Bolt-on Oil coolers, do they help?

[Mobus]

The only thing I found out searching the web was something about a 110cc having a strong enough oil pump for it. I did a search on here and didn't turn anything up about them.

My engine runs quite hot and anything I could do to help lower the temps would probably make it last longer.

Anyone have experience with one of these? Do they help enough to make them worth the money? I'm just not sure what the story is on them, i.e. is it really just a bolt on affair to the side of the head or do you have to remove the head and make some mods to the head?


http://www.scooterparts4less.com/web_gas/4Stroke_50ccTo125cc_OilCooler.htm

Thanks,

Mark

[mrhyak]

On my DR650 the oil cooler is on the right side of the engine attached to the frame at an angle so not to stick out too far. I'd think an add-on cooler would be mounted similar.
I added a photo of a DR650 w/cooler to show. It is not mine, but except for the color my bike is the same thing)

http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo265/0nestitch/2009dr650003.jpg

[Mobus]

So I guess one would be a worthwhile investment then.

[DesertDog]

yes oil coolers help

if your still in doubt call the #800 on the back of the oil bottle that you use and ask the tech group there, they know all and can tell all

[china_parts_canada]

The only thing I found out searching the web was something about a 110cc having a strong enough oil pump for it. I did a search on here and didn't turn anything up about them.

My engine runs quite hot and anything I could do to help lower the temps would probably make it last longer.

Anyone have experience with one of these? Do they help enough to make them worth the money? I'm just not sure what the story is on them, i.e. is it really just a bolt on affair to the side of the head or do you have to remove the head and make some mods to the head?


http://www.scooterparts4less.com/web_gas/4Stroke_50ccTo125cc_OilCooler.htm

Thanks,

Mark

Hi Mark,

I agree that oil coolers do seem to make a difference. The last pit bikes I brought in have 140cc engines in them and the oil cooler does seem to help keep the engine a bit cooler. and with a more consistent cooler engine also comes more power. Depending on the price I would think a cooler would be a good idea but I have not installed one so I am not sure exactly what is involved in doing it without more research myself.

By the way I do not carry these at present so I am not your guy for this part unless you are not in a hurry for it.

Cheers,

Art

[Mobus]

yes oil coolers help

if your still in doubt call the #800 on the back of the oil bottle that you use and ask the tech group there, they know all and can tell all

Air in my tires helps too, so does gas in the tank, who'd have thought? :roll:

Both my vehicles have oil coolers in them because I know they help.

The question was whether the style of oil cooler pictured in the link I attached to my original post was worth a flip or not. Apparently it is.

Since we're giving helpful hints here, may I suggest you read the entire post next time instead of just the heading.

Thanks anyway,

Mark

[DesertDog]

i did read the entire heading ?

that was a statement in a nut shell,
straight and to the point. enough,

with todays hi tech engine oils it would only seam adviseable to put an oil cooler on a dirt___, ? of your choice. fill in the blank. ? to me anyrate if yur goin to do extreme hard racing , riding, you name it,

just to poke around the hill's and trails every 30 minutes or an hour, and go get a drink at camper, nah, no oil cooler needed,

i mean why try and preserve a cheap made engine, it wont last any longer with an oil cooler than with out.

have'nt you heard the latest on health and fitness, all the health food , drinks and excersize only add 2 more months to your life than if you would just live normal, steak and potato's, and a brew of your choice.

my point ,,your oil would never break down on just joy rides, thats my opinion and i'm stickin to it
DD

[VinceDrake]

I hate to say it, but I'm with the Dog on this one.

It's a 110. Especially when they're fairly new, they do run extremely hot, but a lot of that temperature can be controlled by richening up the mixture somewhat.

No power gains or longevity gains are likely by adding an oil cooler. To paraphrase what Mr. Dog said: "Why spend $xxx to protect a $200 engine?"

Second point I would like to touch on, These engines are *air* cooled. Not Air/oil Like a newer engine. (I.e. Suzuki SACS Honda Thermo-Lube, etc.) Lowering the oil temperature is only going to protect the oil, not cool the engine in a significant fashion. What I'm trying to get at is, even if you ran a miniature Refer-unit, keeping the oil cool, the *engine* temperature would likely remain the same, as there is not enough oil flow to the engine, or large enough passages to cool anything significantly.

More to the point, to use an example, old Beemer Oil heads were Air/Oil cooled, but they held half a quart of oil in each head at all times, to use as a heat transfer medium. No such thing on the 110.

Looking at the piccy provided in your post, and a generic 110China, there is no great place to tap in as a simple bolt on. You would have to find a major oil passage in the block, and drill into it. I would not recommend the head, as the head usually has minimal oil flow. Just enough to keep the valves slimy. You'd want to find somewhere in the block very near the pump, in a major oil passage, to maximize cooling.

Furthermore, The less rubber you have in the oil system, the happier you are for hardcore trailriding. Most of the automotive (Iknownotthesame) oil coolers system I get stuck with leak like pigs/get torn off/Burn Nicely whatever.

So what I am trying to get at is spending $X for an oil cooler to protect $2.50 worth of oil is kinda pointless. The engine would be better benefitted by running a decent synthetic, than can take the heat. That being said, a good synthetic with take more heat than a *healthy* china-engine can generate. Heat beyond what the oil can take is a sign of bigger problems, other than the need for an oil cooler.

Further to the point (you asked for it!) Other memebers have proved than the 110 can run on 5w20 in summer, full bore all the time. If they can hadle an extremely thin oil, you should be fine with some heat and 15w40.

And maybe check your tire pressure, and put some fuel in it while you're at it.

--Vince

[Mobus]

Thanks Vince. That's what I was looking for. I had my doubts about using that cooler vs. just changing the oil with more frequency, but I wanted to get details from those with experience in these matters. I didn't want to buy the cooler simply for the "looks cool" factor, I'm not into that. The cooler I gave the link for has a cooler block that bolts on to the side of the head replacing the finned side cover opposite the cam sprocket. The only thing it would aid in cooling is the oil to the valves and really nothing else. Economically not worth it when those coolers cost anywhere from 25%-50% of the cost of a replacement engine.

Oh, and the best mod I've done to my china ATV so far has been to replace all the loose and wobbly plastic bushings on the front end with Delrin that I turned on my lathe. All were turned to nice tight tolerances, and had to be pounded into the arms with a rubber mallet. Rides like a jap ATV now, no more horrendous toe-in they put on it from the factory to make up for the slop. Best part is the Delrin will probably outlast the whole ATV, the stuff is amazing.


Thanks,



Mark

[VinceDrake]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a delrin? I'm not farmiliar with the term...

Myself, on my machines I've using a combination of Surplus Transmission bushings I had kicking around the shop and generic needle bearings.

Things I've done on the wife's ATV, replaced the rear swing arm bishings with Bearings (SKF #6001RS) and when the front end bushings went I filled them with structural grade eurethane (Sp?) Makes for a better bushing than stock, but not as brutal as the bearings... Matter of fact I ended up making rear trailing arm bushings for my '93 Passat with structural Urethane. 1 year and no end whipping yet... :D

This is the beauty of these machines, they encourage, no They *Demand* creativity! :D

--Vince

[LynnEdwards]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a delrin? I'm not farmiliar with the term...

Delrin is a brand name for a type of plastic. The generic name is acetal. It is a joy to machine, fairly rugged, and dimensionally stable. It is also expensive compared to UHMW or Nylon.

[Mobus]

Not a problem, after all we're here to learn from each other. :) Delrin is DuPont's registered trademark name for acetal polymer. Porsche and Audi have been using Delrin for some of their bushings for years, and it's widely used in industrial machinery and robotic arms. It's light and is resistant to wear. It is fairly easy to machine, pretty much acts like aluminum on the lathe. To test it I cut off a 1/8" thick slice of it and tried to snap it in half and could not! I even folded the piece over and banged on the folded edge with a hammer and it didn't even exhibit stress marks, just abrasions and flat spots from the hammer blows!

My understanding from the sports car crowd is that the delrin transmits more vibration than urethane, but because it is so ridgid it is preferred over urethane for longevity and precision. Urethane will get wallowed out and require replacement over time, but gives a nicer ride (at least in a car). Delrin will last 20 times longer, but will transmit more shock and vibration for a rougher ride.

I'm not a complete fan of wiki (because anyone can put whatever they want for info), but it looks like someone got this pretty much spot on for info on Delrin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetal_resin


The original from china bushings were just cheap plastic and were undersized for the A-arms on my ATV, one even had a spiral crack, and this thing is only a few weeks old. The metal center tubes that the bolts go through fit the bushings tight, but the outer parts of the bushings themselves missed touching the A-arm tube walls by 2mm. Since I've put in the delrin bushings the front end has stayed tight. I took it onto a flat straightaway and wound it up to 25mph with my 195 pounds on it with not a single wobble from the front end. Best 4 hours I've spent in front of my lathe making these. Honestly for an ATV urethane will work perfectly fine and probably last for years. The only reason I used the Delrin was because I had two 12" long 1.5" rods of it just begging to be turned. Needless to say, bringing them down from a 1.5" OD to a 25mm OD there was TONS of black swarf all over my home shop, LOL.