All-Road 250cc -> Carb Rejet -> Bogging Down -> Shu [Archive]

puush

11-28-2008, 04:50 PM

Hi All,

I have recently rejetted the Carb on my AllRoad 250cc Dirt bike. the bike wont start unless I spray starter fluid into air filter. After starter fluid the bike starts but after it warms up it will bog down and quit. It wont start again until I use starter fluid. Do I have to adjust the Valve's on the bike. This is about the only thing I haven't done.

The bike has redneck air filter and PowerCore FMF exhaust. Do you all have any suggestions/solutions on how to remedy this issue??? Thanks

Michael A

phil

11-28-2008, 08:20 PM

couple of things i (we) need to know did it have the issue before you jetted my guess is a little something got into the jets if this just started as for the valve adjustment if it ran before fix the problem at hand first good luck :lol:

puush

11-29-2008, 05:17 AM

Yes,

It had the same issue "before" I rejetted carb. Any suggestions? Thanks

phil

11-29-2008, 05:30 AM

if the bike has a few hours on it a valve adjustment could help as the valves wear the clearance gets smaller .002 isnt much anyhow and it may be holding a valve open but you can check this by seeing if our compression is low without tools you can still tell by using you finger in the plug hole if compression is good i would look to a float adjustment sound mostly like its starving fo fuel maybe even the tank vent blocked

puush

11-29-2008, 07:45 PM

I just brought a compression tester today to test on a buggy I have. What should the compression range be for the dirt bike???

Also, do you think I should bother with the valves at all? I bought a metric fueler gauge just in case. The Gas tank vent shouldn't be blocked because I can visually see fuel coming out of the tank because I have a clear gas tube from the gas tank. What is a Float Adjustment entail??

I really need to get this bike running now because Honda didn't approve me for a loan for a new dirt bike. I will stick to chinese bikes.

phil

11-29-2008, 08:40 PM

just a guess but i would like to see something around 100 lbs on compression if is the valves it would read 30-40 maybe 0
for the fuel cap vent you can just take the cap off from what your describing it sounds like fuel i have said this before, get the bike running with the air cleaner off rev it up then take you hand and smack it over the opening where the air filter was this takes a few trys but you want the engine to suck the jets clear using the vaccum of the engine trust me sometimes this works and its easy worst case you may foul a plug once you get it running ill give you more tips like a better fuel filter and my favorite av gas :wink:

puush

12-01-2008, 01:25 AM

Thanks man. I will give all of these suggestions a try.

Michael A

puush

12-03-2008, 03:39 AM

I did a compression test on the bike and it read 120. I don't know what else to do. To refresh: I have a open cone air filter, fmf powercore 4 exhaust and new mikuni 30mm carb with 125 main jet and 45 pilot jet. The bike start with starter fluid and when it warms up a little, when I rev it, it bogs out and dies. This is a AllRoad DB-27A Dirt Bike. I have rode it hard.

I am going to purchase a CMS 250 xmoto dirt bike this week from countrymotorsports.com but i won't sleep well at night until I fix my AllRoadDB-27 Dirt Bike. Thanks for all your help dudes. seriously.

Michael A

TeamCheap

12-03-2008, 06:18 AM

What does the spark plug look like?
is it wet, dry, white, black, tan ????

Have you checked the fuel flow to the carb?
shut the fuel off pull the fuel hose off at the carb and then let the fuel run into a clean glass jar for a minute or so and see if it slows or stops.

If that is fine then check the carb, the float needle and float level.

have you checked the wiring, spark plug lead and stuff.
I had a snowmobile that ran great at idle to mid range but cut out at top end and it was just a wire grounding out.

Is the choke working right?
does it have a compression release?

katoranger

12-03-2008, 07:52 AM

It really sounds like you are not getting any fuel. If you need to spray starting fluid in it to get it started and then it won't rev after you get it running really sounds like a fuel starvation problem.

I would check for fuel flow from the tank first. Remove the fuel line at the carb and get a glass jar and then let it run into the jar to verify that you have fuel from the tank. Let it run it for a few minutes at least to make sure the tank vent it working.

If that tests out then move to the carb. Take the bowl off and verify that the float is working and that the needle valve it opening up to let fuel in. It may be that the float is set too low and keeping the valve shut all the time.

Allen

warrior91

12-03-2008, 01:19 PM

I concur...fuel starve.

puush

12-03-2008, 07:55 PM

Well, I took the Spark Plug out last night and it is "black".

The Mikuni Carb is new and when I rejetted it the needle, float and choke all functioned ok from looking inside.

I have a new NKG wire to spark plug.

What is a Compression Release?

I will check fuel flow from the tank again. Thanks for all your help dudes.

Michael A

phil

12-03-2008, 08:07 PM

dont worry i doubt you would have one (compression release) have you tried smacking you hand over where the air filter goes

puush

12-03-2008, 08:20 PM

I will give it a try covering air filter hole.

TeamCheap

12-04-2008, 05:42 AM

If the spark plug is black, sooty black then it is running to rich and you'll need to lean it out.

try a main jet in the 110-115 range.
You may want to try a smaller pilot jet as well.

Is there much of a difference whether the choke is open or closed on how it starts ?

IronFist

12-04-2008, 03:14 PM

puush

12-04-2008, 08:36 PM

I have to full choke and use starter fluid to get it started and then go to half then no choke when its warmed up. Then it will bog down and quit.

phil

12-04-2008, 08:52 PM

you are running out of gas your running too lean thus choke + starting fluid to crank and some choke to run the question is what is reducing fuel supply if there is a drain at the bottom of the float bowl turn on the gas and open the screw if fuel flows well then you have mostly ruled out float tank and the lines then all thats left is the jets :wink: or a little dirt in one

puush

12-04-2008, 09:52 PM

well, when I have taken the carb off before to check it out fuel would pour out of it so I dont think its a float/bowl problem.

I am gonna shorten the fuel line from my gas tank to carb and take out fuel filter. Is this good idea?

I am gonna try to cover air filter opening on carb also to see if this might blow out any stuff in the jets.

I am purchasing a xmoto 250cc chines bike tommorrow. I hope I dont have lots of problems like with the DB-27. Honda wouldn't give me financing for a CRF dirt bike. oh well. The xmoto 250cc cost $3000 less!!!

I wont be free until I get the DB-27 to run again. Thanks for all your helps dudes.

Michael A

phil

12-04-2008, 10:07 PM

you dont have too if it runs out when the line is unhooked from the carb its good i really really think you have a little something in a jet. this is easy you have to take the air filter off no short cuts rev the engine up not crazy high and put the palm of your hand over where the filter hose was what happens then is the engine that was sucking all that air now trys to pull it form somewhere else (jets gas line etc) i always do this to the new bikes and i have done it to a little 50 that i just rebuilt with new jets and it run much better it just cleans real good what you would miss with your eye it gets it wont get the mean stuff and use common sense it wont suck you in but you can feel it do this a couple of times and let me know shame you dont live closer :lol:

TeamCheap

12-04-2008, 10:15 PM

If you have to use starting fluid it is either very VERY cold where you are or the thing is so far out of wack that it will need a very close looking over in several area's.

OK so how well does the fuel flow from the fuel tank to the carb???
(no thinking, no assuming, no guessing its fine, just do a simple fuel flow check)

shut the fuel off
pull the fuel line off the carb
put the hose into a CLEAN glass jar(so you can watch whats happening and reuse the fuel also)
turn the fuel on
let it run for a minute or so
if it slows down then look for the cause of blockage(fuel petcock or fuel cap vent)

If you want to go the super super easy way then just use "the magic chant of cuss words on it" no it wont help but neither will side stepping the process of elimination.

Three basic things to get an engine to run
fuel (gas and air mixture)
a spark (to light the fuel/air mixture)
and compression (to make use of the fuel/air mixture explosion)

after those three are there its pretty much a matter of tuning

puush

12-04-2008, 10:50 PM

I will definately try to clear the jets with my hand covering carb air hole. And as far as the fuel line, I did take it of and let it run into a jug and fuel did flow without any problems. So I guess I can eliminate that. Its possible that jets might be obstructed with miniscule somethings. When I received the nw Mikuni 30mm Carb a couple months ago some idiot packed it in a box with a bunch of Styrofoam Packing peanuts and bits got all over inside. I assume I had cleaned it thoroughly but maybe I didn't.

Some history. Before I put the new Mikuni Carb on I had first put on a straight thru Air Cone Filter and a FMF PowerCore 4 exhaust. At first I didn't rejet my carb with the the FMF exhaust and air cone filter but the bike ran fine for couple hundred miles. I rode it wide open alot on a 20 fire trail mountain road. Then the last time it ran it just started bogging down and quot and then wouldn't start.

I replaced carb with Mikuni and rejetted and now I am where I am at.

Thanks for all the help mang...

Michael A

katoranger

12-05-2008, 06:37 PM

You may also want to replace that spark plug too.

puush

12-05-2008, 07:10 PM

where can I order a spark plug online? Also, I need a large nut that goes on top of my triple clamp that goes on top of the forks. Any suggestions? You guys rock.

Michael A

katoranger

12-08-2008, 09:15 AM

Take the one you have to a parts store and have them match it up with on NGK. Should be less than $5.

Allen

puush

12-08-2008, 10:11 PM

Well, i blew out the jets as best as I could and got bike running for a couple minutes with choke off but as bike warmed up and i revved engine it bogs out and dies. Also< i had to kick start bike to start it. And bike absolutely will not start without starter fluid. I bought new battery but trying to start runs battery dead and now its seems like battery doesn't want to charge. i am charging battery now. I don't know what to do. this is driving me insane. Thanks for all your help dudes.

Michael A

katoranger

12-09-2008, 08:16 AM

Did you get a new plug? I am wondering if you have a weak spark.

Do you have another bike you could swap the coil and/or CDI box from?

I am thinking coil. The starting fluid is highly volatile and the weak spark is able to ignite it and the bike will stay running at idle speeds.

I have seen this happen with the wrong sparkplug installed too.

Allen

Cal25

12-09-2008, 09:33 AM

I think Katoranger is on the right track again.

katoranger

12-09-2008, 09:48 AM

I have been thinking about the black plug and the need for starting fluid to get it going.

If he was running rich the starting fluid would only make it worse and it really seems that he has checked the fuel system thoroughly.

Time for the next step.

Allen

puush

12-09-2008, 04:50 PM

I will get a new spark plug. Why is new battery dieing you think? Thanks guys

Michael a

katoranger

12-09-2008, 04:57 PM

Check the wiring for shorts. Espicially the wiring for the coil and the cdi. It may be wire shorting onto the frame give the coil a weak signal.

If the bike hasn't run much it won't recharge the battery in a short period of time after extended cranking. Also a shorted wire could be causing a drain.

Allen

Cal25

12-09-2008, 05:31 PM

Yep, once you get it running better, the battery will be fine.

puush

12-09-2008, 06:06 PM

I looked in the manual for my DB-27 Dirt Bike and it says to use this spark plug "D8RTC".

I look at a NGK spark plug conversion website and it says that if you have "D8RTC" plug you should use NGK "DR8EA" plug..

The plug I just pulled out of my bike is a NGK "D8EA".

Is there a big difference? What do you all think?

Michael A

VinceDrake

12-09-2008, 06:33 PM

Not at all. DR8EA and D8EA are the same plug. The "R" denotes that it's a resistor type is all. Fits the same, runs the same, same heat range, just the resistor type has ever so slightly higher spark voltage, and less radio noise. If you have no radio on your bike, you've got no problems.

--Vince

puush

12-09-2008, 08:53 PM

my battery wont charge now.

Its always something. I will have to buy another one I guess. didn't see any loose electrical connections. my new xmoto 250cc chinese dirt bike arrives tommorrow morning. I wont feel free until the db-27 is fixed.

Michael A

DDG1976

12-10-2008, 04:35 AM

my new xmoto 250cc chinese dirt bike arrives tommorrow morning.

Michael A

Keep us posted on the xmoto, I plan to order one this spring. I don't think my Lifan would handle too much real offroad, and I plan to ride alot of good trails with the xmoto.

katoranger

12-10-2008, 08:01 AM

my battery wont charge now.

Michael A

It makes me wonder if the stator is weak also. Without a good stator the bike won't have the power to run the ignition system.

Allen

puush

12-10-2008, 11:54 AM

where is the stator and what does it look like?

Thanks

IronFist

12-10-2008, 02:17 PM

A clymer and a volt meter might help you. :?

I never want to steer someone to a mechanic, it's not my nature, but a hot mechanic could/might/may have you going in 20 minutes and could be well worth the cash. If you have snow on the ground, you may want to spend the time and learn.

katoranger

12-10-2008, 02:42 PM

You stator is under the cover above the shifter. It creates the electrical power for the bike. If you get the bike started and idling you may be able to test for voltage from the stator. I still think that you may have a coil/cdi problem.

Here is a pic of a stator.
http://www.dunereview.com/Banshee%20Lighting%20Upgrade/NewStator-2.jpg

Allen

puush

12-10-2008, 06:45 PM

I have sent the bike to 2 mechanics already. A stock car mechanic and a lawn mower mechanic and they couldn;t fix it. Thats why I am here. I will try battery one more time, then what step should I take next? Coil, CDI, Stator? Thanks for all the help you guys are great.

Michael A

Cal25

12-10-2008, 07:27 PM

You mentioned that you are getting another bike. You may luck out and the coil and/or CDI might be the same as this bike. Try swapping the parts out 1 at a time and see if that fixes it.

There should be some tests you could do with an OHM meter to diagnos the stator but not sure where the info would be.

Be patient and keep trying. Did you replace the spark plug yet?

puush

12-10-2008, 08:53 PM

i got new spark plug but battery is dead.

katoranger

12-11-2008, 07:59 AM

This link may be up some help.
http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/fault-finding-guide.php

There is a good chance that the coil and CDI from you new bike will swap over.

I remember in an earlier thread that you said you had a problem before switching to the new carb also. I am suspecting the Coil or CDI to be the more likely failed part. Neither are expensive.

Allen

BillR

12-11-2008, 03:30 PM

Hi Michael,
Couple of thoughts:

1: I had a Suzuki QuadSport act similarly. Tried every thing posted here. Didn't find the problem until I pulled the carb and took it totally apart. Sand grains caught in a couple of jet openings. Rough shaped, so some fuel got by, but they were wedged tight enough that they weren't going to move. Air pressure from the motor side to blow the trash out and tooth picks to the rescue on one of the removable jets.

2:I've had problems with the lighting system on my GY-5 and did a lot of checking on the electrical side.
Here's one thing to check to see if the stator is OK for the ignition:
Find the wires running to the CDI from the stator.
One will be "hot" and the other will be the general chassis ground color.
Take the plug out of the bike (so there's no compression).
Set your volt meter to AC and to measure whatever is over 50 volts (mine goes from 30 to 300).
Hook the voltmeter red test connector to the hot CDI wire and the black test conn to the ground wire (or ground to the engine).
Have a friend give it a healthy kick with the kickstarter. (it takes both hands to hold the test wires, unless you have clips to grab the wires :) )
(And make sure you don't have a finger touching the metal test probe :twisted: Yeah, found out the hard way :lol: )
I got a reading of 35-45 volts AC on mine and that is plenty to start the bike with the kickstart.
If you have something less, it may be the stator.
If that checks out OK, time to go up to the CDI and/or coil.

It is not necessarily "easy" to change out the stator. On my Lifan 200cc, you have to drain the oil and pull the left side engine cover. 'Bout 10 bolts, gasket sealer and LocTite to button it back up.
Hard to say if the stators will be the same, also. I bought one on Ebay and didn't catch that it was for a GY-6, just the it was a 200cc China engine. When it arrived, totally different from the one in the GY-5.

Gotta love to tinker, if you're gonna ride a China bike :wink:

Later,
Bill

BillR

12-11-2008, 03:36 PM

i got new spark plug but battery is dead.
Did you slow-charge the new battery before using it?

You may have pulled it to low and fried a cell.
Been there/done that a couple of times with the 12v deep cycle batteries I use to charge my RC power packs.

Bill

puush

12-12-2008, 12:28 AM

wheres the best place to buy parts for my db-27? I will check the Strator also. Thanks for the tips.

puush

12-12-2008, 01:04 AM

i can buy some parts on wenesday

BillR

12-12-2008, 09:20 AM

Is this one similar to your bike?
http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=10390&g2_serialNumber=1

If so, it looks to be one of the "generic" China bike 200cc motors.
Lots of links to parts suppliers in the forums.
Check the Dual-Purpose pages for parts lists.
http://www.chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=1

Personally, I've bought parts from:
Hooper Imports
http://www.hooperimports.com/

Rabbit Scooters
http://www.rabbitscooters.com/

and off Ebay.
This member has a website and has offered to find parts if he doesn't have it in stock.
http://www.chinapartscanada.com/

Good luck and keep us posted on progress.
Bill

puush

12-14-2008, 03:20 AM

yes, that looks like my bike.

I will take out carb one more time and meticulously clean all jets. If it doesn't start then I'll buy cdi and regulator. I have a new coil on bike. Remember, the bike starts and runs for a minute or so then bog out and quits.

I have a new XMoto 250 cc. I have ridden it twice and it is awsome. Taller, better handling and more taller than my DB-27. I am glad I had the DB-27 first because i would have killed myself on the XMoto if I bought it first.

I am also trying to fix my 250cc Chinese Buggie that got over heated a little. Thanks for all your help dudes. i hope I dont have lots of problems with the XMoto but the way I ride???????

Michael A

katoranger

12-14-2008, 08:43 AM

Make sure you try a new sparkplug. I would try that first.

Allen

puush

12-18-2008, 03:29 AM

Well, finally some success you all. Determined that the fuel filter was sketchy so I removed it and shortened the fuel hose from the tank to the carb and then put in a new spark plug. Low and behold the bike started and i kept it running and blew out the carb jets some more. I took it for a test ride and it misses here and there. When I accelerate it will cut then rev back up again. But it will start right back up again.

Also, I think some of the electrical wires might have been moving the choke lever after it started which may have caused it to bog out. For now its a good mellow "flat trail" bike. The FMF muffler makes it sound loud as hell as compared to my new XMoto 250cc exhaust.

Now it just needs a Front Wheel to replace the bent one and the large nut that goes on top of the tri clap that holds handle bars. Its difficult to find a 20mm nut in a regular hard wear store and Honda shops dont want to sell any parts for China bikes where I live. i will check out the parts websites from the previous links.

I'm not sure what to do about the slight hesitation when accelerating but I am just glad I got the bike running again like it is. Thanks for all your help dudes! you"ll go to heaven for this.

Michael A :oops: