Fun with TurboT's Gio Beast

[Weldangrind]

T left me alone with his quad, and I got bored.

I chopped the hideous (and heavy) stock muffler off of the pipe, flush with the end of the muffler. The muffler corrects the angle of the pipe, so a flush cut was the best move for future consideration (more on that later). I intend to experiment with a Gio muffler that is intended for a 125 Pit Bike. That sounds kinda small, but the pipe diameter actually matches the Beast. I have experience with the Pit Bike muffler, and it's a hot rod piece.

Here's the side view of the chopped pipe. I kind of like it this way, but it would likely start the carb and filter on fire.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Choppedpipeside.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Choppedpipeside.jpg)

It's deceiving from that angle. Here's the pipe from the rear.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Choppedpiperear.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Choppedpiperear.jpg)

Here's the future consideration I spoke of. T might want a Monster muffler installed eventually, and here's a mock-up of one I had laying around.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Monsterpipeside.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Monsterpipeside.jpg)

I entertained the thought of just attaching the muffler to the chopped pipe and calling it a day, but it'll likely hit the tire on suspension compression, and there's nothing to attach it to.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Shortpipeanglerear.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Shortpipeanglerear.jpg)

Dig that stinger look.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Shortpipeangleside.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Shortpipeangleside.jpg)

I decided to weld in a piece of pipe to connect the chopped pipe and the Pit bike muffler. I attached the muffler to the rear rack mount via the supplied clamp. That welding blanket is made by Levis.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Shortpipesidefinal.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Shortpipesidefinal.jpg)

Here's the rear view. It looks straight. Sorta.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Shortpiperearfinal.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Shortpiperearfinal.jpg)

I'll fire it up tomorrow and find out just how obnoxious it is. Stay tuned.

[TurboT]

YOU ANIMAL! WHAT'D YOU DO TO MY QUAD??!?! :evil:

[Weldangrind]

Now I'm gonna chop your old muffler into tiny pieces for the entertainment of the forum.

Teach you to leave your quad at my house.

[TurboT]

Now I'm gonna chop your old muffler into tiny pieces for the entertainment of the forum.

Teach you to leave your quad at my house.

Well you know I'm here for the entertainment and learning of others. :)

Looks good chap. Can't wait to hear that pipe sing, maybe we'll get flames too?? :)

[anthonyfa18]

i was thinking of doing the same thing puting a 125cc dirt bike exhuast. got any sound clip of your exhuast??? how does the power feel

[Weldangrind]

Battling a no-start issue as we speak. I thought I found it in the plug wire, but still no joy.

Further bulletins as events warrant. :D

[waynev]

Grab the Brake.........lol

[anthonyfa18]

Battling a no-start issue as we speak. I thought I found it in the plug wire, but still no joy.

Further bulletins as events warrant. :D

try to play with you kill switch that what happens to mine or check your spark plug if it is not full of gas that happen to me to.

[TurboT]

You need to grab the brake to start these?? 8O

That quads been a bit of a beotch to start since I got it.

[anthonyfa18]

You need to grab the brake to start these?? 8O

That quads been a bit of a beotch to start since I got it.

not only thes atv a lot of new ones too my uncle has a 2008 ds450x and he has to hold the brake and the clutch to start it

[waynev]

Safety 1st...

[Weldangrind]

TurboT's kidding; it's his quad. The brake switch has been confirmed by the brake light and spark (yes, tried other plugs). I think that the new muffler has leaned it right out. Anyone have an idea about how much I should drill out the idle jet? The stocker is a 20.

While on that topic, I'd like similar info on the main jet (currently a 100). I realize that I can buy these, but everything is closed right now. I know that Keihin carbs have a direct metric relationship, but I'm not sure if a Mikuni 100 means 1.00mm.

[yozalo]

It this the stock or performance 125 pipe.

[anthonyfa18]

TurboT's kidding; it's his quad. The brake switch has been confirmed by the brake light and spark (yes, tried other plugs). I think that the new muffler has leaned it right out. Anyone have an idea about how much I should drill out the idle jet? The stocker is a 20.

While on that topic, I'd like similar info on the main jet (currently a 100). I realize that I can buy these, but everything is closed right now. I know that Keihin carbs have a direct metric relationship, but I'm not sure if a Mikuni 100 means 1.00mm.

play with the carb just rich it a bit it will start

[waynev]

If it won't start with full choke then i doubt the idle jet is your problem, unless it's plugged. I must asked if you have washed it lately?, everytime i wah my son's 50cc it won't start til 24hrs later, there fuel, spark but it just won't start til the next day, time for some dielectric grease for me.

[Weldangrind]

Yozalo, yes, it is the 125 Perormance Pit Bike muffler.

waynev, the quad has been nice and cozy in my shop for some time, without getting wet. It was running on the weekend after the 30mm Mikuni installation, but it hasn't started yet with the new pipe.

[anthonyfa18]

you just need to adjust the carb

[Weldangrind]

Success! It runs.

Prior to success, I had removed the carb and blown air through the passages, and tried the air / fuel screw all the way to 3.5 turns out. As previously mentioned, I think there was a spark plug wire issue, so I swapped it for an NGK cap and wire. Still no joy.

I took the carb off (again), and this time I removed the main jet and the idle jet, along with the float valve and seat to make sure that nothing blocked the passages. There was nothing in there; no dirt, no casting flash, nothing.

I read linuxman's post (http://www.chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8904) about his experience with a 30mm Mikuni, and it seemed reasonable that the 100 main jet was the culprit. After some measuring, I discovered that the main jet and the float valve seat are metric references (100 means 1.00mm). I'm not so sure about the idle jet, because it necks down inside, so you can't likely modify it by drilling it out.

1.00mm winds up right between a #60 and a #61 drill bit. Following linuxman's advice, I wanted to get closer to 1.05mm, so I drilled out the main jet to 1.04mm using a #59 drill bit (0.041"). A #58 bit would have opened up the jet to 1.07mm, and I don't want to go that far yet.

Upon adjusting the air / fuel screw to 2.5 turns out and re-installing the carb, it fired right up. It still takes the better part of five minutes to properly warm up, but it runs. Sounds mean with that new exhaust, too. 8)

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/th_Beastruns.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view&current=Beastruns.flv)

[TurboT]

Sweet mate. Sounds good.

Good investigative work. I did a little hunting for jet charts, and found nothing useful to me other than suspected you were correct to need to jet it.

[PCD]

Sweet mate. Sounds good.

Good investigative work. I did a little hunting for jet charts, and found nothing useful to me other than suspected you were correct to need to jet it.

Was drilling out the jet a better soloution than moving the clip?

Even if you could have fixed it by moving the clip I would understand fixing the root cause first, that way you still have all your clip adjustment open to you. Am I on the right track or did you HAVE to do the jet?

Yes, i have a #41 bit :) :)

[TurboT]

Sweet mate. Sounds good.

Good investigative work. I did a little hunting for jet charts, and found nothing useful to me other than suspected you were correct to need to jet it.

Was drilling out the jet a better soloution than moving the clip?

Even if you could have fixed it by moving the clip I would understand fixing the root cause first, that way you still have all your clip adjustment open to you. Am I on the right track or did you HAVE to do the jet?

Yes, i have a #41 bit :) :)

Hey Pete,

W&G can confirm, but I believe the clip was at it's richest setting when we first put it on... so there was no wiggle room there which left the jet.

I never looked at the clip, but I distinctly remember W&G doing so and saying as a reminder to himself and me it was at the richest setting.

Of course, now he'll come around and tell us that wasn't the case, and that I had been sniffing way too much gas fumes to remember my name, let alone the needle setting. 8O

[PCD]

Sweet mate. Sounds good.

Good investigative work. I did a little hunting for jet charts, and found nothing useful to me other than suspected you were correct to need to jet it.

Was drilling out the jet a better soloution than moving the clip?

Even if you could have fixed it by moving the clip I would understand fixing the root cause first, that way you still have all your clip adjustment open to you. Am I on the right track or did you HAVE to do the jet?

Yes, i have a #41 bit :) :)

Hey Pete,

W&G can confirm, but I believe the clip was at it's richest setting when we first put it on... so there was no wiggle room there which left the jet.

I never looked at the clip, but I distinctly remember W&G doing so and saying as a reminder to himself and me it was at the richest setting.

Of course, now he'll come around and tell us that wasn't the case, and that I had been sniffing way too much gas fumes to remember my name, let alone the needle setting. 8O

Right, thanks there Turbo, I totally forgot our Mikuni carbs already came on the richest setting. Bigger main or drill it out would be the next options.

Sigh..the older I get the more "seniors moments" I have....

[waynev]

One thing to remember on the mikuni carb is the main jet only controls the mixture from 3/4 to full throttle, that's it, and the only way to check if it's proper is a wide open run and kill the engine at full throttle and then inspect the spark plug.
Also most engines will like 1 main jet size up or down per 7 deg C temperature change, so if it runs good in the summer at 20C on a 100 jet, then when it gets to -1 you should be running a 130.

[Weldangrind]

Waynev, that's almost exactly what I was struggling with. It has been my understanding that the main jet controls the mixture at tip-in, but now I'm inclined to question that.

The main jet is (as we're all aware) directly below the slider needle. As soon as the throttle is opened, the needle is pulled up from the jet, uncovering the orifice. It seems to me that if the orifice is a larger diameter than stock, more fuel would flow upon opening the throttle (I think we can all agree so far). The thing that hadn't occurred to me is that since the idle speed screw simply lifts the slider, the main jet is uncovered even at idle.

To support this, I made no other mods and the quad fired right up. It still has a bit of a 'hunting' idle upon blipping the throttle, but I think that's something else. Maybe I just crutched it, I dunno.

I noticed a mis-match between the intake tube insulator and the new Mikuni, inside and out. A person would need to hog out the ID of the insulator to get maximum benefit from the new carb. The o-ring on the Mikuni isn't completely covered by the outside of the insulator either. The easiest fix would be an insulator that is designed for a 30mm Mikuni or Keihin round slider carb.

I'm not convinced that the stock insulator isn't creating a vaccuum leak. Anybody else have idle trouble?

Maybe a bigger idle jet will solve the idle issue; I'll see about picking one up today. The symptom remains that when you blip the throttle, it takes 2-3 seconds to come back to idle. That's despite re-routing the throttle cable to a more relaxed radius. BTW, it had the same symptom with the smaller carb, but it was worse.

Pete, to be clear, I used a #59 bit, which is 0.041".

Cheers!

[waynev]

Waynev, that's almost exactly what I was struggling with. It has been my understanding that the main jet controls the mixture at tip-in, but now I'm inclined to question that.

The main jet is (as we're all aware) directly below the slider needle. As soon as the throttle is opened, the needle is pulled up from the jet, uncovering the orifice. It seems to me that if the orifice is a larger diameter than stock, more fuel would flow upon opening the throttle (I think we can all agree so far).
Cheers!

Sorry W&G i can't agree with that statement, the larger main jet will not flow more fuel until you are over 3/4 throttle, it is the taper on the needle jet and the jet needle that controls the flow from 1/4 to 3/4's. Think of it this way your needle jet/jet needle is a 1/2" garden hose, even if you hook up a 2" hose to the 1/2" hose it won't flow any faster.


There's a nice explanation and a chart of throttle postions and what is the control for eash position here, http://www.iwt.com.au/mikunicarb.htm

[TurboT]

I'm not convinced that the stock insulator isn't creating a vaccuum leak. Anybody else have idle trouble?

Maybe a bigger idle jet will solve the idle issue; I'll see about picking one up today. The symptom remains that when you blip the throttle, it takes 2-3 seconds to come back to idle. That's despite re-routing the throttle cable to a more relaxed radius. BTW, it had the same symptom with the smaller carb, but it was worse.

Cheers!

Hey D,

Since we're on the subject of vacuum leaks have a look at where the intake manifold bolts to the head as well. While we were installing the carb I was looking around and noticed there seems to be a bad fit between those two items. I was looking at it and wondering if it was a problem, then got distracted by something else. It might be nothing, but might need a little goop there. :)

When I mentioned the racing idle and slow return to idle with Pop's, the first thing out of his mouth was vacuum leak, while we assumed it was the throttle cable I didn't think too much of it agian.

I noticed in your video the slow return to idle, but had assumed you had not rerouted the cable until I read this.

[anthonyfa18]

nice video good job on that exhaust mod

[Weldangrind]

Sorry W&G i can't agree with that statement, the larger main jet will not flow more fuel until you are over 3/4 throttle, it is the taper on the needle jet and the jet needle that controls the flow from 1/4 to 3/4's. Think of it this way your needle jet/jet needle is a 1/2" garden hose, even if you hook up a 2" hose to the 1/2" hose it won't flow any faster.


There's a nice explanation and a chart of throttle postions and what is the control for eash position here, http://www.iwt.com.au/mikunicarb.htm

Of course your right waynev. I forgot about the needle taper.

I ordered a new idle jet today that is 22.5 instead of the stock 20. It should be in tomorrow, so we'll see if that helps.

T, I intend to remove the insulator completely, since the Hondas don't use one, and the o-ring on the carb should mate nicely with the intake. I'll check the intake to head relationship as well. Does anybody have a favourite method for checking for vaccuum leaks?

BTW, the quad wouldn't start this morning (I didn't try very hard). I made no changes at all from the last time it ran.

[PCD]

Ether, or that staring fluid you used to spray into carbs. The revs will increase if it gets sucked into a leak.

[TurboT]

Ether, or that staring fluid you used to spray into carbs. The revs will increase if it gets sucked into a leak.

Hmm.. sounds like a neat trick.. we would have to get it to stop hunting for idle and racing sitting there too for that to work..

D, no worry on the spacer, could be the problem as it seems to be a bit of a flakey piece anyhow.

What is the jet worth?

[Weldangrind]

Five big ones. You owe me man.

[PCD]

Ether, or that staring fluid you used to spray into carbs. The revs will increase if it gets sucked into a leak.

Hmm.. sounds like a neat trick.. we would have to get it to stop hunting for idle and racing sitting there too for that to work..

D, no worry on the spacer, could be the problem as it seems to be a bit of a flakey piece anyhow.

What is the jet worth?

Yeah, i'm not sure you can even purchase ether any more, but they do sell similar stuff that works the same. On a car it will only get you in the general area, but thats good enough as you can start really looking in that spot.
On these bikes I would imagine you could pinpoint it pretty accuratly.

[TurboT]

Five big ones. You owe me man.

Yikes, I might go bankrupt. :P

[Weldangrind]

As a point of interest (for me anyway), my son's 1980 XR200 has a Keihin 30mm carb that is identical to the Mikuni in almost every way. There are some subtle manufacturing differences, but they're obviously spec'd for the same application.

Knowing that, I took the bowl off of the Keihin today, and found a 108 main jet inside. My recommendation to anyone that is installing a Mikuni on a Beast is to start at that level and work your way up, depending upon stock vs. performance exhaust and air filter.

I intend to install a 110 on T's Beast this weekend, so we'll see how it performs.

[Reveeen]

Does anybody have a favorite method for checking for vacuum leaks?



If you are not "happy" spraying starting fluid at hot running engines, you can try an un-lit propane torch, propane being less flammable than either.

[PCD]

Does anybody have a favorite method for checking for vacuum leaks?



If you are not "happy" spraying starting fluid at hot running engines, you can try an un-lit propane torch, propane being less flammable than either.

Meh...I've been spraying that crap on hot running engines for 30 years to find vacuum leaks. Never had combustion yet, but I suppsose it could happen. I dont know the flash points of ether vs propane but the propane torch isnt a bad idea really. Everyones got one kicking around so it may save a trip to the store.

[Weldangrind]

Sure, I've got a fire extinguisher.

[PCD]

Sure, I've got a fire extinguisher.

One day I'll get so frustrated that I'll try and burn it to the frame...and out of sheer spite it probably wont burn.

[Weldangrind]

Imagine the lovely smoke from the camo / orange / whatever plastic. I'll bet I could see it from my house.

[yozalo]

Weldandgrind, can you tell me how much you got the performance exhaust for your 125cc for. John has them on back order, so it will be coming soon.

[PCD]

Weldandgrind, can you tell me how much you got the performance exhaust for your 125cc for. John has them on back order, so it will be coming soon.

Hey yoz, havent looked at your profile to see your location, but a $2.00 auction win ends up being about $30.00 to my door if I'm too dumb to combine shipping that day.

P.S. I dont think it will work out on your 110ccc, but let us know anyway.

[yozalo]

The 125cc might work if I weld it though. I know that including shipping costs the item ends up being $30 but if I buy other items then I can obviously save on shipping. :P

[PCD]

The 125cc might work if I weld it though. I know that including shipping costs the item ends up being $30 but if I buy other items then I can obviously save on shipping. :P

Oh for sure. There was a method I used once that got me 8 items in the cart, but I think he spotted me on that one and I cant do it anymore, but I can still do 5 easy.

On most items the shipping (Ontario) jumps from 18 bucks to maybe 20 bucks if you add another item, then 22, then 24 or 25, etc.

[TurboT]

The 125cc might work if I weld it though. I know that including shipping costs the item ends up being $30 but if I buy other items then I can obviously save on shipping. :P

Oh for sure. There was a method I used once that got me 8 items in the cart, but I think he spotted me on that one and I cant do it anymore, but I can still do 5 easy.

On most items the shipping (Ontario) jumps from 18 bucks to maybe 20 bucks if you add another item, then 22, then 24 or 25, etc.

Interesting. Dont have too much to complain about then. The most I've paid for shipping was the last order, and that was 13.00.

I'm not sure it has anything to do with multiple items, more about the box size or weight needed for the extra items. I got quoted 13 for shipping for the Monster exhaust, added two CDI's for W&G and the shipping never changed since they fit in the same sized box easily.

[yozalo]

Thats because for live in BC. We live in ON. I don't get why the shipping price increases when you can ship an item using UPS for $18 for up to 5lbs. That means you can put as much items as you can until it reaches 5lbs.

[Weldangrind]

It's all business Yozalo. There is an opportunity to make a little profit at every stage of the game.

BTW, I won the Pit Bike exhaust for $2.00 (I think). I had to buy one and install it before Pete got wise and bought them all. Either him or waynev. :lol:

The Pit Bike exhaust is aluminum at the inlet and outlet, so you can't weld steel to it. What you can do is weld a stepped pipe onto your stock pipe so it will slip into the Pit Bike exhaust. The outside diamter of your pipe will need to be about 1 1/8".

[PCD]

Nope, must have been waynev. I bought all those Monster pipes after I saw the comparison you did.

[Weldangrind]

Ok, much to report.

I decided to remove the intake tube and carb rather than hope to find a vaccuum leak. TurboT, call your Dad and tell him he's the King. The reason for the leak is that the groove for the o-ring (where the intake tube meets the head) is too deep.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/DeepGroove.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=DeepGroove.jpg)

This shot sorta shows how deep the groove really is.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Sunkeno-ring.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Sunkeno-ring.jpg)

I tried another o-ring from my kit, but it still wasn't quite proud enough. Instead, I stretched a small o-ring into the groove and then placed the stocker overtop.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/O-ringbooster.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=O-ringbooster.jpg)

Here's what it looks like stacked.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Newo-ringproud.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Newo-ringproud.jpg)

It took a bit of coercion to get the o-ring to sit still while I mounted the tube, but it was worth it. There was obvious compression in the o-ring as it was tightened.

Next, I replaced the pilot jet with a 22.5 (vs. the stock 20).

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/225Pilot.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=225Pilot.jpg)

For those who've never removed one, here's where it goes.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/PilotInstall.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=PilotInstall.jpg)

Next up was the new 110 main jet (vs. the stock 100, which I had drilled out to 104).

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/110Main.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=110Main.jpg)

Here's how it's installed.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Maininstall.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Maininstall.jpg)

I also farted around with the insulator that fits between the carb and the intake tube, thinking I might be able to remove it due to the Mikuni o-ring. Nope. Check out the mismatch without the insulator.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Mismatchtop.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Mismatchtop.jpg)

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Mismatchbottom.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Mismatchbottom.jpg)

It's not perfect with the insulator, but it is better.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/InsulatorTop.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=InsulatorTop.jpg)

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Insulatorbottom.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Insulatorbottom.jpg)

Then I investigated why there is an annoying exhaust leak at the head pipe. Guess what? No gasket. Good thing I have some in stock, eh T?

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Exhaustfail.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Exhaustfail.jpg)

I also noticed how much the welding in the head pipe restricts flow.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Headpipebefore.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Headpipebefore.jpg)

So, I ported it. It's hard to tell from this photo, but the exhaust no longer necks down to less than the head pipe ID. This is also before I shook the grinding crap out.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Headpipeafter.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Headpipeafter.jpg)

I also swapped the front shocks for the new black spring nitrogen shocks. Before bolting in the new shocks, I studied the range of motion of the spindle. With the shock installed in the lowest hole and suspension at full droop, the spindle is on the leading edge of bumpsteer. With the quad on the ground and a rider onboard, it should be at the perfect starting point. Take care to not use the upper mounting hole.

The spindle can travel a full 3.5" upward before entering bumpsteer territory. Since the nitrogen shock only has a (theoretical) range of 3" until it hits the bumpstop, it's a good choice.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/35Inches.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=35Inches.jpg)

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/Articulation.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=Articulation.jpg)

I couldn't hardly compress the stock shocks by hand on the floor at all. The nitrogen shocks compress much more easily, and there is obvious damping on the rebound.

After getting it all back together, I hit the key and it fired right up. The vaccuum leak seems to be gone. I couldn't let it warm up because it was too late to make that much noise.

Lots of progress tonight. I love coffee. :D

[TurboT]

Good grief D!

You've been busy! I was going to PM you tonight to tell you not to kill yourself with that thing, that I could come tomorrow and wrench on it. Looks like there's not much more to do.

I would mention my Dad is the King's Advisor, since he's sitting in his basement in his big chair while you do all the work, Your Highness.

Those are some great shots too. Excellent tech data and advice for the DIY types who haven't done much of that stuff.

Now I'm dying to come play with it.

Thanks for the great post and all the effort. I'm going to have to buy you lunch and beer.

[PCD]

Nicely done.

Love the pics of the carb. Very useful, thanks.

Now with all this jetting business done, go beat the snot out of it please and tell us how it responded to the jetting change and whether the vac leak was the culprit, re: hunting idle.

I spent most of the evening puttering around & fixing up a multitude of small stuff (adjust shocks, change oil, build new battery cage, change oil on mini, install NGK wire & plug on mini, replace 2 of 3 nuts on beast tailight mount, re-route choke cable on beast, etc....little crap that needed doing) I'd come in every 20 minutes to warm up and post :) :)

[Weldangrind]

I'd love to go beat on it. It's liberating to chop / cut / rebuild a quad when you don't own a bolt in it. :D

Once I get the exhaust back on, I'll fire it up and see how the idle is. I'm expecting much better performance.

On the warming up comment: I wear nitrile gloves in the shop, and it's like having a wetsuit on your hands. They allow for decent dexterity as well, certainly enough that I can replace carb jets. My hands are toasty the entire time (granted, it wasn't much below zero here last night, but still). I even slip a pair on before putting on winter gloves to go shovel snow. Works like a charm after about 10-15 minutes.

On another note, I didn't do any empirical testing of the old shocks vs. nitrogen shocks because I couldn't secure them in my press. I want to be able to press them safely, so I don't get dead. My next welding project will be to make a fixture that will accept one end of the shock and hold it firmly while I operate the press. Should be handy for shock mods.

[TurboT]

Is it liberating to chop and cut something you don't own, or beat on something you don't own? :)

You have a significant time investment re ownership there. I share. Use it whenever you want. I'm confident if anything breaks it'd be looked after anyhow. :)

[PCD]

I'd love to go beat on it. It's liberating to chop / cut / rebuild a quad when you don't own a bolt in it. :D

Once I get the exhaust back on, I'll fire it up and see how the idle is. I'm expecting much better performance.

On the warming up comment: I wear nitrile gloves in the shop, and it's like having a wetsuit on your hands. They allow for decent dexterity as well, certainly enough that I can replace carb jets. My hands are toasty the entire time (granted, it wasn't much below zero here last night, but still). I even slip a pair on before putting on winter gloves to go shovel snow. Works like a charm after about 10-15 minutes.

On another note, I didn't do any empirical testing of the old shocks vs. nitrogen shocks because I couldn't secure them in my press. I want to be able to press them safely, so I don't get dead. My next welding project will be to make a fixture that will accept one end of the shock and hold it firmly while I operate the press. Should be handy for shock mods.

Yeah, I'm always cautious around em as well. Pretty easy to catch one in the face and spit out a mouthful of chiclets.

[Weldangrind]

Is it liberating to chop and cut something you don't own, or beat on something you don't own? :)

Yes. :D

You have a significant time investment re ownership there. I share. Use it whenever you want. I'm confident if anything breaks it'd be looked after anyhow. :)

Thanks man. If it's cool with you, I'd like to take Luke for a ride some day. BTW, the tires with new tubes are mounted on the quad.

[Weldangrind]

Yeah, I'm always cautious around em as well. Pretty easy to catch one in the face and spit out a mouthful of chiclets.

Been there. Didn't like it. Made me sad.

[anthonyfa18]

wow i never thout the exhaust was that bad

[PCD]

That must have been the stock head pipe? On the performance one that ships with the beast performance muffler I didnt see anything near that bad, but maybe I got lucky for once.

[TurboT]

That must have been the stock head pipe? On the performance one that ships with the beast performance muffler I didnt see anything near that bad, but maybe I got lucky for once.

What did I miss here?? :?

[Weldangrind]

That must have been the stock head pipe? On the performance one that ships with the beast performance muffler I didnt see anything near that bad, but maybe I got lucky for once.

What did I miss here?? :?

The porting of the stock head pipe. The collar that is attached to the head pipe was welded on internally, so the weld bead impedes flow. Or, it used to. :D

Yes Pete, that was the stock pipe that I attached the Pit Bike exhaust to. Funny that the Beast performance pipe didn't need porting, because the Monster performance pipe sure did.

[TurboT]

Duh I was still on the shock and chicklets bit.. get it now..

[PCD]

That must have been the stock head pipe? On the performance one that ships with the beast performance muffler I didnt see anything near that bad, but maybe I got lucky for once.

What did I miss here?? :?

The porting of the stock head pipe. The collar that is attached to the head pipe was welded on internally, so the weld bead impedes flow. Or, it used to. :D

Yes Pete, that was the stock pipe that I attached the Pit Bike exhaust to. Funny that the Beast performance pipe didn't need porting, because the Monster performance pipe sure did.

Well, I'm going to wait for an exhaust leak before I pull it off to check again, but now I'm second guessing myself. Its also quite possible the performance piece and the stock piece are made in two different factories, etc, but I just cant imagine me seeing that and not whipping out my fav tool...Mr. Dremel.

[Weldangrind]

Mr. Die Grinder (of the 120 volt family) is much more agressive. :D

Pete, did you have an exhaust gasket? If not, I can point you to an eBay vendor that sells a pack of four for cheap.

Also, do you think you might have a vaccuum leak where the intake meets the head? Just curious. In T's case, it sure explains why the PO couldn't make it run.

[PCD]

Negative on the leaks. I puffed quite a bit of smoke near all suspect areas and it wafted away. Nothing got sucked in that I could see. I have some copper crush washers at work, no gaskets for between pipe and can although I do have material to cut from, but the exhaust on the mini can wait until gio sends me my missing box of hardware. Thanks though!

[MICRider]

Wow! That thing with the intake o-ring is wild! I will have to get mine out for a rip and see how it is now... Seems to be running really well, but have to ride it to tell for sure. If mine is still acting up, I will definitely check that o-ring... Might explain why fiddling with the stock carb made no difference at all in the way it ran. (though I still suspect a float issue on that one) Thanks for letting us know what to look for, would be an elusive thing to find otherwise.

Regards,
Stew

[Weldangrind]

You're welcome Stew. :D

Pete, I didn't ask my question properly. Does your Beast have an exhaust gasket where the pipe meets the head? T's was missing (maybe from the PO).

[TurboT]

You're welcome Stew. :D

Pete, I didn't ask my question properly. Does your Beast have an exhaust gasket where the pipe meets the head? T's was missing (maybe from the PO).

Does your Beast have a gasket there, D?

I know my Mini Beast didn't have one there either. The pipe just slides into the port and is clamped in by a hard metal bracket shaped like a gasket.

[PCD]

You're welcome Stew. :D

Pete, I didn't ask my question properly. Does your Beast have an exhaust gasket where the pipe meets the head? T's was missing (maybe from the PO).

Yes. I got 1 new one when i recieved the beast performance anchor, er, pipe.

Since the bike had zero hours on it (from me) when I changed head pipes, I reused the existing gasket although once crushed I shouldnt have, but it worked.

So I have 1 new, unused one stashed....wouldnt mind 4 though :)

[Weldangrind]

Here's the exhaust gaskets I bought: http://cgi.ebay.ca/HONDA-GL1500-GL1800-VF750-XR650-EXHAUST-GASKET-SET_W0QQitemZ110450398080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorc ycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b75b5380

Search for item #110450398080 if the link is dead, or search for siriusconincnosparts on eBay.

TurboT, yes, our Beast came with an exhaust gasket. It blew out the day you and I were riding and burned a hole in my riding pants. :lol: I secured the bolts on yours with red Loctite when I replaced your gasket.

[Weldangrind]

Stew reminded me about the float level in the PZ30 carbs. I remove the bowl, invert the carb and check to see that the parting line on the float is parallel with the bowl mounting surface. If the parting line isn't parallel, carefully bend the float arm until it is. I also remove the floats and submerge them in water to be sure that they don't leak.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/FloatLevel.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view&current=FloatLevel.jpg)

[Weldangrind]

This fuzzy photo (I took it in the dark) shows the socket head cap screw I installed to replace the too-short bolt, the NGK plug wire, the NGK plug boot and the heat paint on the exhaust pipe.

After welding an extension on the exhaust pipe, I decided it was time to try and preserve the pipe. Brush-on Tremclad flat black heat paint is my preference. I also cleaned the rust off of the heat shields with some 000 steel wool and then shot 'em with a clear spray bomb. Hopefully they stay rust free for awhile. They kinda look like stainless now. Sorta.

I found a loose plug boot on T's quad when I was chasing the vacuum leak, so I swapped it for this NGK I had in stock (I know I could've tightened it, but this was an upgrade opportunity :D ). The NGK wire is much more supple in cold weather than the stocker and this particular boot doesn't have a resistor. Since the plug is a resistor type, I figured we could get away with this boot and not affect the CDI. We'll find out on test and tune day.

That's as close as you're getting to a polished exhaust, T. :lol:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/HeatPaint.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view¤t=HeatPaint.jpg)

[TurboT]

When did you do all this now??

If I knew you'd be wrenching on my unit today I would've come out. Thought you were tied up today..

[Weldangrind]

Leftover stuff from Friday. I was replacing drywall and light fixtures on Saturday and Sunday.

[TurboT]

Leftover stuff from Friday. I was replacing drywall and light fixtures on Saturday and Sunday.

Alright just making sure... don't want you working on my quad when the wife has other plans for you. :)

[anthonyfa18]

Leftover stuff from Friday. I was replacing drywall and light fixtures on Saturday and Sunday.

here r u running the performance cdi on that atv too???? i just got mine but still did not put it on

[TurboT]

Leftover stuff from Friday. I was replacing drywall and light fixtures on Saturday and Sunday.

here r u running the performance cdi on that atv too???? i just got mine but still did not put it on

I don't think it's on yet. Our plan I *THINK* was to see how the carb and exhaust mods made on the power, then install the CDI for an additional check.

I do have one for it though, and it'll be on soon.

I liked how it made my 110cc Mini Beast run though.

[PCD]

Mr. Die Grinder (of the 120 volt family) is much more agressive. :D

Pete, did you have an exhaust gasket? If not, I can point you to an eBay vendor that sells a pack of four for cheap.

Also, do you think you might have a vaccuum leak where the intake meets the head? Just curious. In T's case, it sure explains why the PO couldn't make it run.

I have every air tool known to man...at work :) unfortunatly I do not have a compressor at home so I finesse it with a Dremel or murder it with an angle grinder.

Oh, I tried a pair of those Nitrile gloves, but I cant seem to get them over my ears.....:)

[Weldangrind]

A further update on TurboT's quad (this is at your request, Mizke):

T and I dismantled the rear axle and swingarm of his Beast for service, and we have a few things that are noteworthy. First, just pound both swingarm bushings out from the same side. Find a socket or a piece of tube that matches the OD of the bushing, and give 'er.

Second, we can confirm that the same 1/4" difference occurs with T's rear axle as mine. That is, the axle mounts are 1/4" wider than the mounts on the swingarm. Spacers cut from DOM tube solved that.

Third, the bearings in the axle housing are sealed, but T's were totally dead. So much so that it was difficult to turn the rear axle by hand with the rear wheels removed. I removed the axle from the housing and pounded out the bearings. I'll be picking up new bearings and seals next week, and I drilled and tapped the housing for a zerk. I'm not going to reuse the tube that sits between the bearings, because the housing is stepped inside, meaning that the bearings can only go in so far.

Axle tube with spacer:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/AxleTubeSpacer.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view&current=AxleTubeSpacer.jpg)

Bearing and seal:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/BeastAxleBearings.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view&current=BeastAxleBearings.jpg)

Bare axle housing with step:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/BeastAxleHousing.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view&current=BeastAxleHousing.jpg)

Tapping for 1/4-28 threads (use a #3 bit for the hole size):

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/BeastAxleTap.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view&current=BeastAxleTap.jpg)

New zerk:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/BeastAxleZerk.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Weldangrind/?action=view&current=BeastAxleZerk.jpg)

It's totally worth it to have the #3 bit and 1/4-28 tap. You can buy these items individually at most industrial tool shops. The purpose of the new zerk is to fill the space between the bearings with grease, which displaces water.

[mizke]

thanks dude, nice write up..

question tho how far down in the axle housing do the bearings sit ?

[Weldangrind]

You're welcome. :)

If you look at the photo of the bare axle housing, you'll see the step that is about 1" down. The space from the step to the surface is occupied by the bearing and the seal.

BTW, the replacement seal doesn't need to be exactly the same width as the original; the only things that really matter are ID and OD. I'll report part numbers upon purchasing replacements.

[mizke]

alright as well as posting them here, pm them to me and i will add them to the thread i started with the honda/yamaha part numbers that work with our quad...

can you snap a picture of the whole axle not hte axle housing

[Weldangrind]

Sure, when I reassemble the axle, I'll photograph the whole deal and provide part numbers.

[mizke]

so the actual axle it self is 2 peices ? im just curious cuz looking at the bearings the i.d. part of the bearing looks rather small, so i was just curious about that..

[Weldangrind]

The axle is one long shaft that extends from wheel to wheel. It passes through two bearings in the axle housing, and is only supported in the housing. It will make more sense when I photograph the reassembly, which I'll do after buying new bearings and seals.

[TurboT]

Was going to type up a report and figured it best go here instead of a new thread.

I just finished up a 3 day period of clobbering this quad. Since I've had it, there was always something else to do so I would take it relatively easy on it. After W&G and I's 8 hour adventure on Thursday, it was time to take some of the love back we've been giving.

So the Beast now has a mikuni carb, UNI Air Filter, monster exhaust pipe, performance cdi, ngk plug and plug wire, gio performance front shocks, yamaha swing arm bushings, RK MXZ Chain. (Did I forget anything?)

This thing pulls hard through the RPM range. Exhaust note is just plain wicked sounding in the saddle when hard upshifting under load. Example: Hitting 2nd after a high rpm run in 1st, or 2nd to 3rd etc. Wish I could capture that sound and share it here but hard to do at that speed. The motor is vibration unbalanced mess in first gear, but hit second at speed and it feels smooth and like it should.

I abused this thing hard. My wife rode it, my friends rode it, I rode it with kids two upping in front of me over rough, bumpy ground. I can't give you an hour meter but it was extensive running time over the course of the weekend. I threw the chain ONCE all weekend...and I deserved it. I had it revving hard in first fishtailing over rocks then hit a bump sideways, landed and knocked the chain off. This was at the end of the weekend. Put it back on, went back at it, no more chain coming off. Yes I had a hoot with it.

Some things of note:
Get rid of those crap bolts that hold the swingarm to the axle. Weldangrind and I stripped one putting it back together, and then I lost one at some point over the weekend. I said "f it" and rode on without it, and even then only lost the chain the one time.. but need some better bolts there and perhaps some nuts on the back side of them just to be safe.

The thing is a gas pig. It likes fuel. My YZ 250F doesn't use as much gas as this thing. I can't believe how many times I added fuel to it this weekend...ran out in the middle of the field on me, and then my wife a second time.

The Monster muffler has a restrictor plate inside which is now loose and rattles. I heard a weird noise and looked in the pipe and can see it 'turning' in there and vibrating... might be a sign we're still too restrictive here, and it just might need to come out. :)

My damn brake light housing broke and now my light is dangling there. Just cheap metal frame, it obviously couldn't take the constant 10,000 RPM. :) Easily fixable but it is always 'something.'

My last note on this novel. I cannot recommend Castrol 10/40 ATV oil anymore. I changed the oil today.. thought I should since it was running so hard. The stuff came out looking like sewer water. Wasn't thick at all, dark, and just plain didn't look like anything resembling oil. I'm sure it was thick and nicely golden when it went in there. I know it won't come out looking like it's new but it was the ugliest 'OIL' I've ever changed. It did not hold up well in this motor.

I put in MOTUL 5100 Semi Synthetic 10/40. Thing shifts smooth like butter, hardly any issue in and out of reverse and neutral. It's expensive, but the quad is happier for it.

[mizke]

sounds like you guys had a blast over the weekend.

um castrol 4t oil is a greenish color when fresh, but i am also going to look into the motul 5100 Semi Synthetic 10/40 but i would want to stay full sythetic 4 stroke wet clutch oil.. i always use full synthetic in everything..i wish royal purple woudl come out with some 4 stroke motorcycle oil for use with wet clutchs.. id be buying that stuff the day it comes out

[TurboT]

um castrol 4t oil is a greenish color when fresh, but i am also going to look into the motul 5100 Semi Synthetic 10/40 but i would want to stay full sythetic 4 stroke wet clutch oil.. i always use full synthetic in everything..i wish royal purple woudl come out with some 4 stroke motorcycle oil for use with wet clutchs.. id be buying that stuff the day it comes out

Considering it came out like black greenish WATER I will not be using it again. I'd also like to add, we had an oops a couple weekends ago with the oil filler cap not being on and someone took it for a spin before he noticed. Ended up putting another half litre of fresh oil in at that time. I didn't expect it to look that runny.

[mizke]

thats odd, every time ive changed mine it comes out like used oil out of a car.. maybe a little more runnier then when it was fresh, but clearly you guys ride more then i do and i have yet to put my quad through a whole weekend of abuse. so im going to head your advice and look into switching to a different oil..

[Weldangrind]

It sure looked like T was having a good time. I watched from the safety of the deck while I nursed my neck injury. :(

His quad is really impressive. I can't wait to perform the same mods to mine. :D

[mizke]

you guys should pick up a pair of those ignition coils i have posted in the general section found a super duper deal on them on ebay from a seller i trust.. 50% - 60% off anywhere else you would find them at

[TurboT]

It sure looked like T was having a good time. I watched from the safety of the deck while I nursed my neck injury. :(

His quad is really impressive. I can't wait to perform the same mods to mine. :D

When we tearing it down?

[mizke]

before you do those mods weld, you 2 should do a few drag races. doing a true comparison between a stock beast and a modded beast.. just have some one else film it while you 2 race

[Weldangrind]

Soon. I'll pick up the bearings, seals and bolts, and we'll fix both machines. When my neck heals, I want to go punish my quad.

[mizke]

part numbers man, dont forget to either post or pm me them numbers either way they will get added to the honda/yamaha part numbers thread i started