working with fiber glass

[mizke]

any one here ever worked with fiber glass ? im wanting to learn some about it so i can do things like fix my atv body, build a battery box and then use it in other area's for other things like a custom box for my sub in the mustang..

any hints, tips or how to's would be a huge help since i want to learn about it before attempting to do anything with it.

[FastDoc]

I don't think it will work on a plastic ATV body due to problems with adherence of the resin but I dont know.

All I can add is when you work with this sticky slimy toxic irritating stuff wear cloves and a mask. I've used it for simple auto body repairs, the Vetter saddlebags on my GS, and some other stuff. I don't think it's rocket science but it takes a lot of practice to be good at it. Makes a heck of a mess.

[bigheavy150]

yea, i use it sometimes at work. I dont think it will stick to the plastic but you can totally make any kind of box or shape with it. You just need a mold.

Styrofoam works great. make your mold from foam. then get all your sheets of glass ready, all your tools(metal roller,paitbrushes,electric sander or sandpaper, LOTS of rags, scissors,a really dull paint scaper,sheets of plastic),gloves,wear old clothes,get everyhting you might need.

Mixing the resin can be tricky unless you use the 50/50 mix stuff, i have never used that stuff so IDK. I used the 98/2 mix stuff in which case be REALLY carefull mixing. One or 2 drops to much hardener and it will start making A LOT of heat. Like,burn your hands hot. And it will get hard too fast and wont be strong.

Once you have all your stuff ready wrap your mold in plastic (or some kind of heavy wax if you have it) you just lay your sheets of fiber on the mold and paint on the resin, making sure ALL of the fibers get wet. and no air bubbles. Dry fibers or bubbles will create weakspots, once that weakspot flexes it will spread. Then put the next layer on, paint with resin and use your roller now to squeeze out some of the excess resin. Keep doing this untill you have all your layers on. Dont be afraid to make thick spots where you will be mounting.

Stager your layers! You dont want the edge of the sheets to all be in one spot. Like if you lay one sheet on and it covers one whole side of the box, then your next layers edges should be 1-3 inches to the side of the first. Orelse the glass wil crack right at the edges.

. Pay special attention to corners and edges make sure that all layers are touching eachother.
Beware, even if you do it all right the fibers will try to lift off of the surface!!! keep checking it every 5 minuets untill it is dry

Idealy when you are doing flat surfaces and you get all your layers on you would lay another sheet of plastic on top and squeeze out as much resin as you can. But you are just making boxes so it should not matter.

Anyway, thats just the rundown.The first 2 times i used it i left to much resin on and the whole thing was heavy but not so strong. the glass is just there to hold the fibers. Anyway be prepared to make 2-3 boxes before you get one that lasts forever :D

you might want to read some guides on the net. But once you get the hang of it then its easy shmeasy and you can make just about anything real cheap

[mizke]

wow thanks guys, and i get the idea about how the layers should go on.. my first thing is going to be a battery box and intake box but its got to look good so i am more then willing to take my time and make a few test boxes before i go for gold


lemme ask this, could i use card board that has a single layer of duct tape all over the outsides of it covering all card board... and would something like non stick cooking spray work instead of wax ?

[mizke]

another question that just came to mind, since the resin and glass wont stick to my atv body.. could i use the body as a mold and lay the glass on it to make a new fiber glass body for the quad. or would it not be strong enough to handle the vibration ? i would of course make it the same thickness as the plastic on the body.. i just want a new body or better body with out paying the 200 to 300 to gio for a new body in a color i dont like

[bigheavy150]

another question that just came to mind, since the resin and glass wont stick to my atv body.. could i use the body as a mold and lay the glass on it to make a new fiber glass body for the quad. or would it not be strong enough to handle the vibration ? i would of course make it the same thickness as the plastic on the body.. i just want a new body or better body with out paying the 200 to 300 to gio for a new body in a color i dont like

I never tried anything that big but people make car bodypanels all the time.

You would probably need to be pretty good and have all the right tools for it to last long. Also i think once it was thick ehough to be strong (1/10 inch??idk) it would be like 50lbs. fiberglass is heavy for its volume.

[mizke]

oh ok well maybe i will just sand the body down, spray it with primer and adhesion promoter then spray it with gel coat. a video on youtube should a guy doing fiber glass making a trim peice for his car. he sprayed the mold with gel coat after rubbing some fiber glass wax. it was a very nice white that looks like it would be a good platform to paint from

what about the whole using card board wrapped in a nice layer of duck tape to keep the resin from soaking into the card board. would that work to make molds ? if so i could do a awsome battery box/intake box for the quad

[bigheavy150]

yea you can use just about anything as a mold. But remember that glass sticks to everything you dont want it to stick to ;)

Also,the 2 part epoxy gelcoat is the best paint ever.

[kmoore]

you could make your own body kit but it would take a lot of time and patience and it would weigh a lot more than stock plastics... but then again at the same time you could make your quad look like any kit you want(with a little patience and skill)

[kmoore]

what about the whole using card board wrapped in a nice layer of duck tape

friend of mine used cardboard as a mold for a cowl hood for his mustang he use a thin layer of vasoline and it turned out alright

[mizke]

sweet !!! i was given a box with all the stuff to do fiber glass and using card board i should be able to make pretty decent parts when i need them..

[FastDoc]

sweet !!! i was given a box with all the stuff to do fiber glass and using card board i should be able to make pretty decent parts when i need them..

We look forward to the pictures, and maybe a tutorial :D

[Weldangrind]

I've certainly applied fiberglass to plastic with good results. Not sure what type of plastic I was using, but I would guess ABS.

Go to your local fiberglass or plastic shop, and the person who runs the shop will be happy to tell you whatever you'd like to learn. Ask for a product like Long 'n Strong (or similar), because it has kitty hair (the term for fiberglass strands) mixed into the resin. You simply add some catalyst, apply it and let it cure. I used it to repair a dent in the tank of an old XS650 I had, and it did a remarkable job.

[mizke]

if the painting with gel coat idea will work, i have a small chunk missing off the back of quads rear plastic.. its a chunk that has a hump in it that is on the other side as well.. i could use fiber glass to make a copy of the hump on the good side, then epoxy it in place and then use exposy and something from under the fiber glassed peice to hold it in place..then spray the white gel coat as my base coat then i can spray the quad whatever color i want and it will look brand new..might even go with a white and black theme.. or since my rims are blacked out just go for a flat black theme

[Weldangrind]

You could just free-form the fiberglass using resin and cloth. It would take some patience, but you could really spread out the cloth on the underside to give it strength, vs attaching it to plastic with epoxy.

[mizke]

ya i would do that if it all bonds to the plastic or not.. if not i will glue around the edges and stick it in place, then slowly and carefully build up the epoxy and layers of whatever i find that will work to hold it in place..

[ontheroughside]

I'm a Marine Repair Tech and specialized in composites.
When I'm working with someone new to composites, I always stress safety and prep.
Catalyst (hardner) will blind you if a single drop gets in your eyes, always wear safety glasses. You will also want a pair of heavy rubber gloves when handling resin because you don't want to b e in contact with that stuff. Also avoid skin contact with acetone, it'll pass through your skin and into your bloodstrream.
Get all tools together and make sure you have a bucket of acetone to wash your tools and gloves. It's not just clean up, you'll want to clean your tools and gloves as you work.
I find that many people who jump right into a project can make a big mess that takes hours to fix. I always suggest to first try making a flat panel with 2 or three layers of chop strand mat (cheapest material), roll the bubbles out and develop a "feel" for the stuff

[FastDoc]

I'm very glad to have you restate and emphasize in more detail the dangers of working with these substances.

One of the worst injuries I'd ever seen someone sustain, and survive, was a pilot/homebuilder working with epoxy resin in an enclosed hanger without proper ventilation and protection. He lived, but not by much, and he'll never be the same. :(

[mizke]

i wont be working with it unless im outside

[ontheroughside]

I'm sorry to say "outside" is no good. Unfortunately UV's create problems. Sunlight forces resins to begin the curing process prematurely, thus shortening your "working" time. Unfortunately this results in an incomplete cure, that never happens. Please say inside and ensure a "reasonable" amount of ventilation. Also most "resins" require certain temp and humidy ranges for a complete cure.
Another consideration is cure. Resins don't completely cure when exposed to air. So if you want to be able to sand a part after it has cured you need to first separate it from air. Simply placing wax paper over the top and rolling it on (just like it is fiberglass) will create a barrier and make sanding easier without "gum up"
When using isothalic (or orthothalic) resins your most immediate danger is styrene (used as a thinner in the resin) and acetone (known flammable). Styrene is what you smell and if you work with it, is what you smell like...lol
Short term exposure to Styrene won't kill you, it's the fire created by exotherming resin with acetone that will burn you alive. (no vapor...no problem)
Epoxies and there are so many different formulas, are a different story. As Doc says "he'll never really recover". So IMO stay away from epoxies and they are way to expensive for the results you need.

[ontheroughside]

I appolagise if this comes off like preaching. I'm not a "know it all", actually always learning. My intent is for your success and safety. If you lived on southern Vancouver Island, I'd gladly come over to your house and show you what I know
And then your wife/gf would execute me for the smell....hahaha

[FastDoc]

We are all here to learn and enjoy each other's company. Your knowledge is interesting, not 'preachy' at all. :)

[mizke]

ya its all good man, im still going to learn how to mess with it but im going to get gloves, masks, eye protection and wont be messing with it all the time. just when i need to make something.

[ontheroughside]

The really "kewl" part of composites are just like baking a cake
The finished product will "mirror" the mold

A properly catalysed resin (normally 1%) at 70f at 70% humidity will give you about 30 mins working time. From the time you add the catalyst (hardner).
Using a paint brush "wet out" the fiberglass and add the next layer
Keep an eye on your time
When you have all the layers together
(using a fiberglass roller) roll out the air
the pressure applied will determine if just air or resin is pushed out
after your finished carefully slide you hand above your work
feel the heat?
this is exotherm
a very important part of the curing process

[mizke]

see the thing that concerns me is the proper mixing of everything. i dont get how to to determine the "work time" based on the temp and humidity on a given day..

also could some one post a list of things needed to work with fiber glass ? not the tools that are considered "extra" but the things like resin, catalyst, gloves, anything like that.. like i said i was given a box full of stuff to do glass but not sure if its complete or if something is missing..

[ontheroughside]

Good questions. Answers are in metric... cause it's easy for everyone
If your using an iso or orththalic resin (most common stinky stuff) and catalyst plan on using 1-1/2% weight or volume. so for 1 litre of resin add 10-15ml of catalyst. Mix for 2 mins. (commercial "hardners" contain a red dye so you can see it mix)
Tools: thick rubber gloves (think acid handling not cleaning)
scissors (anything that cuts fabric, but doesn't disolve in acetone)
safety glasses*
paint brush ( for tranfering resin to cloth or chopstrand mat)
plastic bucket (for washing tools and gloves with acetone)
plastic bucket (for mixing resin and catalyst "hardener")
mixing stick (if you don't know...quit now...lol)

I put a * on safety glasses. If you try to wash resin off with acetone, they will melt. Instead use methyl hydrate or just get used to the "blob" in eyesight

BTW acetone and styrene will melt styrofoam. A great mold product is playdough. And you can use it over and over.

If your making a "part" you think is in demand. just ask. Permanent molds are simple to make.
Note; I didn't say EASY

[ontheroughside]

oh Sh8t (sorry been drinking)
tools: fibreglass rollers
depending on the inside radius's you want. Start with a 1/4" roller to 1/2". Most composite retailers will have them.

The important thing is to keep your tools clean. Your bucket of acetone is there for that. Intermitantly while working on a particular project. Sticky tools and gloves wreck good work.

Ventilation: its for you not your work. Resin doesn't like airflow. Your body does

[Reveeen]

AND: acetone is as flammable as paint thinner (probably more so because it evaporates faster).

What this means to you: sources of heat are usually sources of ignition (of some sort), in an enclosed space with acetone fumes present (that evaporation) you will blow yourself up in short order. It also burns much like race fuel, meaning: you can't see the flame, and you are burned before you know it. Between that, and the way your body absorbes it, it is nasty stuff, to be EXTREMELY careful around.

It being winter time, where most of us live, it is probably a project left for the summer, out in the yard, or car port.

I have seen a rock, stuck in the tread of a boot, set off some spilled acetone.

[mizke]

ive worked with paint thinners and acetone before.. we used them to clean tools at the staircase company i used to work for.. i am very safe, so eye protection and thick acid level gloves will be the first things bought