Help! No power!

[stang07]

When I turn my ignition to "on", nothing happens. It looks like I have no power going to the ignition switch. What could be the problem. I'm almost bald, but I'm about to pull the rest of my hair out. 2019 Hawk 250, BTW...

[GypsyR]

I don't have a Hawk but on my Templar there's a main fuse at my battery which would be the second thing I would check after making sure the battery wasn't dead

[stang07]

That's the first thing, that I checked. Fuse is good!

[Thumper]

Is the switch connected? May be loose. It is probably a 4 wire connector. One should have 12V all the time. And check your grounds... At battery and engine ground.

If you have 12v going into the ignition switch, check the switch and verify that it is closing the circuit (power getting to the CDI). You can use an ohmeter to check the switch.

[stang07]

I checked. No power going to the switch. Grounds appear good. I did discover a green wire, with a connector, near the negative side of the battery, that goes nowhere...

[red2003]

If the fuse is good, follow power in that wire towards the ignition switch. There is only so many places it can be bad.

[stang07]

I ordered a new wiring harness. My next option is to burn it to the ground! I'm frustrated!:doh:

[J4Fun]

I checked. No power going to the switch. Grounds appear good. I did discover a green wire, with a connector, near the negative side of the battery, that goes nowhere...

Find the other end and connect them, my Hawk DLX has the same green wire there. My thought…

[stang07]

There is no other end! It goes to Hades!

[J4Fun]

Look closer…

[stang07]

I have a pic, but I can't upload it! There's nothing there. Where is the wire supposed to attach?
https://ibb.co/85vQcXh

[Thumper]

That does indeed like a critical ground line. If the battery is grounded to the engine and you can't find 12V from the black or red ignition switch input (I don't have a hawk, guessing on the color), then you've got to find the other end of that power line and see if it has continuity.

Hey, the good news (I think) is that you haven't got a grounded power line, which would have evidence of a meltdown!

[J4Fun]

On my bike that connects to the negative terminal of the battery. The other end has to be close by.

[stang07]

Could that be the reason that I have no power, at the switch?

[J4Fun]

Yes! The other end is very close by…

[stang07]

apparently, the other end doesn't exist. I have no idea why it's missing. It's ran great, for the last 3 years.

[J4Fun]

I see that rubber cover in the picture protecting connections the other connector could be in there. Hope I’m helping here…

[stang07]

Nope. I can't find it. I may just make a jumper from the connector to the Negative terminal on the battery?

[CheapThrills]

Do you have a volt meter? Check power at terminal with ignition off, and then with ignition on. Post the values.

[Thumper]

Do you have a volt meter? Check power at terminal with ignition off, and then with ignition on. Post the values.

What terminal? :hmm:
Are you suggesting load on the battery (voltage across the pos/neg)?

No lights, no power seems more like fuse or disconnected fitting than low battery charge.

[stang07]

I remember another half to the connector. I have no idea where it went. It ran fine without it. The other end goes to the rectifier. My battery is at 13V. I put a charger on it, just in case. I checked the starter relay. It has 12+ volts in, but nothing out. Maybe that's the problem?

[Megadan]

I remember another half to the connector. I have no idea where it went. It ran fine without it. The other end goes to the rectifier. My battery is at 13V. I put a charger on it, just in case. I checked the starter relay. It has 12+ volts in, but nothing out. Maybe that's the problem?

It's a relay. 12 volts in at which positive connection? There is the switched source from the starter button that sends power to the solenoid coil to activate it, and there is the main power from the battery that goes to the starter.

One will have 12V in and out with the ignition on and the starter button pressed. The main battery connection will always have 12V in, but will only put out 12V when the coil is energized with the ignition on and starter button pressed.

[zero_dgz]

FWIW, the ignition cylinder on my Orion is janky, and sometimes I need to fidget with they key in it to get it to close the connections if I've left it sit a while. I suspect it tends to oxidize internally, and one of these days I need to get around to blasting it free of crud and gooping the internals with dielectric grease or something. It's low on the list of priorities.

Anyhow, the key to solving electrical issues on these bikes (and all vehicles, really) is to get yourself a multimeter and make sure everything has continuity that's supposed to. Luckily, there's not a whole heck of a lot going on in these simple bikes, especially the carbureted models that don't have a computer. The entire frame of the bike should be a ground, connected to the negative terminal of the battery. Therefore, you can check everything that's supposed to be connected to ground by sticking one probe in whatever connector it is, and touching the other probe to any bare metal on the frame or anything mechanically connected to it, like a bolt head. You can also ensure your frame is indeed grounded to the battery correctly by doing the same test, but checking between any bolt in the frame and the negative battery terminal itself. I don't know about the Hawk, but every ground wire on my Bashan (very Hawk-like) and my Orion is green.

In order to determine if something "has power" you first have to determine if it's supposed to be live in the first place, i.e. have 12 volts going to it at that time, and check for voltage with your meter between the suspect live connection and ground/the frame/the negative terminal (they're all interchangeable, electrically speaking). If you're trying to check by inserting your meter between, e.g., the positive pin on the ignition cylinder socket and the ignition cylinder itself, you are likely to read zero volts because the circuit is not complete if the cylinder switch is in the off position. Instead, check by inserting your meter between that pin and any available ground.

Most vehicular circuits work by being connected directly to positive voltage all the time, or at least whenever the ignition cylinder switch is in the run position, and whatever switchgear controls it simply completes the circuit by connecting it to ground. This is certainly the case for your starter relay, but it will always read "no voltage out" any time it is not energized, i.e. you are not attempting to crank the engine at that exact moment, which is pretty much all the time. Megadan is correct about your starter relay, and if you suspect your starter and/or relay is borked you can either apply 12 volts to the relay's coil terminals via an external source and see if it clicks, *or* short its output lugs together with something metallic and stout that you don't particularly care about, which will bypass it entirely and should cause the starter motor to crank instantly. Sparks will be involved with that procedure. Make sure the bike's in neutral first...

The starter relay would have nothing to do with your lights not working either, though. I suspect you have either a bad ignition cylinder or its terminals are oxidized/gunked up, you are missing a critical ground connection in the handlebar area, or you have a break in the wiring harness.

You can check for a break in a wire in the harness by systematically verifying continuity between each pin/wire on both ends. The only fun part sometimes is figuring out where the other end is. Set your meter to resistance mode if it's a cheap one that does not have an audible beeper for continuity checking.

Be methodical. Panicking won't help and bouncing around all over the place guessing without actually eliminating all the variables is the one strategy guaranteed to only produce frustration and not results.

[stang07]

I may have found the problem!

https://ibb.co/CnpHK6Y

This connector goes to the switch.
That was it! Back in business!
Thanks for everyone's suggestions!

[Thumper]

Is the switch connected? May be loose. It is probably a 4 wire connector. One should have 12V all the time. And check your grounds... At battery and engine ground.

If you have 12v going into the ignition switch, check the switch and verify that it is closing the circuit (power getting to the CDI). You can use an ohmeter to check the switch.

OH! :tup:

The power at the connection was indeed EXACTLY where the problem was. FIRST question...("is the switch connected"), post #4 Oh yeah :clap:

This was not unexpected ;)

[bigdano711]

It's always better to let someone else toot your horn.

[J4Fun]

:tup:I may have found the problem!

https://ibb.co/CnpHK6Y

This connector goes to the switch.
That was it! Back in business!
Thanks for everyone's suggestions!

This post is the best because the OP was good enough to let us know the potential outcome!:tup:

[Thumper]

It's always better to let someone else toot your horn.

This forum has been undermined with new members that post useless or misleading info, often with pages of vacuous garbage that sounds like it could be right. I try to remain humble. i know my limits.

We need to maintain a skeletal structure of real, reliable info. Hey, not always right, but I don't post responses outside of my wheelhouse.

Thank you for the thumbs up.

[bigdano711]

This forum has been undermined with new members that post useless or misleading info, often with pages of vacuous garbage that sounds like it could be right. I try to remain humble. i know my limits.

We need to maintain a skeletal structure of real, reliable info. Hey, not always right, but I don't post responses outside of my wheelhouse.

Thank you for the thumbs up.
Take up golf.

[Do©Hawk]

I'm one of those noobs. I'm trying to figure my shit out. Sometimes I just blurt out thoughts especially when the topic is relatable. I apologize for making things confusing.

I deleted my previous post.

[bigdano711]

I'm one of those noobs. I'm trying to figure my shit out. Sometimes I just blurt out thoughts especially when the topic is relatable. I apologize for making things confusing.

I deleted my previous post.
I can't be sure, but I don't think he was referring to you or me. If he was, well, that's just downright passive aggressive.


I used to censor my thoughts...until I realized I was censoring my thoughts. Now I just let 'em fly and if I'm wrong, no sweat. I've never had a problem admitting when I'm wrong. It's the only way we learn, is it not?

[Thumper]

No way...You guys aren't new !

And you don't come off as punching above your grade. The main reasons I try to stick to stuff I have clue about is that I won't mislead folks and make a fool out of myself, and I don't want to contribute to the confusion. I delete my mistakes if they turn out to be stupid :lol:

Opinions and suggestions are fine, but a couple of these new members spout off like they are certified motorcycle mechanics with decades of experience, even while they don't even know the difference between a valve and a carb slide! Teenagers probably.

[Do©Hawk]

I'm never afraid to admit that I'm wrong. It happens often.

I posted my relatable problem, but named parts incorrectly, then added a picture and was wrong about what it was...I figured all this out on my own after my post. It was better off deleted to avoid more confusion.
I am not a mechanic and certainly not an engineer so while I know enough to "git'r'dun", I don't always convey it well. I was completely new to motorcycles less than a year ago. I am enthusiastic about it though.

[buzz]

If you never done nothing wrong,you never did anything.

[bigdano711]

Everything I've learned about carburetors started about 3 years ago when I inherited an old lawn mower that needed the carb cleaned. All I did was pull it apart, clean it, and put it back together. Bam, she worked. That and an air filter replacement. Still running to this day.


Then I bought the Hawk almost one year ago and studied hard and got the Nibbi dialed in pretty good. She's a little rich on the main jet, but I'm ok with that for now. Just about due for an oil change and I'm switching to Valvoline Full Synthetic Motorcycle 4-Stroke 10W-40. Hoping that will help out the clutch but will order the springs just to have them on hand.


I wouldn't even know to do that, or the fork oil change, if it wasn't for this place and some YouTube videos. I am very grateful for the knowledge shared.

[flopsweat]

I'm enjoying the advice column this post turned into. That's my big grief with the dandanthefireman discord chat I'm on, one person asks a simple question and gets 30 competing answers. I do my best to only share something that I personally had experience with, and still you get snarky comments like "good for you, want a cookie?" when you're just telling a new rider what speed you change gears at. And pretty much anything I've learned about how a motorcycle works has came from here.



That covers my wrenching questions, DDFM videos covers the cognitive stage of burning images of thousands of crashes and close calls into my brain, which have for sure saved my butt more than once.

[bigdano711]

If you never done nothing wrong,you never did anything.
That reminds of one of the greatest quotes I ever heard at a 12 step meeting.


"If you don't do nothin', won't nothin' happen."
-Ray P. with like 127 years sober

[buzz]

so true