Qlink XP200 surplus electricity

[trixter]

How much surplus electricity is generated by the stator on a XP200? I ask because I did not hook my bike to the charger the last 2 days while working on it and today after a 1 mile loop the bike died and the instrument panel went dead. Fortunately I was already in my car port.

I have hooked up a garmin zumo 550 gps to the bike in an always on configuration and was wondering if I should change that (it does have a 4 hour internal battery I just wanted to maximize that battery life for "off bike" time).

[2LZ]

Most definitly rewire the Garmin to be off if not in use. Just sits and drains your battery while parked. Will definitely shorten battery life also having a constant drain/recharge scenario going on.

[trixter]

Well it has to be in the cradle to draw anything and most of the time it is not when I am not on the bike. It was just a convenience factor. I am more concerned that riding the bike with the gps is ultimately drawing more current than the stator generates and on a longer trip I will end up stuck somewhere.

[FastDoc]

I can't imagine. I rode my Q all winter with an electric vest and/or gloves which I sure draws dozens of times more current than your GPS. Each Q I have owned needed a new battery.

The problem is likely an old battery. I bet the battery was made in 07 or 08 and sat all this time.

[trixter]

Ok fair enough. I think that mine got really warm before delivery which impacts the battery life dramatically. I honestly dont think the gps draws more than the vest since it charges and operates off USB which is 5v@500mA max. The vest and gloves often draw much more.

[FastDoc]

I'm sure the vest and gloves draw 20-30 watts each at least. With the new battery Q never had an issue powering them both all winter up here and keeping the battery charged.

[trixter]

While connected to the bike the battery would report fully charged (or at least the charger thought so) but I would go to start and the instrument cluster would go dark. I was able to kick start it and it was running really bad, the lights would dim in cadence with the engine sparking (like there just isnt enough current) and I tried to ride it a little and it sputtered and I never got out of the driveway (which is 1/20 or so mile long). As I revved the engine it would almost stall if I did not have the clutch lever depressed. With the lever depressed it was better, although the lights still flickered.

As a test I pulled the battery out of the bike and hooked it to a charger. While out the charger thinks it is full so I am going to reconnect it and see what it says. I almost bought a battery but I dont want to pay a core fee if I dont have to and I also forgot to write down what size the battery is and wally world had enough of a selection that I was certain I was going to get the wrong size and it would either be smaller than I could fit (thus lower amps) or too big.

I have caught up on emails and things that happened while I was away so I will be going out now to test it and will report back assuming the whole thing doesnt blow up on me :P

[FastDoc]

A battery can appear charged, ie have the proper voltage but not function well if it can't produce the amperage. I'd jump the battery to a known good battery and see how it runs. If it runs normally that's definitley the issue.

[trixter]

Battery test has to wait, just for grins I decided to disconnect and reconnect the charging cable, the charger thought that it was low so I am waiting. I also tilted the battery a bit and noticed a ton of bubbles that were trapped at the bottom, much more than I am used to seeing in this size battery (we use the same type for a quad, mower deck we tow behind the quad, riding mower, and other stuff).


I also found someone describing the same exact problem I am having except with a 2008 model (mine is a 2009 even though I just got it).
http://www.fixya.com/PostAnswer.aspx?thid=6425821&prdid=981990&ref=unslt

They say they replaced the battery and the problem did not go away. I may end up calling in for service on this one. The bike is 2 weeks old, so I should not be having any problems like this at all.

[trixter]

OTOH http://www.chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10357 similar problem, new battery resolved it. I do see what appears to be sulfination on one of the plates, there is a white mineral buildup visible through the plastic of the battery. This makes me think there is probably a lot more under there. It is a 2009 and qlink says the battery comes preinstalled and charged - ie they did not pour the electrolytes in the night before and charge it overnight before shipment so they sat for a long time. sigh. I can desulfinate the battery myself and then have a backup or perhaps something to run my ham radios on when going mobile :)

Its only been 2 weeks so here is the question, more for myself, do I pay the $40 at walmart for a brand new battery or drive to the dealer and spend however much time (I was gonna goto cycle gear anyway which is just down the street) to get a free battery. Fuel is going to cost about $12 since I would have to take the truck. I am half tempted to not get whatever battery he has laying around and get a brand new one that I pour the electrolyte in myself. I will see how I feel tomorrow when my banjo bolt (maybe) arrives and I will be able to ride into populated areas with the bike since I will have a front brake.



Tonight I just have to find the wiring harness diagram so I know where to connect the GPS to for switched power. Too bad they dont have a terminal block to make that easy.

[Weldangrind]

I can desulfinate the battery myself...

Please explain. That sounds like useful information.

[trixter]

I hooked the GPS into a black wire (marked brown on the wiring diagram on the last page of the user manual). This is the main hot wire that does the instrument cluster light, tail light, etc. There is a connector at the rear of the bike where it is exposed, brown wire goes to the tail light and black feeds it (its the center wire in I think a 3 wire connector block).

This means it is now switched, and I tested and confirmed that.

While working on this I let the battery charge, any time the charger thought it was done I restarted it by disconnecting and reconnecting it. It is one of those 100% automatic motorcycle ones, got it at Kragen/O'reilly for only a few sheckles. It even came with a pigtail which I installed on the first day I got it.

After finishing I decided to test start the bike. It fired up and no dimming or anything else. This means that it is one of two problems. Either there was a loose wire and I knocked it back into place (which means the problem will return), and I was playing with the fuse to see how it is powered, or the battery is b0rked. My money is on the battery itself given that totally out of the bike it was odd in the way the battery charger would think its fully charged when it is not, what appears to be white crystaline buildup on at least one spot on the plates, and other related stuff. I will seek to replace it.


Weld: are schematics and all that enough help? http://www.instructables.com/id/Desulfator-for-12V-Car-Batteries-in-an-Altoids-Ti/

Google has WAY more results, that was one of the top ones when I searched for it to find you a link.

[Weldangrind]

That happens to me every week.

We have gel cell 12V5A batteries that power an overhead lift, and they certainly don't last forever (usually around two years). They're charged with technology that is similar to a battery tender, and they'll often show 12.X volts, despite having no capacity.

I'm surprised that you found a vendor who would accept sheckels. Quite rare these days.

[FastDoc]

For only a few sheckles.

Are you a member of the same tribe as me? :D

Order a new battery for a DR200SE. It will fit. Don't bother with Q giving you one, they did not do it for me and a good battery is pretty cheap and won't leave you stranded.

[Weldangrind]

If you go back far enough, we're all members.

[FastDoc]

If you go back far enough, we're all members.

Absolute fact! :D

Plus there is the invitation to be grafted onto the tree of Abraham, and the promise that one need not be born a member, as God can make children of Abraham from rocks.

Cool topic though. :D

[trixter]

I'm surprised that you found a vendor who would accept sheckels. Quite rare these days.

It is growing in popularity due to the declining dollar.

Those schematics for a battery desulfinator, in the comments section, someone said they were able to restore gelcells. Those lift batteries may be recoverable.

[david3921]

Trixter, make sure you do careful measurements of your battery before you buy. I took my old battery to Walmart and found the correct amp one (9 Ah) was a little too tall. I found the other stores in the area carried pretty much the same battery so I changed the battery box to fit. I took it out, cut the top portion and sliced in some metal tabs to heighten it about 3/4", and repainted. Now if my battery goes out I can replace it quickly. It's quite a chore to get the box in and out but worth it in the end. The batteries run me about $30 with exchange. It should last a few years with proper care. I know that there are better, and more expensive, ones out there but these fit my needs and budget well.

[trixter]

I did do careful measurements and the only one I found at wally world was a everstart ES12N94B1 which is about 1/16 inch too tall, so I plan to take a jack to the box and encourage it to expand slightly so the battery will fit. I knew it was slightly taller than what I measured when I got it but thought that I could reshape the battery box slightly (without popping welds) to make it work. Your idea of cutting may be slightly better long term. Getting the box out is easier for me because I no longer have an air box in the way :)

It was either that or one that was really small and I was afraid that the Ah rating would be too low and basically it would not be as suitable for my needs.

This is probably the same battery that you were talking about since its a 9aH and is just a hair too tall.

The battery is sitting after putting the acid in, it needs about another 30 minutes. Then I get to charge it which will take a few hours. Unfortunately there is a 70% chance of rain tonight and tomorrow and it has already cooled off quite a bit. This means that the tests I had planned on running to quantify the performance boost from the new air intake, exhaust and carb jet will probably have to be delayed. I want to get that done because I still have a sprocket to add and I want to know what each is going to give me :(

[david3921]

Yep, I think it's the same. I went 3/4" taller to make room for the battery sleeve. I also wanted to be sure that I had enough room to attach the cables as the terminals are a little different than the stock battery.

[trixter]

well if you dont have an air box anymore you can easily connect the positive by removing the seat. It means that it takes a little extra effort to swap the battery but that is usually not an every day thing so it should not be that big of a deal.

I got the performance kit from JP motorsports which replaces the air box with a K&N filter, larger jet and new exhaust (they said its bolt on but you have to make brackets for it to bolt to). This means I have super easy access to the top of the battery once its in the box.

The battery almost fits as it is ...

[trixter]

I took it out, cut the top portion and sliced in some metal tabs to heighten it about 3/4", and repainted. Now if my battery goes out I can replace it quickly.

I am curious what you mean by "sliced in some metal tabs". I am thinking I may want to be a bit lazy. While I do have some metal and I have a welding rig (GMAW which is sufficient) I could cut the top and weld in some supports to make it taller, I also could just cut the top and use rubber straps to hold the battery in place.

The more I think about using the jack to reshape the box the more I think I am going to mess something up and not be happy. Unfortunately tomorrow is supposed to be rain with snow a bit higher up the hill so I probably will not be riding that does give me the day to do whatever it is I am going to do.

[trixter]

David if I dont hear from you I think what I will do since the jack wont fit in the cage is just cut the top where the 3 bits of metal are welded together and bend them up slightly. This will solve the problem of size. I may or may not weld something on top so they dont separate further than they are. I am mostly concerned with sharp edges there since there are a lot of wires and the exhaust hose that goes to the emissions control canister.

BTW it took 5 minutes to remove the cage, 30 minutes to find the two screws that dropped onto the chain, one at the front and one at the rear sprocket. Because they are black and the chain is a little sticky with grease it took forever to actually find them. The airbox must have been what made it a pain for you, and I can see that since it kinda wraps around that cage.

[david3921]

Yeah, it was a bit of a pain. I loosened the airbox to gain more access but it still took awhile. I think that there are around 8 bolts that have to taken off since the starter relay and CDI(?) are bolted to it also.

Here's what I did after removal. I cut the three sides the same distence from the top. That gave me a bit of steel to splice in some tabs of metal to make the box taller. We have spot welders where I work so I found some scrap metal the right size and spot welded them in. A little grinding and sanding cleaned everything up. I have a powder coat gun at home (HF) so I re-coated and put it back in. It's a little tight putting the cable on but all went back ok. And, like you said, not an every day thing so not a big deal.

[trixter]

I am impatient and did not wait for your reply :) I just cut the top near where the 3 bits go together. The strap that goes from the top and around the back (by where the relay or whatever bolts on) I ended up cutting at the band that crosses horizontally. I did not like how close that was to the positive terminal and just foresaw problems with shorting if I did not do that.

I do not have powder coat stuff but I do have a can of high temp rustoleum which should do the trick.


I do not think bouncing will be a problem but I wont know until I get it back into the frame and test it. It certainly wont be a problem greater than it was stock since there was a gap on all sides of the battery. I realize that by not having the bands welded together makes the cage structurally weaker, however if you look at the mounting points I do not think that will be that big of a deal either.

And yes, there are about 8 bolts, 3 are for the mudflap and were the hardest to get to because the rear tire is still in place.


It is snowing so no riding today, the main road I would go out on is on the north side of a hill covered in trees so it does not get direct sunlight meaning it tends to be slicker in weather like this than the other roads. Given that I have 2 weeks total experience and only just over 100 miles I do not think it wise for me to go out today, I also dont have riding pants so I wont be warm.

I dont expect the snow to stick around past tomorrow, once the sun comes out most of it should go away and Monday it should be clear and dry again unless it continues to snow and rain.

[FastDoc]

It is snowing so no riding today.

Where the heck do you live? This has got to be some of the worst GW news I've heard in a while! :?

[trixter]

I am in California near Lake Tahoe (where many ski resorts are).

Actually its not global warming related at all. While it is not "normal" (normal is just the average over time) it is called by "blocking" which is linked directly to solar activity. This is what caused the heat wave over Ukraine, Belarus and part of Russia last year - only difference is there the blocking was over the UK which pushed the warmer equatorial air across Egypt and up into Moscow. Dont listen to Putin who said it was the US weather generating machine as part of an act of war to destroy food crops. He is silly.

We also have that 70 year weather pattern that is responsible for the drought in the midwest, it is the same weather pattern that caused the dust bowl all those years ago. You get 35 years of cooling then 35 years of warming, its very cyclical that way. This is why any "science" based on weather data less than 140 years is not scientific. You get "aliasing" when you sample at less than twice the interval period. Most temperature readings are based on 15-30 year cycles so they are heavily biased, some are on 100 year cycles but they carefully choose the start date on all of those for maximum effect.

Then there is the whole issue of "adjusted" temperatures. NOAA does this because they say that thermometer readings are not accurate and have to be mathematically adjusted to be correct. They even discuss how they do this on their web pages. When you are talking about 0.5-1 degree difference if those algorithms are off even slightly (why are they applied at all???) then you get a shift in temperatures that is not real.

Further many of the weather stations that NOAA has deployed violate their own standards. Sometimes they put temperature sensors right next to the exhaust of air conditioning units, BBQ grills and other things that totally violate the standards they designed which all read higher temperatures than is real. There are entire webpages set up to document these issues, complete with photos of the stations. This is the data that is most commonly used to "prove" global warming.

[trixter]

With the new battery in place the bike started up slightly faster than it ever has which I find a bit amazing since it started fairly easily before and its cold outside. I think that means that ever since I got it the amperage output of the original battery was a bit low so spark was not as hot.

I will keep an eye on it but it seems that all the suggestions that i t was the battery were correct. It is back together and running so tomorrow I should be able to ride. \o/