Is saving money worth my life?? Something to ponder.......

[red2003]

Now that I have your attention, I have a topic of debate. As you all know, I have tinkered and tinkered on my Roketa to make it a better ride, better performance, yadda yadda yadda. I was out riding last night to road test the new rear suspension (which is to die for BTW) and could have easily been killed by my bike. Coming around a corner in town (luckily) I heard and felt something in my back wheel flopping around. I pulled over to find my complete battery box assembly hanging by the cables flopping around in my rear wheel. The battery box welds (if they even qualify as welds) had come apart and dropped the box, battery and all onto the rear wheel. If this had happened at 60 mph on a corner, I'd be done for. This is atleast the third battery box I have read about falling apart, and I check it every time I ride. Recently rear spokes have broken and popped tires at highway speed, swingarm bolts shear off, rear brakes are flawed from the factory and bound to seize if not modded. Guys and gals I pose to you this question. Is saving money worth risking our lives on these bikes? I can deal with sub par lighting, and cheesey front fairings, and plastics way to hard for a dual sport, but mechanically these bikes are dangerous. My bike only has 250 miles on it and all of those are paved road miles, so the chassis has not been abused. I don't see that battery box design lasting 5 minutes if you were to run off road with one of these. I'm open to thoughts and concerns. BTW, I will fix the battery box this weekend (going under the seat) and be out again as soon as the roads are clear! More snow coming tonight!

[Penguini66]

I ponder the thought every day I ride since I as well have about 99% on-road miles. Worst thing I had happen was one day when I exited the highway and, coming up to the stop at the end of the ramp, I noticed I had no rear brakes. I looked back to see the rear caliper dangling by the brake hose. Good thing we got front and rear brakes on these things.

But to your point, it is a very serious valid point. I altered my daily commute route so that I'm at low speeds and off the highway most of the time. It takes me about 15 minutes longer but I enjoy the ride so it is worth it. I do get on the highway for about 2 miles but try to keep the speed reasonable and stay extra alert. Still, I understand bad things can happen.

So is it worth it? That's definately a personal choice I guess. Life is just a series of risks of varing magnitude. Here's how I justify it: I figure it is dangerous to ride a motorcycle period. For two main reasons. 1. People in their cages simply don't see motorcycles. 2. If you do get in an accident the concequences are typically much more severe on a motorcycle. But at the same time, I think that the odds/statistics of of a 'typical' accident -vs- a mechanical failure are in the favor of a 'typical' accident. In other words, I think it is less likely that you will have an accident from a mechanical failure than any other type of accident. If the risk of a 'typical' accident has a magnitude of 10, the risk of an accident from a mechanical failure caused the by the build quality of your Chinese motorcycle is 2. If you average that out, your overall risk factor is only slightly worse than the guy riding the Japanese, US or European bike because those guys have to deal with the exact same 'risks' that you do while out on the road. Plus, even though their bikes have superior build quality, they still do, to a smaller extent, have to deal with the same mechanical failure issues. In addition, we do have the fact that its pretty hard to be involved in a "high speed" accident on one of these (although I do understand that, even with a helmet, you're never really safe at any speed).

[fatboy250]

Coming around a corner in town (luckily) I heard and felt something in my back wheel flopping around. I pulled over to find my complete battery box assembly hanging by the cables flopping around in my rear wheel.

That was about 500 miles for me. Dad's is still holding together fine at 3800 miles. Go figure. Guys, if you have the means, just weld over the existing welds to strength the entire cage as a DS prep.

Jason

[red2003]

Yeah I remember yours coming apart Fatboy. You've had a few close calls, but you also have a lot of miles racked up on that badboy. My battery is going under the seat this weekend. It looks like there is room right behind the top shock mount. I was thinking of just beefing up the stocker, but I really don't want it hanging out there in the breeze anymore. Like always, I'll take pics and post results. The good news is I don't have to worry about my bike killing me, my fiance will after I am in the shop again all day Saturday 8O . Anyone seen any good deals on roses and chocolate??? :D

[panterra_rider]

Personally, I applaud you DS guys for making a go of it with these as personal transport.; I don't think I would commute on one of these bikes yet (maybe in a year or two - on the bright side Chinese quality J-curves). Mind you, there seems to be far more available in the U.S. right now so it's not like I have a major choice.

That said, for sport and leisure, the price can't be beat and because I don't dirtbike that often these days I can give the bikes a thorough going over before I go out of riding...plus I can take a break and get off the bike and check things over part way through the day. Speeds are not usually enough to kill me either.

The other thing to be mentioned is that hopefully the market starts to get more discerning among even the Chinese brands and a few makes/factories emerge as leaders (and those should be supported - at least until you get huge mark up :roll: ) For my part, it sounds like Lifan is doing well - and my Hensim bikes are okay (don't know if they have a DS).

On that note, maybe we should start a list of recommended/safe manufacturers?

Cheers,
R.

[Penguini66]

Anyone seen any good deals on roses and chocolate??? :D

Roses and Chocolate will only get you forgiveness. If you want her to forget about something, buy her shoes.

[red2003]

Anyone seen any good deals on roses and chocolate??? :D

Roses and Chocolate will only get you forgiveness. If you want her to forget about something, buy her shoes.

So THAT'S what I've been doing wrong all these years. I knew I loved this site for a reason!!!

[fatboy250]

The good news is I don't have to worry about my bike killing me, my fiance will after I am in the shop again all day Saturday 8O . Anyone seen any good deals on roses and chocolate??? :D

:lol: :lol: :lol: That's funny!! My Mom is getting to be the same way with Dad and these bikes. He's like totally ignoring yard stuff and things that he is usually very much on top of. But what can I say, he's got the motorcycle bug now.

Jason

[TheOtherRide]

Dude, get her a bike! Now I am the one letting house & yardwork slide, because who cares? I'm out on the bike!

Although shoes would be nice...still want those Thor 50-50's...guess I won't have a guest appearance on "Sex and the City." :P

Anyhooo... When I'm riding behind my boyfriend on his KLR650, even though I know it's a good bike, I still think about things that could go wrong, from tire blowouts to hitting a deer. There are no guarantees! But I'm out there, not sitting on my butt watching TV, waiting to die of high cholesterol.

The best thing I can do is to take all the info here to heart...MAINTAIN your bike correctly (grease!), CHECK for loose stuff every ride, REPAIR/MODIFY/STRENGTHEN the factory dumb stuff (battery boxes, bolts, tubes), and don't use the bike beyond it's capabilities.

[culcune]

Getting back to the killing stuff; how much better are the more expensive brands of the Chinese bikes, such as the Zongshen Sierra (Polygonfla, Beerslayer?), the Diamo, or the UM's? What about buying from a dealer? Didn't you buy from a dealer, Red?

[John22j]

First - glad you didn't go down after the battery fell off.

Now, If it's a money vs safety thing then let me ask it this way --- is buying a new china bike less safe than buying a 10 year old major brand bike?

Since I'm done riding on the road I guess I don't really want to get on that side of it... but like Panterra said, for the dirt my little Hensim is top notch. I believe it will hold up at least as well as the Honda I had in the 80's. I'm certainly not going to take it easy on my bike -- my philosophy of buying china was that it's worth the chance... if the thing holds up I have found a real bargain... if not, I was willing to chance it.

That's why I bought a China bike -- some buy them because it's all they can afford.... I'm sure there are unsafe bikes out there -- there are also unsafe riders. I think you should not ride any bike that you feel is unsafe -- no matter what the name brand or price. Why would you knowingly put yourself at risk... now realize what you feel is unsafe there are others who would not hesitate to ride. It's a personal case by case situation.

[molypod]

Good thread!

I deal with the effects of hazards at work all the time as well as human error, AKA pure stupidity. When I was pondering getting another bike ( I haven't had a bike for 7 years) My wife thought I was loosing my mind after all the on or off road crashes with major injuries including alot of deaths due to high speed MBI's ( Motorbike Incidents) that I have seen. I settled on a smaller dual sport that was cheap on the budget for use mostly off road. If my bike was to become a Hazard ( due to multiple problems that are a safety issue) I would part it out in a heart beat.
I haven't to date, had any thing on it I would consider a Type C hazard (imminate chance of injury and harm) that would cause me to take my bike apart. I would never sell it to pass on the Hazard to someone else.

[red2003]

Well thought out comments to all! I got my bike on eBay and assembled it myself. Like I said, I don't mind tinkering, and I don't mind improving, but I'm not sure I'll ever ride this bike without a little voice in the back of my head saying, "what happens if the swingarm bolt snaps?", "What happens if the front tire blows because a spoke crapped out?". I've never owned a bike where my concern was mechanical failure. Too much speed and stupidity on my part, yes, but not because it was just poorly built. I totally get the risk of riding a motorcycle, or walking out the front door for that matter, but at what point does the possibility of risk become a probability?? Things that make you go hmmm..........

[red2003]

Now, If it's a money vs safety thing then let me ask it this way --- is buying a new china bike less safe than buying a 10 year old major brand bike?

Before this happened I would have said no, now I'm not so sure.

[John22j]

Yes - things that make ya go hmmmm.... if you're not so sure about the safety then best bet might be to start looking for another ride.

Doubting the machine could possibly lead to making improper decisions during a ride. Dunno - tough call for ya. Good luck with whatever you decide is best.

[red2003]

I'll definately keep it, and definately ride it. No doubt there for me. Not sure I'll 2 up with my son again. Maybe after I get the battery fixed and put some more miles on it, it'll calm down for me. I've experienced this feeling before. I raced DIRT Late Models and Open Wheel Modifieds all through my 20's and the first race, first corner with a new car was always un-nerving. Sliding it in sideways at 120 mph makes you think for a split second, "gee, I sure hope this sticks or that wall is gonna leave a mark 8O !!!" Life's a risk, I get it. All is good!!!

[4xflyer]

With the addition of your new rear suspension the g-load stress to the bike will be much less. Too high tire pressures may cause additional stress.
Take a tip from the enduro guys and safety wire the spokes where they cross, just in case one breaks..btw be sure the spokes are evenly tightened(not too tight). Use stainless wire....025 or .032.
A smaller battery would be better mid ship!
Generally these little bikes probably have a real max useful load of 200-220 # including rider,fuel and gear.
Be sure all pivoting/rotating parts are lubed!
Possibly replace questionable hardware/shafts with genuine grade 8 pieces.

Judging from your posts you have done as much as anyone to upgrade your bike and make it reliable..Luck has to factor in somewhere, as you may be suggesting.

Ride Safe!

[fatboy250]

I got my bike on eBay and assembled it myself.

That's one of the reasons I ride with a bit more confidence. If someone else had assembled it, I would always wonder did they tighten this or loctite that, grease this or over torque that. At least I have been able to explore the limits of mine and I can rest comfortably in my daily commute knowing that I am well within it's limitations.

The only issue that has come up that could have been a real issue was the spoke break. However, I will say that I had really tested the bike earlier that day jumping RR tracks at a Dukes of Hazzard type crossing. The zip ties should keep any future spokes from puncturing the tire as well as a reinforced inner rim strip.

Jason

[panterra_rider]

Take a tip from the enduro guys and safety wire the spokes where they cross, just in case one breaks..btw be sure the spokes are evenly tightened(not too tight). Use stainless wire....025 or .032.


I've never done this...is a pic in a new thread possible? I think I know what you meant but I wouldn't mind "seeing" it.

Cheers,
R.

[NewEnglandTrails]

Well,

Vigilance and attention to detail is an unfortunate pre-requisite to owning an inexpensive chinese made bike. The same is true for any bike.. no matter where it is made.. You cannot completely sanitize and fool-proof anything on two wheels, when it comes to safety.

I guess I am thankful my Roketa came with the battery under the seat.

My Kinroad has a plastic battery box located in the same spot as the db-07. Mostly offroad riding 250 miles. No problems so far. (knock on plastic) its just a pain to open when you want to service the battery.

In terms of these bikes and commuting on them? I have alway avoided busy thouroughfares, no matter if I was driving a jap bike or chinese bike. One inherently takes on a higher, risk driving a motorcycle anywhere, in the first place. If you are commuting, risk of injury or accident is going to be higher.

As Fatboy mentioned, some sort of reinforcement should be added to the ds prep thread. That is for bikes with external battery boxes.

[4xflyer]

The zip ties should keep any future spokes from puncturing the tire as well as a reinforced inner rim strip.

Jason[/quote]

Zip ties work the same as safety wire at spoke intersections but break down due to the uv, temp changes and moisture. Either method is good! Spokes shouldn't break if maintained although woods riding can sure introduce other factors. Seems many want lighter rotating mass thus try to lighten up their wheels by using light rim strips or duct tape. Not a big factor on these bikes.

[sheadouglas]

What kind of prices are out there for a new set of rims? I guess it depends on what kind you get. Obviously we've got some cheapos

[molypod]

Cheap rims? I concur.

I must've hit a rock pretty hard since I noticed a large dent in my front rim Tuesday.

A good whalloping with a rubber mallet and all good to go again..

I didn't even notice a difference in the ride on the 5KM of pavement from Mtn to home on any of the days I was out this weekend and as far as I know it could've happen either Sat, Sun, or Monday as I didnt give the bike a good look over till tuesday when I re-checked tire PSI and changed the oil.

[sheadouglas]

I was just suspecting this because I have read that people are getting flat tires because the spokes were coming loose. I have also read that people havent had to do as much rim maintenance on other Big 4 bikes. I dont think the rims are cheap, I only stated this because of what I've read. I havent had any trouble with 3000 miles on my bike. Now, that I have said this, I dont want to get anything started by saying that you dont have to do maintenance on rims just because they're one of the Big 4. I am only saying what I've read, defenitely not by experience. I am guessing there is just as much maintenance regardless of what you are riding. Maybe someone can throw in a little bit more experienced judgment.

[ambassador]

Judging from what I've read on this site, Lifans have fewer spoke problems than Roketa... Seems like that's part of the game though, I don't want to spark any debates, that's just how it seems...

[fatboy250]

Although only my Roketa has had a few broken spokes, Dad has had none with over 3600 miles on his. I think it has more to do with the loads and abuse than the manufacturer since the spokes and their replacements are interchangeable for both manufacturers.

Where did you find this safety wire? I think this is a better idea.

Jason

[4xflyer]

Hi Jason,
I got my safety wire from Aircraft Supply (800-569-9397).They have a web site but they don't list safety wire.
It comes in a 1#roll ($12-13) and is good for safety wiring many things. The .025 stainless is the best compromise between strength and flexibility. The special safety wire pliers make it a lot easier and do a better job but are not required.
The wiring of your spokes while not preventing them from breaking, strengthens them somewhat and may prevent a broken spoke from flailing about doing tertiary damage.
There are other sources such as aircraftspruce.com and ddaircraft.com
Gary

[SamM]

Great thread! I thought I'd throw in on it. It doesn't matter what you ride. All bikes have issues. Sure some are better than others, but no bike is immune to problems. No matter how much you spend on it. My KTM 950 cost much, much, MUCH more than my new Viva. The KTM has 3 recalls on it right now! One is a rear brake mastercylinder recall. The recall letter states that under no circumstance whatsoever, is the owner to ride the bike until the recall is done. I've been riding it for 3 months like this. The recall only effects the performance of the rear brake and can cause it to lockup during use, potentially causing a crash. OK, no big deal! Don't use the rear brake. I never use it anyway so it doesn't effect me. The dealership just ordered the parts and everything should be fixed in a couple weeks. I can live with that!

Motorcycles are dangerous, period. You can lessen your risk by getting some good training and reading whatever you can about safety and riding technique. That will go along way to potential save you in a crash or a dodgy situation that you may find yourself in. Maintaining the bike to very high standards is also very important. Finding a loose nut or missing bolt before the ride is an important part of the experience. You should know your bike and as you get more familiar with it, you will know what to look for and what needs looked at.

On these china bikes, design and manufacturing problems seem to be a nagging problem. I feel that for the money, they are great bargains and can be made much better. Without spending a boatload of cash!

KISS: Keep It Simple & you're not Stupid!

[CathastrophiX]

Not all bikes from China are just crap...
If you want something made at the lowest possible price, it can´t have the highest possible quality too.
My BMW F650 was 5 times more expensive than my Qingqi, but the quality sure wasn´t 5 times better.
I choosed the Qingqi because it looked much better than the rest of the china bikes, time will tell if it is better...
I have a Lifan 50 cc scooter that I have abused at full throttle for three years an almost 3000 kms now, and it still looks like new and runs just fine.
By the way can you sell products in the US that is potentially dangerous?
Don´t you sue each other all the time? :wink:

[SamM]

That's a stereotype! Not everyone from the US is sue happy! Do all women in Sweden have blonde hair? :D

[red2003]

Not all bikes from China are just crap...
If you want something made at the lowest possible price, it can´t have the highest possible quality too.
My BMW F650 was 5 times more expensive than my Qingqi, but the quality sure wasn´t 5 times better.
I choosed the Qingqi because it looked much better than the rest of the china bikes, time will tell if it is better...
I have a Lifan 50 cc scooter that I have abused at full throttle for three years an almost 3000 kms now, and it still looks like new and runs just fine.
By the way can you sell products in the US that is potentially dangerous?
Don´t you sue each other all the time? :wink:

No one, especially me, has said these bikes are crap. They are surely not. BUT, they have NO quality control and it only takes one cheap bolt to snap and you're dead. A lot of these bikes enter the US in the grey market, and have NO standards set on them at all. I bought mine on eBay and it came in a crate that, I'm sure, no other American had ever opened or laid eyes on. It's why we need such an extensive prep thread on this site for these bikes. So, they are not crap, but they are also not build to American, European, or Japanese industry standards, which is kinda scarey.

[CathastrophiX]

Do all women in Sweden have blonde hair? :D
Yes of course, and they´re really sexy too! 8)
Seriously, I have American relatives and I remember once when we were kids and I took a skateboard from a kid, maybe 5 years old, and he yelled at me -I´ll sue you!
And all those annoying and stupid warning labels on everything, aren´t they for the US market?

I like this one:
http://www.dekaltrim.nu/produkter/bilder/9047.gif


:D :D

[mdsuave13]

the one thing i have decided about this bike is that it is like being in a relationship. It is a lot more work then just having a "FWB" if you catch my drift.

You have to spend more time with these chinabikes and actually do a preride inspection (which is actually a really good habit to start on ANY bike)

but these chinabikes tend to have quality control problems, so you need to make sure to stay on top of, repair, replace, upgrade any stuff you see going wrong. Its not quite like owning a jap bike, where you can just hop on and ride without thinking.

I don't think they are dangerous, but you do have to make sure to pay attention to the little things, and every so often go over things and tighten things and inspect other things... I would much rather ride my lifan then get a yamaha d/s of the same size, or a suzuki.. there really just isnt much difference in my opinion...

[SamM]

Yes of course, and they´re really sexy too! 8)

That's what I thought! :D