Hawk vs Templar X
 

Looking to add a something like a Hawk or Templar X to the stable. Currently have a KLR650 and a CR500r. The new bike will need to serve 3 missions.

Mission 1 - Tag along with younger nephew as he learns to ride his XR100. Hawk seems fine for that, I'll call it wheels on the ground riding where I'd mostly be putting along. I'd be the rider in this case.

Mission 2 - Bike for an older nephew to ride to build up his riding skills. Combination of gravel and dirt roads with some trail riding mixed in. Some rural backcountry paved roads where going 55 or 60 for 5 miles now and then would be needed. My nephew would probably like to get the wheels off the ground so Templar X would be better for that but Hawk would seem to cover the other aspects fine. Nephew would be the rider and I'd ride the CR or KLR depending on the ride.

Mission 3 - Dual sport bike for my dirt riding buddy so we could check out some new DS rides. These may be 30 to 50 miles rides on backcounty gravel or dirt roads. Buddy would be the rider and I'd bring the KLR.

I like the Hawk because of the wealth of knowledge and parts available for that bike. It seems like every bolt, wire and hose is known on that bike. Plus there seems to be parts for everything available. The seat looks wider so I am assuming it can be made more comfortable by replacing the foam with something better. Hawk should be a slam dunk to license in Washington State.

The Templar X seems to be a much higher quality bike but I am not seeing where parts are available like plastics or say a headlight assembly. Mission 2 will be my older nephew riding so I am expecting some crashes that will require some replacement parts. The seat doesn't look so comfy for the longer DS rides or for me putting around with my younger nephew. Licensing could be a headache unless MCO says motorcycle.

At the moment I'm leaning towards the Hawk because of parts, licensing and seat comfort(once restuffed). Can someone chime in on the Templar X regarding parts, the seat comfort and if the recent bikes have shipped with Motorcycle on the MCO?

Either bike would be OK, but you may also consider Bashan model like the Recon, Storm or Brozz. These are more like the Hawk, but add inverted front forks. Bashan Storm also adds a good luggage rack.

The seat on the Templar is more comfortable than you might think. But it is a very tall bike at 36" seat height. I think it would be pretty easy to lower, but you may not want to work on it. The Templar is a whole lot of bike for the money, but it is a full size enduro. Templar also has a more powerful engine (19hp ZS172FMM). The M has a 5-speed version of this engine, and the X has the counterbalanced 6-speed version of this engine.

The hawk, and all of the Bashan bikes have the 14 horsepower Zongshen ZS167FMM.

All the Templars are street legal. Occasionally, you might have to ask for a corrected MCO. Powersports Max has done this for a few people that got a MCO with dirt bike written on it. Powersports Max has been good about this.

Thumper, you seem to be the resident pro on the X. Thanks for the response. Do you have the scoop on parts? I am expecting tank or side plastic to get wasted. Front fender too but that can be a universal fender replacement. Or something a bit worse like dumping the bike on it's side into a rock and breaking the rear brake pedal hydraulic piston. My KLR has a guard to help prevent that. Parts concern me about the X.

With your X, if you were mostly sitting on a dual sport ride(gravel roads) could you make it comfortably for a few hours of riding with breaks(lunch stop and we were here pics)? In your opinion is the seat wide enough to be comfortable? Whatever bike I go for I figure I can always play with the foam but the seat pan has to have enough width to make it comfortable.

Height is okay on any of them and correct I don't want to do much work on the bike. I've been trying to figure out the other flavors of the Hawk like you listed to see the best package. I'd prefer a carburetor bike for simplicity. Trying to keep the price down since it's bike #3 which has led me to the Hawk or X. X does seem like a lot of bike for the $$$. Good to hear about the "motorcycle" status on the MCO of the X. In Washington state you can get a plate on a dirt bike but you have to put DOT stuff on it to pass a $100 inspection. That's how I got a plate on my CR but for this bike I want to avoid that process. It's encouraging to hear your points about the getting "Motorcycle" on the MCO.

Also I would probably only keep this bike for a season or two.

My own opinion about the Hawk vs. Brozz and the whole inverted forks things. I find them over rated. Functionally the only real advantage they have is rigidity. Something easily offset with a cheap fork brace.

I do like the Brozz though just for the improved overall quality of Bashan bikes out of the box. My one caveat to picking the Brozz - make sure it is a 2022 Recon. They now come with 21" front and 18" rear wheels. Don't get the 19/17 wheel combo as it greatly limits tire selection.

The Brozz and Hawk also come with 15hp. Don't cheat them out of that 1 hp lol. They are also fairly choked off and not too hard to bump the power up to around 17hp without major engine work. Their strength isn't hp though but torque. For a small air cooled 1cyl they chug along pretty good.

The Engine on the Hawk is not Zongshen made btw. Not sure about the Brozz. AFAIK the only true Zongshen made engine sold on a Hawk-like bike in the US is the CSC TT250 which is a Zongshen produced bike. The Hawk comes with a generic 167FMM (No ZS markings).

No matter what Hawk-like bike you would pick it is important to understand that these bikes are not dirt bikes. They are utilitarian bikes meant to fill the role of unpaved roads and dual track mixed with romps on pavement. They have a full frame with big seats to carry people and cargo. They don't have the suspension travel of a proper dirt bike - aka not really meant for people with MX dreams.

The Tank shrouds and side plate/rear fender are copies of the 2007 RMZ250, so easy to come by in yellow, or black

I forgot about the full sized wheels on the Recon. But you can find knobbies including DOT approved knobbies in the 19"/17" sizes.
I do like the out of the box stiffness of the inverted forks (Bashan models and the Templars). Templar M is an outstanding value, but it doesn't come with a luggage rack. If this is no problem, this bike comes with the 5 speed ZS172FMM. It is a really nice engine.

MegaDan has a thread describing a front fork upgrade for the Hawk that makes them perform well with mild bumps, then engages a smaller port with harder bumps that controls dive better and improves damping and rebound.

Powersportsmax has lots of parts for the Templars in stock, and they can order most other parts from Zuumav supplier. I haven't needed much, but they got me a front wheel and a starter both under warranty, no questions asked (they just wanted photos showing issues).

Templar X is well equipped upon arrival and it is all DOT approved, street legal...and it gets the 19hp engine, 6 speed, grippy light/tough bear claw footpegs, folding short shifter, nice luggage rack with mounts for side racks coming soon, fully adjustable suspension (separate compression and rebound settings on both ends, plus preload rear spring adjustment), adjustable brake and clutch levers, full sized wheels with decent tires mounted, rim locks, and an amazingly stiff and tough enduro scaled frame that still comes in at under 270lbs ($10k - 15k KTM Husq, etc come in at about 260lbs). That is an accomplishment! On the seat... I have never been uncomfortable on the seat, but my rides are 2 hours max. There is more foam under there than it appears. I am about 190lbs, and I fit well on the bike. At 5'10", it feels like a cadillac once I am rolling. I won't ever push it beyond it's limits, even though I am pretty aggressive. I just wish my should would allow me to jump higher. It is the landings that threaten my shoulder!

These are all crate bikes, and you have to put them together. You will have to rejet, presumably, but the rest is adjusting and positioning controls to suit your preferences.

I'd go with the Templar X because it's a true 250 (249.9cc) and also the 6 speed gearbox which will be of GREAT value on paved roads.

Following suit, and owning both a Brozz (with 21/18) and the Templar X, i also vote for the Templar X, so much fun, great power (more than the modded Brozz), 6th gear to get you to 70mph (with a 42T Rear sprocket) and adjustable front and rear suspension and beefy frame/headset/bars/swingarm.

Hawk, because of the seat and fuel capacity.

If one of these companies wanted a real winner they would offer something equivalent to the KPX250 for Brozz level prices.

Basically if the Brozz had a carbed version of the 172 engine for about the same price it currently sells for I don't think they would keep it in stock.

I love Lifan, they have some really good bikes but they don't have the KPX250 at Brozz level prices so I went through my list of wants and sorted out what I could live without. EFI dropped off my list and Templar X 250 it became. Once you get into the 3k range I would rather go Royal Enfield with their state of the art factory putting out the cleanest engines, cleaner inside than Japanese motors and of course every bike they sell having a 3 year warranty and 3 years of road side assistance if you break down both of which can transfer to the next buyer of your bike if the 3 years has not expired yet.

I think of the Hawk as a wheels on the ground bike, meaning it's best to ride it in such a way that the wheels stay on the ground. I am sure the suspension and bike in general are way to soft too handle any jumping or ripping across the tops of whoops. I am not targeting any riding needing this bike to leave the ground, however my older nephew would probably like to get airborne. I actually see the conventional forks as reducing plastic that can get banged up on USD forks so one less thing for me to deal with.

Definitely only doing a 21/18 wheeled biked.

Huck, I saw this somewhere too that 07 RMZ plastic would fit but I never saw that someone actually did it and made it happen. Do you know of someone that actually tried it? Or have you seen in documented with pictures? From looking at pictures it looks like RMZ plastic would fit but looks can be deceiving. It would be awesome if this is the case.

Thanks for chiming in, which seat do you like for longer rides?

For longer DS rides I'd be on the KLR and someone else will be on the Hawk or X. The KLR carries 6 gallons of fuel so it can act as a tanker for either bike. The seat though is definitely something I am wondering about.

The X just seems like a great value for what you get and that's why it bubbled up to the top of my list. Encouraging to hear you've had good luck getting parts and the MCO may come as Motorcycle or can be updated to Motorcycle. I'd like to catch a black friday special on which ever bike and get it plated before the rules change on me in Washington State.

One thing I am fuzzy on with either bike is if they have U.S. Forest Service spark approved arrestors. Some riding will be on farmland so spark arrestors are a must. What's the scoop on that?

No, I don't know of anyone that has done this, but I've been contemplating ordering a set of yellow for mine, if I do, I will post results....I have an AJP Dirt bike, and its rear fenders and side plate come from a 85 KTM SX, and I have bought and used the KTM parts on it.........

the Fuel Tank is definitely different than the Suzuki, but the frame is a KTM knock off, so might be able to use an aftermarket KTM tank

I ordered a set of 07-09 RMZ 250 graphics from Kalair-gfx. I got their thinnest option so I could make sure they would match the Templar X plastic. And it does. About to order a custom set of the thick ones for my Templar X. That still doesn’t mean the Suzuki plastics will fit the Templar X. If I had to bet on it. I would say that they would. The bolt holes are in the same place. Looks like the Templar X gas tank was molded to fit the Suzuki plastic. But again. I haven’t actually tried to fit any OEM Suzuki plastic to the Templar X yet. I hope this helps. I will certainly update this thread if I learn more.

Very promising point on the graphics lining up. Thanks for chiming in with that bit of info.

Aftermarket spark arrestors are available. They slip into the tip of the muffler and you can drill/rivet or set with a screw. Amazon has the Yoshimura TEC-SB-B for $30 that looks like it will fit, but they show no dimensions. Templar's exhaust pipe has a fairly narrow tip diameter. You may have to replace the cannister to install a spark arrestor, depending on what you end up getting.

But you know, these bikes do have a catalytic converter in the headpipe region. I think that would provide pretty effective spark arrestor function.

If that's true, then you could remove the cannister and stamp "spark arrestor" on the tip ;)

The stock exhausts on the Hawk-like bikes all have a spark arrestor end baffle built in. Not sure about the Templar.

I should have also asked if there a stamp on the outside of the muffler indicating a US Forest Service Approved Spark Arrestor, some of the Off Road Vehicle parks in my area require that. One park has a big sign at the entrance that lists off the requirements to ride and penalties for breaking the rules. It would be pretty tough to say you didn't know it was required. If no stamp I would probably need to investigate an aftermarket pipe for either bike or an insert like Thumper suggested. I'd need something where I can show proof it is legit. That's said the Hawk looks very much like a factory dual-sport so it wouldn't draw the same attention as someone on a beat to crap YZ125.

Here is what I wonder about the Templar. The company name is Zuumav? That sounds Russian to me. I mean, I am not an expert but that sounds Russian. So if that is true and the bikes were labeled and marketed for the Russian rider, does their sudden arrival in the states with features almost too good to be true have anything to do with the war? The parts issue is what scared me off I think. Not the engine parts, but other things. And to be honest at the end of the day, what I know about the war and that name Zuumav makes me wary. Eh well, just some food for thought. Correct me if I am mistaken about my thinking here.

https://zuumav.en.alibaba.com/compan...145f7de0tzcOJ6

Okay well that clearly shows their main market for them and that is interesting. They have some really nice looking machines but the company is only 5 years old. How can we be sure it wasn't founded by Reptilians?

What's a reptilian? Chinese have been cloning technology since the 60s, or before. Patent thief? Is that a reptilian?

Wuyi Zuma is one. Kamax is another. I am looking into ordering a Kamax 250 2 stroke or 450 4 stroke. They use the same suspension and brakes used on GPX bikes. KTM clones. But like other Chinese companies, they are learning things on their own and growing. The quality of the engineering is good now. No, not exotic alloys and high end QC parts like you find on Husqvarna or the other top competitors, but those brands are for racing/competition.

it was a stupid joke from a dude who clearly watches too many alien conspiracy documentaries. heheheh

See sig :hehe:
Also just got a Halcyon Green Classic 350 for my dad.

Mission accomplished but with a different bike. I came close to pulling the trigger on a Hawk but found a 97 DR350S for about the price of a carb'd Hawk that was in good shape. It has a good slow putt-putt speed so I can tag along with my little nephew on his XR100 and has been good for my other older nephew that is learning to ride. It's also a bike that puts a smile on my face, it's easy to ride and has some pep.

Although the Templar X would be the most fun bike for me I chickened out with the newness of the bike and would have gone with the Hawk. There is value in the Hawk for me with easy access to aftermarket parts and every nut and bolt is known on that bike.

For me the point is to be out riding however regardless of bike there is a maintenance/tinker factor. I've been keeping track of maintenance on the DR versus my thoughts on a new Hawk. I think overall the DR has probably netted out to less work. On the DR I've check valves, swapped batteries, changed tires, shimmed the carb and have fluids to change. On the Hawk I would have had assembly, valves, carb and fluids. Also I was able to see and ride the DR before the purchase where as the Hawk has the damage during shipping hassle factor that may occur.

Still may end up with a Hawk though, the older nephew has a younger brother that likes the idea of riding. We'll see where that goes, glad to see the price of Hawks have dropped a bit. Maybe I can stumble onto a cheap used Hawk.

Just pulled the trigger on a carbureted Hawk from Powersportsmax with the black Friday pricing of $1,550. Getting another great nephew into riding and decided to try the Hawk vs going after a used Japanese bike. Used deals on Japanese bikes are tough to find and there is a lot of overpriced junk out there. The Hawk should get the job done, fingers crossed shipping goes well. Still was a bit chicken on the Templar X and with two great nephews riding the Hawk was the clear winner for the budget.