Arc Welder Suggestions

[yozalo]

I am planning to buy a arc welder, I am planning to buy a welder at harbor freight which is in the USA since it is cheaper there. The arc welder which I am leaning towards is the: 120 Amp Arc Welder made by Chicago Electric Welding Systems.

Here is the link: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=98870

What do you think of it? Is it powerful enough to work on my atv exhaust and my bro's car exhaust? Also, the another problem is that the voltage of the welder, since it is 230 volts. In my house all my outputs are 110v.

[Reveeen]

since it is cheaper there

You are mistaken. Price is never a consideration when buying a welding machine. Typically welding machines (welders) will last you a lifetime, and will continue to work long after you are not, working, that is. I still have (own) my first welder (Idealarc 250), and it still works as good as the day it was born, 35+ years on.

What you are looking at is not suitable for what you wish to weld (atv exhaust and my bro's car exhaust), you wish to buy what is called a "Mig welder". A mig welder feeds wire (at a controlled speed) within a cloud of oxygen excluded gas to join metal. A mig welder likes to "live" in a clean, dry, environment, otherwise you will have trouble with it. The welder itself contains "consumables", tips, liners, and the like, that need replacing at regular intervals (the stuff wears as you use the welder). To assure a reliable source (or even the availability) of these "consumables" it is important to buy a machine from a "known" manufacturer (Miller, Hobart, Lincoln). You will get your "nicest" welds with an external gas source, this means tank rental, and refilling. Sometimes the amount of welding you want to do, or expect to do, does not merit the cost of a welder, and all the associated stuff, in this case it is far, far, cheaper to simply pay someone to do it.
I have a mig welder here, a thing called a Hobart 120, it's 20 years old, and works as good as the day I bought it.

If you do not wish to spend a lot, maybe Oxy-Acetylene welding would be more suitable for you.

[Cal25]

I just read the data on the link you provided. It appears to me that it is dual voltage and can run at 115V. The amp rating at 115v is only 65 w a duty cycle of 15%. You would have to use the skinny rods.

I think it might work for what you want to do and would be something to learn with before spending bigger bucks on a more capable machine. I would practice a bit before doing the exhaust work. It can be tough welding thin metal with an ark welder but it can be done. I cut out the guts of my exhaust and welded back up with my arc welder. The weld still looks like slobber but has been fine for over a year.

Remember you are going to need a hood and some gloves. I would suggest an aoutomatic darkening hood if you can swing it. An angle grinder and chipping hammer are a must also.

Perhaps you could find a similar unit used on Craigslist for about half?
All in all I would be more inclined to encourage you than to discourage you.

[suprf1y]

Buy a good used single phase 220V arc welder. For what you're doing, a mig machine is the last thing you want. Too expensive, with high maintenance costs (wire/gas/tips, etc.) I have done lots of exhaust work with my arc welder. It was cheap new, has lasted me 25 yrs, and a box of rods is $20, and last forever. For an inexperienced welder, structural work with a mig machine is an accident waiting to happen. Stick to an arc welder.

[yozalo]

Yes, I want an arc welder since I do not want to buy tanks. The only reason I am getting an arc welder is because it does not use gas. It runs purely on electric.

The only problem with this arc welder is that the output is 240v. But, all the plugs in my house are 110v.

[phil]

i hope my advise doesnt start a big uproar but here it is i have more than a few welders. i make my living in the auto repair business. i have mig, tig arc, plasma cutters, for what you are asking heres my advice clarke makes a cheap spool gun type mig that works fair, yes price makes a diffrence, it runs flux core (no gas) tips are cheap, the wire is a little pricey but it will work and i assume your not going to use it that much. and i also guess you will only be using it on thin low stress stuff. on the other hand if you want to do 1st class work on thin stuff,or building up material to machine. (and i have done that its tuff, no pitts or imperfections) lincoln makes a the sp series, not to be confused with the superstores weld pac but thats another story.
the arc welders if you go that route unless your a welder you want a DC machine the AC are harder to keep from sticking and starting is harder but then i say mig with a flux core which is really a wire welder but thats another boring debate :lol:

[yozalo]

I was looking at the clarke and they seem to be going for $250. I'm looking for a welder under $150.

[Weldangrind]

Yozalo, as phil said, you can use a wire feed welder with what is called flux core wire. More on that in a moment.

With whatever electric welding method you choose, a gas shield is necessary to protect the molten puddle from contamination (mostly oxygen). With an arc welder, shielding gas is released from the rod as you weld, and a hard coating will be left on the bead that requires chipping with a special (but cheap) hammer.

What people refer to as MIG welding should be called wire feed welding in this discussion. A spool of wire inside the machine is turned by an electric motor as you squeeze the trigger. This wire is fed through a long hose and out of the tip of the gun in your hand. You can use a flux core wire that releases shielding gas as you weld, or you can use solid wire with a bottle of shielding gas (usually 75% Argon and 25% CO2). With a bottle of gas, it is released down the hose along with the wire that is fed from the spool.

The benefit to a bottle of gas is easy, clean welds with little smoke. If you use an arc welder or a wire feed welder with flux core wire, it will be very smoky. The benefit to flux core or arc welding is that it's easier to use outdoors in windy conditions. Bottled shielding gas tends to blow away in the wind, resulting in poor welds.

Arc welding is on the difficult end for a beginner. A flux core wire feed welder is much easier to operate, and you'll likely be happier with the results. If you're going to be welding outdoors, a flux core welder is a good choice.

As a bonus, you can buy a wire feed welder that can be set up for flux core or bottled gas. I recommend that you go to a neighbourhood welding shop and start asking questions. If they're well set up, you'll be able to try your hand at welding with their machines before buying anything. Even some Princess Auto locations have welding rooms for customers to try. In addition to Chinese machines, Princess also carries Lincoln.

[yozalo]

Yozalo, as phil said, you can use a wire feed welder with what is called flux core wire. More on that in a moment.

With whatever electric welding method you choose, a gas shield is necessary to protect the molten puddle from contamination (mostly oxygen). With an arc welder, shielding gas is released from the rod as you weld, and a hard coating will be left on the bead that requires chipping with a special (but cheap) hammer.

What people refer to as MIG welding should be called wire feed welding in this discussion. A spool of wire inside the machine is turned by an electric motor as you squeeze the trigger. This wire is fed through a long hose and out of the tip of the gun in your hand. You can use a flux core wire that releases shielding gas as you weld, or you can use solid wire with a bottle of shielding gas (usually 75% Argon and 25% CO2). With a bottle of gas, it is released down the hose along with the wire that is fed from the spool.

The benefit to a bottle of gas is easy, clean welds with little smoke. If you use an arc welder or a wire feed welder with flux core wire, it will be very smoky. The benefit to flux core or arc welding is that it's easier to use outdoors in windy conditions. Bottled shielding gas tends to blow away in the wind, resulting in poor welds.

Arc welding is on the difficult end for a beginner. A flux core wire feed welder is much easier to operate, and you'll likely be happier with the results. If you're going to be welding outdoors, a flux core welder is a good choice.

As a bonus, you can buy a wire feed welder that can be set up for flux core or bottled gas. I recommend that you go to a neighbourhood welding shop and start asking questions. If they're well set up, you'll be able to try your hand at welding with their machines before buying anything. Even some Princess Auto locations have welding rooms for customers to try. In addition to Chinese machines, Princess also carries Lincoln.

Thanks weldangrind. I am going to go to princess auto!

[katoranger]

I have a Hobart 140 that can be setup either way. Flux core or sheilding gas. All of my welding is outside. I use flux core. The hobart 140 is one the largest you can find to run on a 115v circuit. They are not cheap though. Benefit is that all the consumables are easily found at local stores.

I recommend not going with a harbor freight unit. It will work well until you need parts. Reveen is right in that it will be a one time purchase if you get a good one.

Arc welding is great for structural stuff. Mig/wire feed for lighter stuff. Of course you have tig, but that normally is out of the price range of a home user.

Hobart has smaller models that may be more what you need also.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/

I would recommend a hobart, lincoln, miller, century. Find out what store near you sells the consumables and get a brand they support. You don't want to have to wait on parts for the welder in the middle of a project.

Allen

[suprf1y]

I would recommend a hobart, lincoln, miller, century. Find out what store near you sells the consumables and get a brand they support.

That would be my advice.
My Miller was used when I bought it 25 years ago, I've never had a problem with it, and I've built a lot of stuff.
The flux core welders are better for a rookie over the mig machines, IMO, but I still prefer an arc welder for simplicity, safety, and economy.
I learned something important long ago.
Welding is welding. One type is not better than the other.
In the end, it comes down to technique, and application.

Yozalo, if you have a stove, or dryer in your place, you have a 220 oulet. I tapped off the stove plug for mine, in my first house. How often are you cooking, and welding at the same time? :P

[yozalo]

Lol. The dryer is gas, and the stove is gas. 8O

[suprf1y]

Maybe you should buy some torches then :lol:

[Weldangrind]

I would agree with superf1y on one welder not being better than the other with one exception. Miller's 140 and 180 have infinite voltage control, whereas most of the others give you four, five or six voltages to choose from. When you have six voltage selections, you'll probably find the voltage you need (voltage and wire speed are sort of married to each other). The Miller 140 (120 volt) and 180 (240 volt) have a voltage control that goes from 0-10, and it adjusts more like a volume control. I spend more time between 3 and 4 or between 4 and 5 than anywhere else. I really appreciate the fine control.

That said, I believe that there is a Lincoln that offers the same system. Hobart does not (that I'm aware of), despite being Miller's sister company. Also, even though the Hobart wire tensioner looks the same as the Miller, it's plastic on the Hobart and metal on the Miller. Things like that (and the voltage control) make the Miller about $100 more than the Hobart.

The new Miller 140 Auto-set is probably the easiest welder there is. If you choose the auto-set feature, you simply adjust the voltage according to the wire thickness you want, and it will automatically adjust the wire speed. Perfect for beginners. It's not cheap though. :(

The Miller 140 will handle everything from 24 guage (thin sheet metal) to 3/16" steel in one pass, plugged into a standard household outlet. KMS tools (a BC tool chain) has them on sale right now for $779.95 (regular price is $849.95). Check out http://www.kmstools.com/miller-millermatic-140-auto-set-mig-welder-3444

I also completely agree with the other guys here who say to buy a quality machine. It took me quite awhile to save up enough to buy my Miller, but I'm very pleased with it.

[yozalo]

Yes, you are right that I should buy a quality machine. But, what is the point of me buying such an expensive machine if I am only going to use it 3-4 times. :wink:

I went to princess auto and the staff barely knew about welding. They were really busy today, they only had 2-3 staff. :cry:

I asked the 70amp welder, but he said that it was very week and the maximum metal width should be 4mm. 8O

I am think of getting an oxy acetylene, but the problem is where do you get the tanks? I do not want the gigantic tanks, I want the mini ones. I am kind of confused. I know how to use oxy acetylene since our school has them. I'd prefer to oxy acetylene since I can do multiple tasking including heating stubborn bolts. :o

Also, thanks for everyone's help!

[Reveeen]

Sometimes, within an industry, things change, and so does the equipment. The obsolete equipment goes for peanuts, or for just carting away, I got a "Porta-Spot" and a "Ultra-Mig" that way. (The porta-spot being old technology and the ultra-mig was broken)

http://www.amh.ca/anglais/accueil.html

[yozalo]

Looks like bulky and heavy technology. 8O

[yozalo]

Does anyone know where to get oxy acetylene tanks? I've been looking and I can't seem to find anywhere that sells them!

[Reveeen]

You got "easy", "expensive", and "cheap", it also depends where you live.

Usually only the small tanks are for sale, the large ones are rental only. The filling charge is usually the same, large, or small. Purchasing a pair of small tanks (that have to be re-inspected periodically) will run you around $250.

I needed a small set cheap.......this is what I did (providing you have an oxygen filling station locally):

I went with propane (a 20lb BBQ tank) and I recycled a scuba tank. Scuba tanks have to be inspected yearly, ANY sign of rust on the inside and the tank is junk, I took a junk (free) scuba tank, got it inspected ($20) and re-valved (another $20), and now it is a small oxygen tank. Scuba tanks do not have a flat bottom, so I smashed the bottom off of a Coke canister and glued it to the scuba tank. No scuba tanks locally, don't kid yourself, fire departments have breathing packs that use the same kind of tank.

[yozalo]

8O, I've been thinking. I t don't think it's ideal for me to have a oxy acetylene tank. I am going to stick with the arc welder. Here are my 2 choices:

70 amp unbranded, sold at princess auto

or

90 amp Clarke sold on ebay

[Alaskan-Dad]

These sets are great for quick easy small welding jobs!
http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/164477_lg.gif
LINK Details & Price (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200342921_200342921)

Hope that helped ;)

[yozalo]

These sets are great for quick easy small welding jobs!
http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/164477_lg.gif
LINK Details & Price (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200342921_200342921)

Hope that helped ;)

I saw those and they are over $300. :cry:

[Weldangrind]

Beware of acetylene affecting your house insurance. My insurance carrier is ok with my MIG, but not with acetylene. Interestingly, it's ok to have oxygen and MAP gas at home (because MAP can be used for home plumbing repair). You can buy a small disposable oxy / MAP setup for less than $100 from Canadian Tire (product #58-7579-6). Once the MAP and oxygen bottles are empty, you recycle them and buy replacement bottles. Buy a fire extinguisher while you're at it. :D

KMS Tools has the same setup on sale for around $59.00 this weekend. Check out http://www.kmstools.com/bernzomatic-portable-cutting-and-welding-kit-102

Since you have oxy / acetylene experience, you'll quickly adapt to oxy / map. It's not quite as hot, but it's close. Check with your insurance provider to be sure that your house coverage won't be compromised.

[yozalo]

I checked reviews online at canadian tire but it seems people do not recommended it:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/WeldingSoldering/Torches/PRD~0587557P/BernzOmatic%25AE%2BPropane%252BOxygen%2BCutting%2B Torch%2BKit.jsp

[TurboT]

Find a buddy who's a good welder and has the setup,(or even a bad welder but with the gear) and buy him beer to have him do it or borrow his gear. :) Might be a cheaper and less stressful decision. 8O

..but see I'm weird, I hate welding. Been sparked, burnt and flashed by the old submerged arc crank welder one too many times, and I'm just not interested anymore...

[yozalo]

Turbo t, it's called welding gloves and welding goggles. :lol:

[TurboT]

Turbo t, it's called welding gloves and welding goggles. :lol:

Ahh, well, you'll learn grasshopper. :)

Shit flies around, and you're concentrating on not blowing a new oil hole in the crankshaft when a piece of flux flies off and lands on your lap... it's a bit of a surprise, not sure if you smell or feel your nuts burning first. :) ..but don't let me scare you. What I was doing was a different process that not many people do anyhow..

[Reveeen]

The bottom line here is:

If you want to play it is going to cost you money.

You can go out and buy all the "home", or "hobbyist", tools that you like, but you are going to find that they aren't worth a s**t.

Sorry.

[katoranger]

Have you check you local craigslist for welders? You could probably find someone needing cash and get a good deal on one. I got mine used on ebay. It looked to have been used once.

Weldandgrind is right in that the hobart is the cheaper end of miller.

Allen

[yozalo]

I looked on kijiji and craigslist and most people were selling the 220v. The problem is that I do not have any 220v outlets in my garage or basement.

[Reveeen]

I do not have any 220v outlets in my garage or basement.

Very likely none of us did either. I'm not quite sure what you want someone to say? You either buy the stuff, and install your own, or you call an electrician, and get what you want installed. With some luck the wire run will not be too long from your fuse panel (you pay by the foot). I'm fairly sure it isn't a "real good" idea to run a welder in the basement (fumes). Quite realistically, the wiring will cost at least as much as the welder (if not more).

[Alaskan-Dad]

Well we are all steering you to more expensive tools than you can justify buying. That could be because most of us that weld work with thicker metal and know the importance of a stable arc. But really a small 110 v machine might do what you want.
It will be tricky to weld thin metal with a 110v buzz box, when a small (thin) rod sticks instead of breaking off it bends then it will glow and become even more flexible, but you will learn to pull it out of the stinger before it glows and use tools to break the rod off the weld. A hammer and chisel or even your slag hammer will do this quick and easy. Another trick you'll need to learn is using a filler rod (a rod with the flux broke off it) besides the hot rod in your stinger (using your arc like you its a torch and feeding the filler rod with your other hand), the reason to use of a filler rod is it allows you to put more metal into the arc, more metal cools your puddle which can help stop holes from blowing out and becoming larger. The filler rod is also handy for filling wide gaps. Use 6011 rod, 6013 Beauty rod leaves a weak weld, but you can make a good cover pass with it.
And always run a practice bead or two on metal similar to what your going to weld!

Good luck I'm sure you'll get some good welds with practice.

One last note: buy your welder local and make sure the store you purchase it at will honor the warranty, you don't want to send it to China for warranty repairs.
I am a journeyman welder ftter in the shipyards and pipe welder master craft in the refineries, so I do know a little something about welding ;)