HELP!! - New 124cc ATV barely charging! [Archive]

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masta

01-05-2009, 10:45 PM

So I bought an ATV last Sat. and it's been giving me fits.

I just spent the night trying to sort out why my bike dies at night. It seems the charging system is sub-par. When charging, it barely moves past 12.5 V unless revved like crazy where it will finally get up to 13V unless you turn on the lights in which case the battery slowly dies until the bike dies. We tried a different battery that is good, and it wasn't as good as the one in my machine!

I could only ride in the day, but that would suck.

When taking off the battery cables while running I measured 2.5-3V which is miles off the 14.2V my friends Kymco Mongoose 90cc was showing. So my brand new bike won't charge a good battery.

Is it the stator? The regulator/rectifier?

I removed the stator and the string that covers the coil is coming off, now keep in mind this machine is new, barely been ridden. Maybe 1-2 hours on it total.

How do I test the stator, or have I already? Is is supposed to run at such a low voltage? Can somebody check their machine to see if it runs really low?

I also have my little 110cc machine, I checked it and it charges at over 16V, until you hit the lights, then it runs at 12.5-13v I assume it's the Regulator/rectifier?

I'm stumped. Anybody? There are Stators online, but at 65$ plus shipping, I'd rather not do that unless totally necessary.

IronFist

01-05-2009, 11:40 PM

There is a problem with your charging system. The other bikes are correct at about 14v at 3000Rpm. There are many reasons for the drain, saddly. :cry: Trickle charge the battery would be my first suggestion. (so you have a battery when the problem's fixed) I wouldn't run the bike far until you solve your problem, my second suggestion.

Several things to try before ripping apart your stator. Though in the end the stator might be bad.

I don't know what you mean, "I removed the stator and the string that covers the coil is coming off" but others may. Don't Panic, breathe. It may take time and several opinions, but you should be able to track down the fault.

I think your machine comes with a regulator/rectifier single unit? Check those connections first. Sand the electrodes with fine sandpaper if dirty, then di-electric grease before re-attaching.

I don't know the procedure but there is a way to check the voltage coming out of the regulator/rectifier. Mine was bad and replaced and I was fine after that.

You might have a short somewhere else in the system too. Same procedure, but on every connection.

I hope it's your reg/rect, it's way cheaper and easier to replace. :wink:

LynnEdwards

01-06-2009, 01:06 AM

You need to disconnect the stator from the regulator before making any useful measurements on whether the charge winding of stator is working. They affect each other so much that you can rarely tell who is at fault. When disconnected the charge winding should put out 9.5 volts AC or so while cranking (substantially higher if the quad starts). This is measured from winding end to end (it isn't tied to engine ground yet - that is done inside the regulator). It should also be about 1.2 ohms end to end. If you have the AC voltage and the ballpark resistance then the stator is fine.

Next check and double check the wiring connections, and then change the regulator.

The regulator is a shunt regulating device. As the output voltage of the stator charging system increases with engine speed the regulator crowbars the excess energy to ground, putting the charge system into current limit to maintain the 14.5 volts or so across the battery. With such a capability, a defective regulator can easily make the output of the stator look low.

masta

01-06-2009, 08:35 AM

phil

01-06-2009, 08:48 AM

i have a post somewhere on here one of the diagrams may match yours take a look its problems like this one is why i made the post

LynnEdwards

01-06-2009, 10:22 AM

Thanks for the great reply!!

The reg/rec is the solid box correct? The stator is the windings on the left side of the motor.

So the stator produces AC voltage and the reg/rec changes it to DC correct?

So if my stator is producing 9.5V AC then it's probably my reg/rec?

My regulator is a rectangular box with heat sink fins on it. Yes, it rectifies the AC voltage from the stator and sort of regulates the DC voltage going to the battery. I say "sort of" because it does a really poor job of it compared to what is possible with todays technology. Even for 1960's technology it is crude.

The stator is just three coils of wire that have magnets rotated past them. Two are used in the ignition system (high voltage ignition power and timing/trigger). The third is the battery charge winding. On my 8 pole stator it is actually a bunch of smaller coils all wound in series, but electrically it is the same as a single coil. What can go wrong with a coil of wire? It can be open, or maybe shorted to ground (an ohmmeter measurement will find this). More remote, but still possible, is a short between turns in the winding. Shorted turns will cause the AC output voltage to be drastically wrong. So yes, if your charge winding is producing roughly 9.5 Volts AC while cranking (and disconnected from the regulator) then the stator is OK.

Just a few posts back there is a wiring diagram of my 150cc Hensim quad. It shows the internal windings of the stator and how they are wired up. It also has the voltages and resistances of the stator windings written down. Yours is probably similar.

I have some oscilloscope waveforms of the charging system voltages where the stator is both connected and disconnected to the regulator. I will post these tonight (I have to go to work this morning). Of course you don't need an oscilloscope to troubleshoot a quad charging system, but it helps to see what the voltages look like so you can interpret what your voltmeter is telling you.

One final note: My quad's regulator also contains the current limit resistor for the automatic choke. Since the ignition system runs on its own power supply from the stator, the quad will start and run with the regulator unplugged, but if you have the same setup as mine the automatic choke won't disengage and the engine will run too rich when it warms up. Not really a big deal as long as you know about it.

IronFist

01-06-2009, 12:44 PM

I hope it's your reg/rect, it's way cheaper and easier to replace.
:D

Lynn...
If I ever got a quad, I'd be talking to you. :wink: Electicity ain't my forte. Glad you're here Lynn, have a great day!

masta

01-06-2009, 08:07 PM

Wow, I am overwhelmed by your responses Lynn, very informative!!

I am so busy this week I won't have time to troubleshoot, but I am chomping at the bit to get at it, I am quite confident its' the Stator. They aren't that expensive, bust seeing as the nike is new, it sucks(no warranty on these ATV's sucks!)

There are 5 wires coming out of the stator, any idea which ones I need to check for AC voltage?

My quad has a manual choke, so no issues there, but I can't see how the machine would run with the reg.rec unplugged, or maybe I read that wrong.

phil

01-06-2009, 11:08 PM

im pretty sure your wiring will be close enough to figure what you need to know with these diagrams just match and compare values there isnt a lot of diffrent ways or values used thats why i havent sent any more in and i didnt see that many people using them if you run into trouble feel free to call me or email me i may be able to talk you through it and i may have parts http://www.chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=62429&highlight=#62429

LynnEdwards

01-07-2009, 01:22 AM

There are 5 wires coming out of the stator, any idea which ones I need to check for AC voltage?
The five wires are:

1) Ignition Power (high votage, low current)
2) Ignition timing trigger pulse
3) Ground
4) One side of the battery charge winding
5) The other side of the battery charge winding

Use a process of elimination. The Ignition Power and Timing Trigger wires will disappear into the wiring harness and reappear at the CDI. Use the wire colors at the CDI to figure out which those are. Here are two common CDI's and their pin out:

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/LynnEdwards_photo/50cc-cdi.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/LynnEdwards_photo/CDI_Pinout.jpg

Ground is usually a green wire, but verify that by looking at other known ground wires.

The two that are left are the ones you're after

My quad has a manual choke, so no issues there, but I can't see how the machine would run with the reg.rec unplugged, or maybe I read that wrong.

The battery, regulator, and charge winding on the stator are there only for running the lights/accessories, and turning the starter motor. That's all. The ignition system runs on a completely independant supply. Think of your lawn mower. It doesn't have a battery, regulator, or a starter (well at least mine doesn't), nor does it have head lights. Yet if you turn the engine over by hand, it starts and runs just fine. It is the same with all most all quads.

I'm not going to get the charge winding voltage waveforms that I promised posted tonight. I thought I had them up on photobucket, but they weren't there. I found them on my PC, but I need to convert them to Jpegs and upload them. I'll have them up tomorrow.

Lynn Edwards

ejcycles

01-07-2009, 02:19 AM

Hi masta

What brand atv is it? I have a Coolster 110 atv in my shop that does the same thing. All the parts check out good, Stator, regulator & battery, tested against another atv brand with the exact same charging system and what I know they should test at. I have spent some time on it swapping parts "except flywheel" and it does the same thing, {too much time}. It may need a flywheel??

The lady didn't even want me to go this far and I didn't charge her for it, but it was driving me nuts so I tried to find out what was wrong. I swapped a good stator, a few regulators and tried a different battery, it won't charge past 12.8-13.0v with the lights off and it doesn't make it to 12.0 v with the lights on.

masta

01-07-2009, 06:22 AM

Thanks for all the great replies guys, Wow this site has proven to be amazing in my quest to go ATv'ing on the cheap.

The machine is a YongJiang, whatever that is. It's a 110cc with the Honda engine copy.

The telltale sign something is wrong is when I run the machine without the battery and check voltage. It should be at 13-14 but shows 2.5-3. That's not going to charge anything!! If that is normal, then I have no idea how I'm going to ATV at night, unless I strap a flashlight to the thing.

ejcycles

01-08-2009, 06:43 AM

masta

Close, it should show 13-16 without the battery or with a close to dead battery attached.

Granted a good charging system will charge between 13.8-14.8 volts with a low charged battery installed. With a Charged battery and the lights on it should be about the same.

The funny thing is the one I tested the customers against Charges Normally!!!

LynnEdwards

01-08-2009, 11:34 AM

Measuring the voltage across the battery is an indirect way of measuring whether or not the battery is charging. A more absolute way is to measure the charge (or discharge) current directly:

Pop the main fuse out and insert your voltmeter in its place set to measure current (amps) on the 10 amps full scale setting. [Usually you have to move the voltmeter probes into different jacks on the meter to measure current.]

As a data point my quad shows the following (battery is fully charged before test):

Engine Idling, no headlights: Battery is discharging at 0.3 amps
Engine Idling, with headlights on: Battery is discharging at 3.0 amps
Engine at about 3500 RPM, no lights: Battery is charging at 3.5 amps
Engine at about 3500 RPM, with headlights on: Battery is charging at 0.2 amps.

masta

01-08-2009, 05:32 PM

sweet, I will check that.

I am super busy at the moment and haven't had a chance to go take a look.

As soon as I do I will post the results.

BillR

01-09-2009, 12:07 PM

Is there a way to check the magnets, other than opening the cases and seeing if they have "pull"?? (Already done that, and they felt kinda "weak" to my untrained mind.

"SNIPPED"

As a data point my quad shows the following (battery is fully charged before test):

Engine Idling, no headlights: Battery is discharging at 0.3 amps
Engine Idling, with headlights on: Battery is discharging at 3.0 amps
Engine at about 3500 RPM, no lights: Battery is charging at 3.5 amps
Engine at about 3500 RPM, with headlights on: Battery is charging at 0.2 amps.

Man,
I should have cross-posted when I was having fits trying to find out what the hey was going on with my GY-5 enduro headlight going dim when the battery charging peaked.
(If interested, check this thread:
http://www.chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5461
More "tinkering" coming up to see what I get on these readings. :twisted:

Thanks for more ideas.
Bill

LynnEdwards

01-10-2009, 01:35 PM

Bill,

I'm looking at your thread. Give me a while. It is a lot to absorb!

Lynn Edwards

ejcycles

01-10-2009, 07:23 PM

The headlight goes dim & bright on any Lifan LF200GY-5 because it runs directly off of the charging stator at a rate under 13 volts. I know this as a fact ass I an an American Lifan Dealer and have worked on these and others that are directly wired the same way. Most of the Chinese bikes, scooters and atvs are wired like this. "But" you will find a few that run the lights through the battery as most other vehicles do.

The test that Lynn put up is for amperage only... Good test, because you need amperage too, but some systems put out a different amounts of amperage depending on the vehicle.

Amperage pushes the voltage through the charging system. You actually need both amperage & voltage for a charging system to operate correctly. You can have the amperage and not enough voltage or "visa versa" and a charging system will not operate correctly.

Edit...Added...
I'm also an ASE certified Auto mechanic in 6 fields, Electrical is just one of them.

BillR

01-11-2009, 02:19 PM

Bruce,
Thanks for that information. The headlight was giving me fits cause I didn't understand why the voltage would change the way does.
I had checked the charging system every way I knew and the DC part was working fine (and still is). I did the amperage check Lynn suggested, I just removed the battery terminals and ran it through a high amp watt meter I use for my RC equipment (Never do anything simple if you can make it complicated.) :twisted:

I changed over to a switched relay and run the light off the battery now. Much better.
The relay will also work off AC current, so I left the connections to the stator in place, so if the battery ever dies, all I have to do is change over a couple of wires to get a working headlight.

Great site with a wealth of information.
Bill

LynnEdwards

01-12-2009, 10:47 AM

Bill,

Sorry for the delay in responding. The last couple days for me have been really busy.

It is a mystery to me why a bike manufacturer would design the lighting system to run off AC. Just from a safety standpoint alone, if the engine quits at 55 MPH on a dark highway the headlights go out? Yikes.

I know that AC lighting system is used a lot on buggies, and it is a never ending source of problems. On some of the buggy forums there are guidelines about what lights you can use which which stator. If the headlight wattage is too low for the the stator the headlights burn up. If they are too high the lights are really dim at low speeds.

One advantage to powering the lights from AC is that the power used by the lights doesn't have to pass through the rectifier/regulator. That may be significant. If the lighting system uses 50 watts, and the R/R is 90% efficient then that saves 5 watts of heat that would otherwise be dissipated in the regulator heat sink. On the other hand any AC lighting system is going to have really poor voltage regulation, and therfore lights that run at variable brightness.

All the literature I have read on motorcycle charging/lighting systems describe the regulator as a shunt regulating device, which means that it limits the output voltage by diverting excess output current to ground. If this were literally true then the AC voltage would also be somewhat regulated because it would always be loaded down to battery voltage levels. Your regulator may be doing (or trying to do) that. From the stator voltage waveforms on my quad I now know mine is not a shunt regulating device. It looks to me more like a bucking regulator where the stator is disconnected from the load (voltage goes high) then shorted to the battery (stator goes into current limit into the battery and the voltage drops). Your regulator must work differently or your problem would be a lot worse than you describe. I wish I could see what your stator is doing with an oscilloscope. It would answer a lot of questions.

It may be that your regulator only works above a minimum load. You noted the problem was fixed by adding loads to either the battery of the stator winding. I wonder how much of a load you have to add. My brake light draws 2 amps, so if yours is the same then adding 24 watts is enough. But could you get away with a smaller load? Are you right on the edge? Would 5 watts be enough? Didn't someone mention that they solved their problem by changing the headlight? Higher wattage bulb maybe?

Somewhere in the post (my notes say page 6 of 8 ) you mentioned an open (no continuity) on the red/blk wire to the stator. This cannot be. The red/blk wire is the ignition power winding. If it were open then your bike wouldn't run (no spark). I think you made a measurement error. This winding is the white winding on the stator made with hundreds (or maybe thousands) of turns of fine gauge wire, unlike the battery charge winding which is much fewer turns of heavy gauge wire. The resistance of my ignition power winding is 440 ohms. Perhaps your meter was one too low of an ohms scale?

I must say that Tigertamer and MBlas3 are some persistant and determined guys. Their advice was very good too. This is a tough problem.

Lynn Edwards

masta

01-12-2009, 05:40 PM

BillR

01-12-2009, 08:14 PM

BillR

01-12-2009, 08:57 PM

Back to business after this one...... :wink:

Lynn,
No problem. I've been at work this weekend (ED nurse)
responses in blue
Bill,

Sorry for the delay in responding. The last couple days for me have been really busy.

It is a mystery to me why a bike manufacturer would design the lighting system to run off AC. Just from a safety standpoint alone, if the engine quits at 55 MPH on a dark highway the headlights go out? Yikes.

Definitely agree here and glad I hadn't thought of that until just now :!: :twisted:

One advantage to powering the lights from AC is that the power used by the lights doesn't have to pass through the rectifier/regulator. That may be significant. If the lighting system uses 50 watts, and the R/R is 90% efficient then that saves 5 watts of heat that would otherwise be dissipated in the regulator heat sink. On the other hand any AC lighting system is going to have really poor voltage regulation, and therfore lights that run at variable brightness.

All the literature I have read on motorcycle charging/lighting systems describe the regulator as a shunt regulating device, which means that it limits the output voltage by diverting excess output current to ground. If this were literally true then the AC voltage would also be somewhat regulated because it would always be loaded down to battery voltage levels. Your regulator may be doing (or trying to do) that. From the stator voltage waveforms on my quad I now know mine is not a shunt regulating device. It looks to me more like a bucking regulator where the stator is disconnected from the load (voltage goes high) then shorted to the battery (stator goes into current limit into the battery and the voltage drops). Your regulator must work differently or your problem would be a lot worse than you describe. I wish I could see what your stator is doing with an oscilloscope. It would answer a lot of questions.

I don't have access to an oscilloscope, so I can't get that info.
I've watched the voltage at the battery terminals and see the headlight intensity drop when the charging voltage to the battery drops (like it tops off the charge).

It may be that your regulator only works above a minimum load. You noted the problem was fixed by adding loads to either the battery of the stator winding. I wonder how much of a load you have to add. My brake light draws 2 amps, so if yours is the same then adding 24 watts is enough. But could you get away with a smaller load? Are you right on the edge? Would 5 watts be enough? Didn't someone mention that they solved their problem by changing the headlight? Higher wattage bulb maybe?

I did a little "rough and ready" experimenting with one of my RC battery chargers that has an adjustable output. I used the bike battery as the source and started a charge on one of my high amp Lipos.
When I dialed it up to 3.5 to 4 amps output the change in bulb intensity stopped (it returned to "full brightness).
As far as checking on the stator side, I was the one that tried a 55 watt H4 and got the same results. I just plugged the 55 watt into the AC headlight circuit (I'd already changed over to an H4 socket). I would have just run the 55 watt, but my concern here is that I would either melt the headlight shell or pull too much power and not charge the battery for the starter.
I'm currently running a 45 watt H4 with no issues. I checked the other day just for fun and I still see the intensity change.

Somewhere in the post (my notes say page 6 of 8 ) you mentioned an open (no continuity) on the red/blk wire to the stator. This cannot be. The red/blk wire is the ignition power winding. If it were open then your bike wouldn't run (no spark). I think you made a measurement error. This winding is the white winding on the stator made with hundreds (or maybe thousands) of turns of fine gauge wire, unlike the battery charge winding which is much fewer turns of heavy gauge wire. The resistance of my ignition power winding is 440 ohms. Perhaps your meter was one too low of an ohms scale?

Quite likely "user error". :lol:
I was following a fault-finding diagram for the Japanese bikes and none of the wires matched, so I was really fishing for the right readings.
From my experience working on my cars, I knew the battery was receiveing a good charge rate. It's that blasted AC lighting circuit that I have fits over.
All my other electric experience so far has been battery powered brushless RC motors. I can trace a fault there pretty quickly.

I must say that Tigertamer and MBlas3 are some persistant and determined guys. Their advice was very good too. This is a tough problem.

Yep, they were great and I hope they had as much fun as I did (hey I like to tinker on things :D )
Problem's pretty well fixed. I installed the CuLayer Matchbox relay and ran the power feed directly from the battery. Not a problem since.
I may play with it again just for giggles :twisted: but from Bruce's reply and your info, "it is the way it is" :lol:

Lynn Edwards

Thanks for the reply and great information. That's what makes these forums so good.
Later,
Bill

katoranger

01-13-2009, 08:19 AM

Here is one for $20

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ATV-BIKE-KART-CHARGING-STATOR-LIFAN-50-70-90-110-125_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43972QQihZ016QQitem Z260335548400QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Take a close look at the pic to see if it matches yours.

Allen

masta

01-13-2009, 04:56 PM

THanks, but that one is totally different.

phil

01-13-2009, 05:36 PM

can you post pictures and maybe some of the voltages your getting out of the stator/regulator

masta

01-13-2009, 08:49 PM

yes, I'm hoping to get out there tomorrow evening. The temps. here are -20 celcius, a bit chilly!!

The shop I bought the machine from says they'll warranty the parts, but I don't believe them!!

masta

01-17-2009, 11:04 PM

BillR

01-18-2009, 02:03 PM

So I replaced the stator with a new part, replaced the reg/rec with a new part, completely rebuilt and improved my wiring harness by adding many more larger ground wires and re-soldering/heatshrinking all connections.

No change.

Guess I'm only riding during the day. :(

Bummer :(
I would check the stator output again.
Take the battery out, turn off the gas, hook it up to a "jumper" battery, unclip the connectors and start checking voltages while turning it over.

Do the wires coming out of the rectifier match any wiring diagram??
My GY-5 had some "funny" wire connections thrown in that didn't make sense.
Something may be crossed up and you haven't found it yet.
Bill

CRidin

01-18-2009, 02:05 PM

That atv has 2 circiuts. 1 for charging and 1 for lights. Sounds like yours are intermingled.

masta

01-18-2009, 03:26 PM

I completely rebuilt the wiring harness and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. The wiring originally was terrible, but it was run properly. I added some much needed grounds and re-soldered everything. I think I am expecting too much from the existing setup. It's just junk and can't power anything other than the bike itself. I can't ride at night.

CRidin

01-18-2009, 03:31 PM

Thats incorrect. That system will power a wainch and a spotlight,as well as the stock lights at the same time. It needs to be fixed correctly

masta

01-18-2009, 03:47 PM

There isn't anything left to fix.

It has all been repaired or replaced.

phil

01-18-2009, 07:31 PM

i agree with cr i went through 4or 5 regulators on a roketa but it should charge send pics of the regulator and stator,flywheel removed let us take a look and tell us what voltages you get checking

BillR

01-18-2009, 08:18 PM

There isn't anything left to fix.

It has all been repaired or replaced.
Man, you got a doozie :?

I had some weird wiring coming off the regulator, with 2 wires that were shown as separate on a diagram, spliced together and running to the battery positive. Moving either of those caused voltages to be incorrect.

It'll be back to square one. Start at the stator checking output voltages. I'm off work Tuesday. I'll run some tests on my bike and update on what I find. I know it's apples and oranges, but at least I can get an idea of what is kicking out using just the starter.

At least you have a "daylight" ride. :)
As a possible temp solution, there are some darned good LED mountain bike headlights available (both helmet and bar mount).
You could mount one of those and get some careful, slow rides in at night.
I use a 3 LED model when I ride my bicycle in to work. Plenty of light for 20mph.

Good luck,
Bill

LynnEdwards

01-18-2009, 09:27 PM

There isn't anything left to fix.

It has all been repaired or replaced.

So here is a wild idea (based loosely on BillR's AC lighting system problems on his bike): Disconnect both wires of the stator charge winding from the regulator and use jumper clips (Radio Shack style) to connect it to a stand alone headlight that is not connected to any wiring harness. Start up the quad and look at the headlight brightness. Incandescant lights don't care if they are powered from DC or AC.

This tests whether the stator is capable of generating enough *power* to run one light (power is voltage times current). My quad does not have enough stator power to run both headlights at idle (hence the battery discharges at idle with the lights on), but generates more than enough at around 3500 RPM. At idle you should see a dim headlight, but at higher RPM you should see the light brighten to normal levels. If it doesn't brighten up at higher RPM, then this proves the stator system is the problem. If the headlight does get to normal brightness then jump in a second headlight. If it still gets to normal brightness then the regulator or wiring is at fault.

Remember that when you are doing this there is no voltage regulation going on at the output, other than that done by you via the throttle while monitoring the headlight brightness. So if the headlight gets to normal brightness don't rev any higher or you might burn out the headlamp. Output voltage from the stator is directly proportional to engine RPM. Available output power is also (I think) proportional to engine RPM (or is the square of the proportional increase in RPM?).

So when you changed the stator did you change the flywheel also? One wouldn't think there could be anything wrong with the magnets, but after a bunch of us discussed this at work we came up with a scenario where the magnets could lose their strength over time if they are not manufactured correctly. This is a long shot idea, but since everything else has been changed the unlikely things are starting to look more likely.

masta

01-19-2009, 06:16 AM

I will get out there and do some more testing once I have another moment. All the hours into these China bikes is sucking my will to live. I probably have over 30 hours into both machines trying to get good reliable operation, and I'm still not there!!

The machine does charge, just not very well. Not enough to keep the battery charged when using the headlights.

warrior91

01-19-2009, 10:08 AM

My 150 gy6 ATV does not charge very much unless RPM are quite high...like halfway through the throttle at least
Lights do not work for 10 min until the crappy bat charges some. I kick the bike to start as the crappy batt. and substandard start button failed when new (bike is 1 year old). After 10 min of light...the lights start dimming unless RPM are held...but even so there is not enough light to iluminate...just be indicator lights... I don't think the system whill charge enough to keep ahead of lights...mabey keep up. So I think a new battery will make a difference as it should at least hold a charge unlike the china batt. :roll: .

BillR

01-19-2009, 09:42 PM

There isn't anything left to fix.

It has all been repaired or replaced.

Remember that when you are doing this there is no voltage regulation going on at the output, other than that done by you via the throttle while monitoring the headlight brightness. So if the headlight gets to normal brightness don't rev any higher or you might burn out the headlamp. Output voltage from the stator is directly proportional to engine RPM. Available output power is also (I think) proportional to engine RPM (or is the square of the proportional increase in RPM?).

Not that wild an idea. :twisted:
I did this with my bike and blew a bulb. Everything was going great til I blipped that throttle. :wink:
When it's not connected to the regulator; the stator on the 200cc puts out better than 50 volts AC at around 4K rpm.

And Masta, I have to agree with you on the amount of time spent in working on one of these machines.
Gotta love to tinker 8)
Bill

warrior91

01-19-2009, 10:08 PM

Thats incorrect. That system will power a wainch and a spotlight,as well as the stock lights at the same time. It needs to be fixed correctly

I'd like to see a full size Polaris do that for any length of time...and keep running!
I think you meant winch...unless a wainch is standard chinese speak...lol

LynnEdwards

01-20-2009, 12:52 AM

Not that wild an idea. :twisted:
I did this with my bike and blew a bulb. Everything was going great til I blipped that throttle. :wink:
When it's not connected to the regulator; the stator on the 200cc puts out better than 50 volts AC at around 4K rpm.
Bill

Ah, but there in lies the proof. If you can easily pop a headlamp or two then the stator is not the cause of the lack of available power to charge the battery. It would mean there is enough power available from the stator, and that the regulator is blocking it from charging the battery.

On the other hand, if the head lamp is still dim or barely makes brightness at high RPM then the stator/flywheel isn't up to the task. No need to look at the regulator or anything else further down the line.

Lynn Edwards

BillR

01-20-2009, 10:42 PM

So I got it to the house and spent a while outside just trying to get it to start.

When I finally got it going I checked for AC out of the stator and it showed approx. 4.5 while cranking.

I will assume that that is not good. Next I will measure amperage across the fuse. I am not expecting much.

So from what I've done so far I can only assume the stator is bad. I guess I can order another, which sucks, I don't think they are that cheap. I think I'm going to order a new reg/rec while I'm at it, I might as well start fresh. If this doesn't fix it, I guess I will only be ATV'ing during the day.

Thoughts?
Masta,
I checked the readings on my bike (200cc GY-5 Enduro) today:
Unplugged the stator and turned the engine over.
I read 7.5 to 8.5 volts using the electric starter.
3.5 to 4.5 volts with the kicker.

With the stator plugged back in to the rectifier/regulator and the bike running at idle, I get 14-16 volts AC.
Battery gets around 13.5 volts DC at idle, increases with revs.
I didn't check the amp reading across the fuse.

From previous checks, I know that the stator is putting out better than 50 volts AC when it is running and not plugged into the regulator.

Bicycle headlights: The ones designed for mountain biking are pretty rugged.
Expensive, loads of light
http://www.dinottelighting.com/
This is the one I use for bike commuting to work.
http://www.rei.com/product/756357
The rest of the Planet Bike models:
http://ecom1.planetbike.com/headlights.html

Later,
Bill

masta

01-21-2009, 05:55 AM

BillR

01-21-2009, 03:02 PM

The one check I did on the stator it was showing 30V AC which is a bit lower than yours. While cranking I show approx. 4V at the stator. My battery shows approx. 12.5 at idle, 12.75 at much higher RPM. Once the headlight is turned on, it shows 12.25 and then drops at anything other than full rpm.

Thanks for checking yours, it definitely puts out far more than mine.

Thanks for the links to the lights, that is quite possibly the route I will take.

I'll try to get some pics up of my AT soon.
What size is your engine? If it's smaller, I wouldn't expect it to put out as many watts as a 200cc engine.
Still seems that you should be seeing 13 volts or better going to the battery.

Crazy thing just hit me.........
What wattage bulb are you running in the headlight :?:

I have tried a 35, 45 and a 55 watt bulb in mine. The 55 watt definitely pulls more juice. Currently running a 45/45 watt.
Bill

masta

01-21-2009, 11:44 PM

It's a 110cc. My friends 90cc Kymco runs at 13.8-14.2.

The bulb is only a 25W, it's barely enough to see at night, but it's better than nothing. 8)

BillR

01-23-2009, 06:28 PM

It's a 110cc. My friends 90cc Kymco runs at 13.8-14.2.

The bulb is only a 25W, it's barely enough to see at night, but it's better than nothing. 8)
That is the bulb I expected, so that's out.

Yours should be giving the same voltage as the 90cc.
Can you check the stator voltage on the 90cc and see if it matches yours?
If it does, that would point back to your regulator.
Bill