a dremel to create a slit in the bottom bolts on the bowl, to get them off with a flathead screwdriver, however, my bike is 2 years newer, and the chinese had devised more trickery to make this job impossible.

First, they lowered the screws, so you'd have to significantly damage the bowl.
Second, they added hard steel inside the copper screws, not even my hard steel dremel could get through it.

Third, they added some plasticky goop in the idle mixture screw, that's not easy to drill or pry out.

So rejetting the stock carb wasn't going to be possible.

On a positive note, I did end up buying a PZ27 carburetor, and was able to transfer the a/f screw to the oem carburetor.

Why did I do this?
Because getting that carburetor to get in and out of the bike was a bitch.
I had to remove the left and right fairings to get some chance of success.

And the fairings is one reason I never wanted to have another chinese bike.
It's a 99% guarantee, either something will break, you'll lose some clips, or are left with a bolt or two...

Anyway, I put the stock carb back in, but not after removing the choke valve.
I only did that, because in my opinion it restricted airflow.

I used the OEM carburetor because I wasn't going to do another carburetor adjustment, the plastics wouldn't survive that, and I just don't have the time for it.

After reinstalling, I could play with the AF screw, and had to either go with the stock setting (AF screw all the way in), idle rich, top end lean,
Or, run it very rich at idle (bogging), and stoic at top end.
Running rich at idle isn't too bad, it'll help cool down the engine at a light.
And since I'm not using the bike as a hooligan bike, quick starting from a stop wasn't my main goal.
But making the bike a hoot to drive between 3-7k RPM was really my main accomplishment today!

I did make the mistake of adding 2 washers on the jet needle. I should have gone with one. This is probably why it bogs a bit.
To compensate for an overly rich idle (without the ability to adjust the jet), I increased the idle RPM, and set the AF to a happy medium (where the RPM dropped from 2K RPM at AF closed, to ~1500RPM with AF about 1 1/4 turn out.
This is against carb tuning guidelines, but the only way for me to get the bike to run well everywhere except for at starting. Idle still runs ok, but the first few percent sometimes bogs the bike to a stall. The hotter the bike is, the less the issue happens, it seems.

Once the bike does 2-3k RPM it pulls like a horse!
It pulls free to 7k RPM (with the OEM PZ carburetor), without me feeling like it's losing power!
Not sure if that's because of removing the choke valve (In Florida I won't need it, and the bike runs very rich anyway), or if it was because of raising the jet needle by approx. 2mm.
The good thing is, that the jet needle is accessible (somewhat), and I could in the future, just remove one of the washers, to lower the needle a bit more.

Also, as a result of not running as lean anymore, the exhaust is much quieter.
No longer that non-stop hollow droning during the rev range.

I did not have the impression that the airbox in some way was restrictive. The air intake is about as wide as 4 of my fingers.

The exhaust may be though....

Since I can't adjust the jets on current carb, I will try to do a top speed run with stock exhaust, then use an after market exhaust, and then do an AF adjustment with the new pipe.

If the new pipe will make my bike run even more rich at idle, and bogs it down or causes hard idling (even with AF screw fully in), I will keep running the stock exhaust instead.
If idle is the same or better with the new pipe, I will adjust AF screw to get better top end.

I wasn't able to do a top speed run yet, but will do so one of these days.

If I had to give this job a rating from 1 to 10 in difficulty, I'd say this is an 8.
Not as difficult as replacing camshafts, or swapping out engine bearings.
But certainly not a job for the average joe. And not because a carburetor is difficult, but because the bike was engineered to never take the carburetor out at all! There's no space, no ease of access, to get that thing in or out of the bike.

[ProDigit]

Bike ran great cold, but was stuttering when warmed up.
Turns out it was running too rich.
Especially ~5-25% of the throttle.

I can either take the side panels off again, and spend a day trying to adjust the carburetor, or adjust the needle height again; or leave it running rich (bogging), and just replace the exhaust with a free flow one, and hope the rich fuel mixture will be more stoic.

I did do a test with the AF screw to 1 1/2 turn, lowered my top speed to 55mph, or turn it to the off position, have a louder exhaust, but top speed went back up to ~60MPH (GPS).

The pilot jet always was rich.
The jet needle is raised by ~3mm causing an excessive rich condition at ~5-25% of the throttle.
25-75% of the throttle runs fine, nothing unusual noticed. May run rich, or lean, no idea. 75-100% of the throttle seems to have lost speed when running richer, which means top end is now also rich.

I always presumed it would be running lean, because that's what my previous bikes from China always did; but I was wrong.

A two piece exhaust pipe from eBay has arrived, together with the cheapest muffler on Amazon, which I will modify by pushing a baffle in it for testing.

More updates this weekend hopefully.

[ProDigit]

The end of a project.

Perhaps I was hoping to secretly find a way to get the 150cc to gain another 10MPH, for cheap; however, I've spent way too much time, effort, pain, and money on it already.

If you plan on doing what I did, save yourself the hassle, and do what everyone else did.

In this order to save yourself lots of hassle and pain:
1- Open the right-side fairing, to gain access to the carburetor and airbox. About 2 big Philips head bolts, 4 small ones, and 2 plastic ones in the front. The plastic ones, you have to twist 1/8th of a turn, then you can remove the center pin, and also the plastic rivet. It's not a screw, just a rivet held in place with a plastic rod that has a philips head.

2- Buy a POD filter (like $8), and replace the airbox with it.
I would only do this if you live in a fairly clean environment.
If you plan on doing trails and dirt roads, you may want to keep the stock airbox.

3- Without removing the carburetor, open the top part where the jet needle is. You'll need to find a thin washer to put under the needle. In order to do that, you'll have to unscrew the throttle, so you can have a bit more cable length.
A small <0.5mm washer under the jet needle clip, will be enough to adjust the Air/Fuel ratio, and gain a lot of acceleration past 5k RPM.

4- Close everything up again. Carburetor, side panels....

5- Take off the stock exhaust and paint it completely with Rustoleum (2000F) black paint.

Run your bike like this and be happy with the 60MPH you're getting.
It's not going to run much faster with another exhaust.

The washer underneath the jet needle clip will also make the exhaust less loud.

The exhaust isn't specifically restrictive, however it rusts quite quickly.
You can replace the exhaust when the stock exhaust is rusted through.

Aftermarket exhausts don't actually fit.
Even with 2 copper gaskets, you'll still get exhaust leaks, as the after market exhaust will touch part of the frame of the bike...
So if you're on the edge about a new exhaust, it's more problems than solutions.

If I had known this beforehand, I would have just done the air intake and raised the jet needle by a bit. That's it.
Doing an exhaust does allow you to lower idle RPM from 1500, to 1200. So that's something....

The Air/Fuel screw seems to do exactly the same as the idle screw. Inject more fuel.
I wouldn't mod the stock carburetor.
I just wished I could actually have an idle adjustment screw; as the idle rpm screw adds more fuel into the mixture. Good for top end, but bad for idling (as the bike already is running very rich at idle).

The side panels seem to be able to handle about 2x opening and closing them up. After that, many panels start to deteriorate, break, clips breaking etc....

The X-Pro Vader 150 has very weak passenger handles.
Lifting up the rear of the bike with one of these handles, will cause their mount points to bend.

This will be the last test to my bike, due to time and money constraints.
I hope this thread will have saved a future person from the mistakes I've made on mine.

Good luck, and keep riding!

[ProDigit]

I've finally reverted the OEM carburetor back to stock settings (just the choke valve (flap) removed), and put one washer under the jet needle, and the bike is running great.
It does have noticeable acceleration gain across the board compared to the stock settings.

Still a little lean on the top end, but kind of starts working better as the engine warms up. No bogging.

It does idle pretty high at 2k RPM idle from cold with the idle screw to the lowest setting, and indications of a lean running bike (when revving the bike, it lowers to 2k RPM quite slowly), despite the exhaust smelling still a bit rich.
Once the bike is warmed up, that problem disappears, and idle is closer to 1500RPM.
I would try a second washer under the jet needle clip maybe another time, as with the stock airbox removed (and using a pod filter) I only need to remove the 2x 10mm nuts, to lower the carburetor enough to access the jet needle. I can do this without removing any of the fairings now.
So changing out the jet needle settings should take less than 30 minutes.

I did install the performance exhaust with 2 copper gaskets:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/385603922733
Which apparently, I could order from Alibaba for half the price...
The pipe doesn't quite fit the bike, the bottom is touching the frame, causing the header to be in a slight angle, hence the 2 copper gaskets. I do hear the air coming out the header section when riding slow, but there's nothing I could do about that.

My recommendation, if you are going to use a POD filter, is not to cap off the crankcase vent hose.
I did cap it off, but drilled a small pilot hole in the tube, so gasses or pressure can exit the case, but hopefully oil will drip back into the crankcase.
I did cap off the fuel tank vent hose.
The ~10in aluminum pod filter pipe didn't fit the bike, so I screwed the pod straight on the carburetor.
If I found another pipe with vacuum line connection, I could add the fuel tank vent hose to that.


Top speed (with a little tailwind) in 5th gear was 68MPH indicated (this was with 1 washer under jet needle clip, tucked in, and the fastest recorded speed), though generally it'll top out around 63MPH in 4th gear (60MPH GPS verified) at 8-8.2k rpm without tail wind, or 55MPH GPS verified in 5th gear.
I use it more as a cruising gear than a gear to go fast with.

Around 8k RPM, the engine also is nearly vibrationless (balanced).

I also supplied the bike with 5W30 oil, after the top speed test.
This should mean the bike could run even faster with this type of oil.

The ~200 mile oil change had some minor metallic flakes, but nothing serious. The oil screen was clean.


My recommendation for new riders on the shipping oil, is to use it to start the bike, set the idle, let it reach up to temperature idling, lightly revving the engine (to like 4k RPM), to feel throttle response, and go for a few hundred feet of a ride and back at low RPM, to see if everything is working normally.

Then dump it, never use it for actual riding, and fill up with break-in oil (Lucas oil with zinc) added to standard 10W40 oil, for the first 50 miles.

Then use any regular 10W40 oil (you can add some of the zinc oil as well), for the next 150 miles.
After this, the engine is pretty much broken in, and you should use 10W40 motorcycle oil for the first 1000-3000 miles.
Don't follow my example on using 5W30. I only do it for testing purposes.

Other things I disliked:
The passenger handles are weak. I almost bent one from picking up the bike's tail by one handle. Always pick up the rear end using both handles; and even then, I feel the construction is too weak, and prone to breaking.

The Lifan 150 engine used is not a very efficient engine.
It barely ekes out at 60MPH, meanwhile Honda Grom 125cc engines, and the older Chinese 125cc pushrod engines top out at 65-70MPH; and the pushrod engines can actually get 120MPG easily (with the right gearing, and 100MPG when driven hard).

The lifan 150 makes most power at a high 7.5k RPM, which costs MPG and efficiency. It doesn't pull a 19T with the stock 34T rear sprocket at speeds over 6-6.5k RPM in 5th gear, but I can get the bike up to 8.5-9k RPM in 4th gear.
I will swap out my 34T rear sprocket with a 30T sprocket, which should give me higher top speed in 4th, and better cruising speed between 30-50MPH in 5th.

[ProDigit]

300 mile review.

After putting the 5W30 oil in it, I noticed my top speed was higher than before (I reached 68mph once, and 67mph another time today on that same stretch of road).

While during the break-in, I felt as if the bike only ran well up to 5k rpm and after that had a flat torque curve, lifting the jet needle with a washer, made my bike so much more responsive.
After 200-300 miles, it feels like the bike pulled better past 5k rpm, all the way to 6.5 and even 8k rpm.
The bike's vibrations have significantly reduced, and now I can actually see and feel where the fairings and pegs vibrate the most.
Below 5k rpm, vibrations are little, and generally following the following pattern:
2k-3k rpm: smooth
3-3.9k rpm: little rougher
4-5k rpm: smooth
5-6k rpm: vibey (with 5.5k rpm being the worst)
6-7k rpm: smooth
7-8k rpm, very vibey, mostly around 7.5k rpm.
8-8.25k rpm perfectly smooth.

With the lifted jet needle, the bike occasionally burps rich at 1-10% throttle, runs great between 10-50%, but beyond that, I hear the exhaust gets loud again, leading me to believe it's still running a little lean on the top end.

One of my next projects, now that I removed the airbox, and can access the carburetor easily, is to hacksaw open the OEM pz27, and measure the used jets, to install new ones in a new PZ27 I bought for like $20 on Amazon.

I'll then choose a smaller pilot jet -2 (if stock is 40, I'll try to install a 38), and increase the main jet +8 (if main is 100, I'll put a 108 for starters), which should be close to ideal jet sizes im expecting to install.

I'll also lower the jet needle back to it's stock settings.

I'm kind of interested to see what the new 19t sprocket with proper jetting will get in terms of fuel efficiency, as well to see if properly jetting the new carburetor will net better mpg values?

As is, I'm pretty content with the bike so far, but there's always room for improvement.

I also bought a seat cover, to protect the seat from rain and sun.
The cover helps distribute my weight on the seat better, which makes sitting on the bike for longer times much less painful.

[delzy]

If you ditch the stock airbox and just go with the pod, you can slip the carb out easily or even change the jets without removing the throttle cable. Of course, you need a carburetor with screws for the bowl.

[ProDigit]

300+ miles, and still hitting only 66mpg :/ .
I do run it hard, accelerating between 6 and 7k rpm.
Despite the 19t, it still has a decent amount of acceleration between 50 and 60mph.
I am still waiting on the 30t rear sprocket from rebel gears, which will lower rpm further.
Its unusual for it to take longer than 3 weeks to arrive...

I also purchased a drill kit for jets. If I want to, I could drill out the main jet a bit, if I don't have matching jets to replace it with. It should give me a bit of extra top end power, and allow me to keep the jet needle stock (not raised by a washer).

These are projects for this weekend (hopefully).

[ProDigit]

Today was carburetor day.
Spent a good few hours jetting the OEM carburetor.
After my diamond rotary grinding discs arrived, and I was able to take out 2 of the 3 screws on the OEM carburetor. The third one I needed to drill out, as it was literally chipping off from me trying to loosen it.
All copper bowl bolts were replaced by higher quality steel hex bolts (no more flathead or Philips screws).

The OEM carburetor came with the same jets as a stock PZ27 from amazon that I had purchased as a backup.
The jets are interchangeable. The OEM jets are silver, the Amazon P27 jets have a golden color.
The OEM jets weren't numbered, but I measured a 40 pilot, and a 95 main jet, which is quite low.

I live near ocean level, and needed a fair bit more on the main jet than 1 setting, so I skipped the jet size 100, and drilled it out to a 105 jet.

When installing the carburetor back in the bike, I removed the washer under the main jet, as it would sometimes make the bike burp off idle (rich condition).

After a test ride, I noticed overall it ran better than with the washer, but still ran too lean from about 50% to 100% throttle. Having this obnoxiously loud aftermarket exhaust, helps tell me when I'm running too lean.
The richer I run, the quieter the exhaust gets. And this time around, the bike made more noise at 50% and up of throttle.
I lost some top speed as well.

The next drill I had was for a 110 jet size, and I was afraid that that was going to be too much; and I was right.
While idle ran great cold, as soon as the bike 'warmed up' it started throttling, and lost top speed compared to the 105 jet.

I couldn't jet it smaller anymore (I mean, I could, by putting solder back in but wasn't going to keep myself busy with that). Instead I decided to just use one of the jets of the jet-kit that was between 105 and 110. The 108 jet.

The 108 jet also ran great cold.
But as soon as the bike warmed up, I noticed the bike was slightly rich at ~10-50%, but slightly lean at 75%, and leaner the more throttle I applied from there on.

I've heard someone say it, and it's true;
The bike's carburetor is kind of hard to set up right.

So I kept it at a 108 main jet, and a 40 pilot, without raising the needle.
It caused me to lose a bit of top speed compared to stock with raised needle, but it seemed to run smoother overall.

The 40 pilot seems to be running quite rich when cold, but turns a bit more stoic when hot. I wonder how that happens? :wtf:

Engine temperatures also decreased drastically. I remember doing top speed runs on the stock 95 main, and could feel the heat of that engine rise from under the tank.
Now it's running a bit too rich in the mid section, so I don't notice much in terms of engine heat radiating from under the bike.

I have to say, the bike has wonderful acceleration from a stop to about 50MPH; then creeps from 50 or 55 to 60 (indicated). My top speed does seem to be affected by the weather. Colder weather seems to slow the bike down a bit. This could be due to a new pod airfilter I'm using, that has a plastic tube longer than the other one. Should get better idle, but worse top speed. I might swap out the pod tomorrow, and see if it really affects top speed or not...

also, with the pod intake and aftermarket exhaust, the bike now idles fine around 1k RPM, vs 1.5k RPM with stock exhaust and air intake.


If you ever buy the Condor 150 or the X-Pro Vader 150, and live near to sea level,
- You can either go the easy route by putting a thin washer under the jet needle;
- Go the difficult route, and use the OEM carburetor and drill out the jets to a 105 or 108.
- Or go the more expensive route, and get a PZ27 from Amazon or Fleabay, and a jetkit, and install a 108 main jet.

For some reason, there are no pilot jets available for a PZ carburetor.

I'm interested to see how my MPG values will change. Probably lower MPGs.
Will need to do an MPG run soon, once the 30T rear sprocket arrives (apparently the company had sent mine to the wrong address).

[ProDigit]

Well, the project is still continuing.
The 30T rear sprocket arrived, and in combination with the 19T front sprocket, it makes this bike feel much more like a bigger bike.

It needs a bit more fine clutch control to start from a stop, but no complaints about acceleration.
1st gear accelerates fine, second and third a bit slow, so I usually try to hit 6-7k RPM in third gear. Fourth gear easily hits top speed at 8.4k RPM (roughly 64MPH indicated), meanwhile fifth gear does between 47 indicated (45GPS) with a slight headwind, to 60MPH on the way back.

So top speed definitely suffered, due to lack of engine power.

The rear does allow for a 29T should one so desire, however, I'm going to keep the 30T on there, and take out the amazon bought PZ27 carburetor, and swap out the OEM one.
Not because it's bad, but because the fuel bowl is cracked around the screws due to drilling them out, and it'd get more and more difficult to keep opening and closing it.

At roughly 10ft above sea level, and 90 degrees weather, the OEM carburetor came with a 40 pilot, and 95 main jet.
I upped this to a 108 main jet, but the exhaust is still running lean at 75-100%.
So I thought of opening up the PZ27, take out the pilot jet, use some solder flux on it generously, and add some solder in the jet, and just heat the whole thing up.
That way, a microscopic layer of solder lead will coat the jet, narrowing the opening hopefully by just enough to lower the idle fuel ratio, because it's running too rich.

With that setting I'd be able to richen up the main jet to 110, and get a little more power out of the engine, to match the 19/30T sprocket setup.

Unless someone has found a link to a smaller pilot jet for the PZ27?

The engine itself seems to gain some power around 6k and 8k rpm, and I'm wondering if this is valve float-related?
It's especially noticeable with taller gears, where the bike has trouble reaching 55MPH (<6K RPM) but then seems to accelerate faster from 6k to almost 7k RPM (55-63MPH) in 5th gear.
I'm not complaining. Bike hits well over 64MPH indicated on a short run in 4th gear (8.1k RPM) if I want to go faster.

5th gear now makes the bike want to stay below 5-5.5k RPM (45-50MPH), where it should get much better MPGs; except for with a tail wind or downhill.

I was thinking, when the main jet is upgraded, the bike runs cooler. That means if there was an easy way to increase compression ratio, you could increase performance, while consuming even less fuel.
I don't yet have sufficient knowledge on pushrod engines to make this happen.

On the other hand, I took an angle grinder, and ground down a bit of metal on the motor mount, to make the after market exhaust fit.
It significantly reduced the exhaust leak, to the point where I can't even hear it anymore.

[ProDigit]

Finally made the switch to the Amazon PZ27.
I refrained from doing, just to see if I could reuse as many of the stock parts as possible, but because of a rich running 40 pilot jet, I wasn't able to continue that route.

I probably misread the Amazon PZ27 idle jet last time, because it clearly states it's a 35.

I'm currently running with the Amazon PZ27, 35 jet (included), and had to increase the 95 main jet to a 110.

Currently, the bike rides phenomenal with a slight tail wind, but with a headwind I need to shift to 4th gear, where it generally runs at between 6.5-7.5k rpm peak at ~50-60mph gps. 65 if I tuck, which is the same speed as in 5th with a tail wind doing 6-7k rpm.

It works a lot better, but I'm going to take off the pz once more, to install a 112 main jet if I have it.
If not (and the kit only has a 115), I'll leave it running slightly lean.
The summer is coming up, and that means less dense air, which a lean running bike will benefit from.


My overall suggestions have changed though.
If you own a condor or Vader 150, and you want better top speed,
You have to get an open exhaust, remove the stock airbox, swap the carburetor with a pz27 (set main jet to 110-115), get a pod air intake, and install following sprocket setup:

- 17/29t (no drilling or grinding required).
- 18/31T minor grinding needed on the sprocket cover
- 19T (with OEM 34t sprocket; some grinding necessary on both sprocket cover and engine case).

If your bike is well tuned, you could run an 18/29, or 19/33 or 32t on the rear for max top speed. A 19/30 or 19/29 isn't ideal, as it only reaches top speed with a tailwind or if you're drafting behind a vehicle.
It's ok for better mpg though.

Aside from that, I grind down the handlebar stop blocks, by 2 to 3 mm.
It's a small detail that took me a while to do, but it allows me to better turn the bike in tight spaces, even though it only resulted in 2 to 5 degrees of extra steering angle both ways.

I also needed to grind down a bit of metal from the motor mount, to fit the aftermarket exhaust

[ProDigit]

The conditions were just right today.
Was late on my way to work, dark clouds over the road, so I had to take my Vader 150 on the highway.

About 75F, humidity close to 100%, minor rain, a slight tail wind, and a car in front of me cutting the wind.

The Vader did a good job keeping up with the cars to 60, slowly creeping up to 65. I then tucked myself, got behind a F150, and after a minute or so, read 77mph indicated.
That's about 72mph gps verified.

I'm still running the 110 main jet, so it should be slightly faster with a 115 main jet.

I realized, doing 72mph isn't a whole lot of fun on the Vader, and thus I have been thinking of swapping out the 30t rear sprocket for a 31T, and up the main jet to 115.

Usually my trip to and back from work takes one line of fuel.
This one way highway trip took 2 lines of fuel.
I wouldn't be surprised to see mpg readouts drop with next fuelup.