2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Motorcycle Project [Archive]

SamM

08-20-2009, 03:16 AM

My new 2008 Kawasaki KLR has gone through a couple of different configurations, since I received it as a Christmas present from my wife in Dec 2007. I've modified this bike so much and bought so many parts for it that I now actually have two 2008 KLRs. I made the first KLR into a touring bike. It performed well but was lacking a little in the horsepower department. What I really wanted was a more off-road capable motorcycle. My thought with this project was to lighten it as much as possible and then to add a better off-road suspension. A brand new set of 2008 Kawasaki KX450F inverted Kayaba 48mm forks were purchased off eBay for $600 and I converted the bike to use a much bigger 2007 IMS fuel tank. The bike was well on it's way to being finished when I saw the motorcycle pictured below.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/617/index112.jpg

The diesel motorcycle pictured has a Chinese cloned Yanmar 10hp diesel engine. The owner reports a topspeed of 65mph. What a great commuter bike. After seeing it, I just had to have one of my own. It sort of evolved into a project because I had already cut the frame up on my first KLR and installed the KX inverted forks. The smaller diesel engines don't produce much horsepower, so I needed the bike to be as light as possible. The '08 was stripped down to the frame and was turned into the rolling chassis that you see here.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9802/cimg1487.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5310/cimg1491.jpg

The fuel tank is from a 2007 KLR. Many of the parts for this bike have been purchased from eBay. The only part from the original bike is the frame. I have taken my original KLR650 gasoline engine and built a completely new stock 2008 KLR. I changed the color from red to green and black. It turned out great and only took me about a week to put together after all the parts arrived. It has a 2009 wiring harnes, because the 2008 harness had a recall. I didn't trust any dealer enough to handle it, so I fixed it myself with a new harness. This new KLR will get a sidecar at somepoint in the near future.
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9042/cimg1634d.jpg

OK, back to my project. The new Diesel KLR will get a 13hp Chinese Winsun 456cc single cylinder diesel engine. The engine arrived here in the US this week from China and should get to me within 2 weeks. It will be tested before being shipped to me. The bike will use a Comet/Salsbury 500 Series CVT transmission that will power the bike through a jackshaft to the stock final chain drive. Since my engine produces more horsepower than the original diesel KLR, I am hoping to achieve a higher topspeed. Maybe around 70 to 80mph. I will include one last picture of my diesel project. The last picture shows the bike with a 2008 aluminum swingarm and rear caliper but it will actually use the 2007 swingarm shown in the other pictures. Galfer 'Wave' rotors will be used front and rear. The motorcycle will not have any foot controls. The transmission is automatic, so no shifter is needed and the rear brake will be activated with a handlebar mounted Rekluse mastercylinder made for a KX450F. A stock KX450F mastercylinder will power the front brake. The suspension will consist of the already mentioned KX450F forks and a Cogent Dynamics 'MOAB' long travel rear shock. You can see the rear 'MOAB' shock in all the pictures. These are leftover parts from the off-road project. Both the forks and the shock have been modified to make exactly 9" of suspension travel. The new bike will also use a 17" Excel wheel from the touring project. Heidenau K60 tires will be used on it. If you can picture the bike with the engine, a battery, the 2007 bodywork and not much else you can see there isn't much weight to it. Below 300# is what I'd like to see. An add-on wiring harness and headlight switch from ProCycle will control the lighting functions. The diesel engine has both an electic starter and a backup pull starter. A stock KLR Start/Stop switch will control the new engine. The bike will use a TrailTech Vector computer.
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6285/cimg1502.jpg

This one promises to be a very cool bike and a very cool project. My other KLR is done and I've committed a good deal of money to this one and hope to have the frame mocked up shortly. I'm sure the project will continue on into the Winter but I hope to be testing and improving throughout the Fall and Winter.

Comments are welcomed and encouraged. :D Thanks for looking!

SamM

Weldangrind

08-20-2009, 11:19 AM

Hey SamM, that rocks! I've had a very similar (albeit more low-buck) idea to yours. I first got the idea when I saw some spy photos of a diesel that was being tested for the US military. It turns out that when the military goes overseas, they need to bring gasoline just for the bikes; everything else runs on diesel. They'd like to use one fuel only.

My thought was to build a small street bobberwith an obnoxious open exhaust, although I thought about powering dirt bikes and quads as well. one thing I couldn't reconcile was how to create a charging circuit as well as a lighting circuit. I envisioned using a dual sport stator under a modified flywheel, but I never took the idea anywhere. It seems to me that you need a charging circuit and a lighting coil.

Great project! Please keep us updated.

dsrt4

08-20-2009, 11:34 AM

Nice. Are you on http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/index.php dieselbike.net yet?

AZ200cc

08-20-2009, 12:03 PM

Hey welcome back Sam, Nice project lookin good.

Cal25

08-20-2009, 01:21 PM

Count me in as a subscriber to this thread.

FastDoc

08-20-2009, 01:34 PM

Holy cow that's in interesting project. I'm looking forward to your progress. You are very mechanically ambitious!

SamM

08-20-2009, 04:52 PM

Thanks everyone! This bike is being built because of HDT's lack of interest in bringing a civilian diesel motorcycle to market. I've been waiting on this bike for years. Looks like HDT is finally gearing up for the production of a civilian model diesel motorcycle in the first quarter of 2010. You can checkout the HDT website at: http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/ That's par for the course, I start a bike project and then they announce their new civilian bike program. Below is a little history of the bike and the US Military mandate to only use one fuel type. I don't have an extra 20k laying around to buy a Hayes bike. This one is my chance to make one for myself.

Stay tuned! It should be fun!

SamM

To implement the single battlefield fuel concept, the U.S. Navy announced in 1997 that, beginning in the year 2005, they would no longer transport or supply gasoline in any form. They would only supply "heavy" fuels, such as, diesel and jet fuel.

At that time there were only two major tactical military systems still using gasoline, small field generator sets and motorcycles. The military approached both generator set and motorcycle manufacturers to determine what alternatives might be available. The generator set manufacturers responded immediately with some diesel fueled options. However, all the motorcycle manufacturers approached indicated that a diesel fueled motorcycle was neither commercially practical, cost effective, or, in some cases even possible given the performance requirements.

As a last resort, the U.S. Marine Corps requested proposals from all interested sources, offering to pay for the development of a diesel/jet fuel powered military motorcycle through the Small Business Innovation Research Program (SBIR). They received over 40 responses. The Marine Corps selected two companies for the initial feasibility study, HDT and a small company in Oklahoma.
After reviewing the studies from both companies, HDT was
selected as the sole source for Phase II, which was to actually produce a total of 15 diesel motorcycles.

HDT successfully completed the first part of Phase II in May of 2001, when they demonstrated the first motorcycle that used a diesel engine specifically designed as a motorcycle engine. The motorcycle exceeded all expectations and was received with great acclaim by both the news media and potential military customers.

The final part of the Phase II effort was completed in September of 2001 when a total of nine diesel motorcycles completed two field user trials conducted by the Marine Corps.

HDT has entered Phase III of the program and is currently under contract with the Marine Corps to produce up to 522 JP8/Diesel Combat Motorcycles.

SamM

08-20-2009, 10:15 PM

Here are the pictures of my new Winsun Chinese engine. Almost forgot to post them. The exhaust system and fuel tank will be removed. The fuel tank is not pictured but is bolted onto the engine when it arrives. The fan cover will be painted to match the bike.

SamM

http://img1.iwascoding.de/1/2009/06/04/7B1852F28235408F8C84F4D4E9C08E85.jpg

http://img1.iwascoding.de/1/2009/06/04/C5788E8F72154DA99B0CFDBCF8DA8CE2.jpg

Weldangrind

08-21-2009, 12:35 AM

How do you reconcile the lighting coil question?

SamM

08-21-2009, 06:14 AM

The engine comes with a 10 amp charging system. I'm not sure if it's enough but all the lights will be LED and there won't really be any accessories to speak of. The coil can be rewound if I need more power. It's been done and I have info on doing it.

It doesn't seem to be an issue.

SamM

Weldangrind

08-21-2009, 10:12 AM

Thanks for your reply. I know it's been done, I just couldn't figure out how. I'm likely mistaken, but I thought you needed two dedicated coils; one for ignition and one for lighting, not just one large coil.

Is the info you have available on a website? That's the one stumbling block I've had for a similar project.

SamM

08-21-2009, 05:36 PM

Weldandgrind,
Here you go: http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=752

Hope this helps! The DieselBike.net site has some good information on it from some knowledgeable guys. If you have any questions, post to them and they will probably be able to help you. I'm a novice at this stuff. Still reading and learning.

SamM

TurboT

08-21-2009, 06:03 PM

I don't believe I've ever seen a pull start diesel motor before. Maybe I'm just a youngin'!

I'm curious to see how hard it would be to pull start...

Weldangrind

08-21-2009, 07:11 PM

They're not bad; diesel generators have used 'em for years.

TurboT

08-21-2009, 07:21 PM

They're not bad; diesel generators have used 'em for years.

After the post I thought that may have been the case. Never had one though. 8O I've actually never owned anything diesel, although do know the compression and cranking power needed to get the big ones going is a factor.

SamM

08-21-2009, 08:51 PM

My future plans are to switch my vehicles out one by one for diesel powered vehicles as I replace them. A friend's father has a restaurant and I'd like to try and buy his used vegetable oil. If I am able to do this I'd like to try and make my own biodiesel for my KLR456. Sending my money to the Middle East really bothers me. More and MORE everyday!

I'd want to always keep a gasoline powered KLR from here on out. These bikes are very useful and reliable. For trips you can't beat them. I can only imagine how great a diesel powered KLR will be. I hope to soon find out.

SamM

dsrt4

08-21-2009, 09:22 PM

DIESELBIKE.NET

Link to the forum!!! Post it over there as well!!

http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/index.php

SamM

08-22-2009, 01:26 PM

dsrt4,
I'm already a member of that site. After I get my engine and a little further on my frame, I'll do a build thread there too. There is still much to do and many parts to aquire.

I'm thinking very seriously about going with the desert sand paint scheme of the HDT diesel bike. I like the look.

SamM

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2237/m2hero.png

dsrt4

08-22-2009, 04:10 PM

Too late I Already made a thread about your thread....

:)

SamM

08-22-2009, 08:53 PM

Yes, I saw that and I replied to the thread.

Thanks! :wink:

SamM

warrior91

08-24-2009, 11:41 AM

Yay Sam. With some thought and work I am sure you will have an efficient and fun bike. Polaris and cat tried to sell diesel quads ...but winter driving here was problematic.
A 2 wheeler in a warm climate should be a good runner.
Good luck...but :lol: I don't think you will need it.

offroad1

08-31-2009, 02:44 AM

Sam,

That's one dog gone interesting project you have there. Great work!
I owned a 97' KLX 650 (dirt only version). It was fairly powerful/toquey.....but the 305 lbs wore me out more than once.

The crash broke the wrist and gave me a slight concussion. My memory of the event is gone, but the riding buddies seem to think a pickup clipped me on a forest road and drove off. I wish I could confirm or deny that.

I do kinda miss that monster. Your diesel engine graft looks neat.

The rope pull start reminds me of when I was a squirt and was dying for a Carl Heald Super Bronc (yeah, some models had a starter). I was fascinated by the fat atv style tires and torque converter drive. One company bought the design and actually made it again for a few years, but looks like they discontinued it.

I now have a 01' xr250, but strangely, I'm still seem interested by odd ball bikes. (I've been eyeing Rokons as well).

I know,...I'm nuts....
:mrgreen:

katoranger

08-31-2009, 08:27 AM

We had two Super Broncs when I was little.

Still waiting for more updates on the diesel klr.

Allen

SamM

09-01-2009, 03:36 PM

Hey katoranger,
No worries! I'm still working on the diesel KLR. The problem now is scrapping up the money for the engine. I've been trying to sell 950 parts but that's not going too well. For some reason there seems to be no market for used KTM bikes or their parts. Go figure! Worst purchase I ever made. As soon as something sells the diesel engine will be on it's way to me. Then the fun starts!

Tomorrow, I'm taking the frame to the bearing shop to source a top seal for the KX450F top clamps. The next thing on the list is to build a frame jig to get the frame squared before welding in the new downtubes. That's a must do. The frame needs to be straight. When I cut it apart it twicked a little out of square. The neck isn't in line with the swingarm mounts now. In hindsite I would have done it a little differently.

Next week, I'm going to Ecuador and the Galapogos Islands, so there won't be any work done or updates until probably October. All my extra funds for now are going into the trip.

SamM

offroad1

09-01-2009, 10:03 PM

We had two Super Broncs when I was little.

Cool. Did they pull loads/climb inclines well?

offroad1

09-01-2009, 10:04 PM

offroad1,
If you like Rokons you'll really love my next project. I'm building a convertible 2x/3x diesel powered Rokon motorcycle/tractor with hydrodrive. I'm currently trying to find a used Rokon frame. Without much success. The diesel bike needs to be completely finished before I start on that one. I wouldn't mind picking up a frame though. Still much to workout on that one. The bike will be a do-everything vehicle that work in any terrain. It will be street legal (for use on local roads only) and will have attachments for yard work and working on my 110 acre parcel of land. I need a small tractor but the 25K+ price tags have me turned off. I can build what I need for less.

That one is really going to be cool. I need the success of the diesel bike to launch me into it though. I'm not sure if I mentioned this before but I am also building a 1964 Lotus Seven replica in my garage right now. The car is a long term project that will take me several year. No hurry on it. I do have the frame, suspension, and a donor car for it though. The donor is a 1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe with a Holset HG35X turbo from a Cummins turbo pickup.

SamM

Neat! keep us posted on any updates when time allows.

katoranger

09-02-2009, 08:32 AM

offroad1

09-03-2009, 04:02 AM

We had two Super Broncs when I was little.

Cool. Did they pull loads/climb inclines well?

I don't rememember too well. I do remember assembling them in the basement. I was about 3-4 years old.

I had a smaller mini bike with a 3hp briggs on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmkaFgU0xbo

Would be great with a china diesel.

Check out this honda homebuilt bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS-ZPduG4rg&feature=quicklist

3-4 years old? Sheesh! I don't even know if I could tie my shoes yet!

The Bronc looks great. Must be restored or preserved real well.

That Honda project bike is the gas! It turned out great!

katoranger

09-03-2009, 08:09 AM

I would guess that it was about 1981. My older brothers had them. They would have be about 8-9.

Now that we have hijacked Sam's thread we better get back on topic.

Need more DIESEL pics.

SamM

09-03-2009, 09:42 PM

This bike was the inspiration for my bike.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/617/index112.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7553/diesel2.jpg

The first cuts to my frame.
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9441/cimg1504.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/174/cimg1503.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/155/cimg1512v.jpg

More later! I should be ordering the engine next week, but I'll be off the coast of South America until Sept 20th.

SamM

SamM

09-08-2009, 07:29 PM

Here's my lastest frame picture. I know not much to see. Everything that is not needed has been cut off. It's ready for the new downtubes and lower engine cradle. I think I have decided to use square tubing for the lower engine cradle/platform. Square tubing gets me the flat surfaces I need to mount the engine, aluminum skidplate and new heavy-duty lower wider footpeg brackets. The square tubing will also allow me to lower the engine somewhat compared to round tubing which will require much more bending. I'll use the round tubing that I have already bent and cut for the dual downtubes. It should still look good as you won't really see the lower engine cradle because of the skidplate and CVT cover.

Still trying to decide on a color. The Desert Sand color is really screaming at me. I want to have the frame, subframe and all the bodywork sprayed with Line X this Winter. A new cushdrive has been purchased, I still need a few odds and ends. The engine should be here at the end of the month. The supplier is saving one for me. I'm going out of the country late this week and I won't order the engine until I get back. The other misc. parts will also be ordered when I get back. Hope to have a few things finished up when the engine arrives. It will be rolling again, before I mount the engine and build the engine cradle. More then!

SamM

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3460/cimg1796qt.jpg

Weldangrind

09-08-2009, 11:38 PM

Square tube is an excellent idea. I had similar thoughts about intersecting square tube with the round swingarm tube on my quad; it'll make a decent mount for a chain slider.

The benefit to square tube, aside from the points you brought up, is that you can notch it with a hole saw for a clean intersection with round tube.

I hope you detail every step. I can't wait to learn about incorporating the cushdrive and CVT. :D I have access to a small crank / #40 chain Comet TAV for cheap, and I'd love to build a diesel bobber with it. The TAV was originally designed for a 6.5hp gas engine, but the #40 chain should work nicely with a higher torque diesel.

SamM

09-09-2009, 02:22 AM

Weldangrind,
The biggest obstacle that I can see with the frame is making sure the steering head and swingarm are at a perfect 90 degrees from one another. The build table for my Lotus is flat dead level. I'll probably take the car frame off the table and use it to level, mock up, and then tack up the frame. I may even do the finish welding on the table just to make sure everything is straight and in the proper place. The square tubing will make fabbing everything for the frame much easier now!

Another issue is the CVT jackshaft mount. The jackshaft that powers the final drive chain needs to be the the same plane as the swingarm. Bare with me for a moment! Most of these type bikes use an adjustable engine mount. The idea is so that the CVT belt can be adjusted as it wears. I'd rather bolt the engine into the frame in a fixed position and make the jackshaft adjustable. I think I've worked that out. The jackshaft bearing mounts will not be bolted solidly to the frame. Instead, they will mount on a large bracket that will pivot on the stock unused lower gasoline engine mount. If you look at the picture below, you'll see a bolt through mount located on the bottom portion of the frame under the swingarm. It may need to be beefed up a little though. When the CVT belt needs to be tensioned the bracket will rotate on this bolt to provide the belt adjustment. The complete jackshaft assembly will move backwards or forwards and then bolt solidly to the frame using tabs that will bolt-on using the swingarm mounting bolt. Just like an alternator on a Chevy V-8. The final chain drive will then adjust the chain in it's normal fashion to make sure it is tensioned properly. This way I can keep the engine as far forward as I can get it, making more room for the jackshaft itself. The side benefit is that I get a solidly mounted engine sitting on rubber isolators. Moving the engine back and forth seems like a really bad idea to me.

The cushdrive that I bought is just a stock KLR650 cushdrive. It's located in the rear wheel. I still need to order the rubber isolator for that and a few rear axle parts but it will all have to wait for my return from South America, on the 20th. I also need to order the rear shock link bolts and to remove the Cogent Dynamics shock from my other KLR. A new Ricor IAS complete suspension is going onto that bike.

The one last BIG issue on the diesel KLR may be the 2007 KLR rear brake caliper mount. Since the bike needs to be switched to a rightside final drive, I need to have a mirror image caliper mount fabricated for it. A local machineshop will get that job. I hope they can handle it.

SamM

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3443/cimg1496f.jpg

katoranger

09-09-2009, 08:37 AM

I may have to save this GS450 I have as a frame donor. That would make a great commuter bike with diesel power.

Weldangrind

09-09-2009, 11:22 AM

SamM,

I once built a minibike for my friend's son, and it was a blank slate in the beginning. I didn't have a need for a jackshaft on that bike, since the final drive was a #35 chain like the clutch. I wasn't using a CVT, although plans were to upgrade as the boy became more confident in his riding ability.

Since there was no swingarm and no jackshaft, I had little choice but to adjust chain tension via sliding the engine forward. As such, I welded a piece of angle iron in front of the engine that bridged the two framerails. I then drilled two holes in the angle, and attached two studs two the sliding portion of the engine mount plate (I didn't mount the engine directly to the frame, because I worked hard at achieving balance on two planes). The studs passed through the holes, and nyloc nuts would draw them forward.

I'm not saying that you should slide the engine forward to tighten the chain; I agree that it should be static. What I'm saying is that the jackshaft benefits from a screw-type adjustment, unlike a Chev alternator. I once had an '89 Mercury Sable, and the alternator had a screw adjustment for alternator belt tension; perhaps you can devise something like that to apply tension to the jackshaft. Maybe your donor car has the same setup for inspiration. You can also look to old-school motorcycle axle adjusters for ideas.

Cheers!

SamM

09-09-2009, 09:28 PM

Weldangrind,
I think a screw type adjuster is a great idea. It's very doable with my ideas. Adding a simple screw adjuster to each side instead of a bolt/ bracket assembly should be easily accomplished. It would also make everything more stable.

Thanks!

SamM

Savage

09-27-2009, 09:10 PM

subscribing for the future.
crazy, can't wait to see the end

SamM

09-29-2009, 05:18 AM

Made it back from my trip to the Galapagos Islands last week. AWESOME trip! We had a great time. For the last week, I've been laying around trying to recover from a bug I caught in Ecuador on my last night out on the town. We ate at a steakhouse in Guayaquil. I had some reservations about the food but our host reported that everything was ok to eat. NOT! It could have be the buffet lunch at the hotel the next day. Not sure! I think the octopus didn't agree with me. Still had an awesome time though. Snorkled in the Pacific Ocean with sea lions. Walked through the largest lava tubes on the planet and checked out the giant tortoises. Did a little work for God too!

Anyway, my diesel engine will be shipped next week. They have arrived and are being tested. Not much else to report. I have been checking into a different final drive system but I don't have anything in concrete yet. Still waiting on some answers to a few questions.

SamM

Here's a link to a video of my new engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R18Xcb4553c

Savage

09-29-2009, 08:52 AM

Any idea how they do since they only put out 13hp?

FastDoc

09-29-2009, 11:36 AM

Any idea how they do since they only put out 13hp?

Its all in the torque. 8)

Weldangrind

09-29-2009, 12:02 PM

Semi-hijack: Were you in the Galapagos Islands on a missions trip?

Savage

09-29-2009, 12:43 PM

Any idea how they do since they only put out 13hp?

Its all in the torque. 8)

Right, but I'm asking how they compare? Guess he doesn't know yet

SamM

09-29-2009, 02:43 PM

Semi-hijack: Were you in the Galapagos Islands on a missions trip?

Yes, I was! I'm a missionary to Central and South America in my spare time. It's good for the soul and it keeps me humble. Actually, I do a trip every other year. In 2007, I went to Guatemala. This trip has made me realize even more that I need to learn the language before I go back in 2011. My new mission is to learn Spanish over the next 2 years.

An evangelist that I support and travel with, might be going to Peru next year. Our off day would be a visit to Machu Picchu.

If you ever have any doubts about how great home is, travel to a third world country.

SamM

SamM

09-29-2009, 03:45 PM

Right, but I'm asking how they compare? Guess he doesn't know yet

How does the 13hp diesel engine compare to what? How does the 13hp diesel engine compare to my 38hp gasoline engine? There is no comparison! The 13hp engine gets over 100+mpg, runs on fuel I can make and doesn't use gasoline. That's a WIN, WIN, WIN situation! As to the performance. I have no idea yet. I suspect that there is no real performance comparison either. All things even, the gasoline engined, manual transmission KLR that I have would walk away from a diesel powered, CVT transmission KLR. The guy that originally did this conversion reports a 65 to 70mph topspeed with a 10hp engine. I hope mine does that good or better. Because I realize this engine is severly limited for streetuse, the CVT equipped version may never happen. I am working on alternative drives to address the power deficiency.

Right now, I'm looking at an electric drive system that could give me a much higher 90+mph topspeed. Maybe even better. The downside is that it is very heavy, very expensive and I have to somehow power the thing! Think of it as a modern diesel/electric railway locomotive. BIG POWER, but it sips fuel! With reduced power usage, meaning a light throttle hand running the electric drive and cut back engine speeds to make electricity, I believe that upwards of 150+mpg could be possible, maybe more! Hey, if you're going to dream, dream big! I'm still trying to find out how big a power source I'll need and how much continuous power I'll need to produce. It will be expensive and it will delay the project some. I'm not rich and I have other priorities. I do know that it would produce lower emissions (with bio-fuel) and get great mileage. Unlike an pure electric motorcycle I would have unlimited range. It might not be on bio-fuel but I could go as far as I wanted on it. This is just a big science project and a learning exercise for me, as I have a much bigger project in mind for the future. Over the past few weeks, it's mushroomed out of control as I've had a lot of extra time (riding on jet aircraft) to roll things over in my mind. Then I found the much more powerful hub mounted electric motor that I've been waiting for.

Check the pictures below. If it works, I'll sell all the rest of my motorcycles to finance this one project. I may need a bigger diesel engine and that's where the next big expense will come. I have the same motorcycle that the bike in the lower picture is made from sitting in my shop. I can sell all of the original engine, wiring and parts that I don't need to help finance some of it. The current bike that I am building will also be sold along with my new 2008 KLR650.

Up untill very recently, I had always considered the purchase of my 2005 KTM 950 Adventure as a big mistake. Now, I'm not so sure.

There, I just let all the cats out of my bag! My wife thinks that I have totally lost my mind. This seems like a logical next step to me. Why reinvent anything. Use proven technology that works in the real world every day. The problem is in the small packaging needed for the use on a motorcycle.

Imagine this: how sweet would it be to roll up to a stoplight, dial up the separate, manual engine control throttle, and when the light changes, roll on the rheostat electric throttle and dust a big cruiser or an R1? All the time using bio-fuel (that you can make) and getting 150+mpg? As I said, if you are going to dream, dream big! This all may be a big pipedream and a lot of cheap talk! But it may be a really cool motorcycle!

Has anyone seen or heard of any motorcycle like this before?

SamM

http://www.plugbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/enertrac-electric-hub-motor.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9218/newdieselpoweredmotorcy.jpg

Savage

09-29-2009, 04:12 PM

Since we're talking about anything and everything I can't wait until I'm old and cruising around on a brushless lipo cycle. I'll be ready for a quite bike by then. :lol:

FastDoc

09-29-2009, 04:22 PM

You sir, have the inventive spirit, and Godly heart that made America great. Keep it up.

SamM

09-30-2009, 02:43 AM

Thank you very much for the kind words FastDoc.

I try to give back what I can but I'm not nearly as good at it yet as some I know. There are some really wonderful people out there. I try to learn as much as I can, whenever I get a chance to spend time with them.

Motorcycles are something that I am really passionate about. In the future, I think we will see more and more electric motorcycles as the technology moves forward. Spending upwards of $8000 on battery packs that get me 60 miles isn't something that I'm ready to do just yet. The ZERO Motorcycles S & DS models are very interesting to me. Their 60 mile range would work for me as a commuter bike but not much more. GREEN buying incentives in my state drop the $9950 price to $6450 with no sales tax but I still need to spend the $9950 upfront at the time of purchase. As the batteries get better and competition drives the market, we'll see more and more of these hit the market and the prices will get better.

I can't wait!

SamM

SamM

10-07-2009, 02:23 AM

My engine will be here next week. I have my money piled up and I'm ready to order it within the next couple of days. The cost was to be around $800 but I got a price reduction and it came in at $745 shipped to my door. Can't wait to get my hands on it!

There are still a few extra KLR parts that I need to finish the rolling frame. These are the rear shock linkage bolts, outer axle adjusters, a cushdrive rubber dampner plus the assorted fastener here or there. Just ordered these! I should have a roller by the end of the month and will post pictures of the bike shortly.

New wheels and tires are also ready to be ordered. The rear wheel will be from one of my earlier KLR projects. This wheel is a 17"x4.25" black Excel built by Woody's Wheel Works in Denver, CO. I will be sending this wheel back to Woody next week to have a tubeless conversion done on it. The front wheel is a used KX450F wheel that I bought off eBay. It will also get a black Excel wheel and a tubeless conversion. A 19"x3.5" Excel will go on it. The hub will be powdercoated a matching flat black. The tires that I will be using on the Diesel KLR will be Metzler Tourance tubeless dualsport tires. My thought is a lower rolling resistance type tire and less unsprung weight because of the lack of tubes, will help the bike reach a higher topseed. The 140mm Tourance is the widest possible on the KLR. Handling should be great, even if the bike is somewhat slow due to a lower than normal topspeed. The mileage should be awesome. A spare set of stock KLR wheels will be available for off-road use.

It's slow going but things are finally starting to coming together.

SamM

Edit: I resized the pictures to fit better, posted a link to a video of the Winsun engine and added more information.

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R18Xcb4553c

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3449/1000520i.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4969/1000525q.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8119/1000523r.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9684/1000528i.jpg

Weldangrind

10-07-2009, 02:26 AM

Can't wait Sam!

What are you going to do with the exhaust?

SamM

10-07-2009, 02:47 AM

Weldandgrind,
Haven't decided yet. I'll probably either go with an inexpensive aftermarket muffler for the KLR or a muffler for a smaller bike. Maybe an HMF muffler for a DRZ. Whichever way I go the muffler will be in the stock KLR muffler location. I haven't really started looking yet. Too much else to figure out.

The muffler on the Winsun engine is located in the front and the outlet faces forward. This will be reversed and the pipe will go straight back into a stock type KLR system with the aftermarlet muffler. Also, the stock Winsun fuel tank will be removed from the engine.

The jackshaft parts aren't very expensive. I will also be ordering these parts and the Comet/Salsbury Series 500 CVT this month. Decided to use the 500 Driver and 500 Driven CVT parts which will get me a .81:1 overdrive ratio in the CVT transmission. The Driven unit comes in either a 3/4" or 1" shaft. The 3/4" looks to be the best choice. The final drive ratio will be worked out as I go. I'll make the best guess I can and then go from there.

SamM

SamM

10-14-2009, 09:07 AM

WooHoo! My diesel engine arrives today. Paid for it last Friday, when I overnighted the Cashier's Check to A1biofuel.net Thursday morning. Mr. Hansen shipped the engine out to me Monday morning. It will arrive at my house today via UPS Freight.

The KLR frame needs modified in order for the engine to fit. The engine will be mounted as far forward as possible. Inch square tubing will be used for the engine cradle and the 3/4" jackshaft will mount behind the engine. I know that I have posted all of this before but I'm getting very excited about the project. I may even run out and get some diesel fuel and start the engine later today.

Stay tuned. It's going to start getting good now!

SamM

SamM

10-14-2009, 09:13 AM

The Red 2008 KLR in the photo below in my signature, is the bike that I am converting into the Diesel KLR. It was the first '08 KLR that I owned. My wife bought this bike for me for Christmas Dec. 22, 2007.

The bike will use many 2007 KLR parts and will look more like the earlier KLR models. It will have completely custom front and rear suspensions on it.

Just a little background info.

SamM

katoranger

10-14-2009, 09:48 AM

Sam, this is my favorite project so far. I wouldn't mind a similar setup in a street bike for commuting on.

Allen

SamM

10-14-2009, 04:55 PM

katoranger,
The engine is here! We just unloaded it off the UPS truck. Wow, it's heavy. I think most of the weight is the crate though. They boxed it up nicely. It's raining right now or I'd uncrate the engine and test run it. Can't wait to hear it run. This is going to be a fun project. I'm really excited about getting started on it.

Hey, I must apologize! I didn't get your shock shipped today. I'll do it first thing in the morning. It's boxed and ready to go.

EDIT: just added a couple of pictures of the new diesel engine!

SamM

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1816/cimg3047.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6076/cimg3048.jpg

katoranger

10-14-2009, 05:30 PM

Very nice. We will need video of it running on some veg.

Allen

SamM

10-14-2009, 05:34 PM

No veggie oil. Bio-Diesel only! The first start will be on regular Low-Sulfur Diesel fuel unless I can find some bio-fuel in the next few days.

SamM

katoranger

10-14-2009, 05:36 PM

Are you planning to brew your own at home eventually? I did alot of miles in the mercedes on veggie, but never tried any biodiesel.

Allen

SamM

10-14-2009, 05:55 PM

Yes, I hope to make my own. A friends father owns a local diner. I also just recently bought a simple recipe for making it cheaply. No titrations. Mix and wash.

SamM

SamM

10-15-2009, 07:21 PM

More pictures! I'll be starting the frame fabrication shortly. This gives you a good idea how the engine will fit in the frame.

SamM

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5415/cimg3049.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3976/cimg3051.jpg

offroad1

01-02-2010, 02:01 AM

Sam,

What's the status of your project today?

Weldangrind

01-02-2010, 02:10 AM

Yeah Sam, where ya been?

FastDoc

01-18-2010, 07:44 PM

We're needing an update on this very interesting project! :D

SamM

02-01-2010, 11:18 PM

I'm sorry that I haven't posted an update in awhile. I recently ran into a bit of a brickwall. My CVT supplier has become a victum of the bad economy. Hoffco/Comet has declared Chapter 11 and have closed their doors. Their biggest and best customer John Deere bailed on them and drove the last nail into their coffin. My plan was to buy a Series 500 beltdriven CVT from Hoffco/Comet to power the bike. What it boils down to now, is that I am without a final drive system to power the bike. I am being forced to look for a new drive for the motorcycle. I've been considering a centrifugal clutch but I'm not sure if it will work or not. Several units that appear to have what I need have been found but there is quite a bit of math and other considerations to workout before I can purchase the correct clutch. Sprocket sizes, drive ratios, possible topspeeds, etc... need to be worked out first. Other CVT manufacturers are being looked at in the hope that something similar to the Comet Series 500 can be found. It doesn't look good though.

A few things on the project have moved forward. I now have a KLR600 aluminum subframe and seat for the bike. This will lighten the motorcycle. The purchase of a new on the market Trail Tech X2 dualsport headlight is also pending. A 3/4" jackshaft, bearings and sprockets needed to power the rear wheel have also been purchased and are ready to go. I haven't finished the frame yet, because I need to have the drive system worked out first.

Lately, I have been considering using the stock forks from my 2008 KLR650 donor on the diesel. They are much lighter than the KX450F forks that I had planned on using. In the bottom picture you will notice the stock '08 KLR forks, the new SW-Motech centerstand for the diesel KLR, the reversed brake and sprocket locations and the wheels for the project. There is still much to do and much to figure out.

The lack of a drive system will probably slow the build quite a bit now.

SamM

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2456/cimg3105.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1332/cimg3104.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8366/cimg3135.jpg

Weldangrind

02-02-2010, 02:36 AM

Hey Sam! Welcome back.

Bummer about Comet, although they're no the only game in town. Try researching the jr.dragster industry and see if that leads you to something that will handle the weight and torque you have in mind. I know that Shockwave makes really good stuff, and they're very tuneble.

Short of that, could you adapt a snowmobile centrifugal clutch setup?

BTW, if you went with a simple centrifugal clutch, you wouldn't need a jackshaft or reversed rear wheel. Not sure what kind of power / speed the bike would be capable of though.

Have you tried eBay for the CVT? I found a good used one once.

waynev

02-02-2010, 06:18 AM

Have you tried here? http://www.gokartsupply.com/500ser.htm

SamM

02-02-2010, 06:23 AM

Hey Weldandgrind,
I'm hesitant to buy a used or out of production CVT. Parts may not be available later on. The jackshaft is a must have for my build as the engine is much wider than the rear axle. The shaft and clutch won't line up with the final drive. A jackshaft must be used to get power the rear wheel.

Thanks for the tip on Shockwave. I'll check them out.

SamM

katoranger

02-02-2010, 08:30 AM

I think the snowmobile parts may not work well. Designed for much higher RPM use. This diesel will only hit about 4K tops. The comet clutch was probably perfect.

Not sure if the snowmobile clutched could be tuned for lower rpm engagement.

How about parts from a GY6 scooter drive? Just a thought there.

Allen

Reveeen

02-02-2010, 09:21 AM

How about parts from a GY6 scooter drive?

I would have to say too light, not horsepower wise, torque wise. Biggest shaft in a GY6 set-up is 17mm, many smaller.

katoranger

02-02-2010, 09:22 AM

Probably right Reveen. The diesel torque might be too much for those parts.

Snowmobile clutches could handle the power, but not sure if they can be tuned to operates are lower rpms.

Allen

Reveeen

02-02-2010, 09:40 AM

Snowmobile stuff, that Ive seen, works on a morse taper/keyway type of hook-up, expensive to replicate on a 1" crankshaft end. (and hard to say how deep the hardening goes in the crank end, you could grind a taper on the crank and be left with a very soft steel stub)

I have no idea what is in the newer 4 stroke snow machines. (maybe someone will pass by and tell us)

Separate gearbox? (Harley, Triumph, BSA, you get the idea)
The Royal Enfield diesels use a similar engine mated to a Royal Enfield gearbox, so there is an "off the shelf system", however expensive? (these guys were converting gas RE's to diesels http://www.f2motorcycles.ltd.uk/ they appear to have stopped, but an E-Mail might not go wrong)

There is a guy in Europe (Germany?) stuffing VW diesel engines into bikes, seems to me that he has a choice gearbox he separates from an engine (by machining). You would have to google search it (it escapes me now).

A VW diesel can be mated to an early rear wheel drive Audi gearbox.

A Thermo King Diesel is a copy of a early 60's Mercedes diesel, meaning that a Mercedes gearbox can be found to fit.

Hydraulic drive? (a John Deer variable displacement hydraulic pump comes to mind)

That's it for my knowledge of small diesels and stuff.

Weldangrind

02-02-2010, 10:42 AM

I like the idea of a separate gearbox, although it would require custom gearing to suit a diesel. As an example, a VW diesel engine is geared much differently than a gas counterpart, despite nearly identical cases.

Maybe a CVT from the side-by-side market would be workable. The Husqvarna all-wheel-drive, diesel-powered HUV4421 uses a CVT with a 20hp Kubota engine.

katoranger

02-02-2010, 11:40 AM

I thought of a separate gearbox too. I have never owned a snowmobile, wasn't aware of have the clutches mounted. Only ridden a few of them.

The side by side market is probably the closest fit. Problem is that most were probably made by Comet.

Allen

Reveeen

02-02-2010, 01:27 PM

Here is "the poop" on a Royal Enfield conversion: (and the way I would lean if I already owned an engine)

http://www.altmann.haan.de/riding_on_salad_oil/

Of course the only separate is going to be antique British (Burman), or Harley. The Harley uses a bottom mount, has provision for a starter, and up to 6 speeds.

katoranger

02-02-2010, 03:49 PM

The separate trans would be a good option if there is enough room for it.

Reveeen

02-02-2010, 04:20 PM

if there is enough room for it

Well, I *guess* if you want a transmission you make room?

I *see* the Comet part of the business has been purchased, so something should be surfacing shortly, but for $326 for a driver, and $300 for a take-up, + a belt, pillow blocks, jack shaft and a sprocket, either way isn't cheap!

katoranger

02-02-2010, 04:27 PM

I am sure the trans could be done. Not sure if the intent is to have an "auto" trans or not either.

Allen

FastDoc

02-02-2010, 06:20 PM

Would this be nuts? :roll:

Hydraulic drive. Pump on the craankshaft, motor in the hub of the rear wheel. No tranny or jackshaft.

Reveeen

02-02-2010, 08:15 PM

Would this be nuts?

Yes and no. We are only talking 10hp, hydraulics have a fixed rate of frictional losses, the losses remain the same if you put 10hp through the system, or 50hp, the current "standard" for such a system seems to be around 25hp. Hydraulics are, well, difficult/expensive to control in a linear fashion, as in controlling volume/pressure in a controlled acceleration mode, say with a hand type throttle. I'm not saying it can't be done, but you are stepping away from current mainstream hydraulic controls (mass produced/cheap) into specialty items (expensive). Might as well throw in a whopping big high pressure accumulator, a smaller diesel engine, and electronics to start/stop the engine as pressure/volume is required.

I *think* the simplest way is the best way.

FastDoc

02-02-2010, 09:22 PM

SamM

02-02-2010, 09:38 PM

Wow, you guys have put a lot of thought into this. I've gone over ALL the options and the simple solution is a CVT. Simple and lightweight! The centrifugal clutch looks promising on the outside. If the math pans out, it may be a solution.

1). The hydraulic drive is too heavy and much to complex for this type of motorcycle. It's been done with smaller 2WD motorcycles using gasoline engine. This bike is more like a 2 wheeled tractor with a 25mph topspeed. The drive will not produce enough speed to make the motorcycle fast enough for street use, unless a much larger platform is used.

2). The KLR650 does not provide enough room for a separate transmission. It's a great idea but there is just not enough room for it. The one possibility would be the Harley Ultima transmission but it would need to be installed on it's side to work. Standing the transmission on it's side may or may not work. Proper oiling would be the issue. I'm not willing to spend over $1600 to find out. My engine has both a pull start and an electric starting system.

3). Taper grinding the crankshaft is also not an option. I'm not willing to do this! My engine has already been purchased and is here. The engine has a 1" straight shaft w/keyway. The solution needs to fit my engine. The 3/4" jackshaft, bearing, sprockets, etc.. have also been purchased. My engine makes 13hp and almost 30ft/lbs of torque. I've looked at other engines. The VW isn't even close to being small enough to fit. Most of the other engines: Kubota, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton are much too larger for what I have in mind. The power to weight ratio of these engines compared to what I have doesn't make any sense. I have looked at them all!

4). Diesel/Electric is something that would be keen to try. I have a hub mounted electric motor that would work. It's unfortunately a DC motor and requires a 10kW genset and costs $1300. Packaging and weight problems would be the end result and would negate any performance gain. The engine, batteries, controller, genset and hub motor are all heavy components. My KTM 950 Adv minus the stock engine with a sidecar frame would be a better platform for something like that.

Keep it coming all good ideas. Comet going out of business really messed me up! Something will turn up!

SamM

SamM

02-02-2010, 09:55 PM

The hydraulic system is very promising. Just not for this motorcycle. The frictional losses in this type of drive are very low. Something on the order of 3 to 5%. Meaning they run almost friction free. There is actually a new motorcycle on the market with a fluid drive. The Honda DN-01 has a fluid drive system. Honda uses the fluid driven motor to drive the final drive on the DN-01. It's very small but uses a much more powerful gasoline V-twin engine to power the system. We will see more of these systems in the future! :wink:

SamM

FastDoc

02-02-2010, 10:39 PM

waynev

02-02-2010, 11:23 PM

Well if it makes you feel better we run centrifugal clutches on these cars that i used to build, 440cc and 570cc 2 stroke sled engine on a poor little centrifugal clutch, usually only the bushing wears out and is replaced a few times a year. The only other part that sucks is your stuck with one gear ratio.

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu188/waynebrandy/CAPKE1D7.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu188/waynebrandy/IMG_0128.jpg

SamM

02-03-2010, 04:39 PM

Someone posted a link to GoKartSupply.com earlier and asked if I had checked with them. I did and they have been sold out of the Comet Series 500 CVT for quite sometime now. Today, I decided to make a followup call to them to see if they were working on a replacement for the 500. Awesome news! Just got off the phone with Chet at GoKartSupply.com. They are having the Comet Series 500 duplicated in Taiwan right now. As Chet explained it, there is no one to sue them over it now. The first prototypes are about 8 weeks out and should arrive then for testing. Once any problems are cleared up, I will be buying a new CVT from them. The new Taiwanese 500 CVT will be much cheaper than the Comet version which was almost $650. Quality will be the same. It's made from stamping steel and cast aluminum. It's hard to mess that up. The Driven pulley on the 500 is much bigger than a normal Driven pulley. This requires the final drive and brake caliper to be reversed from their stock locations. I have that problem worked out. With the right combination of parts the 500 offered a 81:1 overdrive ratio. The new CVT will be the same.

My reason for wanting to use a CVT transmission in the Diesel KLR is cost and simplicity. The side benefit is that it will make the bike operate automatically. My intent isn't to build an automatic motorcycle. My intent is to build a diesel powered motorcycle. Just to clear that up!

Thanks for all the interesting discussion. Keep it up. I will post updates as I can!

SamM

waynev

02-03-2010, 04:57 PM

SamM

02-03-2010, 05:22 PM

Hoffco/Comet got caught in a classic blunder. They failed to see the writing on the wall and diversify. When their last big client John Deere decided to buy their CVTs from China, Hoffco/Comet was left without a chair when the music stopped. It's sad to hear about. Thankfully, their products will be copied now. Sadly, they can't do anything about it!

In today's ecomony, we hear more and more stories like this everyday. Briggs & Stratton is another one. The company moved manufacturing to China. Someday, we will hopefully see manufacturing swing back our way. As Chinese workers demand more pay to fuel their desire for a more Western lifestyle and as fossil fuel costs go up. It will cost too much to bring Chinese products into the US. That's going to take some time though. I fear the next casualties will be the US automakers. The Chinese are poised to take over the US car market. In a few years, we will witness it first hand.

SamM

Reveeen

02-03-2010, 09:03 PM

Someday, we will hopefully see manufacturing swing back our way. SamM

Sadly I disagree with you on this one. At some point, when all the decent jobs have gone offshore, and our system crashes, because anyone working is stuck in a service industry low paying job, the Chinese will stop doing business with us, because our money, if we have any, will be worth nothing. Then, and only then, will manufacturing start up, I just hope that by that time we haven't lost the skills, and technology, to manufacture.

The part of this that burns me is: Hoffco/Comet CVT worth $650, cheap copy manufactured in China probably for under $50, I wonder how much you will have to pay for the thing?

(when I go to a store and look at a pair of Chinese made shoes costing over $100 I know in the back of my mind that someone somewhere likely paid $5 for them)

SamM

02-03-2010, 10:41 PM

The part of this that burns me is: Hoffco/Comet CVT worth $650, cheap copy manufactured in China probably for under $50, I wonder how much you will have to pay for the thing?

Well, the copy will be made in Taiwan R.O.C. which isn't exactly the same country as P.R.C. (China). In fact, it's a different country and an island. Taiwan is a disputed territory of the P.R.C. and a US ally. It's not likely to cost $50. That's very low. I'd say it's going to be more than half the cost of the Comet, probably much more than half.

What I might consider is buying a used Comet Series 500 CVT. Now that spare parts will be available from GoKartSupply.com. Any parts that I would need in the future could be purchased from them. My real concern was the availability of spare parts, if I did find a Comet 500. That's no longer an issue.

One thing is certain. Anytime greed is involved the outcome will not be good. That's for sure! What's happening is that all of these companies are moving offshore to increase their profits. The cost of the foreign sourced product does not go down though. Only the profits increase. Pure GREED! This is a direct result of our countries move into a post-Christian society.

SamM

SamM

02-03-2010, 10:55 PM

Since we are on the subject. Here's what burns me. What is with these auto manufacturers building and trying to sell us nothing but SUVs and trucks that cost $40,000? Who buys these things? I see them going up and down the road all day. Where do these people work that they can afford vehicles that cost upwards of $40,000? I have a great job and an above average income. My wife is an accountant that also does very well. Together we make a lot of money and our homes are paid for. We are just not willing to spend $700 to $800 a month on a vehicle. When are they going to make something affordable that I'll buy? :roll:

SamM

waynev

02-03-2010, 11:28 PM

Where do these people work that they can afford vehicles that cost upwards of $40,000?
SamM

Probably at a bank, they get all the big bonuses.

Weldangrind

02-04-2010, 02:09 AM

Or, sadly, they just keep restructuring debt. That's what happens when people become slaves to marketing.

Reveeen

02-04-2010, 04:00 AM

[quote]
This is a direct result of our countries move into a post-Christian society.
Where do these people work that they can afford vehicles that cost upwards of $40,000?
SamM

I'm not sure what "post-Christian" has to do with it (having never been a Christian).

Nobody seems to own anything any more. As soon as their major asset(s) increase in value (in most cases their house) they race to the nearest lending establishment and "take the money out". Used to be, you "stretched" to buy your house, the longer you lived there, the easier it got, as your financial conditions improved, now it seems, most are constantly "robbing peter to pay paul" their entire lives. So no, most can't afford $40,000 vehicles, they have been led to believe they can, by those lining up to take advantage of them. Canadians are a little more conservative than Americans in this respect, but most in either place are "on the hook" for everything they will earn their entire lifetime, just don't get sick, or become unemployed.

SamM

02-04-2010, 08:38 AM

No matter what many are led to believe America was founded on Christian principles and ideas. Why do you think there is prayer before every government assembly? The government was founded to included God, not exclude God. There is no separation of Church and State. It was never written that way. It has been changed into that by ungodly people that failed to realize where Americas blessing came from and lied about it to the public. American has moved away from God and Godly values and we are now in a post-Christian society. Meaning that we are moving away from those values. You don't have to believe me. Check the facts for yourself.

Well, that description of Americans doesn't apply to me as I don't live like that. My debt is very small. I'm currently paying back the money I borrowed to buy the windows and doors for my new house. About 5k. After that, I have another small debt to pay and I am free and clear! Can't wait! My plan is to drop out of the system completely. I'm looking seriously into investing in Gold for my retirement. Wish I would have done it 10 years ago! So does everyone else!

Reveeen,
Really! I'll pray for you! There is a time of visition for everyone. If God starts coming to the forefront of your mind and thoughts, you'll know what I mean!

SamM

katoranger

02-04-2010, 08:42 AM

I think the taiwan clutch will be around $500, but will be just as good as the comet product.

Well, If the US automaker would build something I want I would be happy to buy also.

I would like a suburban type vehicle with a smaller version of the duramax

Reveeen

02-04-2010, 12:35 PM

Reveeen,
Really! I'll pray for you! There is a time of visition for everyone. If God starts coming to the forefront of your mind and thoughts, you'll know what I mean!
SamM

I did not say: I did not believe in a God, I just choose to find Him/Her in other ways.

SamM

02-04-2010, 04:48 PM

Neither did I and I didn't know He was lost!

SamM

04-15-2010, 12:38 AM

Thought I would post a small update. I have added an aluminum KLR600 rear subframe to the diesel bike's '08 frame. The stock rear subframe mounts still need to be cut from the frame and the USD forks are now on my other KLR. A set of '08 KLR forks will be going back on this frame. As soon as I decide on a rear shock I should have a roller.

I will restart this project after my other KLR is finished.

SamM

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5500/cimg3378.jpg

SpudRider

04-15-2010, 02:09 AM

SamM

04-28-2010, 10:25 PM

Very small update: Here's the bike with the stock '08 KLR650 forks back on it. These are the forks that I will use on the final version. The stock brake will also be used. As soon as I find a new front wheel and a rear shock, I'll have it rolling. I need those to level the bike and start the lower frame mods. My other KLR has been getting all my attention recently. Honestly, I can't wait to get back on this one. It weighs 68.5 lbs as pictured.

I may stick an '07 fuel tank on it and post another pic soon. I think the Diesel KLR is getting tubeless 19/17" wheels and Anakee radials. Haven't decided on a color yet. Probably something camo colored.

Thanks for looking!

SamM

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4290/cimg3585t.jpg

SpudRider

04-28-2010, 10:30 PM

Thanks for the update, Sam. It's nice to see the snow is gone from this photograph! :)

Spud :)

SamM

06-12-2010, 10:32 PM

Just so you guys don't think that I have dropped off the face of the Earth, here are a couple more pictures of the Diesel KLR project bike. It doesn't look like I have done much and I suppose I really haven't. The subframe mounts and rear brake mounts were removed and I have sanded down and cleaned up the frame. The '07 KLR fuel tank is mounted and the seat pan has been modified (cutdown) to fit with the tank. I'll be adding a piece of aluminum to the bottom of seat pan and then reforming the foam and cover to fit it.

A new front wheel has also been purchased. It should be rolling soon.

SamM

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/467/cimg3696.jpg

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/484/cimg3697m.jpg

SpudRider

06-13-2010, 12:44 AM

You're making good progress, Sam. :) We know you have been busy with your other "project." ;)

Spud :)

SamM

06-20-2010, 12:12 PM

Sadly, I must report that the Diesel KLR project has been killed off. :cry:

This saddens me but the bike no longer makes any since for my planned use as a commuter bike. I am currently saving up for a new motorcycle that will be used as my daily driver. The Lightened KLR650 will be my trip and weekend funbike and my KTM 950 is being reassembled, so that I can sell it later. I've had zero interest in any of my 950 parts. After numerous eBay auctions, all I could sell recently was the Renthal handlebars. I was hoping to use money from the sale of KTM parts to finance the diesel project.

I'm also currently in the market for a large truck to use for some heavy hauling that I need to do. All my cash will be going towards to purchase of a new truck. At this time, I need to dump some extras that have been taking up all my time. The diesel project was one of these. The 456cc diesel engine is up for grabs and honestly, I'd let everything that I have for this bike go for a song. If the 950 doesn't sell it could conceivably become a better platform for a diesel conversion later down the road. I'm not planning that but you never know. I like the idea of a more powerful diesel motorcycle. I was very concerned that the Diesel KLR would not meet the criteria required for daily use. I found something that will work much better for me and that actually does better than the estimated 120+mpg economy of the diesel project.

When I get that bike I will report back here on how it does. I apologize to all of you that have been watching this thread.

SamM

Weldangrind

06-20-2010, 12:35 PM

Don't feel bad Sam. It aint over yet; guys like us will have other opportunities down the road. :D

SpudRider

06-20-2010, 02:59 PM

Don't feel bad Sam. It aint over yet; guys like us will have other opportunities down the road. :D
X2! Thank you for all the great reports, Sam; we enjoyed them very much. :)

Spud :)

Jim

06-20-2010, 08:22 PM

That's too bad to hear.

katoranger

03-21-2011, 08:35 PM

Since SamM is back around lately we need an update.

SamM

03-21-2011, 10:16 PM

Well, I still have all of the parts that I previously aquired for the Diesel KLR project. Nothing has been sold and the engine is in my storage unit. The Diesel KLR was put on hold for many reasons but I have recently considered getting back into that build. Today, a part that could only be used on the Diesel arrived. I'm not exactly sure why I bought the Aprilia leftside rear caliper bracket a few days ago. The only bike that I have, that it would work on is the Diesel KLR. So on some deep level, I guess I'm still thinking about it and buying parts for it. All I need to make it a roller is a KLR front wheel.

My other KLR (yes, I have two) is off getting a professional engine swap. The new engine is from a 2008 KLE650 (Versys). We are calling it a KLRE650. If I get back into the Diesel it won't be until the KLRE650 is done. The KLRE is being built in a topsecret lab halfway across the country from me. I have a small fortune tied up in it at this point. Not really! I don't want to have more than one project going on at same time. When I do that I spread the cash too thin and things get even slower. I can't afford to that.

So, the update is that IF I do decided to get back into the Diesel KLR456 project, it will have to be next Fall and Winter. My KLRE builder has offered to make the downtubes for the Diesel. I'll probably take him up on that.

SamM

SpudRider

03-21-2011, 10:29 PM

Thanks for the update, Sam! :)

Spud :)

FastDoc

03-21-2011, 11:36 PM

A KLRE would be the perfect tool for humilating BMWs. 8)

katoranger

03-22-2011, 01:31 PM

Is the versys a twin?

FastDoc

03-22-2011, 01:41 PM

650cc 4V 4 cam V-Twin. :P

katoranger

03-22-2011, 01:47 PM

Sounds like fun.

david3921

03-22-2011, 04:32 PM

Hmmm, KLRE650, where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, here;

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=640772&highlight=versys

SamM

03-22-2011, 05:07 PM

Repsolrider and I started our builds at roughly the same time. He owns a shop and has access to everything there. If you check that thread, you'll see that I have posted in it several times. My plan was to get the KLE engine to fit into a stock 2008 KLR650 frame. At this point, I don't think it's possible. The front engine tab that has the engine numbers stamped into it would need to be removed in order to fit the KLR frame. I'm not willing to do that as I may need to prove where I got the engine at some time.

After my build stalled, a friend that does engine conversions for a living contacted me about the bike. He offered to help and I took him up on it. After all he is a professional. He has other intentions and we are using my bike as the test mule. He plans to build one for himself after mine is completed. Basically, he's doing the engine conversion and getting it running for me. I will do the rest myself. The KLE650 engine is a game changer. It has 65hp, EFI and a 6-speed transmission. My engine, wiring harness, switch gear, ECU cables and misc parts cost me $1500 total. If you check my 2008 Ligntened KLR650 thread you'll see the donor bike. It weighs 345lbs and have 2008 KX450F USD forks. I did the lightening and the USD conversion myself, so I do have some skills! :lol:

I'll update the other thread with pictures of my 2008 KLRE650 after he sends them to me.

SamM

SamM

05-11-2011, 04:06 PM

A couple of videos of the diesel KLR that I posted about at the beginning of this thread. The bike was sold to the current owner, Guy Compton back in January. He reports a 75mph topspeed. He also reports that the CVT slips a bit going uphill. My plan would be to use a bigger CVT to hopefully eliminate the slipping problem. My bike would use a rightside final drive instead of a stock KLR leftside final drive. We already have that worked out.

I'm thinking more and more about this build everyday! :D

SamM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36RXOpk3Apo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73T6ZRBnEcQ&feature=related

AirJunky

02-08-2012, 05:45 PM

Hey Sam,
Just wondering if this project has been dropped again or what.

Regarding your clutch & belt issues, maybe you can check with the custom golf cart crowd on CVT components. There are a number of shops around the country who build custom carts & use Comet clone clutches. Cartpartsplus.com is one who is very knowledgeable on this.

As for Guy's belt slipping problem, same resolution. The clutches can be rebuilt so they engage sooner/later. A short belt could be used, which will increase torque, especially when climbing hills.

Also the use of jack shafts with a CVT & chain drive is very common with custom carts using ATV running gear. Check out a site called buggiesgonewild.com & you will find a few of these projects done successfully..... and well documented.

I hope you will continue with this project. Wish I was closer. Would be a cool project to get into.

FastDoc

02-08-2012, 08:25 PM

Welcome to the forum, AirJunky. You know a lot about this particular niche. :D

SamM

02-08-2012, 08:27 PM

The project has not been dropped but it's on hold until my builder finishes my other project.

SamM

FastDoc

02-08-2012, 08:44 PM

I just rode Roger's KLR about 20 miles in the dirt today including some single track and hill climbing and fell in love with the humble KLR all over again.

As I build experiance I can see the KLR being a good dirtbike.

I can't wait to see it as a diesel.

SpudRider

02-08-2012, 11:09 PM

The project has not been dropped but it's on hold until my builder finishes my other project.

SamM
I'm glad to hear you still intend to complete this project, Sam. Please do keep us updated! :)

Spud :)

Weldangrind

02-09-2012, 03:38 PM

Hey Sam! Good to hear from you.

Son of Weldangrind and I recently picked up an old KLR250 with a blown motor, so we're now faced with either a rebuilld / replacement engine or a diesel transformation.

We're in no hurry, so we'll hope for further updates from you.

FastDoc

02-09-2012, 04:01 PM

Great find on the KLR Weld. We eagerly await its repair.

I wonder if a KLX300 engine would fit...

SamM

02-11-2012, 11:08 PM

It's good to talk with you guys. I've been busy with some other projects, of the gun sort. Just bought a Bushmaster ACR that I have transformed into something VERY cool. Of course, I lightened it down to 7lbs and I'm now doing caliber conversions for it. I plan to shoot 5.56X45, 5.45X39, 6.8SPC and 7.62X39 out of it shortly. We may do .300BLK, 7.62X40WT and 6.5 Grendel conversions too! I also like the 6X45 and would love to have one of those for it.

Today, I looked at a 2000 Husqvarna TE610. It's at a shop and the owner is asking just a bit too much for it. I'm going to make them an offer on Monday. They know I'm serious about it. So, maybe I'll have another project bike. My plan is to just clean it up and ride it! :lol: Yeah right!

Still waiting on the KLRE650 to be finished!

Later,

Sam

SamM

02-11-2012, 11:13 PM

Here you go! It's basically a Magpul Masada. It has Magpul logos all over it. Once Remington releases their civilian version, I'll buy one to get the Remington upper with the Remington roll mark.

SamM

With ELCAN Specter DR sight
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/5195/cimg0503.jpg

The 6.5lb version with a .223 Wylde barrel
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2922/cimg0550e.jpg

SpudRider

02-12-2012, 01:19 AM

Ahhhhhh! Guns and motorcycles! Thanks for posting the update, Sam! :D

Spud :)

FastDoc

02-13-2012, 12:00 AM

Love the guns. :P

Masada is one of the most important places in the military world of history. Is it an Israeli unit?

I've built a few AR's but nothing fancy. :wink:

FastDoc

02-13-2012, 12:01 AM

Oh yeah, and those Husky's rock. My neighbor has one. Beat to heck but rides great. Pretty light out of the box too, BTW. :wink:

Weldangrind

02-13-2012, 10:30 PM

Pretty light out of the box too, BTW. :wink:

Not likely by Sam's standards.

:lol:

FastDoc

02-13-2012, 10:55 PM

Sam needs a trails bike with a diesel engine. :wink:

Weldangrind

02-14-2012, 12:47 AM

I'm thinking mountain bike with a diesel.

SamM

02-14-2012, 08:40 AM

I'm thinking mountain bike with a diesel.

Now you're talkin'! :wink: I don't think it would be fast enough though.

The sight on the ACR is the coolest thing ever. It's made by Ernst Leitz and Raytheon. Yeah, the Patriot Missile guys. It's not a variable but goes from 1X to 4X with the flip of a switch. Very nice. The sight also has a BDC built into the reticle. Anyway, it great fun and I really like it.

My plan is to slim down my collection to just a few high-tech weapons that shoot multiple calibers. My next rifle is a DTA SRS.

SamM

SpudRider

02-14-2012, 03:28 PM

If you have time to start a rifle thread in our Miscellaneous Forum, I'm sure many of us would enjoy seeing your firearms, Sam. :)

Spud :)

SamM

02-15-2012, 11:56 AM

Sounds good! Probably won't get to it until later tonight or tomorrow. I was working on V-Day, so I have to make up some time with my wife! :wink:

SamM

SamM

10-06-2012, 07:13 AM

Hey everyone!

Just want to report that all of my other bike projects are over and done with. The KLRE650 is not going to be finished. Too any issues to overcome. That's why I farmed it out in the first place.

My KLX250SF is up for sale! It is listed here in the For Sale Section.

The KLR456 Diesel is back on. I plan to purchase a Harley-Davidson Ultima 5-speed transmission and install it behind the diesel engine. The frame will need to be stretched several inches to fit the tranny but that should not be a big deal. I have a plan for that. The frame will be cut in two and a second frame and heavy-duty tubing will be use to graft them together and make a longer frame. The first frame has already been cut. A new build table is going together and everything will go together on the table. I think the Diesel KLR is the better project anyway.

The Diesel KLR will require a new header but an FMF muffler for a KX450F should work well, as it is sized perfectly for the engine. My next move is to buy the Ultima transmission. using a CVT transmission presented too many problems. The biggest being a limited topspeed.

This is now the only project that I have.

Stay tuned!