Vbike 250T Review (250T vs. V4SW) Lots O'Pics [Archive]

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KentuckyDonkey

04-23-2009, 12:16 PM

So...I ordered a Vbike 250T and 300 Monster, intending to replace the Vbike V4SW which I had sold (V4SW was awesome...but the fenders weren't big enough to keep the cow manure off of me, and it didn't have a provision for a decent way to mount a sturdy hitch ball). The bikes arrived on Monday. Had them dropped in my neighbor's driveway, as a tractor-trailer can not make it into my place.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0481.jpg

ASSEMBLY: The crates arrived undamaged! The 250T came more fully assembled out of the crate than the V4SW- therefore it was faster and easier to put together. I just needed to install the handlebars, rear rack, front bumper, front shocks into the upper shock mounts only (rest of front susp. including tie rods and hub assemblies were already all together)...put the wheels on, and a few little other things and it was ready to go. Half of the lug nuts were the wrong size- so right now, each wheel only has 2 nuts on it- Tim at Vbike is sending the missing ones.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0494.jpg

This being the third China bike I've assembled, I knew what to expect- so I checked the bowl drain screw on the carb- because they are often loose, and allow gas to come pouring out when you gas 'er up. This one was tight- so I was good to go! I put gas in the tank and heard the disconcerting sound of gas pouring on the ground! Quick! Where's the gas shut-off?!!!! Turns out, the fuel line was not plugged into the carb- but just flapping in the breeze! I connected it, turned the gas back on, and viola![sic], it fired right up!

Not having much gas, I just let it idle a few minutes, then drove it home and around my property once (I almost flipped it/fell off of it!! Scary! ).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0506.jpg

INITIAL IMPRESSIONS: O-K, the deal with the 250T is that it is supposed to be an updated, improved V4SW, with better fenders, bigger tires and a decent hitch mount. Turns out, while this 250T does have better fenders (Still not full utility-style fenders, but for as sport bike, these do work better than the ones on the V4SW and have kept the crap off of me so far), this one does NOT have bigger tires, nor does it have a better hitch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0507.jpg

If you look at various pics on other sites selling these bikes (Google "KMD ATV-57"), most of them do appear to have the upgrades. My theory is that Vbike has an older shipment of these bikes- i.e. ones that were earlier models and hence, do not have the upgrades.

Also, I thought this would have the same Lifan motor as the V4SW. While it does have a Lifan(I think...) it appears to be an earlier version- not the same one as on the V4SW (I loved the motor on the V4SW!!). This motor does not look as good and appears to have some mechanical differences.

Purely cosmetic: The green color on the 250T is definitely not as nice as the V4SW green (personal taste, I know) and the graphics on the 250T look retarded ("Flying Machine No.8" ?!! WTH is that?!)- I thought that the V4SW looked pretty nice with it's stock graphics. The 250T's coolant hoses are just covered with cheesey springs...whilst the V4SW's were covered with nice shiny flexible conduit.

250T: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0493.jpg

V4SW: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0458.jpg

V4SW: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0456-1.jpg

It appears that most of these Chinese bikes are a mish-mash of various parts and components- and that the manufacturers makes changes frequently, and you really don't know exactly what you are getting when you order them (even the importers don't know, I believe)- so be advised,l that even from the reputable importers/dealers, like Vbike, what you get may be different than what you see in the pics on their website/what they tell you/listed specifications.

Back to the 250T: This bike also does not have the nice performance exhaust that the V4SW had, and it is not as fast as the V4SW (It is still reasonably fast for a 250- but not a beast, like the V4SW- it just doesn't seem to have as much horsepower- even though on Vbike's site, they'd have you think that it is as fast/faster than the V4SW.

The rack on 250T is not as big nor as sturdy as the one on the V4SW.

The front A-arms and rear swing-arm on the V4SW were powdercoated and looked like the finish would last a good long time. These same components on the 250 are just painted...with what appears to be rather thin paint, and I foresee quick deterioration and rust/bad looks.

Pet peeve: The pod on the handlebars that contains the electronic shift indicator display is just snapped on- it does not have a screw to secure it, as the V4SW does- therefore, it is free to flop around somewhat, as it does not fit very tightly, and will indeed rotate on the bars. (These shift indicators are really a nice feature though- they spoil you!)

250T: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0509.jpg

V4SW: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0449.jpg

The MAJOR ISSUE though, is that the 250T does not shift all that well. The V4SW shifts silky smooth. With the 250T, it is very difficult to get into reverse from neutral or to downshift. Seems the tranny always wants to stick between gears.

250T: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0510.jpg

V4SW: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0452.jpg

Overall, while the V4SW was of top quality Japanese-quality build- the 250T seems to be a somewhat less quality. It is not really cheesey, like some Chinese bikes...but is definitely a downgrade from the V4SW- and considering that the 250T costs $100 more than the V4SW, it seems silly to pay more money for less bike.

ULTIMATELY: Even if you don't mind less bike for more money, I would not recommend the 250T because of it's poor transmission.

This review will be updated as I ride the 250T more- but ultimately, I will be selling it shortly. (I had bought this and the 300 Monster with the intention of seeing which one best suited my needs, and selling the other. I really miss my V4SW now. I'm thinking that getting splattered with goo from too-scant fenders may have been an acceptable price to pay for the awesome quality of the V4SW in a <$1300 bike!!)

300 "Monster" review coming soon!

The shed is getting a little crowded!:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Richiemagoo/SANY0517.jpg

katoranger

04-23-2009, 01:25 PM

Great initial review. You probably saved some buyers some time and helped make a decision.

I am wondering if adding some truck mudflaps to the stock V4SW would have helped cover the tires more.

Maybe the 300 monster will be the winner.

KentuckyDonkey

04-23-2009, 02:14 PM

I am wondering if adding some truck mudflaps to the stock V4SW would have helped cover the tires more.

.

Why didn't I think of that?!!!!!! I was thinking of maybe some sheetmetal...or sheet plastic (Be a hassle finding the appropriate stuff and then making it fit and look decent)- but darn! Your idea is simple and cheap!

I may just end up selling both of these bikes and getting another V4SW (if Tim gets 'em back in stock). The 300 Monster is O-K...but costs $700 more, which seems high for just the added convenience of full fenders and racks...and still no hitch. (And the 300, which in reality is a Tao Tao, is not up to the quality of build of the V4SW)

SpudRider

04-23-2009, 02:54 PM

...and viola![sic], it fired right up!...
I caught it! Your dry wit does not go unnoticed. ;) :lol:
...It appears that most of these Chinese bikes are a mish-mash of various parts and components- and that the manufacturers makes changes frequently, and you really don't know exactly what you are getting when you order them (even the importers don't know, I believe)- so be advised,l that even from the reputable importers/dealers, like Vbike, what you get may be different than what you see in the pics on their website/what they tell you/listed specifications...
That is superb advice that will help many potential buyers. Thank you for sharing the value of your experience. :)
... ULTIMATELY: Even if you don't mind less bike for more money, I would not recommend the 250T because of it's poor transmissionâ€¦
Thank you for another superbly written, thoughtful analysis, KD. As always, your photographs are superb. :)
...300 "Monster" review coming soon!â€¦
Like many others, I eagerly await another of your excellent reviews. Thank you. :)

Spud :)

Danthalis

04-23-2009, 03:12 PM

KentuckyDonkey

04-23-2009, 03:15 PM

I caught it! Your dry wit does not go unnoticed.

Spud :)

Thanks! You're the first person in a long time who's noticed that one! (I actually stole that from someone who says it like that unintentionally when reading aloud! :D )

And thanks for the kind words!

I have to do one other thing outside right now, then I may try and do a video review of the 300 Monster! (We'll see how it works out....I'm no David Hyde-Pierce(sp?) )

I really wish the tranny was better on this 250T- if it were, I'd give it pretty good marks. Even though it is not as good as the V4SW, it is not a piece of junk, either- it's actually a pretty cool bike....but it just seems silly to pay more, when one can have the better, silky-smooth shifting V4SW cheaper. (From what I'm seeing, that V4SW is the king of chinese bikes!I sure hope they keep making them- Tim says he's expecting more in soon...)

KentuckyDonkey

04-23-2009, 03:29 PM

Stupid work firewall won't let me see pictures... But thanks none the less for the review KD. You have saved me a giant heart break.

In any event just wanted to share an email I got back from vbike. I asked what the differences were for the v4sw vs the 250t and specifically if they came with the same engine. this was their response.

thank you ,250cc-t is the same v4sw ,just have bigger tire 23 and 22 inches we have in 5 diffirent color instock

Makes me worry that greed may be getting the best of them at vbike. Stuck with obviously an inferior bike they should have their supplier fix the problem, or at least let the customers know that what you see isn't what you're going to get.

Yeah, I wonder about that. When had Tim written to you? (I made him aware of the inaccuracies on Tuesday). Sometimes it may be a case of the manufacturers posting pics and leaving them up even after changes are made- or dealers having older units and being ignorant of changes, etc. But Tim is definitely aware of the issues with the 250T now- and I even sent him a link to this review.

When I was a kid, I worked briefly for an importer of Chinese plumbing supplies (actually, Taiwanese...which was part of China back then) and there was a lot of confusion over constant small changes on parts that were of the same model and part number. It seems the manufacturers make changes nilly-willy on a whim, and don't mention it, or tell you where the demarcation point is between an old batch and a new batch.

But it is clear that Tim has an older batch of these bikes (maybe it's just the green ones???)- If the 250T I received had the same motor/tranny as the V4SW, I would give it kudos and just note the other small differences.

Although the quality of these bikes (even this 250T) is not bad for the money paid......I think they'd have a much better reputation if the importers/dealers and manufacturers would get their acts together and make sure that people receive exactly what is represented when they place their order. Dilligence pays off!

Danthalis

04-23-2009, 03:50 PM

Man that would be GREAT to hear Tim's take on your situation. I was genuinely was planning on buying one of these bikes tomorrow, but now I've decided to wait for either another review, or Tim's response to you.

Vbike normally gets rave reviews for their product and customer service, I hope Tim takes the time to resolve these issues professionally and to both of your satisfactions. I really want to hear a happy ending to this because I have been proclaiming to everyone I know what a great company Vbike is.

That and I sold my v4sw :( heheheh and I need a replacement!

KentuckyDonkey

04-23-2009, 04:12 PM

Ah! We're both in the same boat, Dan- both being V4SW-less! (I knew i was going to be sorry that I sold it!!!)

Heh...I have some issues with the 300 Monster (discrepancies) that I'll mention in the review on that bike when I post it.

I've also been pimping Vbike to a lot of people. I just assumed from the V4SW experience that all of their bikes were of similar quality...but now i see that they are not.

Tim has been good to deal with thus far- but he really hasn't addressed these 250T issues at all (other than the missing lug nuts)- although I really haven't pushed the issue- and don't know if I will, as long as I can sell the bike and not lose anything, or even make a little on the deal like I did with the V4SW. But it will be interesting to see what is forthcoming.

Tim does seem to try really hard to make people happy- and I don't think I've seen one single complaint on all the internet about Vbike- and I know I'd be really disappointed if he turned out to be anything less than what we and everyone else is saying about him, because it seems that there are no other good Chinese internet dealers out there- you can't find one that isn't mired in complaints (unless of course they new...or using a new name...)

I'd say not to use my 250 experience as a rule though- as, like i said, I may not push the issue. if i can sell it for a decent ammount...no harm, no foul, I'll be happy. And I really don't want to push the issue if I'm going to sell it. My only reservation right now is the tranny...but maybe with a little use and some Rotella in the crankcase, that will change?

SpudRider

04-23-2009, 05:27 PM

...My only reservation right now is the tranny...but maybe with a little use and some Rotella in the crankcase, that will change?
After some indecently high prices, Shell Rotella T 5W-40 Synthetic motor oil is now only $19/gallon at Wal-Mart. :roll: This oil was as high as $23/gallon a few months back. I absolutely love this oil. The gearbox in my Zongshen Sierra 200GY-2 is very smooth; however, it shifts even more smoothly when the Rotella T 5W-40 Synthetic is bathing it. If you haven't done so already, you might want to try this oil. I just bought another gallon of the stuff two days ago. :) Gasoline prices are on the rise; I bet that motor oil prices are soon to follow. :( ;)

Spud :)

KentuckyDonkey

04-23-2009, 05:37 PM

Good idea, Spud, about stocking up on the earl before the prices go up again!!!

I've never used the synthetic- but now I'll have to try it...but not on the 250T, as it will likely not even be broken-in by the time I sell it.

Everyone: Here's a little video review of the 300 Monster. I'm not posting it in a seperate topic, because I'm going to do a regular written review (hopefully tonight...) and it kinda sucks (the vid...not the 300 M)...so it's just for your entertainment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veqG0txHJgA

Danthalis

04-23-2009, 07:04 PM

Just saw the pictures and had one last question about the 250T for ya KD. Did it come with hand guards and you chose to leave them off, or did it not come with them at all? (had them on all the pictures I've seen online, so just curious)

KentuckyDonkey

04-23-2009, 07:36 PM

Oh...yeah...ooopps! It did indeed come with handguards- I just chose to leave them off for now...plus, I can't figure out how the outboard ends attach to the handlebar ends!

Thanks for reminding me.

I was just going to take the 250T for a ride- warmed it up, started riding, and it started bogging down at less than half throttle!!!!

I suppose, this being an older unit, it probably had gel in the carb for shipping, and will now need to be taken off and cleaned out......iy! (It ran fine after I assembled it and next day....sat for 2 days...nopw this!)

This is the first actual driveability issue I've had with a China bike. I'm getting disgusted- this thing is a heap. All 250T's may not be this way...but they definitely slipped in an older unit here, and I think it is time to see what Tim will do about it.

KentuckyDonkey

04-23-2009, 08:09 PM

The drama continues....

Tim just informed me via email that he did indeed get a mixed shipment, with some new style and some older 250Ts!!!!

Of course, I got the older style.....

If I had gotten the newer style, which is more like the V4SW with the addition of better fenders, better hitch and bigger tires, this would have been the one I'd keep.

So it seems that my review is only relevent to the older model 250Ts. Trouble is, there seems to be no way to know which one you will receive if you order one.

SpudRider

04-23-2009, 09:10 PM

KentuckyDonkey

04-23-2009, 10:19 PM

By-the-way- anyone know how one adjusts the front drum brakes on these things? Yes...the brakes on this one SUCk, too! (The cables are properly adjusted)

What a freakin' POS!

fishman10

04-23-2009, 11:39 PM

on some of the smaller quads i bought for my kid I used cheap plastic mudflaps fom pep boys,,cut to fit and slid into place between the fenders and foot boards using longer bolts and zip ties at the footboard.On larger atvs I've used the plastic sheeting from old above ground pools,people throw it out all the time,and youcan heat it and bend to fit ,it is usually blue,but with a can of krylon fusion takes paint well.

KentuckyDonkey

04-24-2009, 12:10 PM

Good ideas, Fishman! I read somewhere too, that someone bought an $8 garbage can at Wal*Mart and cut plastic from that! I don't know why I didn't think of that! I'm usually very innovative and known for "thinking outside the box".

Back to the 250T: Another way to distinguish the later model from the old: The older ones (like mine) don't have the cross-shaped hub caps (that cover the lug nuts) and which are color coordinated to match the body color. The old ones just have the black rubber center caps.

But of course, just because you see a pic of the newer model (as on Vbike's site) does not mean that that is what you will receive.....

I'd bet that the NEWER model 250T is great- as it should be just like the V4SW only with a few upgrades.

Danthalis

04-24-2009, 03:14 PM

SpudRider

04-24-2009, 04:37 PM

You know, after seeing your pictures, I can honestly say I like the look of the V4SW better. MAybe it would be different in person, but the V4SW seemed like a get down to business sport beast, whereas the 250T doesn't seem to have that flare to it. I am so temped to roll the dice and order one, luckily we got some news bills in so I have to put it off for a few weeks anyways. Hopefully by then vbike will get their poop in a group. MAybe if I ask Tim if he will promise me a newer version.... well if I do get one, I'll let you all know.

Thanks again KD for the review!
Personally, based upon KD's detailed report, I would not order the 250T from Vbike unless Tim promised to send me the newer model. If Tim got a product from China that is not built as advertised, he probably should not ship it to his customers. He should resolve the matter with his supplier, and advertise the older version as another model. ;)

Spud :)

KentuckyDonkey

04-24-2009, 05:14 PM

You know, after seeing your pictures, I can honestly say I like the look of the V4SW better. MAybe it would be different in person, but the V4SW seemed like a get down to business sport beast, whereas the 250T doesn't seem to have that flare to it. I am so temped to roll the dice and order one, luckily we got some news bills in so I have to put it off for a few weeks anyways. Hopefully by then vbike will get their poop in a group. MAybe if I ask Tim if he will promise me a newer version.... well if I do get one, I'll let you all know.

Thanks again KD for the review!
Personally, based upon KD's detailed report, I would not order the 250T from Vbike unless Tim promised me to send me the newer model. If Tim got a product from China that is not built as advertised, he probably should not ship it to his customers. He should resolve the matter with his supplier, and advertise the older version as another model. ;)

Spud :)

Yes! It's not worth the gamble. The V4SW or the [supposedly even better] newer 250T is a lot of bike for the money....but this older 250T is a piece of crap.

KentuckyDonkey

04-27-2009, 01:53 AM

Another observation about this old-model 250T: It seems very unstable compared to the V4SW. I almost flipped it the very first time I rode it- and even though it is not as fast as the V4SW, I find myself rarely going over half throttle, as the irregularities of my pasture which were smoothed out by the V4SW, feel very destabilizing on this- like it's going to bounce off of every little thing.

jason

04-27-2009, 11:00 AM

KentuckyDonkey

04-27-2009, 11:51 AM

is your width the same as the the v4sw.cause when i phoned tim about a month ago he mentioned a new model,the "T".but when he put up his write up in it i believe it has the same width as the v4sw.he told me it would be more stable cause it is wider and has bigger tires.im a liitle shy now about ordering it if i cant get 100% garantee im getting the newer style and it is wider.

I believe the rear is a little narrower than the V4SW's. Front seems to be about the same. I believe this old-style 250T has a shorter wheelbase/overall length and sits higher- that and the narrower rear add up to a very unstable combination! (And I'm not talking about fancy riding....just basic transportation around my farm. The V4SW I could ride anywhere, and felt very safe even at top speed. This thing...I've basically learned that I have to ride it extremely conservatively on even faitly smooth ground, as the least little change in direction seems to become amplified)

Basically, I'm not comfortable riding this at much over about 15MPH. Whereas I loved getting the V4SW up to 40-45MPH.

I'd be curious to see how the newer 250T is (the one I was supposed to get)- but I still don't know if it would be up to the quality of the V4SW, as the V4SW is made by a different company.

I'm really wondering what's up at Vbike. Tim says he's out of the V4SWs, yet on the site, it says "in stock" and lets you add them to your cart. Seems that only one other dealer has the V4SW (I forget what they call it...), so I'm wondering if they aren't discontinued? (I never should have sold mine!!)

jason

04-28-2009, 04:09 PM

what does tim say about this?
is ti i've got your money and live with this older style atv

KentuckyDonkey

04-28-2009, 06:21 PM

what does tim say about this?
is it i've got your money and live with this older style atv

Heh...pretty much!

He has tried to make some very minor efforts- i.e. he said "send back the tires and I'll send the bigger ones" - but that wouldn't help much, as not only would they cost a fortune to ship and put the bike out of commission for a few weeks, but I'd then need to change the gearing, too! -And that doesn't address the other issues, like the different motor (He's trying to convince me it's the same motor...I'll post pics here and see what you guys think!)...and the lack of a sturdier hitch (I asked him on the phone before ordering if this had the sturdier hitch, and he assured me it did...but of course it didn't)

Have some other issues as well, plus issues with the 300 Monster...and the little efforts that he has made to address the problems are not quite enough- especially considering I've spent $4500 with him since February. I would have rather appreciated it if he knew the actual products he was selling, and gave truthful answers (or simply an "I'm not sure") when consulted pre-purchase...rather than telling you one thing, and assuring that what one orders will be "exactly what is shown in the pictures on the website", and then when it comes, it is not.

I spoke to my credit card company, and they said that I could dispute part of the charge, seeing that the bikes were not as advertised- but I'm saving that as a last resort- I'd rather work it out ammiccably if possible.

Here is one of Tim's emails- only addressing some of the problems which I had mentioned in the email to which he is replying:

>>>>i dont see any problem here richard ,you asking for more parts ,we ship it to you , 250cc-T old or new model they all the same ,if you say your atv with smaller tire ,send these tire back we replace it , same thing as 300cc monster ,rack is not line up send it back ,we replace it <<<<

And here is my response:

>>>>>Tim, It's not just the tires or the rack- are you going to send me the newer style motor for the 250T too? Or the axle housing with the new-style trailer hitch? And how much is it going to cost me to ship all this stuff back?(several hundred dollars!), not to mention all the labor I'd have to do and that the ATVs would be out of commission for weeks. This shouldn't be, seeing as it was not my fault that I received an older model 250T than the one pictured on your website/described by you on the phone. You screwed up (I realize, it was probably not your fault, but rather the manufacturer's- but none-the-less, it is your responsibility to make it good for your customer).

I've given you much positive publicity on the internet and amongst my friends and neighbors locally, based on the good experience i had with you on the V4SW purchase a few months back- and I've purchased 3 bikes from you and intended to buy more in the near future- and I'm not a fussy customer- I know that certain issues are to be expected with Chinese vehicles, and I am O-K with that...but getting something that is substantially different than what I ordered- that is quite a different story, and all I am asking for is a little compensation so that we can both come out of this matter in a way which will be fair to both me and you., and can continue to do business<<<<<

I'm really getting disgusted- Gonna try and sell these, and I think I'll just forget about ATVs for now :( (Don't want to pay the price for the Jap ones, especially as seeing that they seem to purposely make everything inaccessable, so that you're more likely to give in and take 'em to the dealer for service.)

warrior91

04-28-2009, 10:35 PM

Mabey after some more break in the shifting will be less notchy.
Getting rid of a well running bike because you got dirty seems not to be a wise idea... :wink:
.
.
.
I know all about sport bikes and cow pastures...well experienced.
The price you pay for broadsliding is sh!tspray.

KentuckyDonkey

04-28-2009, 11:58 PM

Heh yep, yep, yep- never should've sold the V4SW. I just thought being it was so good, one of the "new & improved" (and more expensive) models would be perfection. Boy, was I wrong! (Well, maybe Iffin I woulda actually been sent the bike that actually pictured and described on their website.....)

Cal25

04-29-2009, 09:28 AM

KentuckyDonkey

04-29-2009, 10:28 AM

I'm kinda surprised that Tim would not be aware of the differences between the bikes. When I went and picked up my bike from him last year, He insisted on opening the crate up and doing an inspection before we put it on my truck. He verified all the fasteners were there. Luckily he spotted a missing bolt for the handle bar clamp. Then he re-strapped the crate and I was on my way.

I feel that he had to see what you had in the crate based on my experience.

I can't figure Tim out. He insists that he "checks them all before they leave", yet I had to send him pictures of mine to prove the differences. (Funny- everything I tell him, he insists that it's not so- and I have to send him pics before he'll believe it).

Then he tells me that he inadvertantly got a mixed shipment of 250T's that contained both the old and new models....then he tells me that the only difference between the two is the size of the tires (yet the bike pictyured on his site has the newer motor, better hitch, different graphics, etc.). And of course, when I asked about all of this on the phone prior to ordering, it was "exactly what you see in the pictures...".

Tim seemed like a nice guy- but I now have to conclude that he is a BS artist.

This bike actually says Sunl on the emissions label- which means it was manufactured for Sunl (Sunl is just an importer, like Vbike)- so how did Tim end up with this? Must have been one of their rejects or a stray left over at the end of a run.

dsrt4

04-30-2009, 08:50 AM

Gosh.... What a freakin Nightmare!

I Think I would take detailed photos of all the issues with the bike and
then email Vbike and tell him Flat out to Send the correct bike or your calling the Credit Card Company ASAP. Discussion time has ended....He needs to send out the correct bike Right now....

If he hesitates even one day, dispute the charges that day and send all the offending photos and photo's of what bike were supposed to receive to the Credit Card Company. Let him know this is your intention... Send his emails to you to them as well.

You definitely have shown more restraint than I have. I'm a loose cannon.

I think I would have just rented a truck for the weekend and told him to expect me there to swap out for the correct bike and a partial refund to cover the rental and fuel expenses.

This all kinda reminds me of my Deal with the (Semi) local American Lifan Dealer. If I knew he had another lf110gy-3 in stock I would have been waiting for him to show up with the Sheriff to swap mine out.

Thankfully American Lifan *Finally* went to bat for me and got it straightened out.

This Guy needs to make it happen for you Immediately if not Sooner!!!
Otherwise he can have a NASTY 8 page thread to look forward to and I will gladly bump it up everyday....

KentuckyDonkey

04-30-2009, 11:00 AM

Thanks for the encouragement and the advice, Dsrt4!!

Sounds like a good course of action!

I think I will do just as you described. I'm trying to be reasonable and patient and all that- and giving Tim every opportunity to make things right....but ultimately he doesn't want to do anything more than exchange a few minor parts- which will not solve the problems...and which will add to my expense.

I'd like to see him stand up and make things right. I know that it's a sticky situation when shipping heavy items is involved- but ultimately he should be more careful about what he ships out, and about the pics he puts up on his website and aboiut answering pre-purchase questions- and should make things right when he screws up.

Heck, I did nothing wrong. I asked a lot of questions ("It has the same motor as the V4SW? It has a better hitch? Bigger tires...??? Tim:"Yes boss! It the newer V4SW...trust me, you will like")and was yessed to death- and I looked carefully at the pcis on the site- It's not my fault that Tim ships me a model that is different/older than the one he described.

It's just so disappointing after the good experience i had with the V4SW!

There is another poster on this forum who has also had a terrible experience with Tim (I thought I was doing well avoiding the model that he purchased!), but he seems to be keeping it quiet publicly. I wish he'd also tell his story on the forum, as it might save others a ton of trouble down the road. (Since I seem to be the only complainer here so far, my story may not carry too much weight with other potential customers...but people might take notice if there were two people saying the same thing! -and this poor guy's story is worse than mine!)

And I seem to have gotten the double whammy- see my 300 Monster review if you haven't already!

KentuckyDonkey

04-30-2009, 11:16 AM

Oh and by-the-way,

I would like to appologize publicly for promoting Vbike in the past!

I sure hope that no one has had a bad experience after dealing with them based on my past enthusiasm.

They do sell some good models....and they are indeed better than a lot of the other internet sellers of Chinese bikes- so I'm not saying that if anyone orders from them they will be gypped....but, as with most internet dealers of Chinese bikes...you are rolling the dice when you order- and what you see, isn't always what you get. My recent experiences have proven that when it comes to major issues, Vbike does not resolve them- even for a good, repeat customer.

Danthalis

04-30-2009, 03:14 PM

I'm right there with you KD, the first time around dealing with Tim and the V4SW was fantastic. I think it's terrible what's going on, and at first I hard a hard time believing it, but now my tune has changed as well.

I was also told it was the same engine, better bike. After a serious and thorough search I have found out for sure that none of the KMD-ATV-57 old or new have the same engine as the V4SW. They have the same paint (green and gold) but it is for sure a different engine, different hoses, different style.

The fact that they are both a 250cc displacement does NOT make them the same engine Tim!

I was fortunate enough to be able to buy back my V4SW (well heh after my neighbor lost the screw to the clutch handle, the screws to the radiator fan, and the muffler bracket in the front actually sheered off the frame...) in almost the same condition.

In any event yeah, contact your card company ASAP, you've got plenty enough evidence to win the case. Good luck and I hope the best for you.

kczukiman

04-30-2009, 07:18 PM

KentuckyDonkey

04-30-2009, 07:48 PM

Awww...thanks, Dan! It makes this whole experience a little more tolerable knowing that yous[sic] guys are pulling for me!

Wow! I just checked Vbikes' site- looks like Tim has updated the site with pictures of the actual bikes that he has!! This is good for potential future buyers....but bad for me, in so far as proving my case!

At least maybe Tim will post actual pics of his bikes in the future- instead of the stock manufacturers pics.

As far as the case goes, it looks like it's just going to be my word now against Tim's. At least I have his email admitting that there is an old style and a new style....

dsrt4

04-30-2009, 07:58 PM

So what if he changed the pics??? There are at least 20 other guys that can vouch seeing the other pics on his site..

MAKE IT RIGHT TIM!!!! You have Customers here that are sticking up for you and some that you are leaving hanging.

Guess which ones are going to Bitch more...............

You should have a Truck backing up to your dock right now to get this Man's correct bike sent to him..

KentuckyDonkey

04-30-2009, 08:01 PM

I understand your frustration KD.But I do have to say after purchasing six different bikes fro Tim I have had no issues with him.I just received my scooter a month ago and it had a crack in the trunk.I just took a picture and a week later I had a new one + I didn't have to send the old one back.
I'm not defending him its just that for an online dealer and I have delt with a few VBike has been the best that I have delt with.
I hope you get your issuss resolved to you likeing.

Amazing! Even to just straighten out the different-size tire issue, he wanted me to send the tires back before he'd exchange them (even after I sent him pictures of all 4, showing clearly the size markings on the side.

And even when I had the issue with my V4SW's rear brakes not working- I had to send the old system back...which he then tried to repair and sent back to me- and it still didn't work...then he finally shipped me out a brand new one only after i sent him the tracking number proving that I had remailed the old (un)repaired one back to him again.

I wonder why he's treating me like this? I never had any problems with him prior to this- and our phone conversations and emails were always friendly and pleasant. Strange.

I know he does seem to have an excellent reputation- and I still think that he is better than most of the other internet dealers. Maybe he's just a scatterbrain and doesn't remember what he tells us on the phone.

...and it's not like I'm some fussy customer who always has problems with everything. Quite the opposite- I do my research and usually get exactly what I've bargained for and never have a problem. And on the rare occasion that I have a problem with something or someone, it can almost always be resolved ammiccably. So I don't know why Tim is giving me such a hard time- especially after all the good publicity I've given him on the net and amongst my friends and neighbors- I had nothing but praise for him and his products before this incident- and as long as he'd describe the 250T accurately, it's not such a bad bike...but it's just wrong of him to say that it's the same as the V4SW.

KentuckyDonkey

04-30-2009, 08:06 PM

Hehe...good ol' Dsrt4!

Ya know, funny thing- I even gave Tim the URL to this thread, hoping that he'd reply here; and that maybe it would help us to resolve the problem without going to a third party.

Seems like he's not interested though.

dsrt4

04-30-2009, 08:13 PM

What are you trying to Convey with this Video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfuDNHUhff0

KentuckyDonkey

04-30-2009, 09:05 PM

Oh...that's a clip from an old movie that I posted for a friend of mine. I find the political-incorrectness of it hilarious. (You'd really have to see the movie to appreciate the clip though- as earlier, the black guy (whom my black frtiend refers to as a "black-power mow-mow") was acting all gung-ho around an elderly white man, and even chiding his wife for "working for whitey"- so he is sort of getting his comeupance there, as the thugs proceed to pick on him,, as they do to everyone else on the train, also)

I was actually terrified the first time i saw that movie- (bear in mind that I Lived in New York City in the 70's and 80's and rode the subways often)- it is really an intense and terrifying drama about these 2 drunken thugs who terrorize everyone aboard the train.

If you ever want to see it, it can be had cheaply, as it is in the public domain- it is "The Incident" starring Tony Musante, Beau Bridges (debut role), Marin Sheen, Ed McMahon, Ruby Dee- from 1967. A lost classic.

dsrt4

04-30-2009, 09:21 PM

I just saw the movie a few weeks ago on Youtube. Someone has it in several parts.

I forgot how much of a Cogsugger the black guy was...

KentuckyDonkey

04-30-2009, 10:02 PM

That short clip at the end was from The Taking Of Pelham 1-2-3....another great movie. (Although these are kind of "modern" for me...I generally only watch stuff from the 30's and 40's)

bex

05-02-2009, 01:46 PM

SpudRider

05-02-2009, 02:05 PM

KentuckyDonkey

05-02-2009, 04:02 PM

KD:

Looking at purchasing one of these Quads shortly, the KMD ATV-57 version with the flying machine sticker. Will debadge those stickers immediately upon receipt, but specifically, I want to know how bright are the headlights and what bulbs do they use?

Thanks bud, and good review, I hope your notchy transmission got resolved, I also found the Rotella 15-40 oil helped smooth out all of my Zongshen Sierras, hope it helps you as well.

Bex,

The tranny has indeed improved quite a bit with the Rotella! Still a little hard getting into reverse sometimes...but otherwise, it's pretty good.

I'll check the headlights for ya tonight (I tried 'em once already- but after having messed with 3 bikes lately, I want to make sure I give you accurate info). The lights on the V4SW were superb (even for a Mr. Magoo like me)- if these are the same, they should be good.

I believe I've seen this ATV-57 a couple of hundred bucks cheaper elsewhere- I forget where, but you might want to Google, then research the company to see if they're decent, and save a few hundred bucks.

Might want to see if you can get the newer model, too ("KMD Moto sports" graphics instead of flying machine), with the better hitch, front A-arm protectors, etc.

If you order from Vbike, let me know if yours comes with the bigger tires. Tim swears that all the others that he has does have the big tires- don't understand why I got gypped (and why he wants me to send my tires back firstg- making my bike immobile for a few weeks, before he'll exchange them- since this is not a warranty issue, but rather some kinda screw-up on his end. He should indeed send me the correct tires, and then pay the shipping for me to return these.

I am also still having carb issues. I have the carb off now, and will take it apart tonight. Gave me trouble from the second time I used the bike.

This 250T is not the worst China bike out there...but in my opinion, you can do better. I think ATVdiscounters has the V4SW for a few bucks less than what Vbike gets for this 250T (I think they call it the ATV 19-5). ATVdisc doesn't have the best reputation...but to get the V4SW, which is vastly suiperior to this 250T (Newer motor, better exhaust, more stable, etc.) I personally would take the chance. (In fact, if they still have them if/when I can sell these, I may just get one from them myself)

Danthalis

05-03-2009, 06:41 PM

KD:

Looking at purchasing one of these Quads shortly, the KMD ATV-57 version with the flying machine sticker.

Oh Bex, if you do get one please be sure to let us know how yours turns out. Want to see a happy face on a 250cc T owner (not that I want KD to be singled out for being screwed, but would like to hear another review of one)

Also, maybe a little off topic, but can anyone suggest a battery replacement for my V4SW? Seems my neighbor has crashed the battery that came with it.

KentuckyDonkey

05-03-2009, 08:47 PM

Heheh...admittedly, I might be a little prejudiced about the 250T, since it was not as described, and since it had to fill the shoes...err...uh...tires of the V4SW.

If I put aside the issues of it not being as described, and just rate it for what it is, it's not a bad bike. Under this scenario, my two major complaints with it would be that a)It is the least stable of all bikes I have ever ridden. 2)[sic]It just is not as fast/doesn't have the power of the V4SW (which was also a 250).

Bear in mind that I did fix the high-end bogging-down today. I removed the carb (Luckily, I had to remove the intake manifold for clearance, and discovered that the lower, hard-to-get-at bolt holding it to the engine was not very tight- may have been contributing to the problem); took the carb apart and cleaned it out (there was something insiode that resembled a fly's wing!); adjusted the float to not shut off the gas supply quite so soon; and reset the mixture (It came with the mixture screw turned out about 5x!!!- I guess this was to try and compensate for the above mentioned defects...which it did not do very well).

Reinstalled with the mixture set at 2x; all clean and bolts properlyu tightened (Turns out, I did not have to adjust the throttle slide needle- it was already set to 1 notch from full-rich)- She started right up and sounded almost as good as the V4SW- except that the V4SW had a better, freer-flowing exhaust.

Test-rode, and, you-reeka![sic]- no more bogging! Sounds great. But even so, it's still hard to get enough power to get into 4th gear on level-ground/slight uphill, whereas the V4SW not only got into 4th easily (and would FLY!) but left me looking for a 5th. Apparently my research on this engine is accurate- that it puts out 5HP less than the V4SW's engine- a 25% difference.

What I like about this bike: It is very nimble and "light" to ride- if only the stability were better, so that one could take advantage of the easy handling. It's fun to ride....but I find myself looking for that extra speed at the top end, which the V4SW had plenty of.

At least it sounds good and runs like a Swiss watch now since I played with the carb.

(((Bex, I will be checking the headlights shortly- it was pouring last night...and just started again now...but I have my rain suit jacket right here already....)))

KentuckyDonkey

05-03-2009, 09:44 PM

O-K, Bex,

Checked the headlights: The brights are good and bright- very nice.

The low beams don't work at all!!!

...and the brake light is always on when you have the lights turned on!!

This is wearying me! I seem to have succumbed to the typical-Chinese-junk syndrome that I've heard so many others warn about.

I can't believe that the Kandi/V4SW was so good and problem free, for the entire month I had it- as well as fast and stable...while this 250T and 300 Monster have more problems than I can count and are not even two weeks old yet!

My advice to everyone is to only consider the Chinese bikes that have been shown by others to be of good quality- avoid the ones that have constant problems reported.

SpudRider

05-03-2009, 11:04 PM

...My advice to everyone is to only consider the Chinese bikes that have been shown by others to be of good quality- avoid the ones that have constant problems reported.
That says it all, in a nutshell! ;)

Thank you for telling the truth about your experiences with these quads.

Spud :)

KentuckyDonkey

05-10-2009, 06:31 PM

BTW., I think I forgot to mention: The 250T does have a vented gas cap. (At least this one does...yours may vary....)

KentuckyDonkey

05-25-2009, 04:01 PM

Quick update:

Haven't been able to sell either of these Vbikes thus far- and I've had them for well over a month now.

I find myself riding the 250T much more often than the 300 Monster- It's a fun ride, and is light and nimble. Even though it is painfully obvious that is about 20% less powerful than the V4SW...at least it is a quiet bike. (A freer-flowing exhaust, and 30mm carb would make this thing fly- but I really don't need to go that fast)

This 250T has proven to be quite reliable thus far. After the carb cleaning, it has not given me any problems. All in all, I'd still buy this bike for my 27 acres, rather than springing for comparable Jap bike at well over twice the price, or even over a used Jap.

Sucks that it costs more than the V4SW though...and Tim should not sell it as an "upfated V4SW" when in fact, it is a downgrade at a higher price.

But all in all, I'm enjoying this bike...just wish I could sell the 300 Monstrosity!!!!!

donslookin

06-19-2009, 05:17 PM

Hey KD and all you fellow riders.. Well to start off, I would like to let you all know I haven't forgot about all you and all your input on bikes. And I am sorry for not getting back to all of you after getting my V4SW back in April. Well I think I posted that it came Via R&L freight, and had problems with the condition of the bike,,but a lil time and know how, got it all fixed up and have gone riding quite a bit. Also have watched my g/f flip it twice while hill climing and have broke a few bolts, other than that, it really is a great ATV. As some of you know, I live in western Washington and it rains here all the time, also the vast amount of "woods" make it a great place to ride. I also have a few other bikes aswell. And now that school is out for the summer, I should have some pics for all you to view. I will post them as soon as I can, mind you that the bike will be dirty, lol..

lonezuk

07-25-2009, 10:56 AM

How long does it take to hear back from the dealer (Tim) ?

How is the plastic body holding up ?

Have you experienced any front end looseness ?

How much wider is the front track fron the rear ?

I hear that sport bikes have a wider front end, but I am not sure about it.;

lonezuk

07-25-2009, 10:58 AM

What year is bike, what was on the paper work ?

KentuckyDonkey

07-25-2009, 12:42 PM

Lonezuk,

To answer your questions:

Getting in touch with Tim(the dealer) is not a problem- They answer the phone. If you email him, he gets back to you very fast, also (he's usually on till about midnight). And the few times I've needed parts exchanged under warranty, he shipped them out quickly (after rfeceiving my old ones).

The only complaint I have with him, is that no matter how many questions you ask before purchasing...you can't trust the answers you get. I don't think he is purposely lying though...I think rather that he sometiomes doesn't know what exactly is in the boxes- as it seems with these Chinese manufacturers, even the importers don't know exactly what they are getting..or they unknowingly get a mixed shipment. He should be more careful and take more care to find out real answers to specific questions. You can't help but like the guy though!

Thankfully, there have been no issues with the plastic body. Then again, I'm a pretty gentle rider. I don't anticipate the body being a problem though- it's not cheesey or anything...to me, it seems just as good as the plastic on the Jap bikes.

No looseness in the front-end so far- I've got about 50 miles on the 250T so far.... I'm very sensitive to steering issues- be it with cars or anything- I loike a good, tighht front-end....and I have no complaints with the 250T in that area. (In fact, I have to say, it handles really well- that's the thing I like best about this bike)

The front is wider- haven't measured, but I'd guess about 4 inches wider than the back overall. Haven't been able to sell this bike...so I may get a set of spacers for the rear, to make the bike more stable, as it is rather tipsy. (My biggest complaint with this model).

It is a 2008 model. (Bought in April of 09 from dealer)

Any other questions, feel free to ask.

KentuckyDonkey

08-29-2009, 02:48 AM

Final thoughts on the 250T:

Well....I finally sold it. Even made a few bucks on it, after putting about 60 miles on it.

O-K, my overall impression: It is not a bad bike for the price. It's best feature is the way it handles- very light and nimble.

If you're thinking of upgrading from a V4SW...the 250T is not an upgrade- it's a downgrade- but if you're just looking for an ATV for <$1400, this is still probably the best bike for that price that you will find.

Had it for 4 months. No issues, other than initially needing to clean out the carb, recalibrate it and re-adjust the float. It always started right up, and the tranny problem I had mentioned initially cleared up after a little riding and using the Rotella oil.

I sold it to a nice young man, and I think he will be happy with it.

Oh..one thing: As mentioned previously- the front brakes were pretty much worthless. They appeared to be the same brakes as on the V4SW, but the ones on the V4SW worked good- as good as can be expected for drums. But these on the 250T, even after I tried adjusting them, just never had that much stopping power. Anyone else have that problem with this model?

eflyersteve

08-29-2009, 10:49 AM

My son's (ok - we both ride it a lot) 250T front brakes are pretty pathetic. You can tell they are helping, but not enough to haul it down from top speed very quickly. I suppose the 23" tires don't help much. I'm betting that these brakes are a take off of a much smaller ATV where they probably work fine.