2022 1/2 Templar X
 

It sat at the depot over the weekend. It was still on the pallet and no signs of damage. The R&L guy was careful and we pushed it off the gate into my trailer. :clap:

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Awesome can't wait to see it.

Mine came in today as well. I will post some pics as I get it together this weekend.

MCO and BOS came in a padded envelope same day! Sez "motorcycle":tup:

Same for me as well. I think I am going to fill it out and give it a try to get a tag.

I went to the title clerks office today and walked out 15 minutes later with registration and a new shiny tag. They had a little trouble finding Zuma in the system under make. They figured it out and I was on my way.

Smoothbore Carburetor
 

I pulled the carb and there are just TWO break-off bolts holding the float bowl in place.

I used a fine saw this time to cut a flathead slot. STILL barely got the first one off. I actually used an impact driver. Shocked at how hard to remove!
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The second one was NOT as cooperative, so I ground off the head and removed the bowl. To my surprise, the shaft of the bolt was EASILY accessible. I could have just ground off the head on BOTH of them. Once exposed, it was no match for a vice grip.

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But the reason became obvious. They are loctite sealing these in place!
HAH!!! No match for a dremel and vice grip!

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BY THE WAY... Threads are M4 -.7
I got a couple of 16mm Allen bolts to replace them.

carb
 

Are you changing jets or installing new carb?

Changing jets. It is a good smoothbore carb. And no need to open the bowl if I was just replacing the carb!

I found #120 main and #40 pilot in there.

That jetting is pretty good for a starting point. Most have come with a much smaller main and pilot. I'm at 600' elevation and similar jetting on my vm26 with the Titan so hopefully will good right off the bat.. perhaps just need to shim the needle one or two washers... will see.. Have you adjusted the jets yet? Hoping its similar to the Titan where you pop off front and rear valve covers and align TDC @ .004?

I'd like to order a couple of parts ahead of time that i know will be changed out sooner rather than later: rear sprocket and chain..

Can anyone confirm this is the optimal rear sprocket: JT JTR210.42

I read of one member using this sprocket but they needed to open up the countersunk holes.. just would like to confirm if thats the general consensus on install or whether there is a better rear sprocket fitment. thanks

I went with JTR210-39T

Any fitment issues? I ordered the JTR210-42T. Figure if 13/42 works for Jerry on the KPX it'll work for me here ;) but if further gearing is needed i can always up to a 14T in front

Wow.. just found the PSM build video for the TX.. thats the most involved build of any China Bike ive seen.. install needed for the whole steering assembly, fork tubes, etc.. ok.. guess its the perfect time to slather as much grease as possible

The original front sprocket is 13T. Combined with the 49T original rear sprocket, this bike excels in tight, steep, and technical off road situations and gears are close ratio since it is geared down so much. But that is the intended market! Makes sense.

I did go with 14T front, but that DOES required grinding a shield down. I will take a picture when I have a chance. I was concerned about keeping the area clean, but the sprocket cover has additional shrouding, so it's OK. I think this will be the same in the new 172-FMM-5 engine, but I might rethink the gearing now that I've ridden it. It has the power to pull 70+, but even my Tusk Dsport beast on the Storm is a smoother road tire!

I'm guessing the 14/39 may cut the torque too much.. i know that there is diminishing returns in some cases where gearing down too much and the bike has trouble maintaining speed at the top end. I'll have to see how the 13/42 does and then maybe go 14/42 like i have in the Titan now..

I am thinking about moving the 39T sprocket from the 2022 Temp X to the 2022 1/2 Temp X to pair it with the original 13T front sprocket. 6th gear might extend that top end further.

Actually, I can just swap the entire wheels. They are identical!

But before I put the wheel back on the 2022, I should drop some off of those 49 teeth... Maybe try 42, as you have, or keep it more geared down. Or something in between like 44. The 2022 doesn't have the counterbalancing, but you don't notice that much off road. The 2022 1/2 will probably have better road manners with that smoother engine, and 6th gear.

I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?

How much elevation change are you talking about? That could make a difference on your choice. EFI will automatically tune itself for the elevation change. If we are only talking a few hundred feet difference it shouldn't matter. 1500 or more feet in elevation change will make a difference on carb jetting.

Given your elevation needs, IMO get an EFI bike, period. Plus the KPX already has dual sport tires, and you may find the gearing right without any changes. EFI is reliable, low to no-maintenance and very adaptable.

Here's some discussion of rejetting for altitude, both for and against. https://www.klrforum.com/threads/car...ltitude.54394/

You answered your on question, planing on riding at higher elevations! KPX is the best choice for you! That is IMHO! Just knowing the elevation in the West can change dramatically. Just my thoughts…

Gonna slightly revise my opinion. It depends on how much elevation change you will be doing, and how often. If you're just going to do trips like this only rarely and you really prefer the Templar, then get the Templar. But if you will be significantly changing altitude fairly often, get the KPX.

Thanks for the feedback. I could potentially be riding up to 7000ft to 8000ft in elevation during a one day ride from home and even higher if I do some road trips I have in mind. I'm mostly having a hard time justifying the $1100 price difference when the primary difference is EFI. EFI aside, I like most of the Templar features better.

Jet for your altitude, and for the average elevation you ride. We are not racers! If you climb elevation, it will run rich. No biggie. These engines are happy to run a little rich.:hi:

Now adding an oil cooler, that might be a good idea for slow trail climbs!:tup:

I just got a pack of these jets. Perfect and less than $8 on ebay
*item 334527584998, Description:
"Carburetor Main Jet 10pcs/Set Slow/Pilot Jet Kit For PZ30"
Vendor is shmoto. They arrived in TWO days.

Original 120 main, 40 pilot
installed 125 main, 42 pilot (45 was too rich, didn't need choke in cold weather!)
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This is why, the KPX, may be the better choice. From where you live at 2500’ to those altitudes are a major change. It is not uncommon for changes like that out West. That will justify the price difference, trust me, I’m from the West, but now live in sea level FL. Again just my thoughts…

My place in New Mexico is at 7500ft, and it is a valley. Town nearby I used to live in is about 6800. I used to jet a bit lean, and when I road into the mountains, it ran a bit more rich (perfect), and I never had any problems (8500-9500ft, even higher). Back in town, I needed to choke to start.
All of this scary talk about elevation changes is a bit overblown.

I remember reading in an aftermarket carb manual for cars that there is jetting for 0 - 5000 feet, and jetting for above 5000 feet. So I am inclined to agree. But maybe it is a bit more critical for us to get it better dialed in, since we are dealing with such low HP numbers here.

I thought I had melted my ground wire so I replaced my wiring harness. It turns out it was a faulty starter (which I fixed), but while I was at it, I got a new set of led sequential turn signals. I just tried the in the back. Maybe I will save the other two for now. Just under $20 from amazon. Sweet!

Sequential led turn signals!

I also replaced the battery with an 80 CCA bigger battery. It barely fit, but much more power!

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Adding on to Thumper's excellent post.


I have ordered all the tools to grind off the blind break off bolts.


Of course waiting for the my wife to get back with the car so I can go get some replacement M4-.7x16mm socket head bolts to put in after they are out I decided to give it a go with my old fashioned way to pass the time.


What a success that was!


I used my hacksaw and cut a slot deep into the first break off bolt. Using thumb and finger to align the blade and just kept draging it non cutting across the top until I had the smallest of purchases, then a tiny push forward and it slowly opened a the beginning of the slot. I then cut down deep.


I had a kit of screw ends, typical phillips, torx and flat head for some tool but never used them. They gave me three different sizes of flats.


Without the tool I just grabbed a small adjustable wrench and sized it to fit the hex shank. I then inserte the smallest into the slot as the others wouldn't fit all the way down.


Pushing the bit down with my thumb and weight I very slowly turned the adjustable wrench. I felt the bolt melt smooshing ever so slightly and as I kept the pressure on and watching I saw movement. I kept moving it slowly and the pressure slowly smooshed the metal more.



Once the metal was opened slightly I moved up to the next sized flat blade bit and continued. I ended up going through all three sizes and finally the bolt was out! -- happy dance! :yay:


Attachment 27835


Now for the second.


Repeating the hacksaw start on this one but it slipped. I repositioned and tried again. Slip. Slowed down and tried again and got a bite. When I removed the hacksaw to inspect the beginning of the slot. Dismay! -- I cut it offset from center ever so slightly. I just made my job that much harder.


I cut the slot down deep and then repeated the process of smallest flat blade and going up as the metal smooshed. The bolt did not move on the smallest blade, only smooshed. Oh no!


I moved up to the second blade and it started smooshing and I thought I was finished and had to wait until the tools arrive on Saturday to grind it off. But it suddenly moved a millimeter. I could tell from the force needed this wasn't going to end well.


But I managed to get it to move 90 degrees before it accelerated on the smooshing and stopping on the moving the bolt. I took this time to cut a second hacksaw slot in ala Phillips style. It was worth a gamble. At the rate of smooshing and little movement I was at failure point with the first slot.


I took a small lightweight hammer and tapped a regular sized flat blade screwdriver into the first slot to open up the center of the slot to allow a bigger blade.


I then worked the new slot with the smallest flat blade bit and worked up. More smooshing, more work than the first bolt due to off center slot but I got it to move a little more out.


The rest was lightweight hammer and regular sized flat blade to open the center on the second slot then very slow turn with pressure down and as it smooshed switch slots and tap down and repeat, as that smooshed switch slots and tap down to open up.


Finally I have success!


Photos to see the bolt that gave the grief. Now I am off to the hardware store for new replacement bolts. :hi:


Attachment 27836


and detail of the top of the bolt after smooshings after both cuts


Attachment 27837

Nice job! Ill be doing that too soon enough.

Excellent work Pete! Those things are well stuck with some kind of badass locktite aren't they!

The grinding approach is a backup. I'm glad you didn't have to resort to that

A note on jetting. I started the bike yesterday in freezing weather. It barely needed a momentary choke. Stalled, and then it started without choke, bone cold. I think I am a bit rich on the pilot jet.

The other think it did was it started to drift up to a high idle. I am pretty sure this same behavior happened to someone else recently. I thought maybe it was leaning out from a intake spigot leak (the rubber connector between the carb and head). But this really makes no sense since it didn't even need choke to start at 32 degrees cold!

I put the bike back under the tarp. Too cold to ride. This doesn't affect performance, but I would sure like to know what is causing this :hmm:

Mine would idle high sometimes, as well-and occasionally stall. I didn't ride mine for about 4 days last week, and I pulled it out of the garage. It started, died, and wouldn't start again. I've only run non-eth in it, so I know it didn't clog up with corn syrup. :D Checked fuel filter and flow, checked for spark-good. New NGK plug for a laugh. Nothing. So I did what all real men do, and pulled the boot...and blasted it with starting fluid. Started, ran out of laughing gas, and died. I could likely figure this carb out, but I don't have the patience right now. I'm in the middle of a street tracker build, so I'm looking for my other bikes to be runners. I ordered a Nibbi PE28 for it, and I'll give it a shot. If that fails, I'll get a real PE28. They're really not expensive, and I know they work. Some of the Chinese carbs are a real crapshoot.
I used to commute on a 2012 CCW Misfit. It was 5 years old with 9k miles when I bought it. Aside from a clogged emission mess once, it was dead reliable. I fixed all of that,and cleaned/rebuilt/rejetted the carb. It ran great. I sold it to a friend of my wife who's my age three years ago (I'm 52 now) who always wanted to learn how to ride. I clean the carb for her at the beginning of every spring, because she doesn't understand that "premium" doesn't mean non-eth. Literally emptied syrup out of it this year. Carb cleaner, compressed air...BOOM! Runs great. Carb looks like absolute cheap trash, but the bike always runs fantastic (when clean!!)
Might buy the bike back just for the carb. :D

Ohhh...but I really like the bike. It's fun, torquey enough, handles pretty well, suspension's OK, competent. I also have a Kayo 230. The Kayo is fun, kind of a "poor man's KTM Freeride" with a dogbaby of an engine. It's small, so it's easy to throw around, and it's a climber. Forks are decent, rear shock is way soft for my fat arse. The X dogwalks it, though-and it's plated. The Kayo is going away. Only rode it once, bought it with @ an hour on it from a rapper. :D

I put the oem jets back in the carburetor when I reinstalled mine so I could experience first hand what the jetting is like out of the box since no two carbs on identical bikes will be exactly the same.

I made the first run video faster changing out the shipping oil for Rotella T4 so you can hear what the default carburetor is like.

https://youtu.be/dhAYEKH-jFQ

I then spent a good seven to ten minutes going through 5k rpm on the digital dash and below varying up and down. Tossed in a few fistful of full throttles. And here’s what the running conditions were. Temperature: 3.8C / 39F, Elevation: 182m / 597feet. On some acceleration runs bogging. One full fist of throttle single bog and quit. On some deaccelerations popping. I found the idle screw and adjusted idle RPM. I didn’t find the pilot screw yet or know if this carb puts it on the air intake side or on the fuel side but I will need to find that next.

The engine has the potential for making more torque and hp. If I can find the time this Winter, I will work on the head. I got a bit set for the Dremel to do the porting. It has been sitting there for 6 months!

I have also been looking for a compatible headpipe with a resonator (and no cat). They make them for the CG clones (ZS167FMM). I don't think these will fit the ZS172 clones.

Megadan and many others have install 4 degree (or other) timing advance key as well. KTM and Husqvarna engines are already significantly advanced, and lower advance keys are available for them (1 degree, 1.5 degree, etc). I have a timing light somewhere. I'd like to shoot the timing on the Temp X and find out what the OEM advance is. I had installed a dyna2000 on my first gen bandit so I could select advance settings. This kind of setup would be much easier than changing timing keys to explore the effect of advancing timing. I would like to use timing advance, but no more than needed to get a boost in power to complement the porting/exhaust mods. A new carb might make sense at some point as well, but the OEM smoothbore Youall has been adequate for the unmodified engine.

Finally, you can buy the 5speed and 6speed versions of this ZS172 for about $500. Maybe the best approach is to swap in a new stock engine and get it working, then begin all of the modification on the partially broken in, proven good engine I got with the bike. Or just modify the virgin new engine. Not sure which approach would be best.

If I recall, Megadan used the method of order a new head and work on porting that. Once you have success just unbolt the old and swap in the new. Lower risk that way.

I have considered that (just buy the head). But the difference between the price of an OHC head and the compete engine is just a few hundred. And you get all of the parts and a CDI unit with a complete new engine. Think about it... a spare transmission, clutch, stator/rotor, cylinder/piston/rings, all new seals/bearings, sprocket, and its a working replacement unit.

So you can plod along building a complete engine while enjoying a working motorcycle:clap:

Thats definitely a better deal with a full set of current parts to use as spares when doing any engine rebuilding or repair.

I like the ZS172FMM-3A (5-speed) for it's simplicity, and for a dedicated offroad bike, it's adequate. But the 6-speed version with counterbalancing is also available for about the same cost. Amazon has at least one source for the 5-speed, and ebay has a few sources including the 6-speed.

I can hear the counterbalancer linkage in the 6-speed (not loud, but audible). I am sure it is normal. That extra gear is useful, and the counterbalancing is nice for road use, but the 5speed might be a better choice for an offroad build. The choice is not that easy for me :hmm:

As you can tell by the triangular right case shape, and the absence of a kick starter, this is the 6speed. It even comes with a gear shift and a starter. The real benefit of paying the additional ~$450 (more than the cost of a head) is that you can do a complete bench build and swap it in when you are ready. And the head in the complete engine includes the cam/rockers/camchain sprocket/camchain...

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