more bad news for me

[phil]

well i found out today that jet moto isnt going to be getting any more atvs and are now dealing with parts and something else like dishes but i forgot, so now the big question whos next?? is china going down the american drain i read a article a while back in dealernews that a LOT of china imports were seized the article also mentioned cf moto was hurt by this, now i know a lot of you didnt see it but the indy show looked like it was the cf moto show they had more advertising than anyone and everyone else combined, now the big question, i know very few will respond to this, either you hate me or just dont like me a lot :cry: but whatever reason, the question is who do i look for to supply atvs mostly under 150cc :?:

[TurboT]

Phil,

I'm not sure why you think everyone dislikes you. I've never seen anyone here bad mouth you.

Have you used Alibaba to source any suppliers? Perhaps you can buy some and brand your own product?

Have you reached out to Tao Tao? I have some contact details for them here in Canada if you like, and I think he deals with US dealers as well, or can tell you who to speak to.

-TT

[phil]

really i dont think that i was just fishing for some help i try not to keep things too serious most of the leads i get i later forget as once i find a decent product with people (distributor) that are half way honest i dont look any more

[TurboT]

Phil,

I have PM'ed you some contact details. I know a dealer up the street from me sells their products, they look okay, and there has been mention in the forums of them. I spoke to this fellow briefly when I was considering trying to sell some on my own.

-TT

[BDIAgencies]

Phil,

I know you keep saying you are a small player in the biz but in fact you are problably in the same boat as the rest of North America.When you are selling chinese branded motorcycle we are small players compared to the big 4. I'm hearing more and more of chinese branded bikes going by the wayside because they will not honor the warranty or heck even have the parts to cover the warranty. That is why the prices are so cheap because the quality is crap. The dealer makes no money on products and what ever profit they make covers of the fixing anything that is broken!

People(who are not dealers) are the first ones to say that certain Chinese branded bikes are too expensive or they need to be around $1000 before I get one and turn around say its a piece of crap and blame the dealer/company...well guess what you get what you pay for. What has ruined it for this industry is the ebay/direct buy from the importers where the crate is shipped to your door and you do the PDI. People want to take out the middle man(Dealers) to save a few bucks but you need the middle man to create the after the sale support you need.

I have a question to throw out to people and I want an honest answer..Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get? If not why?

Saga Canada

[Cal25]

I had a similar choice when I bought my bike. A dealer 25 miles away had one for 1799 assembled. I chose one 200 miles away, in a crate, for less than 1000. The dealer I bought from is still in buisness. The guy 25 miles away is not. I still think I did the right thing FOR ME, after all it is just my oppinion and I hope everybody else does not think like I do anyway :lol:

[TurboT]

This is a good discussion point.

I don't think the warranty is the issue as much as safety and reliability. Nobody wants to take their bike for a ride and get stranded somewhere, or worse, have a catastraphic failure that injures themself.

It's one thing to have a warranty, but to have the bike in the shop all the time getting repaired is an annoyance as well. So, if you pay extra because of the warranty, but it's always in the shop for the warranty repair, you're no farther ahead in the eyes of the consumer.

I believe the crate to the door is another detriment, as you have people assembling mechanical products who have no business doing so, breeding more problems onto themselves, and giving the product more bad feedback. I do believe it's a catch 22 in the chinese motorsport world.

[BDIAgencies]

In my opinion, if someone is offering a good warranty the product is pretty solid to begin with especially if the product is USA DOT/Transport Canada approved..

At the end of the day your still paying less than a Honda or Yamaha

[Reveeen]

Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get?

This kind of *thinking* is flawed and I'm going to tell you why.

If a device is quality built then "warranty" does not come into play. Like the TV you buy at Future Slop (or Burst Buy for our US folks) you go into the store and buy a TV, this TV has a 1 year warranty, for X number of $ you can extend this warranty to 2-5 years. Chances are, if the thing is going to "let the evil smoke out" it is going to happen within 90 days. Motorcycles are much the same.

Parts:
If you were to construct a vehicle from parts it would likely cost 10X+ the retail value of that vehicle. It does not make economic sense not to sell parts, and LOTS of them, whenever/wherever you can. Should the retail price of the vehicle reflect this? I don't *think* so (you should be making more money off of parts than retail vehicle sales).

[Jim]

People(who are not dealers) are the first ones to say that certain Chinese branded bikes are too expensive or they need to be around $1000 before I get one and turn around say its a piece of crap and blame the dealer/company...well guess what you get what you pay for. What has ruined it for this industry is the ebay/direct buy from the importers where the crate is shipped to your door and you do the PDI. People want to take out the middle man(Dealers) to save a few bucks but you need the middle man to create the after the sale support you need.

I have a question to throw out to people and I want an honest answer..Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get? If not why?

Saga Canada

Some people maybe. I would say most members here are pretty aware you get what you pay for. When prices become comparative to Japanese bikes though, the argument for an unproven Chinese bike becomes harder. I wasn't trying to say your bikes should be $1000, just that at $3299 plus whatever fees would be levied on top of that, would be more then I would be willing to pay. The newer price you mentioned seems much more inline for the Canadian market in this area.


.Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get? If not why?

Saga Canada
Me, no. I specifically try to work out a deal where I save money by voiding any warranty at all. These bikes are relatively simple, parts are cheap, and problems are often cheap to repair. I never had any expensive issue with any of my Chinese products, and parts were readily available, and cheap. Sure I could have paid more for warranty and hoped my bike broke, but I didn't feel like gambling.

[phil]

i have been promised the moon before, "we cover parts,labor and we are the biggest" still waiting for that money, sure it think at that price and that warranty i would be intrested. but here is the problem(s) my best sells come from small atvs that have a warranty, parts only for some reasonable time is fine. the people who buy these are looking for a childs first bike and it needs to hold together long enough for them to outgrow or find they have other intrest and they didnt spend $2k finding out, its just smarter. or maybe they just like to have play bikes not racing bikes to ride around, learn to ride, or maybe they cant afford it, when i was young (i was never real small) my parents couldnt buy me a new bike, and didnt care much for me riding anyhow. and i had junk most of the time. thats why i sell these. some buy to save gas thats the street/dual sport bikes and they enjoy riding (i think the gas is a excuse for the mrs.) im sure 2 years of warranty would give a buyer a better sense of security and yes it would help but like i said i need a seller for 150cc and smaller for now. im willing to hear the sales pitch for saga but really im fairly happy with the zongs they are of pretty good quality and they do what they say they will so far. i wouldnt even look if they offered the atvs on the website

[BDIAgencies]

Turbo T,

What bike shop are you talking about that sell Tao Tao products up the street from you in Surrey.

From my understanding Tao Tao is mid to very poor quality and the prices reflect that....Are they not banned from selling to the US....I could be wrong and forgive me if I am. I wouldnt want someone to invest in something and be stuck without knowing...

[TurboT]

Turbo T,

What bike shop are you talking about that sell Tao Tao products up the street from you in Surrey.

From my understanding Tao Tao is mid to very poor quality and the prices reflect that....Are they not banned from selling to the US....I could be wrong and forgive me if I am. I wouldnt want someone to invest in something and be stuck without knowing...

I'm not aware of Tao Tao being banned in the US, only Gio, for reasons I'm not aware of.

Sinclair's Motorsports sells Tao Tao stuff I'm sure, although not branded Tao Tao. She denied it to me but the distributor of Tao Tao listed all dealers in the area selling their products and they were on the list.

I can't honestly say anything of Chinese brand is 'high quality' from what I have seen, but they get the job done for the money you spend. I only have experience with my Gio quads which I'm not unhappy with.

-TT

[Jim]

Sinclairs has built up a negative following on craigslist eh?

I think the Qingqi bikes look like they're really good quality, reflected in price though. I haven't had the chance to own one though, just from checking them out quickly.

[BDIAgencies]

well i found out today that jet moto isnt going to be getting any more atvs and are now dealing with parts and something else like dishes but i forgot, so now the big question whos next?? is china going down the american drain i read a article a while back in dealernews that a LOT of china imports were seized the article also mentioned cf moto was hurt by this, now i know a lot of you didnt see it but the indy show looked like it was the cf moto show they had more advertising than anyone and everyone else combined, now the big question, i know very few will respond to this, either you hate me or just dont like me a lot :cry: but whatever reason, the question is who do i look for to supply atvs mostly under 150cc :?:

Well there is a reason why they are seizing products.
1) The importation of these products was so massive years ago, was too much for the US Government to control....not any more.
2) U.S government is following Canada's regulations so that there is a safer product being brought into the U.S in which there is documented quality control...which brings me to my final point
3) Due to safety and liability concerns,insurance companies will be moving forward and preventing product that is not compliant EPA and DOT/Transport approved to recieve insurance.

Don't be surprised in the next couple of years your insurance will be denied due to improper certification....

That is why you are seeing importers close there doors...they wont invest in the proper documentation....

I hope this sheds some light ....

[Weldangrind]

Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get?

This kind of *thinking* is flawed and I'm going to tell you why.

If a device is quality built then "warranty" does not come into play. Like the TV you buy at Future Slop (or Burst Buy for our US folks) you go into the store and buy a TV, this TV has a 1 year warranty, for X number of $ you can extend this warranty to 2-5 years. Chances are, if the thing is going to "let the evil smoke out" it is going to happen within 90 days. Motorcycles are much the same.

Parts:
If you were to construct a vehicle from parts it would likely cost 10X+ the retail value of that vehicle. It does not make economic sense not to sell parts, and LOTS of them, whenever/wherever you can. Should the retail price of the vehicle reflect this? I don't *think* so (you should be making more money off of parts than retail vehicle sales).

I tend to agree with Reveen, although the question requires separation between dual sport and dirt only. If I wasn't mechanically inclined, I'd be satisfied with a 90 day parts and labour warranty on a dirt bike (I don't think that the big four offer much more). I would also be satisified with a 90 day warranty on a dual sport, as long as I had an option to buy additional coverage within 90 days.

Since I choose to wrench on my own stuff, I'd rather negotiate a lower price and forget the warranty, similar to Jim's response.

[BDIAgencies]

I was curious of peoples opinions about the warranty. All feedback is good whether it is good or bad! That's how we become better as a company.

I agree with 90 days for off road vehicles.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the end. Quality and reliability will be a big issue for Chinese branded bikes when it comes to insurance purposes. The proof is in the pudding.

I couldn't believe how many importers are closing because of this(Both in the US and Canada). Coast to Coast who was the Lifan distributor closed its doors in Canada...

[Jim]

That's not exactly true. Coast to Coast is now known as Quad Tek or Xingyue Canada and is selling a new range of products. For the record, the guys over there were always great to deal with.

I have a suggestion for your parts, offer an easy method to lower the bike. The dual sports are too high for a lot of people, you should have altered suspension linkage available, and so on. I needed to lower my gy6, but I cheated and put in a shorter shock.

[TurboT]

Sinclairs has built up a negative following on craigslist eh?

I think the Qingqi bikes look like they're really good quality, reflected in price though. I haven't had the chance to own one though, just from checking them out quickly.

I think Sinclair's is like everyone else. Trying to do business with a product that requires maintenance, for most, it is okay for the price, with overcomable problems.

The negative person can do 10 times the damage as the 1 positive person. I did read the CL post about the wheels flying off... however they've been in business for quite a while and you can't last that long without mostly happy customers.

[Reveeen]

It seems to me that the Chinese motorcycle, in general, appeals to the "old school" motorcycle type, the guy that isn't afraid to fix/adjust things, and has the ability to do just that. The Japanese (and American) manufacturers have moved (or tried to distance themselves) from "all that", from showrooms resembling museums, to inaccessible service departments, in, at least their own minds, they have grown past that.

Yes, it is in our future to do business with "businessmen", but sometimes these "businessmen" forget the reasons why we can be "bothered" with them.

[FastDoc]

I'm a mechanic (in addition to being a doctor) so I have fun with the CB thing. I can afford as many JB's as I like, and I have more than a few, but I still like the humble little CB.

Also, I like hanging out with you nuts. :roll:

That said, I cashed out of my HSUN while it was still in good shape with 2700 off road km's on it and went for the Q.

Super discount price (my friend sells them) and a 2 year warante, and as I said, my friend is the dealer so I know it will be taken care of.

CB's are just for fun.

[phil]

does the distributor take care of your friend. if you would find out, maybe have him (or you) give me a call or pm. good to know you like hanging out, and to have a friend who is a dr, with a plane, and with my skill riding, and obama medical care i may need more help :lol: thanks again
its all for fun thats why we are here, why we ride

[Weldangrind]

good to know you like hanging out, and to have a friend who is a dr, with a plane, and with my skill riding, and obama medical care i may need more help

:lol:

[PCD]

Just another data point on the warranty issue. All the high end off road bikes are sold sans warranty to the best of my knowledge and people know this up front and still plunk down over 6k for a Honda CRF150 R as I did last year for my 14yr old.
At the other end of the spectrum I've purchased 50cc pocket bikes with 14 day warranty (company sounds like "playnac").

I think the high end line attracts the more knowledable crowd personally. My son does not race, but he had 4 bikes prior to this one and finally earned it.
Lower end sales are driven by price alone and you get people who honestly expect a 1k bike to be like a 5k name brand bike and they get frustrated in the first 15 minutes.

Anyway, my .02 only, and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Pete

[TammySinclair]

Sinclairs has built up a negative following on craigslist eh?

I think the Qingqi bikes look like they're really good quality, reflected in price though. I haven't had the chance to own one though, just from checking them out quickly.

I think Sinclair's is like everyone else. Trying to do business with a product that requires maintenance, for most, it is okay for the price, with overcomable problems.

The negative person can do 10 times the damage as the 1 positive person. I did read the CL post about the wheels flying off... however they've been in business for quite a while and you can't last that long without mostly happy customers.

THIS IS AN OFFICIAL WARNING TO ALL THOSE THAT SLANDER SINCLAIR MOTORSPORTS WE ARE MONITORING THESE POSTS.

[SpudRider]

Sinclairs has built up a negative following on craigslist eh?

I think the Qingqi bikes look like they're really good quality, reflected in price though. I haven't had the chance to own one though, just from checking them out quickly.

I think Sinclair's is like everyone else. Trying to do business with a product that requires maintenance, for most, it is okay for the price, with overcomable problems.

The negative person can do 10 times the damage as the 1 positive person. I did read the CL post about the wheels flying off... however they've been in business for quite a while and you can't last that long without mostly happy customers.

THIS IS AN OFFICIAL WARNING TO ALL THOSE THAT SLANDER SINCLAIR MOTORSPORTS WE ARE MONITORING THESE POSTS.
Every forum member has the right to express his opinion regarding any vendor. These statements are not slander. :roll:

Spud

[Jim]

Excuse me members of the Sinclair business, I would suggest that you attempt to behave here, or your posting privileges will be revoked.

[frostbite]

Users TammySinclair and Gordy have been banned. We will not tolerate threatening and rude behaviour.