ChinaRiders Forums - Zongshen RX3S

ChinaRiders Forums (http://www.chinariders.net/index.php)

- Zongshen RX3 (http://www.chinariders.net/forumdisplay.php?f=136)

- - Zongshen RX3S (http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=19967)

Wow. This is really interesting. I wonder if they are offering both or are performing an evaluation exercise. They seem rather similar, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sullybiker (Post 291492)

Wow. This is really interesting. I wonder if they are offering both or are performing an evaluation exercise. They seem rather similar, right?

I'm assuming they have them here for EPA testing too.

Some things I dug out:

From CSC's blog:
https://i.imgur.com/tCrpIVM.png
Source: http://californiascooterco.com/blog/?p=30049

And here's a review from a Brit based in China that rode both:

Quote:

REVIEW
The RX3s
The marketing guy said that the RX3s is aimed at people getting into off road and Adventure riding or touring, people moving from normal road bikes here in the domestic market. It has a low seat- great for the Chinese market compared this to the X5 and X2 which I’ve ridden more accessible for Chinese riders we even had a female rider along who could put her feet down…
The RX3s is probably more road oriented, but the low seat means you are sat “in” the bike rather than on top so much. If you do some off-road on a trip, the lower centre of gravity is quite confidence inspiring. We took the bikes along the beach and into the surf also into the hills on some- albeit limited -stretches of rocky and steep unpaved sections.
Standing up is pretty comfortable and the bike is quite easy to control in this position, although my fellow French rider said he bottomed out the suspension..again more road biased.
I’ve found that, in China, long trips involve A LOT of road and a LITTLE dirt, so it’s well suited for adventures in China where going into the wild is not the basis of your ride.
I’ve got to say though comfort on the RX3s was pretty good, wide squishy and set back seat (I’ve had a numb bum more than once riding more offload biased Chinese bikes long distance in China …whereas the Rx3s didn’t give me this once in 6-7 days)… I only found on a couple of days after 1-2 hours in the saddle pretty bad pain in my knees. I’m 178-180 and maybe because of the lower seat, the pegs have come up if compared with the higher more off-road bikes.
The RX3s cruises at highway speeds comfortably. 120-130 is really comfortable- 120 miles per hour is 74 miles per hour. good enough for the highway. The acceleration is okay on the RX3s and the best thing is the long fifth gear and the fact it has six gears– always more on top for overtaking and maneauvres on the highway. Very little vibration in bars etc. It’s a counterbalanced engine (correct me if I’m wrong).
Seating…well standing was easy on both bikes and we did this frequently on long rides to strecth and to avoid the massive pot holes in some of the road sufaces..plus the off- road bits that we did. I came off on the sand) I think it was really nice having a heavier bike compared to my 250 dual sport .. it made mevv feel planted on the road and somehow gives confidence off road. I remember U.S. reviews of the RX3 250cc saying that it’s clearly not intended for hard beating offroad. This may be true here, but I enjoyed the extra comfort on the road.

I can’t really comment on quality, as I didn’t ride for a really extended time, but I did see rust on the frame which the top box was attached to..weird for a bike that was four weeks old..
I found it difficult to find second gear. That was a pain.
On the plus side, I had no electrical problems with the bike, which I’ve had before with Chinese bikes whereby the fuel gage didn’t work, there was nothing present like this in the RX3s I rode.
My French riding partner told me that suspension and breaks do not match Japanese adventure bike quality. To be honest, I’ve only ridden Chinese bikes, so it’s not. a comparison I can make, but , yes I’ve mentioned that this is a more road oriented bike so suspension is not massive.
The RX4
I rode the rx4 for one of the days. At first, I was disappointed as it’s not as nippy and flickable as the rx3s.
Plus acceleration and deceleration both seemed slower (the latter with engine But, after a while, I found it not to be sluggish on the road(it’s heavier by 20kg) but it felt more planted .. The extra power became quite reassuring. Still, at first felt I had to anticipate stuff ahead of time, cos, unlike the smaller bike, it didn’t quickly pull into empty spaces.. And unlike the smaller bike often had no more to give at the top of the rev range.
Actually, and maybe it’s just the specific bike I was using, I found it maxed out at 6k in sixth gear with the throttle wide open. I managed a top speed of about 148Nice chugging power though. perhaps the top end power runs out.. the Rx3s seemed to always have more available (just in comparison with the RX4) and was slightly less vibey at speed. Another rider said that might be because the screen is bigger so less wind, dunno, I although inexpert would put it down to the fact it’s a single not twin cylinder.

Source: https://www.mychinablog.com/ride-and...4-motorcycles/

The 450cc is the most over-square of all the engines, so it's not a tractor. The 400cc is the same bore/stroke ratio as the RX3 so will likely make power in about the same way. Smooth and a little biased toward midrange and top. It's definitely targeted at the tarmac; I suspect that the RX3S will be the big seller in the USA. Time will tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sullybiker (Post 291492)

Wow. This is really interesting. I wonder if they are offering both or are performing an evaluation exercise. They seem rather similar, right?

It appears that CSC will be offering both the 380 cc twin and the 450cc single. Right now they have the ones that are going to be used for EPA/DOT certification. If you look at the specs you'll see that the 450 single is about 50 lbs heavier than the 380 twin, which is about 15 lbs heavier than our RX3. Both of the new bikes have a 5.2 gallon tank and dual disc brakes in the front. I would expect the big single to have lots of torque for better off road performance and the twin to be smoother running. The single has 40 hp vs the 24 of our RX3 so it's almost twice the power.

As an aside, I wonder what the tariff war is going to do to Zong pricing in the US. That might also affect our spare parts pricing.

From the listed specs, I'm liking the RX3S more so than the RX4.

The RX4 is packing parallel twin 650 weight without the matching power. The RX3S on the other hand, is just a little heavier than the RX3 while delivering a nice bump in power. It also looks like the Tourfella aluminum luggage is now standard, which is another nice spec bump versus the RX3. Additionally, it has dual disc brakes; this has really been the only thing that I have found lacking on my current RX3. Compared to my Gold Wing, TT250 or Versys 650, the RX3 is a little slow to haul down from speed on pavement.

I should be approaching 20,000 miles on my RX3 in another year, so depending upon how the powertrain holds up (running like a top currrently), I may be either replacing the RX3 or adding to the stable (time for a garage addition). We'll see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyoungbl (Post 291500)

As an aside, I wonder what the tariff war is going to do to Zong pricing in the US. That might also affect our spare parts pricing.

I recall reading on the Exhaust Notes blog that Steve Seidner stated to Baja John that the next shipment of TT250's, coming in October, may be more expensive due to tariffs on Chinese goods. If so, that will definitely affect RX3S and RX4 pricing, spare parts included. Current RX3 spare parts stock not so much, since it is already here and paid for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Working_ZS (Post 291517)

From the listed specs, I'm liking the RX3S more so than the RX4.

The weight is notable for me. I don't obsess about it on bikes (some really do, and it's a bit strange in ADV circles as the most popuar bikes are all rather porky) but on paper (and that's not that meaningful, I know) I don't really see any particular advantage to the RX4.

I wonder if CSC will still offer the RX3 down the line. I still think it's an attractive price point as long as it doesn't get higher, and it's still pretty light weight.

Another question mark for me is reliability, cooling, and valve intervals. Shim or screw?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sullybiker (Post 291521)

Likewise for me, regarding the weight. Having a Versys 650, I know first hand what a heavier, especially up top, bike suffers in handling; at low speed the Versys is a bear to maneuver while doing tight turns and figure eight drills in parking lots. The power is great in a straight line, but getting it thru a curve is harder compared to the RX3. You really feel the difference riding them back to back.

Regarding the RX3, I think RX3S sales will determine that. If it does well, then they will probably drop it. If it tanks, then the RX3 stays for its low price point. Either way, I'm not concerned. The RX3S looks to be using a lot of the RX3 hardware: tires and rear wheel (I wonder if the front dual rotor wheel and forks can be retro fitted to the RX3?), what looks to be the same headlight, instrument cluster, etc. So RX3 parts should still be easy to come by if CSC drops it in favor of the RX3S.

Concerning the engine valvetrain, I suspect that Zongshen will stay with what it knows and keep it screw type. Especially if they stick with the softer valve seats, which will require more frequent valve checks and adjustments. Having said that, the $30 I spend every 10,000 miles on a gallon of Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant has proven to be money well spent. My RX3 valves haven't budged since 4500 miles and I'm coming up on 13,000 miles now with no issues engine-wise. I even use it in the Versys 650 and TT250 and I'll continue to use it in these bikes too, if I decide to purchase one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Working_ZS (Post 291522)

Likewise for me, regarding the weight. .

Agree totally. Although not a featherweight machine, the RX3 is still so much easier to move around in the garage or on the trail than any of my previous bikes. I can live with another 15-20 lbs (the 380cc twin) if that also comes with a big bump in performance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes (Post 282839)

RX4 is very much a different beats (I rode it and felt 1st wayyy to high)

It's interesting that a big single doesn't have a crawler first gear, if what you're saying is correct. Especially as it's short-stroke. Identical ratio to a DRZ-400, in fact.

What you said piqued my interest. How's the suspension? Is the RX4 up-soec'd everywere but the weight?

I'm wondering if it might be their premium bike.

When comparing weights remember the Zong Shen bikes include a significant number of accessories the other bikes do not. That's a significant weight penalty right there, and once you add all the accessories to most other bikes of similar type in the same displacements they are also porkers.

I probably won't spend the money on any of the new bikes since the RX3 with the 300 bore kit is such a pleasant ride. Might be better for me in the long run to find another RX3 engine to install a 300 kit and grind some transmission gears with wider ratios. Maybe design and build a custom exhaust that weighs less once the convertor needs replacing. We'll see.

Now where have I seen that motor before...
looks a lot like a Suzuki Inazuma GW250 motor..
A very good motor to copy... should be pretty dam bullet
proof if they done it right...

It just dosn't look close it is all but a mirror image of the GW250...

What do yer think....

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete (Post 291591)

Indeed, the stroke is identical.
TC380

https://i.imgur.com/SITxqFx.jpg
Suzuki
https://i.imgur.com/WQKqwcV.jpg

The front of the crank case is certainly similar. Obviously the head's been reworked a fair bit.