Build a trailer hitch for Zongshen Sierra 200

[Jakhack]

This is a continuation of the forum thread "Build a small utility trailer for Zonshen Sierra 200?". I wanted to build a small utility trailer for some minimalist touring, so it had to be light, easy to construct and cheap. It is finished now, after lots of ideas and advice from numerous people, along with a few mistakes. But it turned out pretty well. You can read about that project at:

http://www.chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11400

I registered the trailer today, and it is ready to go, but now I need a hitch for the bike. The following is the build of a hitch, based on other hitches I have seen and some experience with sidecar mounts. Here is the bike with most of the plastics removed:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-17123238.jpg

I want to build the hitch out of mostly aluminum angle with no welding required, just like the trailer. The plan is to have a horizontal brace that will be connected to the passenger footpeg mounts to carry most of the load of pulling the trailer. Then, there will be a near vertical or diagonal brace that will also help with the pulling load, strengthen the hitch and also be adjustable so the hitch can be raised up and down. This will be also be attached using one of the luggage rack mount tabs which are welded to the frame.

Frankly, I do not know how the trailer will pull or what height I want it at, but I am aware that raising and lowering the hitch point can have a big effect on the trailering stability. So I want the option of being able to easily make this adjustment. I also want to be able to quickly remove the hitch.

The end of the hitch will basically replicate the tongue end of the trailer, which you can see on the other thread. There will be "U" made out of a 1/4" x 1.5" steel flat that will be bolted between two aluminum angles. A hole will be drilled in the center of the steel "U" with a high grade bolt attached that will be pinned to the u-joint that is at the end of the trailer tongue. The hitch has several flex points. In addition to the U-joint itself, both of the steel "U's" can rotate and the bolts that are pinned to the U-joint are also free to turn. The idea here is to have maximum flex to avoind putting any side pressure on the bike, since the trailer will be used on unimproved roads and trails.

The following photo shows the template that I made to connect to the frame at the two bolt mounts on the frame for the rear passenger footpegs.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-17123408.jpg

I should offer an explanation of why I decided to made a separate plate to make this connection. I once worked with a guy who raced sidecars in the 1930's and 40. He built some sidecar mounts for me, and would not attach the main mount directly to the frame in a single spot. To make it super strong, he used 1/4 steel plate what was attached at multiple spots on the frame, and then the sidecar was attached to a mounting tab welded to the plate itself. I have had three sidecar rigs, and the one he built was by far the best (the most rigid) I every had. So it seemed like a good idea.

The template shows that I plan to catch both footpeg bolt attachment points on the frame. Another reason I decided to make this a two part system is because I need to have a bend somewhere to angle the aluminum brace back to a junction point behind the rear tire. The next photo shows the template laid out on the 1/4" aluminum plate before cutting it out.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-17123501.jpg

I cut the plate with just a hand jig saw. I have a band saw, but decided to use the jig saw because I need to use it to cut out the center area. It took a while, but I just took it slow and then had to custom fit it to the frame. I don't know if every Sierra 200 is the same, but mine had tabs that were not precisely lined up when they were welded on. And later on, I discovered that the alignment of the passenger foot-pegs was different on the left side compared to the right side. Not exactly sloppy work, but certainly a bit casual. I also cut out a duplicate plate for use on the left side, but ended up having to modify that quite a bit to make it fit.

Below is a photo of the first mounting plate cut out, holes drilled for the footpeg bolts and a bit of decoration. There will eventually be another hole drilled in the back of the mounting plate to attach the horizontal brace or arm of the hitch mount. Like I said, I made a matching plate for the other side at the same time.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-17123952.jpg

The next photo shows the test mounting of the aluminum plate. Rather than change the position and width of the passenger foot-pegs, I decided to put the mounting plate on the backside of the bolt tabs. The tabs are threaded so I replaced the stock bolts with longer ones that goes all the way through the threaded mount and then put the plate on with a nut on the backside to hold everything in place. It all seems to work well, and I think I have plenty of clearance on both sides.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-17124023.jpg

Tomorrow I need to put bends in the mounting plates, drill the hole for the horizontal brace, make those braces, and so on. It was a good day of work, but I was a bit frustrated by the different alignment of the tabs and the footpeg brackets. It is going to require more modifications to get everything fit properly than I initially planned for. But I guess that is why they call it "custom" work.

As before, all comments and suggestions are very welcome. I really want to finish this tomorrow because the forecast is for a mid to upper 40 degree day on Saturday, and I want to go on a test ride.

[Weldangrind]

Love the engine turning! You've got style. 8)

You seem to have considerable experience with sidecars (I have none), so I'm gonna watch and learn. I'm hoping to get a better grasp of your plan as you move forward.

[SpudRider]

Everything looks good, Jak. Thank you for starting another great thread! :) I don't understand how you are going to place the cross brace, but I'm sure I will understand once you post a few photographs of it. ;)

If you go for a test ride, please do post some photos of your Zong in its natural habitat! :D

Spud :)

[SpudRider]

The passenger pegs are spaced differently on my friend's Yamaha TT-R225. Also, the primary foot pegs on my Honda, XR650L are not symmetrical, either. Therefore, I am not surprised the Chinese were "casual" about the placement of the Zongshen, passenger peg mounts. ;)

P.S. I didn't notice you had misspelled "Zongshen" in your trailer construction post. :lol: Therefore, I just edited the title of your trailer post to correct the misspelling. :)

Spud :)

[Jakhack]

Okay, continuing the hitch build, I cut two horizontal braces about 24 inches long out of 1/4" x 1.5" x 1.5" aluminum angle and trimmed up the ends a bit. Holes were drilled on both ends - one to connect to the mounting plates on both sides, and at the other end to connect to a "U" for part of the hitch connector.

The "U" was made of 1/4" x 1.5" flat iron that was 9" long - 5" across the center with 2" tabs on each side. The tabs were bent to about an 80 degree angle with holes drilled in them to connect to the end of the horizontal brace. Then a bolt was attached to the "U" that is connected to the U-joint on the trailer tongue. When connected to the U-joint, the bolt is pinned in place. This is what the "U" assembly looks like:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-18145401.jpg

Here is the "U" assembly bolted to the horizontal braces, ready to put on the bike by bolting the whole contraption to the mounting plates:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-18150539.jpg

The two horizontal braces with the "U" assembly have been bolted to the end of the mounting plates on both sides. Those plates, as you may recall, were attached to the bike frame behind the rear passenger footpeg mounts. Here is what that looked like from the right side of the bike:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-18151211.jpg

Another look at it shows the clearance between the mounting plate and the footpeg bracket. Though it doesn't look like it in this photo, there is 1.5"+ clearance between the horizontal brace and the tire. So there is lots of room on the right side:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-18151156.jpg

But on the left side, the horizontal brace is touching the chain guard, as shown in the photo below. So I have a clearance problem. Since the chain guard will be moving with the swing arm, I need some room there and will have to figure something out tomorrow.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-18205705.jpg

The final piece to the hitch is the vertical brace to support the whole thing. It is attached to the backside of the mounting tab on the frame for the rack. I suppose it looks a bit crude now, but I made it extra long and drilled additional holes on the bottom of the vertical brace because I do not know what the best height for the hitch will be. It is set now at about 20" above the ground, but will settle 3" when I get on the bike. The trailer tongue height is about 17 inches, so it should sit pretty level when I get on the bike.

The hitch height is quite adjustable since the horizontal brace is "hinged" where it connects to the mounting plate, and with the extra holes in the vertical bracket, I should be able to play with this to get it just right. When I get it figured out, I will probably cut off the excess to trim it up better for looks.

But at this stage, this is what it looked like when I was testing where to drill my holes in both the vertical and horizontal braces:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-18153525.jpg

And here it is with the vertical braces all drilled out and bolted together. I don't know if it shows clear enough in the photo or not, but there are 3 extra holes above and below where it is mounted now. Each hole is spaced an 1" apart, so the hitch height can be adjusted 3" up or down from the present starting location. That should be enough to find the "sweet spot" for towing this trailer.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-18205740.jpg

One other bit of flexibility - the "U" assembly can be rotated to a vertical orientation and the bolt connector replaced with a standard 1 7/8" small shaft trailer ball, should I want to use this with a standard type trailer at some point.

After I finished this, I wired the connector in for the tail and stop lights and tested everything. Tomorrow I will work on my left side clearance problem, drill some holes on the top of the horizontal braces for looks and to lighten things up a bit, and make sure everything is tight. Then the plastic goes back on for a test ride. Hopefully I will be able to report on how it all worked out, complete with some total rig pictures, tomorrow night. I can't wait to see how this baby is going to run!

[SpudRider]

Your trailer hitch looks great. :) You might consider either trimming the rear of the chain guard, or removing the chain guard altogether; I favor the latter option. ;) Many rider's remove the chain guard anyway. If you wish, you can remove the chain guard while hauling your trailer, and re-install the chain guard when the trailer hitch is removed. ;)

Spud :)

[Weldangrind]

It looks really good; looking forward to seeing the trailer connected to the bike.

[Wild_Alaskan]

great looking mod, will the hitch carrier clear the axle bolt when the suspension is compressed?

[FastDoc]

You should work for NASA. I think you could build a Space Shuttle. Your thoughfulness and execution are excellent.

[Jim]

How did you decide upon the length of the horizontal bars? I would be tempted to make it as short as possible, because anything beyond the pivot point of the bike, will cause the front of the trailer to swing the opposite way when you turn... I wouldn't be worried about it hitting something, but possibly affecting handling. Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Jakhack]

:D I could not be happier!!! :D I finished the project this morning and did a test ride this afternoon. It was FANTASTIC!

But first, the clearance problem with the chain guard was addressed by simply bending in the back tab that the guard is screwed to. I got more than 1/2" clearance. I did not know that removing the chain guard was an option. I guess I assumed that if the gov't can prohibit kids from buying cycles, then they could require that adults would have to use a chain guard. :wink: Probably just a matter of time...

Spudrider, thanks for telling me this because I might do it anyway down the road. Seems like it would be easier to inspect and service the chain without the guard, just so there is no danger with removing it.

To answer some questions: Wild_Alaskan - there is no problem with the axles clearing. Part of the reason for the mounting plates was to make an attachment point that was a bit out from the wheel to give me the clearance I needed. And you can see that the brace sits a long way above the axle. If I ever hit bumps so severe that the axle comes close to the hitch, then I shouldn't be pulling a trailer. Remember the whole hitch can be removed with only four bolts, if I leave the mounting plate on.

Jim, geometry basically determined the length of the horizontal braces. I knew I did not want the "U" at the end of the hitch wider than 5". So using the known attachment point at the mounting plate and a template of the "U" I set up some trial configurations till everything look right with sufficient room to clear the tires. I did not calculate a length - it just turned out to be around 23.5" so I just cut them to 24. The way I was building it, I new if that was too long, I could always shorten them. So I thought, longer is better cause its tough to add length once you've cut it off. Also, I had looked at the hitches on a couple of other bikes and kinda went by my perception of the proportions. Not scientific, but it worked!

The Zong had only 3 miles on it when I got it and it has been too cold to ride, but today it got up to 46 degrees here in northern Minnesota. But is was a cool 46 - as you can see below, there is still plenty of snow left. The first step of my test ride was to ride the bike solo to get familiar with it. Other than one quick loop around the dealer parking lot to make sure it ran and shifted, I have not been able to ride it. So I put 19 miles on it, tar and gravel roads, to make sure I knew how it handled. That was fun - it has been 30+ years since I have ridden anything smaller than 500cc. Then I came back and connected the trailer and went for a 22 mile ride. Here is how it looked all hooked up and ready to roll:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/2011-03-19141154.jpg

I'm sure that some will not believe me when I say it, but I could not even tell that I had a trailer behind me. I towed beautifully. First I stayed on blacktop roads for about 15 miles and then I went on some washboard rough gravel roads and even with the bumps, I could not tell I had the trailer on. I was worried that it might bounce around a lot since the trailer does not have a suspension, but it did not. Obviously, I am sure I will feel the trailer when it is loaded, but running empty it is behaving perfectly. The only time I could feel the trailer was when I started to weave the bike back and forth deliberately on the way home to purposely sway the trailer, like Jim mentioned. Then I could feel it pull a bit - but even that was hardly noticeable.

My next question was how the trailer would affect performance. Realizing that this is a brand new bike (stock sprockets & tires) and not broken in, I was a able to run it up to slightly over over 60 indicated. Pulling the empty trailer, I was able to get to slightly over 60 indicated. So at this point, I could find no difference in either top speed or acceleration. The engine sounded like once broken in, I could push it to reach 65 MPH. By the way, how accurate is the speedometer on the Zong?

Now for a few more pictures. I am biased of course, but think this is a pretty sweet rig:

With the ignition on, the taillight is working! Actually, the LED light is much brighter than it appears on the photo, and the stop light really shows up well:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/2011-03-19151848.jpg

Another look:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/2011-03-19141300.jpg

FastDoc, thanks for the compliment, but I think I better stay away from the space program. I made some pretty stupid mistakes, including wiring in the trailer lights before I checked how the bike lights were set up. When I got around to connecting the two, I saw I really screwed up by reversing the wire colors. So, since I know I would never remember what I did or how I corrected it, I had to leave notes stuck to the bike for future reference:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/2011-03-19115439-1.jpg

Tomorrow, I may ride it again if it is warm enough. I would try to take and post some video, but don't know how to do it. I use Photobucket and know how to post the link, but not how to embed the video. If someone wants to give me some instructions, I will try to do it.

Thanks..........jak

[SpudRider]

First off, I must state the obvious; all Zongites are innovators! 8) You have done a superb job, and added further luster to The Cult of The Zong, Jak. :D

The Zong speedometer is 10 percent "optimistic." ;) Therefore, multiply your indicated speed by 0.10, and subtract this figure from you indicated speed to approximate your actual speed. ;)

If you loosen the two screws, you can easily remove the chain guard. I frequently remove the chain guard to facilitate wheel, and chain maintenance. Many riders remove the chain guard, and never re-install it. ;) I keep the chain guard attached to both my motorcycles in an effort to keep the chain clean, but I would not hesitate to remove the chain guard while pulling a trailer. ;)

Thank you for posting the great photos, Jak. :) Your Zong, your trailer, and your trailer hitch all look great! :)

Spud :)

[Barnone]

Jakhack,
Sweet success with your trailer and hitch build. Glad to hear that it tows so well. I've been happy with my trailer even when I pull it behind my 125cc monkey bike.

[Jim]

Glad to hear it pulls good :)

About the chain guard, of course removing it is an option, I am not sure that you would be legal to remove it though? Something to check with the local DMV?

I'd like to hear a report on how it feels with the trailer loaded, I wouldn't expect too much to notice with it empty, loaded is when you will notice it. I picked up some dvd racks from ikea on my vulcan one day for my sister, and my bike handled completely different. It also made it apparent I needed air in my tires, something I neglected to notice riding it solo, and being lax on the maintenence. :oops:

One other question, do you have any plans to add signal lights to the trailer?

[Weldangrind]

That is a sweet looking rig. I bet that if you bias most of the load towards the front of the trailer, it will behave nicely.

I covet your Zong.

[Jim]

Wouldn't it be best to center the load over the axle, that way you aren't throwing the weight of the load around when it swings out on a corner, it will just pivot on the axle.

[Barnone]

When I tow my bike trailer, I keep more of the weight forward for tongue weight just like any other trailer. Even with my trailer loaded for a total weight of 100 lbs or so, the weight is still less than a fourth of the weight of me and the tow bike. The loaded trailer is less than a passenger's weight for sure.

[Jakhack]

I wish I had kept a reference link, but once read quite an extensive post somewhere on cycle trailering. Obviously the person had quite a bit of experience and I remember a couple of points. First, they said it was important to keep the weight forward - say 60/40 front to back from the trailer midline. Maybe the principle is like the stability of an arrow with the weight forward. And I have noticed with boats that if the trailer sways or seems unstable, the first thing to try is to move the weight forward and increase the tongue weight.

The second thing I remember from that post was that the height of the connecting point behind the cycle influenced the stability a lot. The problem is that I can't remember whether increasing or decreasing the height made it more stable. I think it was - higher helped. But that is the reason I made my hitch height adjustable - so I had some experimental room if I ended up with an unstable load sometime. If I learn something from experience, I will certainly post it.

Regarding trailer turn signal lights, I passed on this for the present, but may want to do it down the road The tail light I have actually has turn signals built into it, but on such a narrow light, it seemed insignificant. The one reason I would consider turn signals, would be to increase visibility which would be better served if the turn signal lights were on all the time. The Zong turn signals are off unless signaling, so I was not sure how to accomplish all this. If anyone has suggestions, I am always eager to hear of them.

The legality of whether turn signals are needed or not has not been answered. However, I did have a law enforcement officer tell me that cycles were NOT required to have turn signals in Minnesota. His point was that if the cycle was not required to have turn signals, it didn't make much sense to require them on a trailer pulled by a cycle without signals. This seemed to make uncommon good sense, which is probably why I better check it out. It seems the law and common sense occasionally part company.

I don't see any responses about posting video. Surely someone can help me out with this. But there is no hurry since it is misting and cold here today. No riding = no video.

[Jim]

My thought about putting the weight over the axle instead of forward is not a generalization, I am thinking specifically for this trailer / hitch setup that is going to be whipping the front of the trailer in the wrong direction when a turn is initiated. Your hitch Barnone pivots forward, much close to the pivot point of the bike.

As far as the signal lights go, you should be able to get a three wire signal light, and just use the low wire from the tail lamp, as well as the high from the signal light to make it signal and stay on. You should be able to find something similar to the tail light at a truck store. It will probably be a 4" round...

Sorry I missed the question about the video...

[katoranger]

I have used photobucket to host video. Just upload like a picture.

[Jim]

I'd sign up for vimeo or youtube to host a video... Youtube is the standard, I like vimeo better.

[Weldangrind]

First, they said it was important to keep the weight forward - say 60/40 front to back from the trailer midline.

That 60/40 rule also applies to axle placement; the axle should be 60% back from the front of the box, vs. the center of gravity. I did a ton of research before building a box utility trailer, and it behaves nicely behind my van.

This seemed to make uncommon good sense, which is probably why I better check it out. It seems the law and common sense occasionally part company.

That's an excellent expression. If common sense is what the masses have, I'll take uncommon sense any day. :lol:

[Barnone]

The few times I have had trailer sway (oscillating) with a trailer behind my truck is when I didn't have enough tongue weight (10 to 15%).
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/information/tongue-weight.htm

[Jakhack]

I decided to paint the bike since I want to do some "stealth" camping in nearby state and national forests. The orange Zong stands out like a hunter's blaze orange hunting coat, so I decided something a little less visible would be better:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/2011-03-29124530.jpg

Here I am checking out a river in SW Minnesota at near flood stage. Oh yea, in accordance with the sign instructions, I left my dog at home on this ride!

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/2011-04-02100128.jpg

And finally, with the Zong in the background, I am standing by my latest acquisition for winter riding - a 1996 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 with 2006 Motorvation Formula II sidecar. It is a surprisingly good rig, with only some minor tweaking required. My wife loves to ride in it.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/2011-03-30125823.jpg

When the snow is mostly gone, I will start riding my Zong a lot more. I now have a buddy who wants to join me in some small bike tours, so I expect to get a lot of use out of the Zong and trailer this summer.

Later...... Jakhack

[Weldangrind]

Hi Jakhack, thanks for checking in. What does "stealth camping" mean? Do you plan on hunting while you're there? If it's a hunting area, I think I'd rather have the orange. :lol:

How do you find the sidecar handling? I've always been curious about it, but I've never ridden with a sidecar. Does the 800 have enough power to move it comfortably? Nice bike, BTW. 8)

[SpudRider]

Thanks for checking in, and posting the great photos, Jak! :) Your repainted Zong looks great, but I hope you realize you lost speed by switching from the fastest color, orange. ;)

Spud :lol:

[Barnone]

Thanks for checking in, and posting the great photos, Jak! :) Your repainted Zong looks great, but I hope you realize you lost speed by switching from the fastest color, orange. ;)

Spud :lol:
Spud,
Loss of speed and loss of visibility to other drivers also is my concern.

[FastDoc]

I love the pics, and the sidehack. Peter Egan would be proud. :D

A sidehack is a strange animal, Weld. It pulls to the right accelerating, to the left while braking. You can turn left fine until it unweights the drive wheel, be careful turning right 8O . When the sidecar lifts it instantly turns from a 3 wheeler (NON-countersteered) to a motorcycle (COUNTER-steered) and your control inputs are instantly backwards.

I've only tooled around on one though.

Riding in the sidecar is more fun than I can describe. :P

[katoranger]

What river in SW MN? That's my area.

[Jakhack]

Hi Jakhack, thanks for checking in. What does "stealth camping" mean? Do you plan on hunting while you're there? If it's a hunting area, I think I'd rather have the orange. Laughing

How do you find the sidecar handling? I've always been curious about it, but I've never ridden with a sidecar. Does the 800 have enough power to move it comfortably? Nice bike, BTW. Cool
_________________
Weldangrind

Regarding "stealth camping" I had been doing it for years before it had such a fancy title. Aerostich of Duluth Minnesota distributes a small book called "LIGHTWEIGHT: Unsupported Motorcycle Travel for Terminal Cases." This is the first place I saw the term used. There is a section on Authorized and Unauthorized camping in which it is said: "Unauthorized camping means stealth campsites where nobody will see your camp. Good spots can be around gravel pits, along power and pipe lines, behind hills, in acreage that's for sale, abandoned agricultural areas, ravines, forest, etc... places where landowners or caretakers are absentee...."

To me "Stealth camping" is pulling off the road or trail far enough to not be seen. A blaze orange bike would obviously defeat the whole idea. I like this type of camping since I don't have to spend much to get a night's rest. I hate paying large fees just to throw up a tent at many campgrounds for what you get. In addition to places suggested above, I have camped in the back corner of cemeteries, behind abandoned barns, and in state and federal wildlife management areas. Also, there are many forest and logging roads near where I live. This is in semi-wilderness areas where I do not want to invite attention far off the beaten path. I have also camped in farm or ranch back yards with the land owner permission. But you get the idea - it is a lot of fun, especially since it is cheap, and you get to see things few others do.

No, I do not mix hunting and riding. The blaze orange reference was only that the color of the bike was the same as what hunters wear in my area to be seen for miles. I wear LOTS of orange during deer season because I live in the woods and have seen some pretty crazed hunters. I know - I used to be one of them!

Regarding the sidecar, this is my third one, and its a good thing I had previous experience, because I definitely would have had an accident if I were not familiar with them. I don't know what to say, other than sidecars are unlike anything else on wheels. They can be a lot of fun, but they can be more than a handful. I have it because I like them, and like to ride in winter and a sidecar is the only safe way. My previous rigs were much easier to handle than this one. It was somewhat neglected when I got it with a lot of mechanical problems. The clutch and brakes were totally wasted. And it has a steering damper that did not work and was so stiff in the cold weather that I drove into a snow bank when I could not complete a turn around a curve - even using all my strength. I am slowly getting things sorted out and am starting to enjoy it, but it has been a challenge.

The steering damper was on it to control a viscous wobble. I know it was vicious, because I took the damper off to test it. None of my previous rigs required one - so I just had to check it out. I soon found out it was installed for good reason. When I started out, a wobble started at about 12 mph. Usually, if you just hold the bars firmly, you can drive through the wobble point and things smooth out. However, on this unit, the wobble got stronger and so violent that I could not hold both bars. It is a wonder I did not crash or break a wrist. I did have a finger jammed so badly that it became swollen and black & blue - it was useless for over a week. I jammed on the brake and got it stopped. I could only use the back brake because the front brake lever was on the end of a wildly thrashing handlebar. When I got it stopped, the damper went back on immediately.

It turns out that the steering head bearings were loose and once tightened it reduced the wobble by 70%. I am driving it now without the damper, but have to be very careful. But I will get a new damper and put it on soon.

I had sidecars before on other cycles that I rode both with and without the sidecars. I was always excited to put the sidecar on, and excited to take them off later. Two completely different worlds. My advice would be to acquire one that is especially set up for sidecar operation, like the Urals, or a rig already set up and "debugged." Also there are sidecar training programs available now that I did not have when I first started riding them. It would be time and money well spent.

Despite all the trouble, I still always want to have at least one sidecar rig. My wife likes riding in it, and it is wonderful with grandchildren. They are great for camping. And I really enjoy riding them in the winter, especially on a beautiful 20 degree day after a fresh snow. It is an unparalleled riding experience!! Better yet, ride when the snow is falling - going through about 2 to 4 inches of fresh snow on the road. It is quiet and you seem to just float along - probably like the first skier down the mountain.

The bike is a Kawasaki Vulcan 800 and handles the sidecar much better than I imagined it would. I have had it up to about 90 mph, and it could probably go faster, but a sidecar is best enjoyed at 50 to 60 mph. Both my other rigs were 750 to 850 cc bikes and they worked just fine. If I had any doubts it was because the sidecar is a very large heavy Motorvation Formula II unit. In fact, it is so heavy that I have been able to lift the chair off the ground only once for an inch or so, and I had been trying to fly it. It has a 10 gallon aux fuel tank in it, so when that tank is full and with an adult passenger, I would be almost impossible to lift the chair.

Thanks for asking... Jak

[Weldangrind]

Thanks for the stealth camping explanation; it sounds like fun! I'm guessing that you rarely have fires in that situation, lest you should attract attention.

[Jakhack]

SpudRider wrote:
Thanks for checking in, and posting the great photos, Jak! Your repainted Zong looks great, but I hope you realize you lost speed by switching from the fastest color, orange...Spud

Spud,
Loss of speed and loss of visibility to other drivers also is my concern.
... Barnone

Yes, I was concerned that the color change from orange would not be as fast, but I figured that if stealth black was good enough for the military and the stealth bomber, then it should work okay on my stealth china bike!

Seriously though, I was a bit concerned about the visibility factor. I do take my safety seriously, and considered this. But I also read last year that in Europe where they keep track of these things, they found out that riders wearing a white helmet were involved in 40%+ fewer accidents than those wearing darker helmet colors. I started paying attention and found that I too spotted the white helmeted rider better and earlier than those who were wearing a black helmet or worse yet, were lidless. I have a riding buddy who wears a white helmet and noticed that I could spot him traveling a long ways off, when another person riding behind him with a dark helmet was almost invisible.

So I immediately went and bought two white helmets - one for the wife and one for myself - and we wear them every time we ride. My old black helmets are used for guest passengers or snowmobile riding. And you have my word that I will be wearing it even when riding in the woods.... Jak

[Jakhack]

katoranger... What river in SW MN? That's my area.

I don't know the name of the river, but it is usually just a small brook that runs through Minneota, Minnesota, which is about 16 NE of Marshall. I have seen the area flooded, but it did not get out of the banks this time. My son lives in Minneota, and when we visit, I sometimes take the bike along for amusement. I run some of the gravel roads when he is working or someone there thinks I should help with the housework. Like most flatland gravel roads they run pretty much north-south and east-west in perfect one mile squares, so no GPS needed there!!

[Weldangrind]

One of my favourite quotes from the Canadian TV series Corner Gas was:

Emma: "If you're going to stand there, then you can help with the dishes."
Brent: "Well, I better not stand here, then." :lol:

I'm looking for more education on stealth camping. How do you cook for yourself in that situation? Do you use a small propane stove?

[Barnone]

"But I also read last year that in Europe where they keep track of these things, they found out that riders wearing a white helmet were involved in 40%+ fewer accidents than those wearing darker helmet colors."
Jakhack,
That's some statistic. Glad I wear white or yellow helmets.
Do you remember where you read that?

Here's one at
http://www.bmj.com/content/328/7444/857.full
Helmet colour

The main colours of helmet reported by control drivers were black (39.8%), white (30.6%), and red (13.8%). Compared with wearing a black helmet, use of a white helmet was associated with a 24% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.76, 0.57 to 0.99). We found similar associations for red and a combined group of yellow and orange helmets, although these did not achieve standard levels of statistical significance. Self nominated description of “light coloured” helmet compared with “dark coloured” helmet was associated with a 19% lower risk.

[katoranger]

Most of my family lives in the Worthington area. I am familiar with Marshall. Grew up on those gravel roads.

[SpudRider]

...That's some statistic. Glad I wear white or yellow helmets.
Do you remember where you read that?

Here's one at
http://www.bmj.com/content/328/7444/857.full
Helmet colour

The main colours of helmet reported by control drivers were black (39.8%), white (30.6%), and red (13.8%). Compared with wearing a black helmet, use of a white helmet was associated with a 24% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.76, 0.57 to 0.99). We found similar associations for red and a combined group of yellow and orange helmets, although these did not achieve standard levels of statistical significance. Self nominated description of “light coloured” helmet compared with “dark coloured” helmet was associated with a 19% lower risk.
Thanks for posting the great link, Vince. :) Here's another important quote from the same study.

"Drivers wearing reflective or fluorescent clothing had a 37% lower risk of crash related injury than those who were not wearing such materials...the protective association seemed to increase with falling light levels, although numbers were small at twilight, reducing the precision of the effect estimate."

Spud :)

[Jakhack]

I'm looking for more education on stealth camping. How do you cook for yourself in that situation? Do you use a small propane stove?
_________________
Weldangrind

Depends on the situation. Sometimes I use wood if it is truly private and safe. But most of the time I use the small dual fuel Coleman. It is about the size of half a 3 lb coffee can. I like them because they burn either Coleman fuel or regular unleaded gas, which means I only have to carry one type of fuel. Handy. It really kicks out a hot flame so it will boil a quart in what seems only a couple of minutes. I use it to make a one-pot meal of some type, and then while I am eating, I boil more water for my after dinner coffee and to clean the dishes and pot. The stove is too big for backpacking, but just right canoeing or on a bike.

Speaking of camping, I have a new toy to try out this year. I got a tent cot last year which I tested in the backyard, but have not tried it on the bike. That is actually one of the reasons I built the trailer. My days of sleeping on the ground are mostly over - I like a cot and the tent cot is perfect for one person. I have one that packs smaller than most of them - 6" x 6" x 42" in the case. This wouldn't fit well on the back of a bike, but is perfect in my small trailer.

Later ....Jak

[FastDoc]

Stealth camping...

Bring a CCW/sidearm? :wink:

[katoranger]

I got one of the those colemans. Hasn't been out of the shed in years.

With you trailer you got alot of options for hauling gear.


Weld. MN does not have alot of options for camping outside of designated developed campgrounds. Plenty of woods though. Just have to find a place.

[Jakhack]

OK, so I screwed up.

Several of you, plus my brother, suggested there might be a problem, but I thought it would clear. I was wrong - and that's the last time I will admit it. The hitch brace on the chain side did hit the axle.

The reason I was stubborn about this was related to my built in compulsion to have everything as symmetrical as possible. And I built my side braces for the hitch that way. Only a motorcycle is not symmetrical - brake on one side and chain on the other. While the brace cleared the axle on the brake side, it hit on the chain side.

The fix was to lengthen the mounting bracket that I attached to the backside of the passenger foot-peg on the left side. The photo below shows the original bracket along with the stock for a new one. The new one will carry the bracket rear attachment point for the hitch brace out further.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/CameraZOOM-20110413214606.jpg

The next photo shows the new mounting bracket in place with the original one sitting above it for comparison purposes. You will note that the attachment point for the hitch brace is moved rearward and out by about 1.5".

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/CameraZOOM-20110416200045.jpg

I used the old brace and shortened it with the new attachment point being above the axle. I maybe should have lengthened the bracket another inch, but it clears now, though only by a 1/2". I am getting good at making these brackets, and will make another one if this is still not enough clearance. Here is everything new in place:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/CameraZOOM-20110416200431.jpg

I also had to bend the left arm of the "U" for the hitch coupling a bit to accommodate the wider angle for the brace:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/CameraZOOM-20110416204417.jpg


All tightened up it looks like this:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/CameraZOOM-20110416205303.jpg

From the rear:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/CameraZOOM-20110416200321.jpg

All done and everything is back to normal:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/CameraZOOM-20110416200537.jpg

Except for one thing:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/CameraZOOM-20110416080244.jpg

This was yesterday, April 17th!! Living in Minnesota has some perks, but not on a Spring day when it snows. The cat thinks it sucks too... I won't be able to test it out until late Monday or Tuesday.

Here is what it looks like from the right side:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/jakhack/Motocycles/Trailer-Hitch%20Building%20Project/CameraZOOM-20110416200500.jpg

Sorry for the fuzzy pic - maybe I was shaking from the excitement of finally being done (if one is ever done with these improvements). Even though it is not symmetrical, I think it looks pretty good. Also, notice I got one of those top cases several of you recommended from J.C. Whitney. Cheap, but very functional, and seems to work well. And it matches my paint job!

My next project will be to remodel the stock seat, which is way too short for me. I am 6'4" and get cramps occasionally. So I bought a salvage seat from another Zong, and am going to tear that one apart. If it turns out, I will post a new thread and photos of the seat rebuild. If it does not turn out, I always have me stock seat to fall back on...

[FastDoc]

Another attack of global warming. The evidence remains overwhelming...

Your cat indeed looks bummed. Great pic, BTW.

I understand the 'need' for symmetry, but like you say bikes are not symmetric, and function trumps form especially when safety is concerned.

[Weldangrind]

I'll say it again; I really like the engine turned detail on the aluminum. Nice touch.

The trunk looks good on there.

[Jakhack]

Weldangrind.....
I'll say it again; I really like the engine turned detail on the aluminum. Nice touch.


Thanks for noticing. I learned to do this by accident. I was using a small circular wire brush and noticed how it scratched aluminum. So when I was doing this project, I just mounted the brush in the drill press and did it free hand. I am not sure how it is supposed to be done, but it works for me. And I wanted some type of finish so it didn't look like a plain aluminum add on. If you can't afford chrome, this is the next best thing!

[SpudRider]

It appears you bought the large travel trunk, Jak. When it come to travel trunks, bigger is definitely better! :D

Spud :)

[Weldangrind]

Weldangrind.....
I'll say it again; I really like the engine turned detail on the aluminum. Nice touch.


Thanks for noticing. I learned to do this by accident. I was using a small circular wire brush and noticed how it scratched aluminum. So when I was doing this project, I just mounted the brush in the drill press and did it free hand. I am not sure how it is supposed to be done, but it works for me. And I wanted some type of finish so it didn't look like a plain aluminum add on. If you can't afford chrome, this is the next best thing!

You're welcome. :D

I tend towards polishing, but engine turning looks really sharp. BTW, that's how I would have approached it. I've learned to wear PPE, because those metal wires really sting when they stick in your skin. :lol:

[Jakhack]

It appears you bought the large travel trunk, Jak. When it come to travel trunks, bigger is definitely better!

Spud



I do think it looks a bit large, but the space is great. I can get almost two bags of groceries in it.

But then if I was that concerned about looks, I would not have hung a hitch on it. And I certainly would not have changed the color from the original (and very fast) orange color...

[SpudRider]

It appears you bought the large travel trunk, Jak. When it come to travel trunks, bigger is definitely better!

Spud



I do think it looks a bit large, but the space is great. I can get almost two bags of groceries in it.

But then if I was that concerned about looks, I would not have hung a hitch on it. And I certainly would not have changed the color from the original (and very fast) orange color...
When I attach my travel trunk, I don't care how it looks; I'm only interested in how much stuff I can put into it! :) I can't see the trunk while I'm riding, anyway. ;)

Given your Zong's mission, I understand your decision to choose a stealthy color over the fastest color, orange. ;) As a true Zongite, you understandably choose function over form. :D

Spud :)

[Weldangrind]

As a bit of an aside, do you guys find that a bike will behave much differently by adding weight to the trunk? It seems to me that you're changing the center of gravity on both planes.

[katoranger]

Yes.

[SpudRider]

As a bit of an aside, do you guys find that a bike will behave much differently by adding weight to the trunk? It seems to me that you're changing the center of gravity on both planes.
I frequently load up my travel trunk and go for 3-5 day excursions on my Zong; I don't feel the bike's handling is too adversely affected. The worst handling I have noticed is when I fill up the trunk on either of my bikes with a heavy load of soda pop and other groceries. ;) However, even then, the bike handles much better than it would if I were carrying a passenger. :) The travel trunk isn't mounted much farther back than my body. ;)

Spud :)

[SpudRider]

Yes.
I understand your situation, Allen. ;) You scooter is smaller than either of my motorcycles. In addition, your trunk mounts quite high, and much more reward than it does on either of my bikes. ;)

Spud :)

[katoranger]

I think I remember someone else mentioning unstable handling from a trunk. Empty.

So far I have not transported more than about 10lbs back there. No real noticable impact.

I think the problem is wind and airflow.

[Weldangrind]

Thanks for your comments guys. I wouldn't want to buy and load a trunk without hearing about your experience.

[katoranger]

I did load about 120lbs of trailer brake parts on the lifan. 8O

[Weldangrind]

On the stock rack? :!: Jim was kind enough to give me an old Lifan rack for a project, and it sure looks sturdy enough.

[katoranger]

Yes on the stock rack. Went about 5 miles like that. I don't recommend it.

[Jakhack]

The only detriment to having the trunk so far, is that with a bit of hip arthritis, it is more difficult mounting the bike with the trunk. But I seemed to have developed a technique now that I kinda drag my foot behind and lift it a bit, and it seems to clear okay. However, it was easier without the trunk in place.

But this trunk comes with an easy off feature, so in about 5 seconds, I can have it off when I don't want it there, or need to strap something bulky in its place. So I am still satisfied with the trunk purchase.

I have not ridden it in a high wind and have noticed no handling change at all. But then, I have not carried anything more than a bag and a half of groceries. Actually, my frame of reference is riding my BMW K1200LT, which is 860 lbs dry, and then add fuel and a passenger that sit about six inches higher and behind you. Then you put a bunch of crap in that top case - now that can be a REAL handful for me, even though I am 6'4" tall with long legs. So the Zong, even with a full trunk seems light as a feather. And a refreshing joy to ride. The BMW is complaining that it has been neglected of late.

[SpudRider]

I can assure you, the wind blows very strongly in my part of Idaho. ;) I have not noticed any decrease in handling caused by the large, J.C. Whitney Travel Trunk on either of my two motorcycles. :)

Spud :)

[katoranger]

So far handling on the scooter has been fine. The scrap metal yesterday presented more challange.

The scooter in general is toss around easily, but I don't have to lift my leg over it. :wink:

Barnone. Time for a burgman.

[Barnone]

katoranger,
I think I will get a Burgerking 650 next winter and sell my Sym HD200 just for something different.

I'm taking the DF to WNC for the summer so I swiped the trailer hitch off the scooter and installed it on the bobber.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x85/Skeekah/IMG_0760.jpg
Hard to see the hitch but it's bolted on that plate.
We are about a hour and a half from Walmart, Lowes , etc so I need some carrying capacity and the bicycle cargo trailer fits the bill.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x85/Skeekah/trailercoupler.jpg

[katoranger]

I am really liking the trailer idea.

How is the Sym? Would you mind giving us a review?

[Barnone]

The SYM HD200 is a excellent scooter with very good performance. I always say 70MPH and 70 MPG. IMHO, it is a much better vehicle to ride around town here in FL than a motorcycle. Give it the gas and go.

Where we spend the summer in WNC, there is very little traffic and lot of curves and elevation change so I prefer my bikes there.

The scooter is not the right image for a lot of riders but at my age I don't care. I ride it six days a week to the gym.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x85/Skeekah/HD200TrailerBaldRiverFalls.jpg