Roketa clutch slipping (FIXED)

[FMYStreetRacer]

my clutch is starting to slip even worse now. Bruce had said something about clutch springs? i looked at the clutch assembly pictures of a xr200 and i only see one spring and it's at the opposite end of the pressure plate. anyone have any idea as to what i can do?

Edit: i fixed the problem, see page 3

[ambassador]

Hey FMY,
You should have multiple springs, I think 6 in all...

As was posted before, these bikes are like Bic lighters, disposable, you've had more wear out on this bike than anyone else here, maybe time to trade her in???

[FMYStreetRacer]

yeah i've been thinking about getting rid of it for a while now. guy at my work might be interested in buying it. i'll probly pick up a lifan next.

btw are the springs adjustable or just have to be replaced?

[msRandi]

in the old days we would just add a washer to each sping. but it is most likeley disks are wering out not a hard job to replace.

[ejcycles]

Most of the Roketa clutches slip from the factory...ask Fatboy250 he has one that has slipped since day one.

Bruce

[ambassador]

FMY,
Depending on how bad it is you'd probably have to replace the clutch plates, I have done this on other bikes and it's really not that hard..
I would replace the springs too while you're at it.. Finding plates and springs may be hard unless EJ or RPM have them...

[FMYStreetRacer]

i wouldn't think that the plates are wearing out already, i've only had the bike for a couple of months.

how to i add washers to the springs? anyone have any pics?

[bfe71730]

You may have to take your cable off and the kick starter then remove the engine cover. once cover is removed you will see the basket assembly. If you are going to this much trouble, go ahead and take the clutches out and find a suitable Honda match, we all would like to know, I guarantee you will notice a difference with heavyduty friction plates and springs and probably won't have to replace them again. BTW are you using synthetic oil?

[FMYStreetRacer]

yeah maybe i'll see if the clutch plates are the same on the xr200. i'm pretty sure Bruce is going to start working on something like this.

i use regular valvoline motorcycle oil.

[madmaximum]

I'll post a picture from my Roketa parts manual of the clutch showing where to add the washers. You may want to try 20W-50 oil before you tear stuff apart though. Worked on my Ninja(wayyy back when)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/416846226_82af1f30d1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/madmaximum/416846226/)

[fatboy250]

Before I had concluded that the springs were weak for the load that the bike was carrying (265lbs) However, I started taking note that just before each 1000mile oil change the clutch slip problem was almost non-existant. So, I started watching the miles after the last oil change and figured that around 550-600miles after oil changes the clutch rarely slipped even under hard acceleration in all gears. So, I told Dad that I'm going to start changing the oil every 2000 miles and see how this effects things. BTW, I've used different types of oils, the latest being Valvoline 10W-40 Motorcycle oil.

I will say that the springs are probably the culprit but are much less noticable when the "oil" is broke in.

The washer fix was going to be my next route if things didn't improve.

Hope this helps,
Jason

[FMYStreetRacer]

humm, i did just change the oil yesterday on the bike and i didn't think it was as bad before i changed it. will the 20-50 oil really help? i'll probly give that a shot on monday i guess. i figured that thiner oil would help though. maybe i'll back off changing the oil as often, i've been changing it about once a week. my bike probly has about 1,000 miles on it and the oil has probly been changed atleast 5-8 times.

i still think i'm going to try adding washers when ever i get the chance. i like my clutches to grab hard. my car has a 2600 LB. pressure plate and a 4-puck ceramic clutch disk.

[fatboy250]

I just bought some 20-50 Castrol motorcycle oil today. But, I hadn't planned to change mine for about another 1000miles, so I don't know. Maybe you could do it and see. If that cures it then I'll just run 20-50 from now on. Right now I only have the occasional slip into 5th with only about 600miles on this recent oil change. Knowing all the while that I drive the bike hard all the time.

Hope this helps,
Jason

[FMYStreetRacer]

I just bought some 20-50 Castrol motorcycle oil today. But, I hadn't planned to change mine for about another 1000miles, so I don't know. Maybe you could do it and see. If that cures it then I'll just run 20-50 from now on. Right now I only have the occasional slip into 5th with only about 600miles on this recent oil change. Knowing all the while that I drive the bike hard all the time.

Hope this helps,
Jason

i have slip down low. and if i continue to make it slip it'll do it all the way through the gear. seems to be worst in 3rd and forth.

[fatboy250]

Just for the sake of eliminating everything, have you adjusted the clutch cable to release all the way at full engagement? There was a little adjusting needed initially on ours. I also added a small spring to our armatures to pull it back to make sure it was fully released when the clutch is let out.

[FMYStreetRacer]

yep, first thing i did was adjust the cable. it was ok but i added some more play.

[ob1]

If you do decide to pull the clutch apart, you can send me one each of the steel and fiber plates, and I will compare them to the XR200 clutch.

Dont forget to send the return shipping as well! My suggestion, use USPS Priority mail bag at the PO. When you send it, label another bag with your address in the "TO" spot and throw $4.00 in it, and toss it in.

Ordinarily I wouldnt sweat $4, but right now isnt the time...

[FMYStreetRacer]

i can just measure the thickness and diamiter if you want.

[ob1]

You would have to measure; Thickness, outer total diameter, outer notch diameter, inner total diameter, inner notch diameter, number of interior splines, number of exterior splines, width of interior splines, width of exterior splines.

Much easier to send one of each and compare.

[FMYStreetRacer]

if i end up needing new ones i'll send the old ones for sure. i just don't want any down time. i think i'm going to just pull it apart and add some washers to the springs and call it a day.

[ob1]

Who had the bike that died? Maybe they would send the parts down for comparison? I'm not tearing mine apart until it needs it!

[FMYStreetRacer]

calcune i think. that would be cool as hell to compare.

[fatboy250]

It would, but wasn't his a push rod version?

[FMYStreetRacer]

probly the same clutch. i don't think there is much of anything different from these bikes. i'm currently creating a Rofan myself. i already have a Lifan front rim band and throttle cable. next will probly be a Lifan clutch cable and maybe even some lifan clutch parts if they're needed.

[ejcycles]

Hey guys

I already have a A. Lifan 200 engine apart that had a Major Vibration problem. I'm already in the process of checking on the clutch plates.

Bruce

[ejcycles]

Hey guys

I already have a A. Lifan 200 engine apart that had a Major Vibration problem. I'm already in the process of checking on the clutch plates.

Bruce

[jeffhei]

I am adjusting my clutch to make sure it is fully engaged when fully let out. Has anyone added an extra spring to pull the armature back.

[jeffhei]

Just for the sake of eliminating everything, have you adjusted the clutch cable to release all the way at full engagement? There was a little adjusting needed initially on ours. I also added a small spring to our armatures to pull it back to make sure it was fully released when the clutch is let out.

Hey Fatboy, What kind of spring did you use, and how was it connected.

[FMYStreetRacer]

yeah it's gotten pretty bad now. prettysure i won't be riding the bike again til it's pulled apart.

[fatboy250]

Hey Fatboy, What kind of spring did you use, and how was it connected.

Check out my gallery http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1336

I added a couple of pics to help understand

Jason

[fatboy250]

Hey guys

I already have a A. Lifan 200 engine apart that had a Major Vibration problem. I'm already in the process of checking on the clutch plates.

Bruce

Are you cross referencing an xr200 clutch? It would be great to know it this is a direct drop in replacement.

Jason

[FMYStreetRacer]

well i fixed it. i only ran it for a minute. i forgot my camera at home so all the pics i took were with my cell phone. i e-mailed them to myself but the service is acting up. after i eat dinner i'll hook the cable up to the phone and upload them like that. i'll post pics and tell you guys what i did.

[FMYStreetRacer]

ok here's what i did:

i took the clutch cover off. once you get it off there is a plate that is bolted to the outside of the clutch basket. it is the release and also has the springs attached to it. i loosend the four bolts that held that together. once you take that off you can remove the clutch springs. i took some washers and drilled them out to be bigger that the posts that the springs went around. the first set i tried to use that were in our bolts bin at work were too large around. they need to fit in the cover that i removed so that the spring won't sit crooked. so i searched around and remembered that i saved all the extra bolts and washers from the assembly of my bike. what do you know, i found eight of them and they were the right size around but the center hole was super small. i drilled out the centers and deburred them. i decided to use two washers. i couldn't have used a 3rd. two washers made the springs almost complletly compressed. it worked out really well from what i can tell for the whole 2 clutch dumps i did.

anyways here's the pics.

spring assembly removed.
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6086/image142mj1.jpg

clutch disks. 5 disks just like a xr200 from what i can tell.
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3386/image143yv6.jpg

what is the hell is a plastic gear doing is here? someone please tell me what that is for.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/904/image144ax8.jpg

the disks
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1327/image146qa9.jpg

this is for Bruce, i know we talked about you trying to see if the xr springs are the same.
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8732/image149pm0.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2160/image150xa4.jpg

this is the plate that holds the springs on. see where the face of the spring sits? the washers need to sit there, can't be bigger.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8019/image151df1.jpg

my nastey job of drilling out the holes. i had to do it by hand with a air drill. they look like shit but hey they work.
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/1042/image152jw8.jpg

washers installed before everything is aligned and tightend down.
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/8541/image153ow3.jpg

tightend down
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2156/image154eq5.jpg[img]

tightend down side
[img]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2830/image155qg2.jpg .

i'm going to most likely take the bike to work tomorrow. i'll be sure to post up how much better the clutch is.

[ambassador]

Not much different from my XR except for the plastic gear, gotta be a part of the starter, maybe oil throw???

[FMYStreetRacer]

starter is on top. guy at my work said maybe it's for crank case vent. all i know is that i don't like that crap there at all.

[liverchip]

Maybe oil pump?

[liverchip]

Probably a dumb question, but were you guys looking for a supplier for clutches? I found mine TSM 200 (grey market Lifan pushrod) for 42$. No need for it as of yet, but I believe in being proactive. Now if only I could find brake pads.

[fatboy250]

FMY,

Great job, I can't wait to hear how it works out for you!

Can you give the inner (i.d.) and outer(o.d.) diameter of the final washers. I may be able to find some that are that size that can be bought and I'll post them in the parts thread. Otherwise I will just do what you did.

Also, what was your final thickness with the two washers? I may just get Dad to machine the exact size washer (spacer) as one unit.

Thanks for you help.

Jason

[cycleway4]

hi...yes, plastic gear drives the oil pump..........this is a typical set-up[for that purpose]

[FMYStreetRacer]

FMY,

Great job, I can't wait to hear how it works out for you!

Can you give the inner (i.d.) and outer(o.d.) diameter of the final washers. I may be able to find some that are that size that can be bought and I'll post them in the parts thread. Otherwise I will just do what you did.

Also, what was your final thickness with the two washers? I may just get Dad to machine the exact size washer (spacer) as one unit.

Thanks for you help.

Jason

the inner hole is 15/32 and the outter i didn't measure, just figure as wide as the spring..... 18.5 mm. let me see if i can dig up two more washers and i'll mic them real quick. na, i jusy looked and i can't find even one. guess Roketa just knew i would need them. if i ever take anything else out that uses that washer i'll mic it.

i drove the bike in today and just took it to lunch, so farso good. it feels really good now.

[fatboy250]

The 15/32" comes out to just under 12mm. So, it sounds like a 12mm i.d. and 19mm o.d., or would 19mm be more than the surface area you had to work with on the plate? We're talking .728" (18.5mm) versus .748" (19mm). Thanks for the info.

Jason

[FMYStreetRacer]

the half milimeter might be too much.

[Roketarider]

I might be attempting this tomorrow, as my clutch is slipping bad in pretty much all gears.

[liverchip]

Streetracer, Is your motor the OHC or pushrod?

[FMYStreetRacer]

ohc

[msRandi]

It's cool to see the old ways still work.

[fatboy250]

Bruce,
Any word yet on the xr200 clutch comparison?

Jason

[fatboy250]

FMY and other Roketa owners,
I just wanted to add that I took mine apart yesterday with Dad and replaced the springs with some that I had from an old 1986 Honda VF500F interceptor. The main reason is that the stock spring measure about 1.350" long and the VF500F spring measured 1.412" long. I believe the clutch had been replaced with a Barnett when I got it. These springs also cross reference the 81-82 XR250R from what I can gather as well as several others. You can cross reference using the Barnett parts number 501-56-04015 in on this webpage http://www.newcombdistributors.com/catalog/Tab%20D%20Clutches.pdf You'll have to use the find function. I haven't been able to ride it yet but hope to do so this evening. The washers should work for those that want to go that route, otherwise the upgrade springs can be had for around $8 plus shipping from JC Whitney. I will post more later on the outcome.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Search?catalogId=10111&storeId=10101&sku=ZX065873R&searchbtn.x=13&searchbtn.y=7

[red2003]

That's a great find Fatboy :) . After you verify it is working, this should definately be added to the cross reference section.

[FMYStreetRacer]

hell yeah good job. how can you mod the bike and not test it out? first thing i did after putting the washers in was beat the piss outta it.

[fatboy250]

Confirmed it works like it should have from the factory. Clutch feel is great and it grabs quickly and doesn't slip between gears like it would before. If you look at the difference in length of the springs you'll see that it would be similar to adding one .065" washer which is about a standard width. So, if you wanted to go that route and save a few dollars it should give the same end result. BTW, FMY used two washers so I would assume his really has a lock on the clutch. Again, check the Barnett springs versus the others found in JC Whitney. They should be the same.

Jason

[red2003]

That's great news Fatboy. I would think the JC Whitney springs would be a better bet as they are longer AND heavy duty which should mean a higher spring pressure to hold the clutch better. The washer MOD will put more preload on the clutches but not more pressure which is the real issue here. When do you Roketa guys start seeing the clutch slipping? Mine has not missed a beat, even riding 2 up, but I only have a couple hundred miles on so far. I guess I better get a set coming as it sounds like most of the Roketas DO bother. $15.00 for springs is a lot better them smoking the clutch from slippage. Good work guys!!!

BTW, here's a diagram of an '83 XR200 clutch which the springs you list fit. Do the rest of the parts look interchangable???

http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4402&g2_serialNumber=2

[ejcycles]

It's not the length of the springs that is the problem with the Roketa's. It's that the springs are just cheaply made and the spring tension is deteriorating from the heat of the engine. The XR200 springs should be Ok.
Note: Clutch springs are one of the most important parts in the clutch, if you buy cheap springs then you still have cheap springs. When I sell someone an EBC clutch parts I still sell them Barnett Springs.
I hope that this helps.

Bruce

[fatboy250]

Yes Red, that looks exactly like what I saw behind the clutch cover. If JC Whitney has a slightly longer "Heavy Duty" spring for the same application, then I would definitely go with that. I couldn't imagine it being too much more heavy duty than the Barnett springs though.

For that matter, the disks I had with the old basket from the VF500 interceptor looked to be interchangable. That's without taking the clutch off the bike and actually putting them in.

The engine temp vs. clutch slip has been kind of opposite for me. When it was cold it would slip. Once it warmer up it worked fairly well and at time wouldn't slip at all. I've got the 20W-50 in it now for the summer months to see how it does.

Jason

[BW]

Clutch was slipping when cold in 3rd and 4th with 17 / 36 (great on the highway). Ordered the springs from Whitneys. Here are photos....

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll143/G0G8trs/P1010019.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll143/G0G8trs/?action=view&current=P1010019.jpg)

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll143/G0G8trs/P1010018.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll143/G0G8trs/?action=view&current=P1010018.jpg)

I could squeeze the factoy springs about 1/8 of an inch with one hand, not the new ones.
Slips no more, but OMG 4 to 5 times as hard to pull on the clutch lever.
If they don't get easier I may go to 1/2 and 1/2 in the future.
About 15.00 with shipping.

[wakebball11]

have you ever tried replacing the plates as well, if so how did you manage that?? the clutch seems to be blocked by the centrifugal filter,

[Weldangrind]

That is a five year old thread that has been awakened, so I doubt that any of the original posters are going to respond.

Removing the centrifugal filter is cake, because it has the same nut as the clutch basket. The same tool will remove both nuts. The tricky part is the phillips screws that hold the centrifugal filter cover. When I do my next XR-style clutch, I'm gonna use allen head screws instead.