Losing My Sense of Humor...and oil.
 

Before I purchased the RX3, I read that you had to have a sense of humor to buy a China bike.

I think I may be losing mine.

On one of my 100 mile loops, coming out of the Green Swamp area of west central FL, the RX3 started losing power, and within 5 to 10 seconds, the engine stopped running completely,

I quickly pulled in the clutch lever, and fortunately coasted into a church parking lot.

When I came to a stop and looked down, my pant leg was covered with oil...and so was the RX3....engine, frame, swingarm, rear tire...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...psyfxi2woc.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...psbkerw1yy.jpg

I suppose it could have been worse. Twenty minutes earlier I was in the wilderness, with intermittent cell phone coverage.

Three hours after I called the wife, she shows up with the trailer, we load the bike, and head home.

At home, I found the problem...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps90hcsbbk.jpg

I am pretty sure the piston has seized....parked the bike in the garage to deal with another day.

jb

Did the bolt snap off or just come loose?

Not much fun having the oil all pour out of the top. Hopefully it's not seized, I would think it would run a little longer without oil before that happens, not great for the internals for sure.

Isn't this your second engine?

That sucks jb.... Hope it's only a new bolt and some more oil and back on the road.....

any warranty to cover this?

the RX3 is better quality than the average CB (at least I'm assuming that based on the effort/price they put into it). seems like these type of things wouldn't be so common. :hmm:

Bolt and rectangular o-ring missing.

Original engine, but with replaced camshaft and associated parts.

jb

No warranty, I'm pretty sure.

I have had the RX3 longer than one year, so it would be parts only anyway.

And the missing bolt would be deemed my fault, as was the damaged cam, which was repaired by CSC under their "good will" policy :tup: not the warranty.

jb

that sucks. fingers crossed the motor is ok!

Right after this happened, I tapped the starter switch and only got a "clunk"...don't think the crankshaft turned.

Will probably take a closer look later today...been riding the Triumph....searching for my "sense of humor". ;)

jb

Bummer jbfla, my heart really goes out to you and hope you stopped it in the nick of time before much damage happened. rj

Sorry to see and hear about this. I really hope it's an easy cost effective fix.

Well, the "good" news is that it's a "China Bike". That means low cost parts. I've saved you the trouble, since you're probably not feeling like doing it yourself right now, of looking up the parts for repair:

Camshaft: 39.95
Cylinder Head Assembly: 179.95
Cylinder Block: 179.95
Cylinder Block Gasket: 5.95
Piston: 39.95
Piston Pin: 4.26
Piston Rings: 13.95
Oil Pumps: 22.90
Crank/connecting Rod Assembly: 140.00
Valve Cover Gasket: 0.79
Valve Cover Bolt: 0.2

Total: 627.85

This is probably on the high side, since the cam and cylinder head are most likely OK. The piston and cylinder, however, are definitely toasted if the engine seized as you described. A few other parts may or may not be needed, based on your tear down inspection (timing chain, timing sprockets).

Hopefully, you can find the energy to get it going again. It's too nice of a bike not to. Good luck.

Ugh - that sucks. Sorry to see and read about it, JBFL.

Hopefully after things cool down, and some more oil, the bike will fire right up. But if it's seized, Working_Zs if right, just change the cylinder block, piston, and piston rings and give it a try again. Hopefully it'll fire right back up.

Was this through Taobao or CSC?

How? How does a tightened cover bolt just back out. Did you forget to tighten after checking valves? I am not saying this to belittle you. Just trying to understand what happened jb. This just sucks. You have enjoyed the hell out of this bike and have poured on the miles. It seem hard to believe that It froze in that short of time but it may have been long enough on the hot engine. Yes it is froze now because currently there is no oil. I think it will run but may have dinged the rings. Refill and manually Spin it over with the socket and you will feel if damaged pretty quick I would think. CRAP

Another question. Does the injection, etc...shut down automatically when oil pressure gets too low to save itself? This is not uncommon....but I really can't imagine that you ran an entire quart out or more out onto your pantleg. That would have been a massive mess that would have covered you, the bike and the road behind you. It will be interesting to see how much oil is left in the motor.

The prices are via CSC's website. I forgot to add in shipping, so add on another $100.00 to the grand total to be safe.

Thanks for the effort, ZS.

I did look up the price of a new engine: $2,480. US plus $115 shipping.

It's not worth it to put $2,600 into what would be a $2,600 used bike.

Maybe someone would like to buy a parts bike.

Hopefully it won't come to that.

jb

I took a closer look today.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...psf8s2om5j.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...psvam3b3aw.jpg


You wouldn't think that you would lose that much oil from an open valve cover.


This is what came out when I drained the crankcase:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...psksaiweet.jpg


The oil filters had only a few specs of silver and the magnetic drain plug none....maybe I'll be lucky:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...pskuf9sktl.jpg


I replaced the filters and drain plug, and filled the crankcase with new oil.

Then removed the spark plug and squirted motor oil into the spark plug hole, and tried turning the engine over by hand.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...pswmdea3ys.jpg

It turned over....:tup:

Then decided to check the valve clearances:

Intakes were at .005" and .008" Reset them to .003"

The exhaust valve clearances were both at .003+" ...not as much drag on the feeler gauge as I would like but left them alone.

When I went to reinstall the valve covers, I found a clue as to what may have happened.

One of the bolts on the front valve cover had slivers of aluminum in the thread.

And when I tried to screw it back in place, found that the threads in the cylinder head hole where stripped...>:(

Then retrieved another M6x20 bolt to replace the missing bolt for the rear cover only to find that hole also had stripped threads.

The threaded holes were not stripped when I checked the valves 500 miles ago. :hmm:

Those slivers of aluminum on the valve cover bolt brought "galling" to mind.

galling

I hadn't encountered this in years, but basically what happens is that under pressure, the aluminum threads in the cylinder head bond to the steel threads of the bolt.

When the bolt is removed the aluminum comes along, and the hole is stripped.

This is only speculation as to what happened.

Regardless, I now have two holes to fix before I can refasten the valve covers.

Retap with a larger bolt? Heli-coil? Time-sert?

That's for another day.

jb

Thus the valve cover Jammed the rocker arm causing the seize when you tried to turn it over with the electric starter.

This is looking better but still a bummer. Hope the thread issues works out. This stuff can be tricky. Make sure you hold your mouth just right and pray.

When you get it fired, stick that long screwdriver head in your ear and start probing around.

I think its gona be alright, i know the mechanic and he's good.

Mabey you could convert it to those high quality/strength stud bolts if you have room to lift the cover free of the studs. . Then those studs would not have to be budged again.Just a thought :shrug:not sure

LOL... really!

It would be a mungle of a thing to start.... crank on the starter till oil
pressure is high enough...

And imagine after a oil/filter change when everything is empty...
that would be a 2 battrey job...



..

JB,

Great that the motor turns freely! Hopefully no cylinder wall scoring or ring damage. But likely it'll be just fine, especially since you saw no metal in the oil.

While it might be tempting to just retap the threads for a larger bolt, I think that if you're correct about the galling, then I'd opt for the Helicoil or Time-sert. Those are permanent solutions and you'll never run into the galling issue again.

As for the striped 6mm threads..
just retap them with 1/4" unc...
no drilling just run the tap into the
striped 6mm hole...
It really is that simple...




...

All are valid repair methods. It really depends on what you have at hand. If you happen to have some Helicoils that fit, use those. Same for the Time-Serts. Neither is going to be better than the other here. We're talking around 5-10 ft/lbs of torque max for a M6x1.0 bolt, depending upon grade, in this application. Cost-wise, Time-Sert kits will set you back more than the Helicoil kits. Pete's suggestion of tapping to 1/4" UNC would work as well, but then you're left with two bastard bolts in the engine. I usually try to avoid a situation like that. Keep it metric or american, not a mix.

BlackBike's suggestion to install studs is interesting. It would solve any future thread galling in the existing, un-stripped holes for sure, but I'm uncertain about clearance on the exhaust side of the engine to remove the valve cover. I would probably stay with bolts if it were my bike and I planned on selling it in the near future.

Yes, really. Many fuel injected vehicles have safeguards in place so they don't grenade themselves. Both oil pressure and voltage.

Honda generator/compressor/lawnmower engines do as well...

I was think this too, also don't outboard engines have this? Just depends on how electronically complex.

He said it started losing power, is there a oil pressure sensor on this rx3? Wouldn't be surprised, then when it goes out of spec, software excuses "limp mode" this is common strategy in auto's

Katflap... oil sensor?

Hmm, let me see..........

Attachment 8414


Nope, sorry , no oil sensor on the RX3 :ohno:

JB, really sorry to hear this has happened. As a Harley owner, I know a thing or two about screws randomly missing. I can't begin to tell you. I just got in the habit of inspecting them all before I ride. It's a bit time consuming, but when you have lost as many as I have it's worth the time.

My husband said the same thing as Pete, btw. Once you give yourself the time to get back to it.

On another note, we'll be in West Palm Beach for month in March. Are you near there?

thanks, i have been having issues with the site . can't get it to update correctly and spotty log on.

cool cat, black and whites have the best temperament in my opinion.

I'm on the other side of the state, about 25 miles east of Tampa.

March 10-19 is Daytona Bike Week if you like crowds.

I usually make a day trip to see the manufacturer displays of the new bike models.

jb

I do a pre-ride inspection also.

I had stopped for lunch an hour before the engine died.

While putting on my gear...jacket, ear plugs, helmet, and gloves... I did a walk-a-round, and there was no evidence of an oil leak.

jb

The valve adjuster bolt did hit the jammed valve cover.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps7g89bkkk.jpg

jb

I've been pondering what happened.

The simplest explanation is that I didn't tighten the bolts enough, and they vibrated loose.

I could take responsibility for that except for the stripped threads in the hole where the missing bolt was, and the "galling" on the bolt on the exhaust valve cover, which resulted in another stripped hole.

I know the threads were not stripped only 500 miles earlier. I wouldn't have been able to fasten the cover, and would not have ridden the bike.

In addition, "galling" is usually caused by over-tightening the bolt in soft metals, as in soft aluminum and soft steel.

As for the fix...

I'm leaning toward using Time-serts. It's probably the most expensive option, but I will be able to use the stock bolts.

Though I am concerned that I may not be able to get clear access to the holes, especially on the exhaust side, with a power drill, and a tap.

Gerry, at CSC, is not sure, but thinks I may have to remove the engine to do the job properly.

If that is the case, I am not sure I even want to try...might just glue the bolts in the stripped holes, and wait until I can trailer the bike to my shop in NC this spring.

Currently the bike is parked. The weather here is so nice, sunny and mid 70'sF, that I don't want to spend it in the garage...been riding the other bike every day.

jb

:hmm: searching...time-serts

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...psdoi6foa5.jpg

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It's a steel threaded insert that is a permanent repair that uses the original size bolt.

It is expensive. A "one size" kit is about $75 US.

And you have to supply your own tap handle.

***The tap in the photo is a custom size, to fit the oversize threads of the insert.***

jb

So you drill out your hole .22mm larger with their bit then back in with the insert. I see said the blind man.

:tup::tup: :tup: :tup:

JBFLA, that looks very similar to a Heli-Coil. We used them all the time in the service. I have had, on rare occasion, a heli-coil jump the threads when putting it in, or when backing out the replacement bolt. Not very often, just often enough to a) be annoying as all hell, and b) bear mentioning to the rest of the world. Back to the repairs, though: You would be amazed at how many airplanes fly out with repairs just bodged together. I actually sent an airplane out with a duct-tape fix once... :ohno: What a world we live in. The damage to your valve cover doesn't look too bad, maybe a few minutes with a swiss pattern file will clean up the rough edges. The groove for the O-ring looks like it's in pretty good shape so it should seal no problem. As for removing the engine, I think that would absolutely be the way to go. I was in Tampa a few weeks ago so I know what you're talking about with the WX down there. Blue skies and perfect riding temps. Hope you get it fixed soon, or at least patched back together enough to enjoy one or two more rides before you dig into a permanent repair.