Whats left ???

[TeamCheap]

I dont see much activity on the chinese power sport front.

I know there are a lot of factors in why the import of chinese powersport toys has fallen off but it is almost nonexistent around here.
It seems the earthquakes, olympics and lousy world economy has really taken its toll on it.

I used to be able to find them all over but now they are very hard too find oh sure TSC still has their stuff and pep boys I think but even on the net there are far less dealers than before.

Has the 400cc dualsport bike ever made it here for real ?

I guess it doesnt really matter to me right now but in a short while I will want to purchase a new ride.

[Q]

People will start buying scooters and small motorcycles when the recession ends next summer and gas prices rise above $3.00. That's when the larger Chinese manufacturers will introduce new models. I hope to see some standard models rather than just cruisers, dual sports, and sport bikes.

Q

[TeamCheap]

The recession wont end next year atleast not here where it started and has lasted the longest but I know it will end one day.

I'd like to see a real 400cc dualsport but even so I have until 2011 before I can buy it since we are strapped for cash big time right now.

Well we all knew that there would be a shake out of the weaker dealer/manufacturers out there.

I may try to buy one of those three wheeled trucks that are at a dealership since he has slashed the price from $9995 to $5950 but I need him to go lower than that since I doubt he will be supporting them once they are sold.

I'd drive that year round except the really nasty winter days.

[SpudRider]

...Has the 400cc dualsport bike ever made it here for real ?...
Pitster Pro has been silent for some time regarding their LXT 400 dual sport bike; they must have encountered some problems. :( They were going to report about the bike's participation in the LA Barstow to Vegas Dual Sport Tour, but I haven't heard a word from them in weeks. :(

http://www.labarstowvegas.com/

Spud :)

[Q]

That doesn't seem like a very practical vehicle compared to something like a used Geo Metro.

As a kid we always had at least one Piaggio Ape around. I remember a pickup, flat bed semi truck, van, and rickshaw. All 220cc two stroke, 4 speed forward and 4 speed reverse. Top speed was about 45 mph.

Q



I may try to buy one of those three wheeled trucks that are at a dealership since he has slashed the price from $9995 to $5950 but I need him to go lower than that since I doubt he will be supporting them once they are sold.

I'd drive that year round except the really nasty winter days.

[phil]

i think all this may be a good thing, to weed out the flea market seller, and the lesser quality machines. this seems to be hastening the separation of the wheat from the chaff. there is a forum for dealers that has a discussion called r.i.p. another one bites the dust involving the companies that have went out. i have seen a lot of dealers go as well, many who just sell and offered no service or parts.

[TeamCheap]

I have to agree phil that it is a weeding out a lot of the wannabee's, the ones left will be the most committed ones and deserving of the business.

Even so the chinese quality is still behind and that is whats hurting them the most in my opinion then compounded by the lack of parts and poor warranty service.
It still comes down to they only have the lowest price going for them and until that changes nothing much else will.

Q I'm not as concerned with top speed on them as much as how stable they are and that would be the biggest factor for me.

I have thought about a little throw away car and I still may but I'd go with a VW since they are fairly reliable and good on fuel.If I could just find a decent VW rabbit truck.
No the VW rabbit truck is not the cheapest thing out there but I like them.

If the trike was cheap enough I might jump at it but not if I can get a real vehicle for about the same price that will still have resale value later.

[Q]

A delta trike layout (one wheel in front) is the least stable but most maneuverable in tight spaces. They're great for the narrow and slow inner city "streets" of Europe, Japan, China. They're also cheapest to build.

The tadpole layout (one wheel in the back) is the most stable but least maneuverable. The old Morgan 3 wheeler is an example.

Say you're driving along on your delta trike and a dog runs out in front of you. The natural inclination is to brake and swerve. When you do that the weight moves forward and to one side, and there is no wheel there to stop you from tipping. They're very easy to roll.

Q

[Reveeen]

+ 10 for old Morgans! (especially with Peter Sellers at the wheel)

A used Reliant Robin can probably be imported from England (though one questions why).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin

[suprf1y]

I have thought about a little throw away car and I still may but I'd go with a VW since they are fairly reliable and good on fuel.

Buy a Metro, then give me a call :lol:

http://geometroforum.com/pages/3tech

It'll be more reliable than a VW, and even better on fuel.

[Q]

A Metro is the 90s VW. Aside from the rust problem they have when they live in areas where road salt is used, they are great little cars. Way better gas mileage than a VW, more reliable, and a better heater. Metros are actually Suzukis.

I have a 93 Suzuki Swift which is basically a Metro with a larger engine. Fun to drive, cheap to fix, very reliable, amazing gas mileage. Paid $800 for it.

Q


I have thought about a little throw away car and I still may but I'd go with a VW since they are fairly reliable and good on fuel.

Buy a Metro, then give me a call :lol:

http://geometroforum.com/pages/3tech

It'll be more reliable than a VW, and even better on fuel.

[TurboT]

Rebuilt tons of Metro/Swift/Firefly/Sprint motors in my life. Surprisingly well made little motors. There were tons of those little gaspots around these parts for a time. Don't see them much anymore.. as mentioned, they probably all rusted away due to our wet environment on the West Coast of Canada.

I think the biggest problem with Chinese motorsports in general is the ease of buying. Most of these companies will advertise themselves on all the chinese exporter websties (Alibaba, Tradekey etc) and someone can order 10 of them and sell them on ebay, or stick up a hasty website and just blow out boxes with no overhead. The factories don't care who's buying the units, they just want an approved L/C in their hands and away they ship. Online sellers can be anyone, an actual dealer or some 16 year old kid in the garage of his parents house, trying to make a buck in the Wal-Mart/eBay world. You get no support because he just wants to sell boxes of things and move on, which doesn't work well for this type of product.

I don't see this changing anytime soon. There will be a new batch of brands and sellers out there soon, unless it's too hard for them to get the items into the country.

[BDIAgencies]

I think the biggest problem with Chinese motorsports in general is the ease of buying. Most of these companies will advertise themselves on all the chinese exporter websties (Alibaba, Tradekey etc) and someone can order 10 of them and sell them on ebay, or stick up a hasty website and just blow out boxes with no overhead. The factories don't care who's buying the units, they just want an approved L/C in their hands and away they ship. Online sellers can be anyone, an actual dealer or some 16 year old kid in the garage of his parents house, trying to make a buck in the Wal-Mart/eBay world. You get no support because he just wants to sell boxes of things and move on, which doesn't work well for this type of product.

I don't see this changing anytime soon. There will be a new batch of brands and sellers out there soon, unless it's too hard for them to get the items into the country.

Well, from the info session I went to in Toronto that is all about to change...well in Canada anyway. New EPA requirements,importing laws ect. It will streamline and put the person selling the bike out of his garage out of business. If you noticed on GIO's website, they teamed up with X-Moto's and I can only assume its for the new EPA and importing regulations.

I feel bad for alot of US dealers who bought product so they can only make up to $200 per unit because they need to compete with people who borrow from dad/grampa and bring in containers of Shit product,sell it online direct to the customer and say "Thanks alot and see ya later". IMO the US government needs to have better control of who can sell on/off road products. This online buying and shipping the crated product to your door has ruined the market in the US. It may be great for the consumer at the beginning because he is getting a "Great" deal but then when it needs parts or service and parts are nowhere to be found then the "Chinese imported" products gets a bad name when in fact if it was done properly in the first place it wouldn't happen.

Now I know that we in Canada have GIO who sells online BUT he also has parts and now with the new regulations the online selling "MAY" change or it may be back to business as usual we will have to wait and see. I know we will see fewer importers here in Canada when the new regulations kick in for 2010.

Only time will tell!!!

This is only my opinion and it was not aimed to offend anyone...I just need to end the year off with a good rant!! :lol:

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!

[suprf1y]

I feel bad for alot of US dealers who bought product so they can only make up to $200 per unit because they need to compete with people who borrow from dad/grampa and bring in containers of sh-- product,sell it online direct to the customer and say "Thanks alot and see ya later". IMO the US government needs to have better control of who can sell on/off road products.

It's business. The guy with the better deal/cheaper price sells more units. It's called capitalism. If people go into business with their eyes half closed, I'm not sure how you can feel sorry for them. Nobody owes them a living.
Is it a free market, or isn't it?

[Cal25]

How does the banning of motorcycles in many cities in China wiegh into this. I am thinking that the majority of the the market was/is still in China.

Personally, I chose the internet purchace over the full service dealer for one major reason, cost. when I was shopping a couple of years ago, the Lifan GY5 200 was 1799 at a "Genuine" dealer. I paid 950 in the crate for a 250 "clone". For another 100 bucks I could have bought a second bike and thrown away the first bike when it broke. The clone dealer is still selling bikes and ATV's. The Genuine dealer is out of buisness.
I am willing to take responsibility for doing simple repairs myself and have had no problem finding parts as needed.

[BDIAgencies]

It's business. The guy with the better deal/cheaper price sells more units. It's called capitalism. If people go into business with their eyes half closed, I'm not sure how you can feel sorry for them. Nobody owes them a living.
Is it a free market, or isn't it?[/quote]

Maybe you have something there....we are an online society. There is no reason to have customer service or to see the fit and finish for quality. I guess being in a disposible society has its advantages.... :roll:

[Reveeen]

People will start buying scooters and small motorcycles when the recession ends next summer and gas prices rise above $3.00. That's when the larger Chinese manufacturers will introduce new models. I hope to see some standard models rather than just cruisers, dual sports, and sport bikes. Q

I *think* you will see another "jobless recovery". The recession before this was a jobless recovery, where the strong players moved their manufacturing off shore, and only the stubborn/weak remained. This time the stubborn will be manufacturing off shore and the weak will be gone.
This "recession" is like none other I have seen. Prices are not falling. Mainly, I figure, because only the strong remain. Where you do see prices falling (the auto sector) it is out of desperation, because they have not completed their adjustments yet to manufacture off shore, and need the excuse to ditch their "legacy commitments" (employee pensions and health care).
At the end of this recession I expect high unemployment rates and what jobs remain will be underpaid.

[Jim]

I thought the last time I listened to the news, that Canada was out of the recession?

[suprf1y]

I *think* you will see another "jobless recovery". The recession before this was a jobless recovery, where the strong players moved their manufacturing off shore, and only the stubborn/weak remained. This time the stubborn will be manufacturing off shore and the weak will be gone.
This "recession" is like none other I have seen. Prices are not falling. Mainly, I figure, because only the strong remain. Where you do see prices falling (the auto sector) it is out of desperation, because they have not completed their adjustments yet to manufacture off shore, and need the excuse to ditch their "legacy commitments" (employee pensions and health care).
At the end of this recession I expect high unemployment rates and what jobs remain will be underpaid.

So are prices falling, or prices not falling?
I'm confused by your post.
At the same time, please explain why the manufacturers need the excuse of lower prices, in desperation in order to ditch their legacy costs.

Prices on almost everything are down. The only exceptions I see is higher end real estate in select few cities (just wait until interest rates go up). Real estate everywhere else is down.
Now is the best time I've ever seen to buy almost anything.

[Reveeen]

Canada was out of the recession?

Not that I see. I see small businesses folding almost every day. Out on the street I see lots of folks just driving around (folks with jobs are at jobs), demands on food banks are increasing, not decreasing.

So are prices falling, or prices not falling?

Prices are falling only in sectors that have not made the transition to off shore manufacturing. The guys still trying to manufacture here are slashing prices.

to ditch their legacy costs.

The old large domestic manufacturing is burdened by high legacy costs (health care and pension). To become competitive they have to ditch these costs. The only way to do that is bankruptcy. Do not think for a moment if, say GM North America goes bust, that the dealers will not have product to sell, they will simply import product from GM Mexico, or GM Korea, you get the idea. By reducing prices it diminishes profit, with little, or no profit, they can either bargain reduction of legacy cost, or go bust, it matters not to them.

I am seeing only reduced prices on luxury goods. The everyday stuff is holding firm. Look at the stuff you buy every week, are you seeing a price reduction of any kind? (I'm not)

[Jim]

Canada was out of the recession?

Not that I see.

Fair enough, but mathematically speaking. According to the news / bank of Canada.

[frostbite]

Canada was out of the recession?

I am seeing only reduced prices on luxury goods. The everyday stuff is holding firm. Look at the stuff you buy every week, are you seeing a price reduction of any kind? (I'm not)

Food certainly isn't getting any cheaper. We've started buying baked goods, meat, etc.. from local vendors. The big retail outlets (Loblaw's/Superstore, IGA/Sobey's, etc...) are still charging an arm and a leg for meat/chicken/fish. We pay (~$6 CAD per gallon) at least 2x more for milk than they do in Maine. They've even tried stealth increases on grocery products (e.g. canned Apple Juice) by reducing portions and leaving per unit prices the same. Grrrrr

Sure, electronics and new cars are cheaper but for the most part they're optional.

[Reveeen]

Food certainly isn't getting any cheaper.


If you care to notice we are approaching a monopoly situation in the food industry in this country. The monopoly's name is Maple Leaf foods. Maple Leaf foods has been quietly buying up everything they can get their hands on.

http://www.mapleleaf.com/en/corporate/company-info/business-operations/

It is so bad in certain portions of this country, the concept of a farmer taking his animals to the auction is a thing of the past, there being only one buyer.
The information on their website is out of date by about 5 years, they own/control more than they are admitting to.

Remember listeriosis? If you, or I, had poisoned as many folks as Maple Leaf we would have been closed, never to re-open. If the Canadian government closed Maple Leaf Canadians would have starved.

[Reveeen]

Fair enough, but mathematically speaking. According to the news / bank of Canada.

Mathematically speaking=jobless recovery

Or in layman's terms: the guys moving a piece of paper from one side of their desk to the other side of their desk, and upcharging 50% on the transaction, are still at that work (though it might be 70% now), and the working man is at home planning on going to the Food Bank on Friday.

[Weldangrind]

8O

I'm quietly retreating to the ATV section now...

[waynev]

8O

I'm quietly retreating to the ATV section now...

LOL.....

[SpudRider]

8O

I'm quietly retreating to the ATV section now...
I have already retreated to the Dual Sport forum. :)

Spud :)

[suprf1y]

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/elections/14922d1203442021-obama-illegals-share-same-message-n522306244_197290_3718.jpg

[PoManzATV]

Maybe you have something there....we are an online society. There is no reason to have customer service or to see the fit and finish for quality. I guess being in a disposible society has its advantages.... :roll:

That's just it IMO. I've been out of the power sport scene for years, but when I was recently looking for an inexpensive kids machine, the first place I looked was online. I knew PepBoys, Harbor Freight and eBay had Chinese import stuff, but within a cpl of clicks I found (what appeared to be) reputable mail-order sources for ATVs. For a more basic machine like this, I don't care about Cust. Service. As long as I can order parts, I'll do everything myself.

Joel