I bought the 1977 KZ-400

[FastDoc]

What a deal, I think. :D $400 8)

A minty antique KZ, all original except for new tires. 5,000 miles. All it needs are carb boots and fork seals, all of which are included in the sale. It runs well enough as it is, but it does need those items replaced. It needs a bath and the chrome polished, but other than that it will be a near mint looking machine. No tears in the seat, no dents or scratches, and all the chrome is there, even the stock exhaust.

The first bike I ever rode was a 1977 KZ-400, same color. So, this machine really tickles my fancy!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/maule/KZ40020D201975.jpg

[FastDoc]

The bike is at my friend's motorcycle shop. The prior owner brought it in for the seals and boots, and then he bought a Sportster and never picked up the bike or had Andy do the repairs. It's been in the shop since last summer. I got it for what he needed to pay Andy, which worked out to a dollar a cc.

[Jim]

Looks great, I like the color.

[FastDoc]

Very nostalgic!

I just had to save the poor old bike. It looked like an abandoned puppy in the back of the shop.

There's also an antique Moto Guzzi there too.... :P

[TurboT]

Doc,

Good for you! A nice looking bike. I can't find anything in these parts which would be road worthy, in that kind of shape, for that kind of money. Good buy!

I'm just a 'smidge' jealous. :)

[FastDoc]

I was in the right spot at the right time, and knew the right guy. That said, I might find something else wrong that will make the bike unrepairable, so I'm still holding my breath. I might get it Saturday or next week, and it would be my pleasure to photograph the repairs as I go along.

[JimW]

Great buy, doc. I bet it'll make you a fine bike.

[katoranger]

That bike is worth every penny. Not many in that condition.

I just need to sell all my projects and buy one good bike. Actually hauled some in for scrap today.

[MICRider]

Wow! That KZ looks like new! Wicked deal, well done :).

[FastDoc]

Wow! That KZ looks like new! Wicked deal, well done :).

It's gonna look worse before it gets better.

I should post some pics of my other classic, a 1978 GS750. :D

[Weldangrind]

I always liked the Harley-style rear fender on those old KZ bikes. Good score Doc!

[frostbite]

Even if you do find something wrong it's still a steal at $400. Nice find.

[SpudRider]

That's a beautiful bike, Doc. :) You certainly know how to find the good deals! When you have time, please post more photographs. :D

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

I'll pick it up tomorrow :D . It's gonna look worse before it looks better. It needs a tune up, fork seals, brake bleeding, chain cleaning and oiling, carb boots, air filter, and a good wash polish and wax.

Hopefully there won't be any significant snags, and I doubt there will be. Like I say it runs OK now, and the carbs have already been rebuilt. It just needs some TLC, and I'm the man to do it. It only has 5,000 miles and it's on brand new tires.

I think I'll have it roadworthy and 'restored' for less than $500, all together including the bike, plus license. BUT I'll register it as an antique, so the tabs will be permenant. :D

[FastDoc]

I brought it home and got it running OK :D . It has some minor carb issue, I think either a leaky vacuum diaphram and/or leaky needle valve/seat. No biggie. I have to replace the carb boots anyway so I'll fix it up when I have the carbs off. It rides fine now, just not as perfect as I'd like.

I changed the oil (yuck) and brake fluid, points, plugs (looked a little rich), and adjusted the chain. Then a good soak with degreaser and a good hit with the Honda Powerwasher! She looks good! 8)

Tomorrow I'll tackle the fork seals if I have time after a meeting I have to go to after work.

I rode it about 30 miles and it's a lot of fun. Bikes have come a long way in the past 33 years, let me tell you! 8O

It's light, has a solid frame with no flex, good brakes, good ground clearance, acceptable suspension (after I fix the fork seals), and vibration is not bad at all (counterbalancer). It's supposed to have 36 HP, maybe that's not as much as it sounds.

It's still not an interstate bike. 80 is all it's good for unless I tuck. The old reports say 98 MPH top speed but I have no desire to find out. All I can say is if you're going 70 and hit a headwind or a hill, you're looking for 4th gear.

I'm a happy camper! :D

[MICRider]

Cool! Nothing beats a new bike! :) Off topic, but I saw the pic of your Gold Wing on that quad thread... Gorgeous bike!!! I am green with envy's :)

[SpudRider]

Photos, brother Bill, we need to see some photos! :D

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

Photos, brother Bill, we need to see some photos! :D

Spud :)

I'll snap some more tomorrow, I'm beat tonight.

MIC, nothing to be jealous. Just worthless earthly stuff. True treasures are stored in Heaven where there is no thief, worm, or rust.
:D
That said, thank you. I really enjoy my 'stuff' for as long as I have it. The Wing is a magnificent piece of engineering and a real spaceship to ride. :D

[FastDoc]

Last night after work I replaced the fork seals. There were some chips in the chrome of the sliders so I polished them smooth with 600 grit and oil. Hopefully I won't be doing the seals again anytime soon.

This morning I adjusted the valves and replaced the pionts (remember those) and condenser. The plugss were carbon fouled and I cleaned them. I think the bike is rich at idle because of worn float needle valves, new ones are on order and should be here soon. I also have to repalce the carb boots so I'll do that at the same time.

I'll transfer the title/register it today. I think that this should do it.

I debated polishing up the oxidized aluminum but decided against it. I'll leave it in original condition, which is plenty good enough, and make it mechanically excellent.

[SpudRider]

Last night after work I replaced the fork seals. There were some chips in the chrome of the sliders so I polished them smooth with 600 grit and oil. Hopefully I won't be doing the seals again anytime soon.

This morning I adjusted the valves and replaced the pionts (remember those) and condenser. The plugss were carbon fouled and I cleaned them. I think the bike is rich at idle because of worn float needle valves, new ones are on order and should be here soon. I also have to repalce the carb boots so I'll do that at the same time.

I'll transfer the title/register it today. I think that this should do it.

I debated polishing up the oxidized aluminum but decided against it. I'll leave it in original condition, which is plenty good enough, and make it mechanically excellent.
Wonderful! Photos, please, oh kind physician! :D

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

Soon, Oh patient Spud!

I get to working and I'm so OCD I don't ever stop to do anything else. I can work on a bike half a day and not feel hungry or thirsty or take a break. Weird personality quirk.

I just titled it and got my Washington Historic Vehicle plates, same as on my GS750 :D

It definitly is rich. I just rode it about 20 miles, and I'd say it burned about 1/2 gallon of gas. It sould get 50+ MPG. Also, if it idles a while, it seems to 'load up' until you blip the throttle. Also, it smells a little rich, and as I said, the plugs are carbon fouled.

It idles well, runs at 1/4 and larger throttle openings well, but it's a bit flat off idle.

My mechanic friend Andy thinks its faulty float valves, so that's my next, and maybe final, repair on this old gal. :D

[SpudRider]

I'm just pulling your leg a little, Doc. ;) :lol: As with me, I see you have a mechanic friend named Andy! :)

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

I filled it and rode it (kinda hard 8) ) another 50 miles and filled it again. 36 MPG. I'm sure that will get better, as well as the low RPM driveablility, when I get the carb kits in and installed.

Right now she'll top out about 80, and she should do the high 90's, further proof the carbs ain't all there... :x

That said, running around the local canyons at 55-65 is delightful. Very nostalgic. Makes me want to get an old Simpson helmet and Bates jacket off eBay. ANyone else old enough to remember those? :D

I had to trade the tank with another guy in town. There was rust in it, and I was worried about it clogging or getting past the fuel filter. The new tank is perfect (but old) and identical except for a different stripe. The new tank has a small amount of rust, but I think it will be inconsequential. At any rate, no charge to me. :D

[FastDoc]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/maule/kz1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/maule/kz2.jpg

What you can't see in the pics is the tune up, valve adjustment, fluid and filters change, fork seal replacement, lube job, serviced cables, new plugs and points, and all the important little stuff.

[SpudRider]

Thanks for the photos, Doc. :) I purchased my first motorcycle in 1979; looking at your Suzuki brings back fond memories. :)

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

That Suzuki is a fine girl. I mechanically rsstored her thoroughly and she's been 100% reliable, even with my large friend on her, for 4 trips and about 10,000 miles. Fine looking well engineered machines, those old UJM's.

Also the Vetter fairing and luggage is well made and well thought out, and still works great after 30 plus years.

[FastDoc]

Another thing. I was looking for some replacement part for the luggage, and Vetter still has a website. I emailed in a question and Craig himself answered me! I was pleased and impressed. Nice guy. He's done some cool things in motorcycling, although mostly dead ends. He invented the heavy tourer when he made the bags for the first Gold Wings, but Honda, and others did him in when they developed factory luggage.

[katoranger]

nostalgic. Makes me want to get an old Simpson helmet and Bates jacket off eBay. ANyone else old enough to remember those? :D



Not quite. :wink:

[FastDoc]

I just redid the carbs and intake boots. Thank God I seem to have done it right and she runs great. I think I might be done with the mechanicals!

[SpudRider]

I just redid the carbs and intake boots. Thank God I seem to have done it right and she runs great. I think I might be done with the mechanicals!
That is wonderful, Doc! Dare I ask for more photographs? ;)

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

I just redid the carbs and intake boots. Thank God I seem to have done it right and she runs great. I think I might be done with the mechanicals!
That is wonderful, Doc! Dare I ask for more photographs? ;)

Spud :)

My pleasure. The boots that were on it worked only because they were covered in RTV silicone and were ugly. The only internal carb parts i needed to replace were the float needle valves and the float bowl O rings and the fuel line. I got off easy I think. Tomorrow I'll get a new in line fuel filter. Seeing how TINY those internal passages are makes me paranoid of clogging something!

The main good stuff I can't photograph, like how nice it runs not and no longer acts and smells rich.

Top speed did not change, I guess it's an 85 MPH bike which is fine with me, and 15 MPH faster than I need to go on it. I just used top speed as a rough indicator of power output.

I think I'm still down some because when they were new the articles had them clocked at 98, no way mine would do that. But, 33 years ago was a long time!

[katoranger]

I had RTV sealed boots on my radian. Did the job.

Also you can make a video for us. :lol:

85 on a little bike like that is fast enough.

[Reveeen]

This may be of some help:

http://www.kz400.com/index.html

[FastDoc]

The KZ400 site was instrumental and helped me with my project very much. 85 is plenty fast, it was just a way to test power output. the bike felt very fine at that speed. I don't have it done. Oh the joys of antique bike repair. this AM there was puddle of gas under left carb drain, the needle valve must be defective, incorrectly installed or some dirt may be in there. Also the vacuum slide diaphrams, while intact, are old, swollen, and balky and will get replaced.

[Reveeen]

I have had, well, "reasonable luck" replacing the steel needle valves with viton rubber tip valves stolen out of automotive carb rebuild kits. (otherwise give the needle a rap, on the blunt end, with a gasket hammer)

[katoranger]

A friend is sponsored by this Canadian company. He races in the WERA series vintage bikes.

http://www.siriusconinc.com/search_result.php?make=KAWASAKI&model=kz400&part=Carburetor+Repair+Kits&partno=&search=search&x=0&y=0

[FastDoc]

That's the kit I bought. Might be a defective valve or some crud. I'll look at it when I get home. Might be able to get by without pulling the carbs.

[FastDoc]

I need some advise men.

The leak is fixed, but I have a 'hanging idle'. It's from a vacuum leak at the carb boots where they mate to the head. I ID'ed this by spraying carb cleaner at the area and the hanging high idle (4000 RPM) can right down until the cleaner evaporated.

New boots for this bike are not possible to find, and the replacement boots (used) are what's on there now.

Any type of a sealent I can use that will stand the heat AND the exposure to fuel?

This is my last issue that keeps this bike from being a daily driver!

A crazy(?) idea I've had is to spray the boots with bedliner (redneck but maybe a good idea) to seal them or dip them in that plastic coating used for coating tool handles, but I don't know if that stuff will take the heat. I don't know if bedliner will flex without cracking when I put the carb bodies back into the boots. Ruberized undercoating is yet another thought.

Someone help! :oops:

[katoranger]

Not sure if the RTV is available in black. It worked really well for me.

I think the tool dip and bedliner would be okay with the fuel, but I don't know about the heat.

Allen

[FastDoc]

Look at what I found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-KZ400-Carburetor-Boot-Gasket-Vintage-74-77_W0QQitemZ150397914157QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcy cles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item23046a0c2d

Maybe there was supposed to be a gasket there that was tossed by some prior owner?

[SpudRider]

Look at what I found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-KZ400-Carburetor-Boot-Gasket-Vintage-74-77_W0QQitemZ150397914157QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcy cles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item23046a0c2d

Maybe there was supposed to be a gasket there that was tossed by some prior owner?
It appears a missing carburetor boot gasket might be the problem, Doc. ;) If this is the case, you shouldn't have much difficulty making that gasket yourself. :)

Spud :)

[katoranger]

I think my yamaha had the gaskets and a suzuki gs used o-rings to make that seal.

The gasket should be easy to make.

Allen

[FastDoc]

Suggestions on what to make it from? Should I use a sealer on it? Its not a big job but enough of a PIA I'd rather just do it once more.

[Cal25]

You can get gasket material at an auto parts store. RTV sealant could also be used but I would prefer the gasket as clean up would be easier if the job had to be done again later.

[Reveeen]

Gasket material (auto parts store, though in a pinch cardboard would do (the non-corrugated kind). Lay the material over the surface on the head, and using a gasket hammer, make the gasket in about 20 seconds. High temp RTV would do it too, just allow a good dry time.

[Weldangrind]

In further reference to RTV, it is intended to be colour-coded for a specific application. Clear is for glass, blue is sensor-safe, black is oil and gas resistant and red is high heat. Black would certainly stand up to intake manifold temps.

In response to your question, I'd use bulk gasket material that is intended for heat (not cork), and no sealant. If it leaks, you could always dismantle it and try sealant (despite the PITA factor).

[Reveeen]

Scratching head......

Seems to me that Mikuni spigot type manifolds have kind of a raised ring on the head side that functions like an O ring creating a seal, Now I know KZ1000's have the same kind of thing, and small Hondas too, so I am wondering if you had the same, and it's just squashed flat, and kind of hardened?

The others are right, silicone is a bitch to clean up, so if I was trying to get a seal between semi-hard rubber (a flat surface) and an alloy head (another flat surface) I would use likely Permatex #2, because I have a large tube of it, and alcohol cleans it off, Now, it is not going to seal a gaping hole, but it would be ok for flat to flat. I use it on the water passages on automotive intake manifolds/ heads and the steel intake gasket, and haven't had one leak yet.

[katoranger]

I jb welded the carb to the intake manifold on my 86 escort. 8O

Worked great.

[FastDoc]

Scratching head......

Seems to me that Mikuni spigot type manifolds have kind of a raised ring on the head side that functions like an O ring creating a seal, Now I know KZ1000's have the same kind of thing, and small Hondas too, so I am wondering if you had the same, and it's just squashed flat, and kind of hardened?

The others are right, silicone is a bitch to clean up, so if I was trying to get a seal between semi-hard rubber (a flat surface) and an alloy head (another flat surface) I would use likely Permatex #2, because I have a large tube of it, and alcohol cleans it off, Now, it is not going to seal a gaping hole, but it would be ok for flat to flat. I use it on the water passages on automotive intake manifolds/ heads and the steel intake gasket, and haven't had one leak yet.

I think your theroy on the 'O ring' area being old, hard and squashed flat (sounds like me after the divorce) is correct. Is Permatex easy to find in the auto store? How long does it take to dry?

[Reveeen]

Is Permatex #2 easy to find in the auto store?

It's easy here.....it kind of never "dries", it is extremely sticky/viscous, kind of hard to explain.....you would squeeze some out of the tube on your finger and smear it on the mating surface thinly/evenly, then bolt it up. You will need some alcohol to clean your finger. If you were trying to seal up a copper head gasket you would use their aviation sealer as it withstands high heat. You have to specify #2, as they make a whole range of sealing products, the #2 being general purpose.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Form-A-Gasket_No_2_Sealant.htm

[FastDoc]

Thanks. I think that's the answer.

Heres a pic of the flattened O ring 'area' on the old boot. I bet this is my problem:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/maule/DSC05489.jpg

[Reveeen]

The BEST sealer I have ever used was some blue sh*t that I was buying from Chrysler>Rootes group>Simca. I haven't seen it for years, designed to seal up Simca air cooled engines, it would seal up a set of Harley cases 100%. It was very much like the Permatex #2, a little more viscous, and a little stickier, it would harden almost like epoxy. It would seal craters, with given the condition of some old Harley cases, it was a good thing.

[FastDoc]

Gotta a tube of Permatex #2 at the store tonight. $6. My gaskets ($11) should be here soon. I'd LOVE if this finishes my project! It is such a nice little bike, and even in its current state rides well, but I know it can run nearly perfectly, and that of course is what I'm after.

[FastDoc]

Ebay dude only sent one gasket, there were supposed to be two. I'll buy some gasket material at the auto parts store and trace this one and probably send it back as both gaskets will need to be the same thickness. Nuts.

[FastDoc]

The Kawasaki is whole. :P

I made my own gaskets out of gasket material after using the correct one as a template. I sealed it all up with Permatex number 2 and it is leakfree. 8)

My 'hanging idle' was due to greatly imbalanced carbs, one was racing while the other was at idle. Unevenly yoked, as it were. :?

I adjusted them by ear, I'll bring the bike to Andy to get them properly balanced soon.

A wash and a wax, and she's going to be my commuter bike tomorrow. :D

[Weldangrind]

That rocks!

Were you able to set the carbs in a similar fashion, in addition to setting them by ear? What would your friend Andy be able to do beyond that? I'm asking because I have no experience with multiple carbs, and I'm only guessing at the procedure.

[FastDoc]

That rocks!

Were you able to set the carbs in a similar fashion, in addition to setting them by ear? What would your friend Andy be able to do beyond that? I'm asking because I have no experience with multiple carbs, and I'm only guessing at the procedure.

Both carbs are hooked to individual vacuum gauges and one is set to the other, at idle. Andy has the instrument (he's a mechanic), and I lost/broke mine years ago. Since carbs so rarely need synchronization I'll just pay to have it done. :D

[SpudRider]

Thanks for sharing the good news, Doc! :) Please let us know how well the bike runs after Andy synchronizes the carbs. :)

Spud :)

[Weldangrind]

Both carbs are hooked to individual vacuum gauges and one is set to the other, at idle. Andy has the instrument (he's a mechanic), and I lost/broke mine years ago. Since carbs so rarely need synchronization I'll just pay to have it done. :D

That's intriguing...

How do you connect a vacuum guage to the carb? I've done that on Quadrajets to balance both sides, but I haven't seen a vacuum port on a bike carb. Maybe that's unique to multiple carb setups.

[SpudRider]

Both carbs are hooked to individual vacuum gauges and one is set to the other, at idle. Andy has the instrument (he's a mechanic), and I lost/broke mine years ago. Since carbs so rarely need synchronization I'll just pay to have it done. :D

That's intriguing...

How do you connect a vacuum guage to the carb? I've done that on Quadrajets to balance both sides, but I haven't seen a vacuum port on a bike carb. Maybe that's unique to multiple carb setups.
Here's a link to a post describing the process, WG. :)

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/motorcycle_carb_sync/index.html

Spud :)

[Weldangrind]

Thanks Spud. I guess I could have checked; we have Google where I live. :lol:

[SpudRider]

Thanks Spud. I guess I could have checked; we have Google where I live. :lol:
No problema, amigo. :lol:

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

I took it to work today. It runs well, although it's no Gold Wing! Bikes have changed a lot in the past 33 years. So have I. :?

[SpudRider]

I took it to work today. It runs well, although it's no Gold Wing! Bikes have changed a lot in the past 33 years. So have I. :?
Amen. ;) I am glad the bike runs well. :)

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

Maybe I'll give this a try. Cheap. Very much in keeping with the Chinarider's tradition!

http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp

[SpudRider]

Maybe I'll give this a try. Cheap. Very much in keeping with the Chinarider's tradition!

http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp
Indeed, how can you go wrong for $1.55? :D

Spud :)

[Reveeen]

There is/was a tool called a uni-sync that you used on multiple carb set-ups on cars that works just fine on twins.

http://www.1800vw.bizhosting.com/uni_sync.html

What I do is remove the air cleaners and use a piece of vacuum hose, one end in your ear (to listen) the other end down the throat of the carb, both carbs should sound the same, adjust the idle speed screws until they do. (this is provided there is one cable pulling both carbs open, you set the one that is fixed to the shaft then adjust the other that has the adjustment independent of the shaft. A two cable set-up is set differently and is really time consuming as you have to set the idle speeds (with the idle speed screws) then set the cables (adjust the lengths) at around 1500rpm)

[FastDoc]

It occurs to me I'd also need some sort of adapter to put the hose onto the fitting of the carb. I think I'll just let Andy do it. He's do it for free in exchange for a flying lesson. I've got it good, gentlemen. Except for that divorce thing, but even that has it's up sides. :?

[katoranger]

Even more fun. 4 carbs. A friend likes the early wings.

[FastDoc]

I has a GS1100 for about 15 years and did the carbs on it. time consuming but not rocket science. Problem is I've long ago lost/broken the mercury manometer. :(

[FastDoc]

Another pic for Spud, et al.

Hopefully it's cool 'Collector Vehicle" plate shows up in the picture. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/maule/2-14.jpg

[SpudRider]

Thanks, Doc. Every time I look at your bike, I wish I still owned my 1979, Honda Hawk II. :)

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

Thanks, Doc. Every time I look at your bike, I wish I still owned my 1979, Honda Hawk II. :)

Spud :)

When you're in my neighborhood, you are welcome to ride the 400, my 1978 GS750, Q, the Kawasaki Bayou, and if you feel up to it, the 850 pound 125HP Gold Wing 8O

[SpudRider]

Thanks, Doc. Every time I look at your bike, I wish I still owned my 1979, Honda Hawk II. :)

Spud :)

When you're in my neighborhood, you are welcome to ride the 400, my 1978 GS750, Q, the Kawasaki Bayou, and if you feel up to it, the 850 pound 125HP Gold Wing 8O
Thank you, Doc! The next time I pass your way, I will gladly accept your kind offer. :)

Spud :)