What oil?
 

I finally put on my big boy pants and changed the oil on my bike. The old oil was very dirty but both strainers were clear and there was only the faintest trace of metal on the magnetic plug, so thats all good.

I decided to go with what I know and replaced the oil with Motul 15W 40 full synthetic.

As you all probably know the whole job took about 15 minutes and was ridiculously easy.

The difference in the way the engine is running is unexpected. It has gone very quiet, it is idling more slowly, but smoothly and the clutch has transformed into a thing of joy. Smooth, progressive engagement and easy to find neutral. I can now get the clutch to slip while doing slow manoeuvring and pull-aways are so much better.

Has anyone else noticed a change with different oils?

I'm jealous just because of the easy neutrals. All three of my Zongs hate neutral after they get hot. I may have to try the Motul.

Adjust your clutches instead. If you can't find neutral, especially when stopped, then there is too much drag on the clutch plates.

My RX3 and TT250 both were difficult to get into neutral at a complete stop. They each needed to be adjusted, and it needed to be down at the lever on the engine, not at the handle bar lever, which is more for lever free play. Both now easily slip into neutral when the bikes are stopped.

The initial set up from CSC is good enough to get them out the door, but they definitely need to be readjusted after the initial break-in.

seems right to me on the clutch adjustment i never had a problem finding neutral at all an still could stand a bit more adjusting will do ? to citroanjunkie is what oil was in the bike ,first change should be before ,you ever run the bike ,i also hear that full 100% synthetic should be used till after 500 miles or full break in ,too allow the internals to seat properley,i used 10w40 mortcycle oil sf,though most guys use rottela 15w40 with more zinc i may try at some point myself i would use either one ,plus i am sure many guys use just regular 10w40 too an 20w50 in heat

my problem is finding 5th gear ,i guess couse i am so used to a bike with 50+ hp ,an the low gearing 5th feels like 3rd ,but will work to get all that the hawk can give ,soon this heat up in the NE is terrible

Any oil with a picture of a motorcycle or 4-wheeler will work. Some work better than others.

There are really only two kinds of oil. First is dino oil, a petroleum product. This includes things like Rotella, which is really a very high quality dino product, not at all a true synthetic. The 2nd type of oil is the true synthetics like Lucas, Royal Purple, and the old Mobil 1.

CSC recommends 5w-40 or 10w-40. Anything w-50 is overkill.

Start off with fresh dino oil for motorcycles in 5w-40 or 10w40. Dino oil allows a much faster break-in. Very cheap at most big box stores like Walmart. I do an oil change as soon as the bike is assembled, before even starting it up the first time. Patiently allow the filters to drain and reuse them.

Next oil change is a couple hundred miles later, same dino oil. Clean the filters with DeepCreep, let the DeepCreep evaporate. Change and clean filters again at 500 miles.

Finally, at 1000 miles, use the same change and clean procedure and use a top line dino oil like Rotella or a genuine synthetic oil like Lucas, Royal Purple, or the old type Mobil 1. 10w-40 will do.

DO NOT just use any oil. Most oils in 1st world countries I've been to are very specialized and becoming more so. Many newer cars require oils with friction modifiers so the emissions laws can be met. Dump one in your motorcycle and you will be buying a new clutch. Many new cars require little or no additives to prevent impact wear--rollers and bearings instead of flat metal contact surfaces with a thin layer of oil to avoid contact. Dump one in your motorcycle and order a new transmission.

There are about 12 different Rotellas. Which is right for a motorcycle? (None. All Rotellas are designed for diesels in commercial trucks, farm and construction equipment, and/or stationary engines.) There are close to 30 different Mobil 1s. Which is right for a motorcycle? (The 2 with pictures of motorcycles on the containers.)

I'd rather pay $10 more for the right oil than cheap out on my motorcycle, which is so much better than a woman. Simple facts are I know dozens of people who have used the wrong oil and wasted engines in all sorts of machines, from lawn mowers to cars, trucks, busses, semis, boats, airplanes, even motorcycles. Many didn't even change brand. Use the right oil or risk the consequences.

My dad always said oil is cheaper than engines.

I'm surprised no-one mentions Motul. I just did a search and discovered they're French so perhaps not common in the USA. If you are interested Motul makes a huge range of products for all sorts of engines
https://www.motul.com/nz/en

My brother races a variety of classic two strokes and has used the product for years without ever having an engine break.

On the oil change frequesncy my bike had its first at 500km and second at 1000km I have no idea what the oil was, other than very black and runny.

it was likely the china junk in there if you did not change it,before first start up an this was your first change ,if there was no harm done bike runs better should be fine ,an oil for wet clutches work best ,like said i used to sf 10 w 40 motorcycle oil,or motor cycle oil ,many guys have said they got good use of 15 w 40 no matter wich brand ,like said even regular car oil some use ,from 10 w 40 15 w 40 an alot of guys down south use 20 w 50 ,

motul i am sure is just a rebranded oil from your country i never heard of it hear in the states dont meen its not hear though under the name rotella, reality is there as many opinions of oil as there are people who think wich is the right one to use ,i would just say no syn in the hawk till after break in ,just makes sence to be ,with oil guys are going to use what they want an have sucesess with many different oils.


so we are all just giving an opinion ,like the guy above kinda contradicts his post ,more then half the guys hear use 15w40 Diesel oil an works just fine ,you should be fine we can only say what we use

Motul is a french brand, and here in Argentina is regarded (by some people, at least) as one of the best motorcycle oils.

Found this here http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/moto...to/mc_oil.html

API CLASS RATINGS APPLICABLE TO MOTORCYCLES:
SA through SE OBSOLETE -- Use SF/SG or SH unless you find motorcycle oil which still meets the original rating that your bike calls for in the owner's manual. I am not familiar with any SA/SB/SC/SD/SE rated oils still on the market, but there may be some available for special vintage class bikes (bikes built between 1910 and 1970).

SF & SG TECHNICALLY OBSOLETE FOR CARS, BUT STILL IN COMMON USE FOR MOTORCYCLE OILS -- You can find motorcycle oil which still meets the SF/SG rating (such as offerings from Castrol, Mobil, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Bellray, Motorex, Motul, Repsoil, etc). If your bike calls for that in the owner's manual, there are still a large number of motorcycle-specific motor oils on the market that are SF/SG rated, including every motorcycle oil which meets the full JASO-MA specification. Most current motorcycle engines still call for SF/SG rated motor oils. If you can not find an SF/SG rated oil and that is the rating called for, use an SH or SH+SJ rated oil -- but do not use API SJ, SL or SM!

SH Technically obsolete. This oil specification is used by some motorcycle manufacturers, and you can still find many SH rated motorcycle oils on the market. Do not use if your motorcycle calls for API SJ/SL/SM rated oils (only a few do).

SJ Technically obsolete. For 2001 and older automobile engines. An "Energy Conserving" motor oil (something good for late model cars, not most motorcycles). Note that this standard reduces the phosphorus contents of the motor oil, which is not necessarily a desirable reduction for most motorcycle engines. Check your motorcycle owner's manual specifically for recommendation of an SJ-rated motor oil before using it in your motorcycle, or stick to using SF/SG-rated, SH-rated or dual-rated (SH+SJ) motorcycle oils instead. Do not use unless an API SJ rating is specifically called for by your motorcycle manufacturer.

SL Technically obsolete. For 6/2001 - 11/2004 automobile engines. An "Energy Conserving" motor oil (something good for late model cars, not most motorcycles). Note that this standard reduces the ZDDP (zinc and phosphorus) additive contents of the motor oil even further than SJ rated motor oils, which is not a desirable reduction for most motorcycle engines. Check your motorcycle owner's manual specifically for recommendation of an SJ or SL rated motor oil before using an API SL rated oil in your motorcycle! Do not use unless an API SJ or API SL rating is specifically called for by your motorcycle manufacturer.

SM NEW/Current. For all 12/2004 and later automobile engines.

An "Energy Conserving" motor oil (something good for late model cars, not most motorcycles). The API increased the standards for anti-foaming, increased detergent levels, and improved low-temp performance, while lowering the ZDDP package contents again. API SM now replaces API SJ and API SL -- but SM-rated oil is still not suitable for most motorcycle engines (just as SJ and SL rated ones weren't), especially virtually every air-cooled, oil-cooled and air-oil cooled motorcycle engines and ANY motorcycle engine designed prior to 2001 (such as Suzuki Katana 600/750/1100, Suzuki Bandit 600/1100/1200). Check your motorcycle owner's manual specifically for recommendation of an SJ/SL/SM rated motor oil before using API SM rated oils in your motorcycle! Do not use unless an API SJ, SL or SM rating is specifically called for by your motorcycle manufacturer.

Such info has been on line for 20 years, but yours is actually current. Lots out there is obsolete. Such rapid technology advances are why I no longer post such details--reading such stuff interferes with riding time. :lmao: Another funny thing is Rotella isn't even properly rated on this system. Rotella is a commercial oil and its rating begins with a "C", not "S". Dump it in your engine and your warranty is void.

Hawk 229cc wrote, "so we are all just giving an opinion ,like the guy above kinda contradicts his post ,more then half the guys hear use 15w40 Diesel oil an works just fine ,you should be fine we can only say what we use"

90% of never married American male adults and 75% of never married American female adults have sexual experience before their 20th birthdays and about 35% have sexual transmitted disease. I'm sure their lubricants work fine, too. That type of reasoning, Hawk 229cc, will fail almost every time. Especially this time.


I have 4 TW200s. All bought used, low miles, broken in on dino oil. I've used Mobil 1 Racing 4t, had to replace a leaking base gasket at 58,000+ miles. The cylinder looked just honed, got a quick 2 passes, new rings. The other 3 had previous owners who were cheapskates and used Rotella. All three showed way worse wear than my original, and they had about 3500, 4750, and 5500 miles on them. Still, the Rotella lubed bikes still looked better than any of the hundreds of others I've rebuilt that only got dino oil, but there was a definite and consistent difference between Mobil 1 Racing 4T and Rotella wear rates. The worst was the one with lowest miles that saw a lot of very cold weather cold starts and I'm wondering if the extra 5 in the cold viscosity rating caused that.

CSC's website says,"The RX-3 takes 1.7 quarts of 5W-40 or 10W-40 motorcycle oil. That’s one quart and about 24 ounces of oil. Don’t use car oil or any oil with “friction inhibitors” because this will cause the clutch to slip. ... We recommend using non-synthetic oil on the first oil change, and then switching to Mobil 4T synthetic motorcycle oil at the 1000-mile mark."

Note the picture of Lupe putting oil in a bike shows a container with the word "motorcycle" on it. Got that?

Mobil 1 Racing 4T is the proper name for CSC's recommended oil. It is APA rated SH if you get the old stuff. The new stuff is SJ. Using this oil in our motorcycles is good, according to Gh426's info.

I'm through with this forum after Hawk 229cc's personal attack so well wishes to the rest.

Motul is a brand in it's own right...
It is the standard factoy oil used by Yamaha
All so used by ALL Yamaha factoy race teams..

All containers marked "Yamalube" have Motul inside them...
5100 15/40 semi syn
7100 15/40 full syn






.

way to touchy wont get it hear i dont think so motrocycle oil did you not see that ,personal attack you call it how about me i never mentioned your name,sorry i think it has to do with opinions an your mad couse you feel your right i was just stateing facts still am:lol:for real i have had many engines an not one has failed me unless i blew it up raceing or a lifter failed from a redline over rev at cruise night. wich still did not blow the engine replace a few rods top end work fixed ,lots about oil guys i cant even read all that anymore my post was half about its just being a matter of choise 10 w 40 motorcycle oil wet cluch oil 15w40 all a choise ,i guess all that matters is know one is not talking about a blown engine from useing the wrong oil yet or in this post,i have always used what the maufacture recomends or close ,this is getting wierd

so quickly back to the engine i have had all my mower engines last 15 years + an most still run push mowers being the only ones i never changed the oil in,al others need oil changes ,so again its choice just keep oil in the engine an use something close to what man fact recomends an you will be fine,my 406 uses high amount of zinc additive ,flat tappet cam vr1 20 w 50 weight,went back to it after trying 10w40 $4.49 a quart an up to 10.00 a qt, sale walmart:p

sqwert do you just have to be right i was not saying what works for you can not work ,i was saying what works for me an many other guys on this forum from posts i did read ,relax i figure if your leaving over this ,you got to get some cooth to build up i dont care what csc says ,your post is like freaking me out with you compareing to an grow up,there also long drawn out ,i could say the personal attack is to me ,but not leaveing myself yet ,not over opinions

to the others thanks for the replys did not think this was debate over wich oil is right for our china bikes,got to have thick skin some days i guess ,couse you just never know how some will react to a opinion post sorry about the tiff there citroajunkie the op

oh hey sqwert we used the same oil in our bikes from 10 w 40 motorcycle oil ,mine was valvoline ,with a picture of motorcycle on it so whats all the fuss about ,the hawk engine design from the 1970s

it only make sence alot of guys will want to use the 15w40 that some has more zinc then others for the old shcool design,an from what i have seen more then half use it thats all i was saying did not meen to offend you:hi:

sqwert, you can always start your own forum.

Oil threads are fun and games until someone loses an eye..........

That's why I keep it simple. Follow manufactures recommendations. Example.

thats pretty much all i was saying following the maufacture instructions without a 2 page report on oil an for hawk owners i can see why people would go with 15 w 40 couse it says it in the hand book an most guys would never think twice the chart above 15w40 it is, but then the 4 choises below that couses the oil debates i think

though i went with 10w40 motorcycle oil,cant be that thinned skined hear ,like said there are as many opinions about oil as there aseholes in the world including myself,i meen i never thought the guy would have that reaction ,couse i thought he just kinda contradicted himself ,i do it offten myself ,theres nothing perfect about this forum ,sure glad about that,see that i just contradicted myself:lmao:

Filters with your Oil Sir?:p

EFI version as far as i know its not out in a hawk yet ? do those work in a non efi hawk an get loaded in the side spring ,to replace the strainer type

Any oil that meets JASO-MA2 specs will work in your bike..
Thats all that realy matters is that it is suitable for a wet clutch
& gear box..
The biggest factor for long engine life is how often you change
the oil & filter...

My TTR250 gets a oil & filter change every 2 rides... As it lives on
or near the red line a lot of the time...


.

Those oil filters are for the NC 250 motor that comes in the RX3.

Quick question - What is the model code of your Hawk engine?
Reason I ask I may maybe just maybe found a 250 version update for that engine without replacing the whole engine.

If you would be kind enough to let me know?

My m,ate is going to Utah - I wanna sell sell sell he collect money in Utah and send etc.
please advise what you suggest as per volume etc?
Each set can include the small strainer filter and O rings as well as a sump plug for FREE no money need but wait there's more......

a b c d e f g h ... .
 

Brought home 2 cases Mobil 1 Racing 4T today. Latest blend is API SL, SM, SN, CH, JASO MA, MA2. Says so on the bottle. Lucas also has a similar expansion of API ratings on the containers in the store and declining prices on the new stuff. I was told by a reliable source a new base was updated for better lubricity with fewer additives, improved durability at temperature extremes, less thermal variance in use, improved corrosion resistance, less oxidation, significantly reduced shear in the transmission, AND the new blend and base provides a final product that should sell for 1/4 to 1/3 less than the old stuff. Walmart has the new Mobil 1 Racing 4T for about $6.50/quart. Walmart used to charge close to $10.00.

So, Gh426's gift of all that information is now riddled with obsolescence. I tried to warn you. Trust me, you really don't want to dedicate sufficient portions of your life to keeping up the lubricant industry unless you sell the stuff and need to answer questions.

Latest models of commercial vehicles require different oils than older models. If you want to use Rotella or some other oil not specified for motorcycles better make sure such changes don't leave your bike unprotected.

I've also noticed some new packaging on shop products like Sea Foam Engine Treatment, DeepCreep, and similar products along with lower prices. No idea what gives with those products. SeaFoam's products still seem to work well.

Don't take your ball and go home, Sqwert. Sticks and stones.

yes changing the oil more often is the best thing a person can do with wet clutch engines ,i plan to do my oil every 500 to 1000 miles ,though with not alot of time to ride this year,will be lucky to get to 1000 miles on the hawk ,been so busy with my 02 z28 project selling my 95 406 ,more likely after august i will ride more into the fall ,when it gets below 50 it dont ride much unless its on the way home anymore

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:lmao:

What is funny about that, Hawk 229cc?

I use 10w40 motorcycle oil. I need the cold protection. Some mornings it will be in the 20's spring and fall. I have been using valvoline. It seems to work well. Just changed the hawks oil with Lucas motorcycle oil but I dont like the way the trans shifts now. I have a little over 1000 miles on my hawk I will try the mobil 1 motorcycle oil and see how that goes.

Anybody have simple instructions on how to adjust the clutch at the engine/trans lever- TT250?

adjust the 2 13mm nuts as needed leaving a slight free play

First, run the handlebar adjustment all the way in.

Second, adjust the nuts at the clutch end so that the clutch is fully engaged, with just a whisker of free play.

Third, crank the adjuster up on the lever mount until the lever feels as you like it.

Fourth, have a nice ride.

wello
 

what was funny is that to me there was no personal attack hear in the thread ,only opinions ,then it turns out myself an the other use the same oil i still applogized just not sure what for couse sometimes even if your wrong your still wrong;) right or wrong

I use this every fall..

Clever :tup: