My 2005 Ninja 250 Project

[SpeedSouth]

If you've read my "mistake" thread, then you already know I bought another project last weekend. It's a 2005 Ninja 250 with only 277 miles. I paid $1000 for it, and as you'll see in the following pictures even a bike with just a few miles can be an adventure.

Here's a few pictures to see what I'm working with...

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1269.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1265.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1266.jpg


After I got it unloaded and into my garage, I drained and then removed the fuel tank.

This is what I found...

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1291.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1295.jpg

Here you see the inside of the airbox boots that lead into the carbs..
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1301.jpg

The carbs didn't look too bad, but there is some gunk in there, which looks to be roasted air filter.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1304.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1314.jpg


As you can see in the pics, the right side looks to have the most crud, and when I pulled the plugs, the right plug looked to be oil fouled. That is, black and wet/slimy looking (not really wet). The left plug looks nearly new.

Now, several little clues tell me these carbs have been removed before, like the mixture screw caps having been removed, and the mixture needles set at different specs. One side seated completely. I also know the plugs have been changed, as they are Autolite brand. They will be replaced with NGK on Monday.

I pulled the bowls from the carbs, removed the jets and sprayed carb cleaner into all the places I could see and made sure all the little bits of (filter?) gunk were removed.

The pictures above show that I removed the partially melted airbox. I decided the best option was to simply go to pod filters. I ordered up a set of EMGO pods and put a breather filter in place today.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1319.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1329.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1323.jpg


After putting the essential stuff back into place, I put a little fresh fuel into the tank and fired it up. She starts pretty easy now and idles fine, but as soon as I give it any throttle, it stalls out.

I added a good bit of Seafoam and more fresh fuel in case I missed something in the carbs that can be cleared with a little time and fuel flow. I will pull the carbs and go through them again though, if it doesn't clear up some time tomorrow.

I plan to check and adjust the valves as well as sync the carbs, but the first schedule for this procedure is at 500 miles, so I can't imagine those things as being the culprit for my current problem.


Anyone have any other ideas as to why the bike stalls out or would everyone agree that it's most likely a bit of gunk still hiding in the carbs?

I know that I'll probably have to rejet for the pod filters. Could that be the reason for the stalling?


Overall, I'm still pretty happy with what I have here. No regrets. 8)

[katoranger]

I bought an 82 750 Virago. Got it running after it sat a couple years.

It did the same thing until I installed the stock air filter back into place.

My guess is that the pods are leaning it out too much. Try choking it alittle and see if it revs.

Allen

[AZ200cc]

Wow What a mess, But You'' get it going. What the heck melted it is what I wonder.

[TeamCheap]

Did the fuel melt it ??

I was just listening to a radio talk show and they were talking about how boats were having trouble with some fuels as it was melting the plastic gas tanks.

[SpeedSouth]

I was guessing it was the result of starting fluid and a backfire through the carbs, but I don't really know. I was quite shocked to find melted stuff like that on a bike that otherwise looks basically brand new.

The choke does get it reved up to 4-5k rpm, but any throttle input stalls it out. The stock airbox isn't really an option. I could get an unmelted box, but IMO the hassle of putting it back in is more trouble than jetting.

I would love to have kept it all stock, but I've wrestled w/ airboxes in the past. No thanks. :(


I'm about to pull it apart again now and see if I can find anything else hiding in the carbs.

[AZ200cc]

does it have the plastic intake tube from the carb to the intake, Maybe they got damaged and are sucking air.....I'm really reaching here but hell why not :lol:

[SpeedSouth]

The filter pods mount directly on the carbs, so there's not much there to leak, although I do wish the pods fit a little better. I think I'll try to get a set of the Uni-Pods to try as well.

On the up side, I got it fired up yesterday and she seemed to be more responsive to throttle input. It's not right, yet, but it's better than it was on Saturday.

I decided to run some clear tubing to the carb to eliminate the possibility of the tank, petcock or factory filter causing problems with the fuel flow. I decided to go ahead and empty the tank again and let it dry completely. I will flush it out really good and may even use a liner if I find much crud coming out.


I tried shimming the needles with washers, but the needles were getting hung, not falling all the way down into position as they should. I am seriously considering a jet "kit" that includes needles with clips and slots, like those on the China bikes, to make the adjustments easier and more precise.

This kit is highly recommended by the gurus at the 250 riders club (C30) - http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prodk13_14.html

It's a bit expensive, but it includes everything I'll need.



Thanks for all the input guys. Every idea helps. :)

[katoranger]

I think that the UNI filters are a bit more restrictive than K&N filters. They may give you better results.

Allen

[SpeedSouth]

That's part of the reason I went with the EMGO filters, avoiding the "high flow" K&N. I think maybe the UNI's have a better fit on the flange of the carbs though, so that's why I'm considering the change.

Not to mention, I can buy the EMGO & Uni's for less than one set of K&N filters.
Oh, wait...I guess I did mention that after all...lol

[knothead]

So did you take the carbs apart and clean them? From the looks of the airbox, I'd take the carbs all the way down and clean/rebuild them with new o-rings. Check the diaphragms, a hole on one can make the bike run like you described. I'd check the float levels too, some can be checked by attaching a clear tube to the bowl drain and checking the level against a mark on the side of the carb.
Try syncing the carbs first. Here's a link for a homemade manometer, I made one and it works well.

http://www.komar.org/faq/manometer/

And a good walk trough on how to do it.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/motorcycle_carb_sync/index.html

I really, really just want to see you get that bike on the road. I wish that I could score on like you did! I don't know why I want one, but a baby Ninja would be a nice bike to own.

[AZ200cc]

If it melted the tank and other stuff it could have done damage inside the carbs....Time for some close scrutiny

[SpeedSouth]

Thanks again for the input guys. :)


I think I have a pretty good handle on the situation now. I haven't done much this past week, but the one thing I did do was get the tank completely empty and pull the petcock. The straws on the petcock and the intake screens on those straws are pretty nasty. There is deffinately some bits of rust still in the tank.

I will have to rinse the tank completely and may have to seal it w/ Kreem (or similar). As well as cleaning the petcock, straws and screens.

The idea to sync the carbs is a good one, and once I get the tank in shape to flow clean fuel without any problems, I will sync the carbs. I actually have a 'slack-tube yardstick' manometer that I made for the 07 250, and it is still hanging on the wall in the garage, ready to be put to use.

I went ahead and ordered the Factory Pro jet kit, which arrived today. I will install the new jets and needles when I pull the carbs the next time, but I hope to have it running better before then.

The carbs themselves are quite clean right now. I was inside of them several times myself, but as I mentioned before, they had already been cleaned. They weren't brown or green or the least bit dirty when I looked at them the very first time...with the exception of those little bits of melted air filter that can be seen in the pictures I posted previously. The carbs were certainly not too dirty to function correctly, but I did mention the different mixture settings, so it wasn't allowing the bike to run correctly, when it was able to run on that rusty fuel.


So, just to recap...I think once the tank is clean and flowing, the carbs are synced and I eventually check/adjust the valves, the bike will run pretty good. At that point I will start tuning the carbs w/ the jet kit to compensate for the extra air flow.


I will post pics of the cruddy petcock after I pull the pics from the camera and 'process' them for posting. :)

[AZ200cc]

Well worth the effort, The bike is clean....Keep us updated.

[SpeedSouth]

Will do. :)

I went ahead and stopped by a shop today (any excuse to ride between rain storms) and got the Kreem kit. It includes - A) Wash/Cleaner, B) Conditioner and C) Tank Liner. I considered other options but decided it was worth a few extra bucks to do it right. I have used this kit before, back in the 90's on an old Honda, so I'm at least familiar with the procedure.

Hopefully I can get it washed and prepped tomorrow. I'm aiming to have it running again by Sunday, but we'll see how it goes. If I do hit my target though, I'll park the 650 and pull the front wheel to send it off....and ride the 250 while it's being repaired. :)

[FastDoc]

I bought an 82 750 Virago. Got it running after it sat a couple years.

It did the same thing until I installed the stock air filter back into place.

My guess is that the pods are leaning it out too much. Try choking it alittle and see if it revs.

Allen

Copy that. I would very much recommend looking for a stock airbox and filter on eBay. SHould be easy and cheap and save a lot of headaches down the road.

Nice find, BTW. I'd have JUMPED on that one too!

[katoranger]

With the new jets the pods should work just fine.

Allen

[SpeedSouth]

Okay, I finally got the tank Kreemed. I won't go into too much detail, but I spent the better part of 12 hours completeing this task. I let the etching process go for about 5 1/2 hours, and once I put the coating into the tank, I spent the next 5 hours rotating the tank every 10 minutes.

It wasn't hard work, but it was time consuming, and a bit of a PITA.


I put some fuel in there on Friday and fired her up again. She idles fine, but pops under throttle, which I believe is a sign of a lean condition, and will hopefully be corrected w/ larger jets.

I also put the NGK plugs in and synced the carbs, but the carbs weren't off by much.


Here's a picture of the petcock when it was removed from the tank -

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k163/drgweb/May%2009/IMGP1334.jpg

I've seen worse, but things like that don't get better on their own, so I Kreemed it! 8)


I plan to pull the carbs and put in larger jets in the next day or two.

[AZ200cc]

I'm just glad that bike has a better owner now :D

[SpeedSouth]

Ha ha...thanks! :D

[SpeedSouth]

I'll try to keep this update short.

I still haven't pulled the carbs again to replace the jets, but I did fire it up today, and was excited by the way she ran.

Why?

The one thing I didn't do while I kreemed the tank was open the petcock to clean (read horror stories of people not getting them to seal afterwards). I had the fuel line pulled in preperation to pull the carbs and noticed something hanging from the petcock. I touched it w/ my finger and a sizable bit of rust fell out.

I looked at my inline filter really closely and saw more particles in there. I noticed it wasn't filling up like it was at first, so I pulled it off. I drained a little more from the tank to see how it was flowing and then put a bit of clear vinyl hose in place, with a bit of a low curve, which has since collected a small pile of rust particles. It's hard to explain and I didn't take a picture, but basically, gravity is keeping the grit out of the carbs for now.

I didn't run it long, but she reved all the way without hesitation. :D


I'll get another new fuel filter before I take it out for a ride and start the jetting process, but I am now quite certain this girl will be on the road soon.

[AZ200cc]

ALmost there, Nothing like knowing how to do it rather than pay a person.

[FastDoc]

Great thread!

Nice bike. I'm restoring one perfect mechanically but banged up asthetically, the opposite from you. Your problems are more time consuming but much cheaper! I'll post some of my pics when I get a chance.

Good work. I'm POSITIVE when you richen up the jetting you'll be fine. Check out one of the Ninja 250 forums for step by step directions. You are almost there!