Hawk-X 250 vs DLX vs Lifan KPX

[eatondirt]

Hi,

I'm facing some decision paralysis at the moment. I'm hoping maybe someone has some advice for a new rider who was hoping to get into offroading in general.

I've been doing tons of research on these bikes, almost pulled the trigger on a Hawk 250 until I did a little more research and realized this was a rabbithole with more nuance than simply "Buy 1600 dollar bike and take it off-road". I would like a bike but also one that I could own to keep. I tend to not throw away my purchases, ever.

For a little background, I had started this journey at a dealer looking at new Japanese name brand dual sports. Unfortunately dealers and the used market have seem to have lost their minds where I live. $5000 for a 5 year old DRZ400 with 10K miles is typical where I live on the East Coast and CRF250s going for well over $6000. The most affordable bikes I can find is the KLR 650. A 480 lbs adventure bike that would likely not play well with an inexperienced, short rider of 5'6" stature and 29 inch inseam weighing a meager 142 lbs. I'm fearful that the first time I take it off-road, it would crush me like an ant.

I want this experience to be fun and be something I don't regret if I happen to spend money on one of these bikes and decide that it was never for me after all. Which is hard to do when the dealer is quoting me $5200 for a used KLX230. Which lead me to the Hawk 250.

tl;dr:
I'd like a bike that has some premium parts to it but isn't priced ridiculously expensive. The Hawk-X was my first decision until I learned the DLX is made of mostly higher-than-average parts compared to the regular 250. But then, I learned of the Lifan KPX, a model going for 2.7K on TXPS that apparently rides and feels very similar to the CRF250.

Since I'm not really sure which one to go with, I'd like a little advice if someone has it. I'm fine with a wrench, so changing a carb is not something I fear. But things like fixing shoddy, slender forks or having to hold a bike together with loctite is not something I am familiar with. Any suggestions?


EDIT: The idea of biting the bullet on a KLR 650 and just taking my licks is also not off the table, just something I am not sure is a good way to start.

[Thumper]

Lifan KPX 250 and Templars are TALL dirt bikes. You would not want that

Look into Bashan Storm 250 DB-08. It was my first Chinese dual sport. Counterbalanced dependable CG250 engine, inverted front forks, comfy seat. It has a decent luggage rack too.

I sold mine when I got. Templar X, but it was running great when I sold it.

[Bruces]

At all costs ,stay away from TXPS or any of Manny’s other dealerships ,unless you like being lied to ,ignored ,and blamed for stuff you didn’t break .Truly a Scumbag .

[Thumper]

ByHere is 1st my post on the Storm

https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?p=355615

The inverted forks are nice. I did get a Tusk folding greashift lever for it. The rack is strong and pretty wide. I really recomend this bike. Bashan has not changed it at all.

A seller in Kentucky used to have the Storm (Don Hopper?). Jeff at Peace Sports had the Bashan Recon and Brozz, but I don't think he sells them anymore. The Recon is NICE. These two bikes used to be essentially the same as the Storm, but Jeff had them outfitted with 18"/21" wheeles/tires. But they were not $1500 anymore, and unavalable now.

FYI, I took the Storm off road within the first 20 miles. It needed knobbies, so I added them. Otherwise, READY!

[Ranger Bob]

Lifan X-Pect? $2100 at Venom using the discount coupon.

[eatondirt]

Lifan KPX 250 and Templars are TALL dirt bikes. You would not want that

That's a good point too, I've never seen these bikes IRL so I'm going on what I can find in pictures and videos. I could deal with a tall bike as long as it's not heavy, because otherwise I'll be picking it up from out of the dirt when I inevitably spill it.

Here is 1st my post on the Storm

https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?p=355615

The inverted forks are nice. I did get a Tusk folding greashift lever for it. The rack is strong and pretty wide. I really recomend this bike. Bashan has not changed it at all.

A seller in Kentucky used to have the Storm (Don Hopper?). Jeff at Peace Sports had the Bashan Recon and Brozz, but I don't think he sells them anymore. The Recon is NICE. These two bikes used to be essentially the same as the Storm, but Jeff had them outfitted with 18"/21" wheeles/tires. But they were not $1500 anymore, and unavalable now.

The Brozz was one that I looked into first, but it and the Bashan Recon are sold out basically everywhere.

I've only seen the Storm mentioned but never seen an in-depth look at it, so it's another added to the list. There are not a lot of dealers around where I am at who carry these types of bikes, so I would have to find one who ships to South Georgia.

Lifan X-Pect? $2100 at Venom using the discount coupon.

Another to the list, I've never heard of this one. 5 speed with fuel injection and better parts makes it seem like it's a slightly better version from the Hawk EFI?

At all costs ,stay away from TXPS or any of Manny’s other dealerships ,unless you like being lied to ,ignored ,and blamed for stuff you didn’t break .Truly a Scumbag .

Thanks for the heads-up, I didn't know that about TXPS or who Manny even is. Which other dealerships are his? Is Venom an okay place to shop?

[vividpixel]

Maybe the regular Templar, non-X/M, would be a good choice because it's shorter, but still very capable of any terrain and easy to pick up.

I started with the TT250 based on the Hawk 250. Dealership-assembled and quality controlled as with all CSC bikes, and it was easy to get my hands on parts within 2-3 days as I damaged them.

Suspension on it is adequate for simple off-roading. Airing down tires makes a big difference but I'd still rather be on my Templar X for any rough stuff. The Seat Concepts seat does make the height very low so if you go with any Hawk-style motorcycle, I recommend getting that accessory. I felt confident slowly navigating uneven terrain or getting the bike out of a tricky spot. Rare that a foot ever had to dangle.

On the street it would do great with more power, not saying this as a speed demon but just in a realistic sense. To really keep up with street traffic (50-60mph) you need to change the gear ratio but this cuts down on the hill climbing you can do off road.

Depends on your definition of off road, and the terrain you face. I don't have experience riding on other terrain except desert stuff but with how it feels lifting a 300lb motorcycle a few times, I wouldn't touch something like a KLR650 unless my off roading was on easy dirt roads.

[eatondirt]

Maybe the regular Templar, non-X/M, would be a good choice because it's shorter, but still very capable of any terrain and easy to pick up.

I started with the TT250 based on the Hawk 250. Dealership-assembled and quality controlled as with all CSC bikes, and it was easy to get my hands on parts within 2-3 days as I damaged them.

Suspension on it is adequate for simple off-roading. Airing down tires makes a big difference but I'd still rather be on my Templar X for any rough stuff. The Seat Concepts seat does make the height very low so if you go with any Hawk-style motorcycle, I recommend getting that accessory. I felt confident slowly navigating uneven terrain or getting the bike out of a tricky spot. Rare that a foot ever had to dangle.

On the street it would do great with more power, not saying this as a speed demon but just in a realistic sense. To really keep up with street traffic (50-60mph) you need to change the gear ratio but this cuts down on the hill climbing you can do off road.

Depends on your definition of off road, and the terrain you face. I don't have experience riding on other terrain except desert stuff but with how it feels lifting a 300lb motorcycle a few times, I wouldn't touch something like a KLR650 unless my off roading was on easy dirt roads.

My terrain is mostly easy dirt roads, mud, but more urgently: Sand. Sand and gravel pits where I live can easily become over ankle-deep, and I know how poorly things can go when you lose traction in sand. Which is where my concern for getting a KLR comes from: I could easily see myself going down in some of the sand pits and not being able to lift the bike back up.

I saw people talking about the templar and the templar X, most of what I could find on it tells me that it is not a street legal bike. I don't know if that's accurate, but I'm yet to see a video or a picture with a license plate on it, and XPro's site lists it as a dirt bike for off-roading only. Is that accurate?

[Ranger Bob]

Hi,

I'm facing some decision paralysis at the moment. I'm hoping maybe someone has some advice for a new rider who was hoping to get into offroading in general.

I've been doing tons of research on these bikes, almost pulled the trigger on a Hawk 250 until I did a little more research and realized this was a rabbithole with more nuance than simply "Buy 1600 dollar bike and take it off-road". I would like a bike but also one that I could own to keep. I tend to not throw away my purchases, ever.

For a little background, I had started this journey at a dealer looking at new Japanese name brand dual sports. Unfortunately dealers and the used market have seem to have lost their minds where I live. $5000 for a 5 year old DRZ400 with 10K miles is typical where I live on the East Coast and CRF250s going for well over $6000. The most affordable bikes I can find is the KLR 650. A 480 lbs adventure bike that would likely not play well with an inexperienced, short rider of 5'6" stature and 29 inch inseam weighing a meager 142 lbs. I'm fearful that the first time I take it off-road, it would crush me like an ant.

I want this experience to be fun and be something I don't regret if I happen to spend money on one of these bikes and decide that it was never for me after all. Which is hard to do when the dealer is quoting me $5200 for a used KLX230. Which lead me to the Hawk 250.

tl;dr:
I'd like a bike that has some premium parts to it but isn't priced ridiculously expensive. The Hawk-X was my first decision until I learned the DLX is made of mostly higher-than-average parts compared to the regular 250. But then, I learned of the Lifan KPX, a model going for 2.7K on TXPS that apparently rides and feels very similar to the CRF250.

Since I'm not really sure which one to go with, I'd like a little advice if someone has it. I'm fine with a wrench, so changing a carb is not something I fear. But things like fixing shoddy, slender forks or having to hold a bike together with loctite is not something I am familiar with. Any suggestions?


EDIT: The idea of biting the bullet on a KLR 650 and just taking my licks is also not off the table, just something I am not sure is a good way to start.
I have a KLR650. I don't think it's a good beginner bike due to the height and weight. Mine is lowered 1" and I can handle it OK but I have a lot of years experience. If you go the KLR route, stay away from the 2008/2009 years. They're known as the "oil burners" for a reason...

[ProDigit]

For the price of a Lifan KPX, you might as well get a Honda XR150L.
It's lighter, lower seat, and has the same 75MPH top speed,
It's a bit more expensive and more simple in design, but, it's a Honda.
Lots of people taking it off road, have replaced the skinny rear tires with a wider tire, and are quite happy with the performance.
Not made for jumping or doing stunts, but enough power to do the trails.

The last thing you want is a nearly 500LBS bike falling on offroad terrain, so I never bought the KLR for that purpose.
If you do want a bit more power than the Honda, my second option would be a KLR 300.
It just has a tad more torque, better if you plan on going over roots, branches, small diameter fallen tree trunks, rocks...
Personally I would go for the lightest weight bike you can get, and the smallest CC for what you're using it for (like, if you do occasional short 1 mile highway exits, the 150 will be ok; but if you do regular 5-10+ mile highway rides, you'll want a 300-400cc bike.

[Bruces]

Manny is the owner and chief scumbag of txps and all the other companies he owns ,not sure what they all are but if your buying something from Dallas ,Arlington or pretty much anywhere in Texas make sure you ask us first .Venom has about the best name out there and you can expect good service from them .

[vividpixel]

I saw people talking about the templar and the templar X, most of what I could find on it tells me that it is not a street legal bike. I don't know if that's accurate, but I'm yet to see a video or a picture with a license plate on it, and XPro's site lists it as a dirt bike for off-roading only. Is that accurate?
I've got a current registration and a license plate on mine, and I know I'm not the only one! The trick is to immediately ask XPro for a certificate of origin that does not say "off road" on it. People should not be surprised when they go to their DMV to register an "off road vehicle" and get denied a street plate.

Technically, it is not approved by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. I don't see your location but you'll want to do your research around here. There are some states where they're just going to be too strict, California being the best example I know. Over there, most of these cheap Chinese motorcycles are not an option. CSC being an exception as they did get approved by the NHTSA.

The motorcycle itself has all equipment needed to be street legal in most places. The only thing missing that I'm sure some states care about is hazard lights. I live in a state where that is not a requirement and the inspection is mainly to verify the VIN. I did get unlucky my first attempt to register, but I tried again with no issue.

[Thumper]

Inverted forks offer much stiffer front end. This translates into handling improvements on the road and off road. The counterbalanced 14-15hp CG250 clone is actually 233cc, just like the TBR7, and the Hawks. Carburetion means no EFI issues, but you must rejet to run properly. My original carb did need rejetting, but ran excellent once done. Probably the most useful comment on the Bashan Storm 250 is that it is easy to ride, capable, forgiving, and comfortable. In other words, the epitome of a good first dual sport. Seat height is right where you want it. You can always shim up the front forks in the clamps to get an addition ~1/2" of lower seat height. At $1500 price point, I can't think of a better entry level dual sport.

[eatondirt]

For the price of a Lifan KPX, you might as well get a Honda XR150L.
It's lighter, lower seat, and has the same 75MPH top speed,
It's a bit more expensive and more simple in design, but, it's a Honda.
Lots of people taking it off road, have replaced the skinny rear tires with a wider tire, and are quite happy with the performance.
Not made for jumping or doing stunts, but enough power to do the trails.

The last thing you want is a nearly 500LBS bike falling on offroad terrain, so I never bought the KLR for that purpose.
If you do want a bit more power than the Honda, my second option would be a KLR 300.
It just has a tad more torque, better if you plan on going over roots, branches, small diameter fallen tree trunks, rocks...
Personally I would go for the lightest weight bike you can get, and the smallest CC for what you're using it for (like, if you do occasional short 1 mile highway exits, the 150 will be ok; but if you do regular 5-10+ mile highway rides, you'll want a 300-400cc bike.

And this was the route I wanted to take to begin with. Go to a dealership, find an XR150L or a KLX 250 of some variety, maybe even a CRF250. But it goes back into the initial problem that I'm having with dealerships in South Georgia: All of them have seemingly lost their minds. Out the door, $4500 for a XR150L. The original bike I was looking at before the idea of a China bike started was a KLX 230, which seemed to be the perfect bike, but not $5100 perfect! :hmm:

If I went and asked for their KLX 250, it would put me back $6000. The MSRP of a new CRF300L. And- after asking around dealerships and friends, I'm not the only one with this problem as of late. I have so many reservations spending $5000 for the entry level of a sport I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy, and dealers don't seem to care because there are people out there who will spend that money. Maybe it's a 'me' problem? :shrug:

Either ways, if the used market in my area wasn't in ruins this wouldn't even be a consideration. I could find any regular dirt bike or dual sport, but they're going for 90% the MSRP - if they're available at all.

If it is worth the money to get into a bike that expensive with the logic being that it will at least retain most of its value if I determine that I don't like it- I'll pinch myself and go through with it.

EDIT: As for my needs, I'm definitely not 1 mile away from much of anything. Otherwise I would just get a dirt bike and be done with it. I'll need to make 10-15 mile ferries to get to the major biking trails around here. I know the XR150 can get up to 50, so that's more than enough for the backroads and highways around here.

I've got a current registration and a license plate on mine, and I know I'm not the only one! The trick is to immediately ask XPro for a certificate of origin that does not say "off road" on it. People should not be surprised when they go to their DMV to register an "off road vehicle" and get denied a street plate.

Technically, it is not approved by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. I don't see your location but you'll want to do your research around here. There are some states where they're just going to be too strict, California being the best example I know. Over there, most of these cheap Chinese motorcycles are not an option. CSC being an exception as they did get approved by the NHTSA.

The motorcycle itself has all equipment needed to be street legal in most places. The only thing missing that I'm sure some states care about is hazard lights. I live in a state where that is not a requirement and the inspection is mainly to verify the VIN. I did get unlucky my first attempt to register, but I tried again with no issue.

This is something the DMV told me about as well, also something about the milage and odometer on the back of the MSO not being blank even if it's a new bike. Which I'm a bit confused about. I'm in South Georgia and I'm almost certain these things can be made road legal. It just requires some discussion with the DMV about its plates. I have a Florida relative I could lean on as well if it doesn't play out over in this state.

Inverted forks offer much stiffer front end. This translates into handling improvements on the road and off road. The counterbalanced 14-15hp CG250 clone is actually 233cc, just like the TBR7, and the Hawks. Carburetion means no EFI issues, but you must rejet to run properly. My original carb did need rejetting, but ran excellent once done. Probably the most useful comment on the Bashan Storm 250 is that it is easy to ride, capable, forgiving, and comfortable. In other words, the epitome of a good first dual sport. Seat height is right where you want it. You can always shim up the front forks in the clamps to get an addition ~1/2" of lower seat height. At $1500 price point, I can't think of a better entry level dual sport.

This seems like the perfect bike, then. A counterbalanced engine is what I was wanting in the Hawk-X, but was put off by the cheap everything else. Rejetting carbs is something I can do. I guess the next question on this route would be: Where would I get it from?


I have a KLR650. I don't think it's a good beginner bike due to the height and weight. Mine is lowered 1" and I can handle it OK but I have a lot of years experience. If you go the KLR route, stay away from the 2008/2009 years. They're known as the "oil burners" for a reason...

And that's my concern too, I've sat on a few and each time it felt like a kid trying out his dad's big boy bicycle with 2-3 salesmen holding the handlebars in a death grip, as equally afraid as I am that I'll drop it. Funny enough, the 08-09 models are the ones I would probably be going for in the used market.

Manny is the owner and chief scumbag of txps and all the other companies he owns ,not sure what they all are but if your buying something from Dallas ,Arlington or pretty much anywhere in Texas make sure you ask us first .Venom has about the best name out there and you can expect good service from them .

Thanks for the heads-up. I'm now noticing there are more than a few of these powersports dealers out of texas. A shame because those are the ones who offer free shipping + fuel surcharge.

[eatondirt]

Thank you again to everyone taking the time to respond to me. I know it's a lot of questions to answer and I appreciate it.

Curious, since I keep getting different answers to this: what would be considered an acceptable entry-level amount to spend for a new dual sports rider into this market? I've been told anywhere from $2000 to $8000 (That last number was from a dealer and I don't trust it).

[ProDigit]

Just because a Chinese bike is sold for $2k, doesn't mean you are going to pay $2k.
There's shipping, taxes, title transfer, tag and registration.
All these fees get added to the Chinese bikes.
Additionally, many lower quality bikes may need mods to get them to work right, while a Honda is pretty much straight out the door.

Resale value of Chinese bikes is non existent.
Many people buy their China bikes and want to get 90% of their sales price or more. Dem loonies!

Longevity, Japanese bikes last longer than Chinese bikes, and are made with.better materials that don't need upgrading.

I agree on the high new price for bikes, however you can find plenty of second hand bikes for a low price, as low as a new Chinese bike, for a much better bike.

If you're the kind of person who likes working on his bike, is ok with wrenching 60%, riding 40% in the first few weeks, a china bike is probably good for you.
Though Lifan bikes are almost as good as Japanese bikes, they still need rust proofing, bolt loctiting, and minor part upgrades.

[eatondirt]

At the end, would you say 4,000 sunk into a China Bike is about the normal price of one?


I only ask because I would have to go through the song and dance with an XR150 in getting a new carb, new airbox, doing a ton of mods anyway, right? I know they have some shortcomings of their own. Plus, OTD for an XR150L right now if I went to a dealership is 4,100.

I'm never going to find one of these used at a reasonable price, I've come to that conclusion a while ago. Anything remotely in the XR150s class right now I've seen go for ~$4K used where I'm at. TW200s for 4K used are not uncommon. That's almost the price of a new one from the dealership, all titles and tags taken care of.

If that really is the entry price then maybe a new rider like me should just bite the bullet on a new bike from the dealer. I'm okay with a wrench but I am getting this to ride first and foremost.

[Do©Hawk]

Don't forget to factor in the cost of riding gear. It adds up quick and like it or not, it is part of the equation.

[Bruces]

There are a ton of good bikes around the $2000.00 mark .

[eatondirt]

There are a ton of good bikes around the $2000.00 mark .

Maybe it's just a seasonal thing because I've been waiting close to 5-ish months now? The only bikes I've seen in this price range are these China bikes and dirtbikes. This is including the used market.

Don't forget to factor in the cost of riding gear. It adds up quick and like it or not, it is part of the equation.

I am perfectly fine with adding in the cost of riding gear, of all the things I will skimp on; safety is not one of them.
I just find the current state of the name-brand market kind of silly. The XR150 is close to a 45% dealer markup.

[Zapkin]

Manny is the owner and chief scumbag of txps and all the other companies he owns ,not sure what they all are but if your buying something from Dallas ,Arlington or pretty much anywhere in Texas make sure you ask us first .Venom has about the best name out there and you can expect good service from them .

I just saw a dude on facebook got ripped of by txps..they sent him a bike with an engine that looked damaged and old. according to what he said, they then proceeded to lie about stuff concerning it. the factory needs to put the brakes on dealers like txps.

[ProDigit]

The Lifan EXPECT 200 is about as close to the Honda XR150L as you can get. I dont have one,so I only know what I have read about them.

The Xpect is the slightly better in terms of technology, though heavier bike.
The Honda is lighter, lasts longer, made with alloys, rather than painted steel, through more expensive and has less options (no fuel gauge, but has reserve, no led screen).
If you're going to use the bike for 15k miles and get rid of it, get the Xpect. If you want to do 50k miles on it, go for the Honda.

[eatondirt]

The Xpect is the slightly better in terms of technology, though heavier bike.
The Honda is lighter, lasts longer, made with alloys, rather than painted steel, through more expensive and has less options (no fuel gauge, but has reserve, no led screen).
If you're going to use the bike for 15k miles and get rid of it, get the Xpect. If you want to do 50k miles on it, go for the Honda.

I guess that's fair, but it's a tough price tag to swallow.
That said, I do tend to ride and drive everything until it's a pile of dust. My cars from the mid 00's can attest to that.

It seems like you're steering me away from the Chinabike option at all, and there could be a good reason for that if I plan to keep it long-term. I guess my next question is: If the dealers premium is just the lick I have to take, should I upgrade a bit more then so it's at least worth the premium? 5K Gets a KLX 230.

[culcune]

It seems like you're steering me away from the Chinabike option at all, and there could be a good reason for that if I plan to keep it long-term. I guess my next question is: If the dealers premium is just the lick I have to take, should I upgrade a bit more then so it's at least worth the premium? 5K Gets a KLX 230.

My argument FOR Chinese bikes is the price. I am talking about easily registerable bikes like the Lifans or the TT250 from CSC. Registration has become difficult in many states for non-DOT approved Chinese bikes which is why Hensim/Ricky Power Sports (RPS) FINALLY got their Hawk DOT approved for 49 or 47 states (some states follow California's lead, and some flip-flop). For a couple years, they had their fuel-injected 49-state legal bike, while their carb version was still considered off-road in the eyes of the EPA. Some people had difficulties, and in some cases could not get theirs registered because of the 'offroad dirtbike' designation they were certified under with the EPA. And some states surprised me. And, I do not believe the MCOs even stated 'Off-Road'--I think the Hawk, as well as a few others, were 'red-flagged' in several states.

Brand name bikes are the way to go once you have experience--even a year or two. My reasoning is even with the fact of resale value, once you go down a bunch of times, the cost to fix the bike with genuine parts adds up while the resale value goes down (assuming there are still damages). I am fairly certain insurance doesn't cover the bikes in many cases other than riding around to work, to stores, to friends and relatives, etc. Dropping one on a dirt road--maybe not covered; trail--probably forget about it. And you are still expected to make payments on a depreciated bike.

That all being said, Chinese bikes are a bit more expensive than what they used to be, but really are much higher quality. They also have good resale considering the old-school ones that were okay literally went for a few hundred bucks or less when owners tried to sell them to get into a better bike with a brand name.

I am not sure if you have seen videos on these bikes, but there are plenty. Personally, I would go with the KPX 250 out of all the Chinese bikes, but for several hundred dollars less, the X-Pect 200 is a good deal. I know that many changed their front sprocket to get lowered cruising rpms for commuting duties, but you should be good with stock if your roads are only moving at 50 mph (change the sprocket later on if you feel the need to).

I have a feeling the Honda's 150 will underwhelm you and you will soon desire more grunt. The Kawasaki 230 might be a better choice as far as learning AND keeping (a lot of us grow fond of our useful bikes and keep them 'forever') if you decide to go with a name brand bike.

Edit: The $4k KLX 230 seems like a good contender even with the near 35" seat height (vs. the usual 36" height found on most every bike). The $5k KLX 230 S has an even shorter seat, but it doesn't seem like that should justify $1k more (I admit I didn't read all the details besides that differentiating the two). Both are fuel-injected and have 6 speeds.

One thing rarely mentioned when people are concerned about seat height is proper foot gear--one should always be wearing boots which really do bridge the gap between tip-toeing and not tip-toeing so much, as well as feeling stable and confident stopped at red lights, stop signs, traffic, etc. That 34.8" seat height on the $4k bike should not really be an issue with proper footware.

Okay--the $4k KLX as well as the $4.2k KLX with ABS are both 2023 models, vs. the $5k KLX which is a 2024 model.

[XLsior]

I'd say if you can find a used Yamaha XT225 'serow' / XT250 or Kawasaki 'Super Sherpa'


Out of the Used Japan offerings you might find a deal that would offer similar or better than current Chondas.


Some Hondas might be around but are either thrashed or over valued.


Suzuki DR350 is also a possibility though they had a limited production run so it a bit of a Unicorn but with age and parts liabilities.


I would get any Chonda over the $3k XR150L but if you are law constrained then I can see a place for it.

[Thumper]

It is undeniable that EFI has some risk. A carburetor doesn't have sensors and complexity. EFI can require modification/adjustment if it is set up too lean, and a glitchy or failed sensor can take lots of testing to isolate and repair. Lifan is better about this, but no support if it is a Hawk.

This website documents people dealing with chronic EFI issues or failure. But you might not have a problem. If you can't fix a carb, it is cheap to replace, and easy to diagnose.

[bigdano711]

I guess that's fair, but it's a tough price tag to swallow.
That said, I do tend to ride and drive everything until it's a pile of dust. My cars from the mid 00's can attest to that.

It seems like you're steering me away from the Chinabike option at all, and there could be a good reason for that if I plan to keep it long-term. I guess my next question is: If the dealers premium is just the lick I have to take, should I upgrade a bit more then so it's at least worth the premium? 5K Gets a KLX 230.
Are you the type of person to change your own oil or take it to a Jiffy Lube? I'm guessing you're a Jiffy Lube kinda guy. If that's the case, go to a dealership and whenever your bike needs service, you take it to the dealership and let them handle it. All you have to worry about is filling it with gas and riding it. Of course, you'll have to pay the price for that.


BUT, there is good news. A Jiffy Lube kinda person can become an "I change my own damn oil" kinda person. It's not hard!


Motorcycles, no matter who makes them or what kinda materials they're made out of, NEED CONSTANT ATTENTION. It is the nature of the beast. These things vibrate and rattle themselves loose. The air pressure in the tires is something you need to check like EVERY time you ride it. You should at least take a peak at the site glass to check the oil. Tuning a carburetor can be learned and EFI is coming along nicely with the China bikes.


Not sure what you need to hear that hasn't been covered. Make up your damn mind and buy something. RIDE SAFE!

[JerryHawk250]

I guess that's fair, but it's a tough price tag to swallow.
That said, I do tend to ride and drive everything until it's a pile of dust. My cars from the mid 00's can attest to that.

It seems like you're steering me away from the Chinabike option at all, and there could be a good reason for that if I plan to keep it long-term. I guess my next question is: If the dealers premium is just the lick I have to take, should I upgrade a bit more then so it's at least worth the premium? 5K Gets a KLX 230.
If you're thinking about getting a KLX230, You might as well go with the KPX250 and save some money. I found the KPX quality is every bit as good as the KLX230 if not slightly better. KPX also has a 2 year part warranty.

[Do©Hawk]

The China bikes are well worth what they cost. You'll get your money's worth out of it and then some. You can run a China bike til it turns to dust as long as you have the mechanical ability(not rocket science) and the testicular(or vaginal) fortitude to handle problems. Parts are available you just need to research harder to find the right ones.

Is this gonna be a recreational vehicle or are you relying on it as your daily driver? I have both, so mechanical hold ups with the bike aren't as big a problem for me.

Thumper's points comparing carb with EFI are true. That being said, the only break down I have experienced with my EFI Hawk was electrical, not sensor related, and could have happened to a carbed bike as well.

You have the information to make an informed decision. You have to make it and own it. It won't be easy, but in the end, it will be yours. Good luck.

[Dusman]

I have 2 Chondas and 2 Japanese bikes. My 2019 carbureted Hawk 250 has been a champ for the last 17,000 miles, but I’ve replaced nearly every major part on it such that the only thing that’s really OEM Hawk is the frame, and even that has been heavily modified with extra welds, bracing, etc. If you like tinkering, a carbureted Hawk 250 is great. If you want reliability, near Japanese quality, and minimal tinkering compared to the Hawk, go with a Lifan KPX250. It has a 35.6 inch seat height though, so that may be a factor; but, some people have lowered it an inch or so to make it tolerable for people like us who are vertically challenged (I have a 30” inseam, so I too have to be aware of the seat height issue).

[eatondirt]

These are some great posts, thanks again for everyone's input.


Brand name bikes are the way to go once you have experience--even a year or two. My reasoning is even with the fact of resale value, once you go down a bunch of times, the cost to fix the bike with genuine parts adds up while the resale value goes down
Edit: The $4k KLX 230 seems like a good contender even with the near 35" seat height (vs. the usual 36" height found on most every bike). The $5k KLX 230 S has an even shorter seat, but it doesn't seem like that should justify $1k more (I admit I didn't read all the details besides that differentiating the two). Both are fuel-injected and have 6 speeds.

This is my thought as well, the S is what I'm getting quoted on in at the dealership, and when I saw the 5K price tag, I basically abandoned all hope of ever getting it even if it is almost the perfect height for short fellas like me.

I have seen it used nearby, but that gets me into the next problem I'm having;

I'd say if you can find a used Yamaha XT225 'serow' / XT250 or Kawasaki 'Super Sherpa'

A lot of my reasoning for looking into the Chonda market to begin with was because of my frustration with the used market. It's very common for me to call up someone with a used deal at the price I feel should be worth it just to ask "Is this title in your name" or "Is this a salvage title" and be told "No, and yes". Which is code for "It was never mine to try flipping on Facebook or Craigs List, but I was hoping you wouldn't notice".

An XT250, looking at my options, would run me about 4,400 used with 8K miles. I'm sure it's a fantastic bike, but 4.4K fantastic? That's why I think the people steering me toward the KPX or the XPECT may be onto something.

It is undeniable that EFI has some risk. A carburetor doesn't have sensors and complexity. EFI can require modification/adjustment if it is set up too lean, and a glitchy or failed sensor can take lots of testing to isolate and repair. Lifan is better about this, but no support if it is a Hawk.
The China bikes are well worth what they cost. You'll get your money's worth out of it and then some. You can run a China bike til it turns to dust as long as you have the mechanical ability(not rocket science) and the testicular(or vaginal) fortitude to handle problems. Parts are available you just need to research harder to find the right ones.

You have the information to make an informed decision. You have to make it and own it. It won't be easy, but in the end, it will be yours. Good luck.

And these are more good points about them as well. I have experience with Carburetors and re-jetting carbs in small engines. I do not have much experience flashing EFIs to get better performance. Nor am I too familiar with any aftermarket equipment to do that for any of these bikes. An EJK For a Japanese bike costs $150 and will keep it tuned to any spec you desire for life, and AFAIK nothing like that exists for a bike like the KPX.

Though, I live practically at +300 feet of Sea Level, and this doesn't change until I get far away from where I'm going to be using it. I wasn't going to be using it as a commuter bike unless something catastrophic happens, so it was mostly going to be off-road recreational in and around where I live. So the default EFI settings may be just fine for me.

Are you the type of person to change your own oil or take it to a Jiffy Lube? I'm guessing you're a Jiffy Lube kinda guy.
Not sure what you need to hear that hasn't been covered. Make up your damn mind and buy something. RIDE SAFE!

Nah, none of my vehicles would have lasted as long if I was a jiffy lube kind of guy. I service every single thing I own as much as I can without specialized tools. But I think I did make up my mind.

I have 2 Chondas and 2 Japanese bikes. My 2019 carbureted Hawk 250 has been a champ for the last 17,000 miles, but I’ve replaced nearly every major part on it such that the only thing that’s really OEM Hawk is the frame, and even that has been heavily modified with extra welds, bracing, etc. If you like tinkering, a carbureted Hawk 250 is great. If you want reliability, near Japanese quality, and minimal tinkering compared to the Hawk, go with a Lifan KPX250. It has a 35.6 inch seat height though, so that may be a factor; but, some people have lowered it an inch or so to make it tolerable for people like us who are vertically challenged (I have a 30” inseam, so I too have to be aware of the seat height issue).


I think this is the solution. Spend the little extra (It's not even that much extra) and get the Lifan and deal with the Seat Height issues. No having to argue with the DOT about MSOs and the like.

I think I've made up my mind in that case, Thanks everyone.

[bigdano711]

:clap: Nice. If it helps, my next bike will be a KPX250. Love the Hawk, will probably keep it for visitors like the brother-in-law to ride.


Not sure if I mentioned it, but if this is your first bike, PLEASE check out the Motorcycle Safety Foundation:


https://msf-usa.org/


They will teach you things that will save your life.

[eatondirt]

:clap: Nice. If it helps, my next bike will be a KPX250. Love the Hawk, will probably keep it for visitors like the brother-in-law to ride.


Not sure if I mentioned it, but if this is your first bike, PLEASE check out the Motorcycle Safety Foundation:


https://msf-usa.org/


They will teach you things that will save your life.

Thank you! That's such good advice that I've already taken the MSF and got my endorsement. I'm going to be using whatever I buy to sign up for the advanced MSF courses that require you to bring your own bike.

[XLsior]

Depends on the used market.



Ever once in a while someone will sell a motorcycle in great condition at a low price just to liquidate it and make a fast buck...


Especially in difficult economic times...


The KPX250 and Templar X are great bikes and if there are enough them around the used market will have to adjust to compete...

[kyle]

Okay--the $4k KLX as well as the $4.2k KLX with ABS are both 2023 models, vs. the $5k KLX which is a 2024 model.

My buddy though the same thing until he got to the dealer and saw the out the door price on a Kawasaki.. it's not just tax/tag/title. His 5k bike cost over 6k.. furthering the argument for Chinese bike pricing being at least straight foward.

[JerryHawk250]

My buddy though the same thing until he got to the dealer and saw the out the door price on a Kawasaki.. it's not just tax/tag/title. His 5k bike cost over 6k.. furthering the argument for Chinese bike pricing being at least straight foward.

Most of the dealers add the BS fees at the end. My local dealer lost two sale from me with the SB fees.

[culcune]

Most of the dealers add the BS fees at the end. My local dealer lost two sale from me with the SB fees.

The quality of the Chinese bikes has really gone up, and the prices, even with the stimulus money causing inflation (and that was DURING COVID) of all Chinese motorsports, the current prices really haven't gone out of control. And the bikes we take for granted are much higher quality than the ones from 10 to 15 years ago, even though those ones cost about as much as they do now.

There are quite a few choices in the $2k range, and if you bump up your budget to $3k, you get into some great bikes, such as the venerable SSR XF250 or the more and more proven KPX250. Name brand bikes are a few hits and mostly misses as far as prices go. I have seen numerous posts (on this site and others) over the years from certain individuals who seem to find otd prices of big brand bikes for less than msrp (seemed to be in the Pacific Northwest, and east of there into states like Idaho and Montana). This was years ago, so I would be curious if those areas still have low, blow-out prices considering their real estate prices have gone super high--like where professionals like school principals have gotten hired and are living in RVs because their six-figure salary cannot pay for a house or even local rent--like Wyoming and Idaho and Montana. So, I am guessing the answer would be no to low big-brand bike prices nowadays.

[Dirtbike2025]

Why would anyone recommend the bashan storm 250 over the new Hawk DLX? The 24 hawk dlx has EFI, counterbalanced engine, 3.7 gal tank, better suspension. The bashan has rear drum break and is old technology

[Thumper]

Why would anyone recommend the bashan storm 250 over the new Hawk DLX? The 24 hawk dlx has EFI, counterbalanced engine, 3.7 gal tank, better suspension. The bashan has rear drum break and is old technology

Price ($1500), no shipping from China (if that one with drum brake on aliexpress is what you are referring to), the presence of front AND rear disk brakes, a counterbalanced engine, carburetor (simple maintenance), and registerable (in my State).

I am talking about the Bashan Storm 250 DB-08. I owned this bike (2022), and it is still sold today. I really liked it.
https://www.killermotorsports.com/bashan-250cc-storm-enduro-dirt-bike.html

Drawbacks? Dualsports tires, small wheels/tires

[Dirtbike2025]

You would recommend the bashan storm 250 over the hawk DLK fuel injected bike??

[Dirtbike2025]

https://arlingtonpowersports.com/rps-new-hawk-250-x-dot-street-legal-enduro-dirt-bike-balance-shaft-engine-hawk-x-250/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACSdVfvNTtg1clGvLGhGDDQE7cSU7&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI26u78fuMiwMVeUB_AB1cyCDoEAQYBSAB EgKKUPD_BwE

[Dirtbike2025]

The hawk DLX is fuel injected, digital dash, newer, more powerful, and in stock local in texas

[Thumper]

https://arlingtonpowersports.com/rps-new-hawk-250-x-dot-street-legal-enduro-dirt-bike-balance-shaft-engine-hawk-x-250/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACSdVfvNTtg1clGvLGhGDDQE7cSU7&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI26u78fuMiwMVeUB_AB1cyCDoEAQYBSAB EgKKUPD_BwE

This Hawk X has a carb, but full size tires :tup:

A carburetor is easy to clean, control jetting, maintain. I bought the Paladin for the DOHC 300cc engine. I would have preferred a carb, but the price was right ;)

[Bruces]

https://arlingtonpowersports.com/rps-new-hawk-250-x-dot-street-legal-enduro-dirt-bike-balance-shaft-engine-hawk-x-250/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACSdVfvNTtg1clGvLGhGDDQE7cSU7&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI26u78fuMiwMVeUB_AB1cyCDoEAQYBSAB EgKKUPD_BwE

That is the most disgusting shitbag dealer we see around here ,as are all his other dealerships in Texas .

[Dirtbike2025]

Thumper I am talking about the Hawk DLX fuel injected not the Hawk X. Which bike is better the Hawk fuel injected or the bashan 250?

Have you ridden the padalin 300 on highway ??

[Thumper]

Thumper I am talking about the Hawk DLX fuel injected not the Hawk X. Which bike is better the Hawk fuel injected or the bashan 250?

Have you ridden the padalin 300 on highway ??

I followed your link HAWK X (https://arlingtonpowersports.com/rps-new-hawk-250-x-dot-street-legal-enduro-dirt-bike-balance-shaft-engine-hawk-x-250/)

It is not fuel injected. Here is your post #41, with the link to the carbureted Hawk:


https://arlingtonpowersports.com/rps-new-hawk-250-x-dot-street-legal-enduro-dirt-bike-balance-shaft-engine-hawk-x-250/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACSdVfvNTtg1clGvLGhGDDQE7cSU7&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI26u78fuMiwMVeUB_AB1cyCDoEAQYBSAB EgKKUPD_BwE

And yes, I have ridden the Paladin on the highway. Street legal.