Hawk or Tao Tao tbr7

Scottish · 06-08-2019, 11:53 AM

I have been kicking around getting one of these two. I was leaning towards the tbr7 until I saw the wheel sizes of 19 and 17. I will be doing more trail riding than street and I think the Hawk 21/18 wheels would offer better tire choices.

My question is the TBR7 easier to get plated here in Illinois ? I,m thinking that I would go through TXmotosports because of motocheese videos and that their website states quick delivery of needed paper work. Is that true?

Thanks, Scott

ChrisWNY · 06-08-2019, 01:06 PM

You shouldn't have an issue getting either the Hawk or TBR registered in Illinois. As far as TXpowersports, you'll read a lot of mixed feedback about them. For me personally, I didn't have any issues...they delivered the Hawk within a couple of weeks of my order and I received the paperwork for it a day later. I took the paperwork to the NYS DMV a week or so later and walked out with plates. Some States are trickier than others - if for some reason the TBR isn't in one of their databases, they may be more reluctant to register it. The Hawk was in NYS's DMV database so I had no issues in NY.

Scottish · 06-08-2019, 07:23 PM

Thanks Chris,
I was just cruising this site and did find some pretty negative comments on TXP. Are there any known good dealers ? I,m too old to have much patience for being jacked around.

pete · 06-08-2019, 08:27 PM

17 / 19 or 18 / 21..
it really comes down to what you call trail riding..

17 or 18 rear... diameter diffrents is so small it really doesn't matter
other than tyre choices...

19 or 21 front …. roots , rocks , logs , rivers/creeks or up/down ledge's
the 21 will always be a better choice.. and again better tyre choice..

look at the suspension on the two bikes... get the one with the better
suspension... a front rim is easyer , cheaper to change than it is to
sort out crap suspension...

suspension is the single most important item in a dirt bike..
You can have all the power in the world... off-road that power is
unusable... crap suspension will put you on the ground a lot more..
And tier you out faster from fighting to stay up right most of the time..

crap suspension = low fun level...

that is my thinking on the subject..
the prise of the Ohlins rear shock in my bike would buy almost 2 Hawks..
add the valving and work in the front end then it is 2 Hawks..

..

paulsstag · 06-10-2019, 01:25 PM

Sounds like your in the same boat as most of us when we chose a bike

I came down to this exact decision ,ie the hawk or , at the time , the new TBR7.

I went with the TBR7 myself for the following reasons:
* I liked the looks of the white model.
* It came with factory handguards.
* I realised that i would prefer to ride the bike out to the trail heads and ride off road from that point on.

So my thoughts on pros and cons of both:

the handguards look good but are cheap ( i know your shocked and stunned at that) , they did however keep the brush and thorns out of my hands but broke on the 2nd fall over(call it low speed crash).

The wheel size has not been an issue and they are pretty damned tough in the rough and rocky terrain i've ridden in . Maybe the 21 inch front would have been easier but i did not expect or need a full blown moto-X bike.
That being said knobbies are great in the dirt etc but wear out quick on paved road plus you get more vibration and less cornering ability so the rim /tire combo works for me.

Both front and rear suspension seem about the same type that can be modified as needed in front but both are long skinny affairs so maybe a fork brace will help ( check out megadans bike ). both rear shocks are just basic but the length on the hawk is 320mm vs 300mm on the TBR7 so probably more travel for the hawk but the TBR7 has a spring preload adjuster to firm it up a little or lower the bike if needed.( recently blew out the factory rear shock so have ordered a 310mm KEOGHS unit).

Both bikes now have disc front and rear ( mine is an early 2019 with a drum rear).Changing gear ratios is the same for both.

Both bikes need attention when assembling so about the same there.

Both carburetors are sealed and need modification.

The handlebars on the TBR7 have a welded in plate on the ends for mounting the handguards that can be used to fit other types or end weights or mirrors etc plus the tbr had a heavy rubber crossbar cover vs the hawk with the foam unit ( a small win for the tbr).It may absorb more vibration ?

The rear swing arm on both bikes is light duty square with old style chain adjustments.

Headlight bulb for the TBR is a H6M ( same as most atvs) and the Hawk gets a much better H4 . have not , and don't intend to, ride at night but lights on for safety with a bike is a must, So a clear win for the hawk.

Also i did buy my bike from TXpowersports , some minor damage ( scratches and bent brackets ) . No problems per say with them and zero problems with registration here in New Mexico. So neutral on there service.

So the big Question , what would i do now??????

I would be taking a very, very hard look at the blue eagle brozz with the upside down forks and the aluminum swing arm, i'd want the street legal deluxe version but have to settle for the 17/17 rim size which again is no big deal even for the rough terrain i will ride in.

For you if its trails only then the non deluxe with 18/21 may fit you better?

Like you i wanted to keep the costs down as i was not sure if i would even enjoy riding again so the price was a big consideration. Having bought a bike it turns out i do still enjoy riding and exploring and would consider the better suspension of the blue eagle worth the extra $300 or so increase in price.

Hope this helps
Paul

paulsstag · 06-10-2019, 04:39 PM

I just went back to look again at the blue eagle and realized i was confusing 2 different bikes

The blue eagle comes with 19/17 rims/tires so even better

It now said the list price was $2400 which i thought odd as that puts you on a tt250 csc ( a great choice but a big price to swallow), some one had got an email from Jeff saying the price was $1750 with free shipping so much better price/value.

The other bike i confused the Brozz specs with is the Apollo 250/ Apollo 250 deluxe (18/21 rims and 17/17 rims). Although the small fuel tank on those is not ideal.

Sorry if i caused more confusion.

In each case i was thinking the upgrades to the suspension would be worth the extra coin at around $300 or so more but not at $1000+ or more.

Megadan · 06-10-2019, 08:25 PM

A 21 inch front wheel is just as useable on the road as a 19. Makes the bike very stable at speed, but does come with the drawback of slightly less responsive steering.

The thinner traditional forks of the Hawk aren't entirely a negative in my eyes. Yes, they flex more, but that isn't entirely a downside. A fork brace is nice and easy to do, but not necessary. As far as damping, for about 60 to 120 bucks cartridge emulator valves can be installed and it makes a huge difference. Even without them the Hawk handles decently off and on road with proper fluid levels and the right rider sag via preload spacers.

Side surprise, the Hawk front forks actually have more travel than most of the cheap USD forks out there. A plus for off road.

The rear shock on the Hawk isn't that bad of a unit, but its not good for heavy guys, especially with no preload adjustment. If it had that I would have never replaced it with the Keoghs unit, which also had the benefit of having some damping adjustment.

Both bikes have cheap rear swing arms, so that is a wash. I wouldn't plan on jumping either bike too much for that reason alone.

OneLeggedRider · 06-10-2019, 08:42 PM

Just bought a TBR7 about an hour ago, so I'll have a good reference point for my Hawk, and the mods will be easier the second time around.

paulsstag · 06-10-2019, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

A 21 inch front wheel is just as useable on the road as a 19. Makes the bike very stable at speed, but does come with the drawback of slightly less responsive steering.

The thinner traditional forks of the Hawk aren't entirely a negative in my eyes. Yes, they flex more, but that isn't entirely a downside. A fork brace is nice and easy to do, but not necessary. As far as damping, for about 60 to 120 bucks cartridge emulator valves can be installed and it makes a huge difference. Even without them the Hawk handles decently off and on road with proper fluid levels and the right rider sag via preload spacers.

Side surprise, the Hawk front forks actually have more travel than most of the cheap USD forks out there. A plus for off road.

The rear shock on the Hawk isn't that bad of a unit, but its not good for heavy guys, especially with no preload adjustment. If it had that I would have never replaced it with the Keoghs unit, which also had the benefit of having some damping adjustment.

Both bikes have cheap rear swing arms, so that is a wash. I wouldn't plan on jumping either bike too much for that reason alone.

Dan , i did not even think of the suspension travel on the bikes, do you happen to know how much you get with the one's fitted to the hawk and the upside down units ?

Scottish · 06-10-2019, 11:51 PM

Wow! Lots of good detailed comparisons and advice. A big thank you to everyone. I will ride on the road a little bit,but I mainly want one to have a road legal bike to ride in the dual sport rides in Wisconsin which I believe are mostly off road. I don,t plan on pushing it real hard,just some fun trail riding and riding it to a few fishing locations.
The one thing that looks real iffy to me for off road is how low the back of the rear brake pedal is - looks to be lower than the bottom frame tubes. I would maybe look at changing that design to get it up out of harms way.

Megadan · 06-11-2019, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsstag

Dan , i did not even think of the suspension travel on the bikes, do you happen to know how much you get with the one's fitted to the hawk and the upside down units ?

I don't have any super accurate travel specs on the Hawk, but it is at least 7.5 inches bordering on about 8. I forgot to measure total travel the last time I pulled the forks, which is something I have been meaning to do but keep forgetting lol.

As far as the USD forks are concerned - at least in regards to the TT250, Storm, etc. (aka, not the higher end SSR or Pitster Pro bikes) usually their front travel is around 6.2 to 6.5 inches. CSC States the TT250 as having 6.2 inches of front travel.

As far as rear suspension travel is concerned, at least in regards to the Hawk and TT250, it's 6.5 inches of effective travel from full extension to bump stop contact, and maybe 7 with bump stop compression. The factory Hawk rear shock is a dual rate spring that essentially allows for a preset rider sag. The issue with this is that with heavier riders like myself it eats up at least half of the travel just sitting on the bike. Without any preload adjustment there isn't any way to compensate for it, and as a result it tends to bottom out on bigger bumps/landings quite easily. That is the reason I went with my current shock, it is a linear rate with preload adjustment, which allows me to set proper riders sag and get full suspension travel.

One side effect of the shock I have is that it did actually increase my rear travel a little bit. The shock stroke is a little bit longer (to go with my increase in ride height thanks to the 5mm extra length). My rough math puts it at about an extra half to 3/4 of an inch more than the stock unit - Just call it 7 inches rear total.

Not quite motocross territory, but a fair bit more than your typical road bike.

Merlin · 06-11-2019, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Just bought a TBR7 about an hour ago, so I'll have a good reference point for my Hawk, and the mods will be easier the second time around.

Congratulations on the new bike. Already wondering how your going to like it.

OneLeggedRider · 06-11-2019, 12:36 PM

I'm gonna let my cousin Jay have it, we worked out the details today. He works for me and lives close by, so he will get a bike we can both play with and wrench on, and I get a riding buddy. With tax tag and title it will around $1,550 so he can work 155 hours on finishing my cabin and whatnot, and I'm sure that number will go up when he wants upgrades and repairs lol.

buzz · 03-11-2021, 07:56 PM

TBR7 is a great bike 37 miles not one problem

kb21guru · 06-13-2021, 11:50 PM

I like my TBR7 2021 model.

17t

I ripped out the air box, I don't see myself riding in rain or deep water. I rode through a creek that was about a foot deep the other day and it was fine.

I used a valve from my Apollo x14 to keep the PCV working. Nifty 3 tube valve with the lower 3rd tube for the oil collector.

I used a 1980's BMX number plate to make a mud/rock/water guard being the air box is now gone. The correct old school number plates (Hot Plates) are very flexible and don't crack easy. (8 inch at the top and 10 inch across the bottom) With the Hot Plate it's simply hacking off the sides and drilling some holes for zip ties.

Rear baffle has been removed (Cut flush with back plate so I still have the last exhaust hole at least, and I am going to cut the cat off and have a new tube welded in place, and cut off the exhaust air intake and have that welded up too. No cat, don't need a air intake.

I didn't have the jets to rework the carb yet (My jets are all for smaller engines 125cc dirt bikes, that I run methanol through so my jets are 130 and up) So I'll prolly hit iron pony tomorrow.

But all in all I like it.

06-08-2019, 11:53 AM	#1
Scottish Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 5	Hawk or Tao Tao tbr7 I have been kicking around getting one of these two. I was leaning towards the tbr7 until I saw the wheel sizes of 19 and 17. I will be doing more trail riding than street and I think the Hawk 21/18 wheels would offer better tire choices. My question is the TBR7 easier to get plated here in Illinois ? I,m thinking that I would go through TXmotosports because of motocheese videos and that their website states quick delivery of needed paper work. Is that true? Thanks, Scott
	0

06-08-2019, 01:06 PM	#2
ChrisWNY Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 212	You shouldn't have an issue getting either the Hawk or TBR registered in Illinois. As far as TXpowersports, you'll read a lot of mixed feedback about them. For me personally, I didn't have any issues...they delivered the Hawk within a couple of weeks of my order and I received the paperwork for it a day later. I took the paperwork to the NYS DMV a week or so later and walked out with plates. Some States are trickier than others - if for some reason the TBR isn't in one of their databases, they may be more reluctant to register it. The Hawk was in NYS's DMV database so I had no issues in NY. __________________ 2018 RPS Hawk 250cc Mods so far: 1. Mikuni VM26 Carburetor w/#115 main jet 2. 17T/45T JT sprockets 3. JT 428 X-ring chain 4. Air box mod 5. Hawk Digital Cluster 6. Aftermarket IMS shift lever 7. Performance Aftermarket Exhaust 8. 295mm Nitrogen Gas Monoshock, 20W oil front forks
	0

06-08-2019, 08:27 PM	#4
pete Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: ChCh , NZ Posts: 2,261	17 / 19 or 18 / 21.. it really comes down to what you call trail riding.. 17 or 18 rear... diameter diffrents is so small it really doesn't matter other than tyre choices... 19 or 21 front …. roots , rocks , logs , rivers/creeks or up/down ledge's the 21 will always be a better choice.. and again better tyre choice.. look at the suspension on the two bikes... get the one with the better suspension... a front rim is easyer , cheaper to change than it is to sort out crap suspension... suspension is the single most important item in a dirt bike.. You can have all the power in the world... off-road that power is unusable... crap suspension will put you on the ground a lot more.. And tier you out faster from fighting to stay up right most of the time.. crap suspension = low fun level... that is my thinking on the subject.. the prise of the Ohlins rear shock in my bike would buy almost 2 Hawks.. add the valving and work in the front end then it is 2 Hawks.. .. __________________ 09 XT660R ... 06 TTR250 ... 80 Montesa H6 125 Enduro... 77 Montesa Cota 348 MRR "Malcom Rathnell Replica"... Current resto projects.. 81 Honda CT110... 80 Kawasaki KL250A1... 11 Husaburg TE125 enduro... "sold" along with another 31... Lifan 125 Pitbike.. "stolen" ... KIWI BIKER FORUM...... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/content.php All the best offroad rides in NZ... http://www.remotemoto.com/ E-mail... xtpete1@gmail.com
	0

06-10-2019, 01:25 PM	#5
paulsstag Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Silver City New Mexico Posts: 290	my 2 cents worth Sounds like your in the same boat as most of us when we chose a bike I came down to this exact decision ,ie the hawk or , at the time , the new TBR7. I went with the TBR7 myself for the following reasons: * I liked the looks of the white model. * It came with factory handguards. * I realised that i would prefer to ride the bike out to the trail heads and ride off road from that point on. So my thoughts on pros and cons of both: the handguards look good but are cheap ( i know your shocked and stunned at that) , they did however keep the brush and thorns out of my hands but broke on the 2nd fall over(call it low speed crash). The wheel size has not been an issue and they are pretty damned tough in the rough and rocky terrain i've ridden in . Maybe the 21 inch front would have been easier but i did not expect or need a full blown moto-X bike. That being said knobbies are great in the dirt etc but wear out quick on paved road plus you get more vibration and less cornering ability so the rim /tire combo works for me. Both front and rear suspension seem about the same type that can be modified as needed in front but both are long skinny affairs so maybe a fork brace will help ( check out megadans bike ). both rear shocks are just basic but the length on the hawk is 320mm vs 300mm on the TBR7 so probably more travel for the hawk but the TBR7 has a spring preload adjuster to firm it up a little or lower the bike if needed.( recently blew out the factory rear shock so have ordered a 310mm KEOGHS unit). Both bikes now have disc front and rear ( mine is an early 2019 with a drum rear).Changing gear ratios is the same for both. Both bikes need attention when assembling so about the same there. Both carburetors are sealed and need modification. The handlebars on the TBR7 have a welded in plate on the ends for mounting the handguards that can be used to fit other types or end weights or mirrors etc plus the tbr had a heavy rubber crossbar cover vs the hawk with the foam unit ( a small win for the tbr).It may absorb more vibration ? The rear swing arm on both bikes is light duty square with old style chain adjustments. Headlight bulb for the TBR is a H6M ( same as most atvs) and the Hawk gets a much better H4 . have not , and don't intend to, ride at night but lights on for safety with a bike is a must, So a clear win for the hawk. Also i did buy my bike from TXpowersports , some minor damage ( scratches and bent brackets ) . No problems per say with them and zero problems with registration here in New Mexico. So neutral on there service. So the big Question , what would i do now?????? I would be taking a very, very hard look at the blue eagle brozz with the upside down forks and the aluminum swing arm, i'd want the street legal deluxe version but have to settle for the 17/17 rim size which again is no big deal even for the rough terrain i will ride in. For you if its trails only then the non deluxe with 18/21 may fit you better? Like you i wanted to keep the costs down as i was not sure if i would even enjoy riding again so the price was a big consideration. Having bought a bike it turns out i do still enjoy riding and exploring and would consider the better suspension of the blue eagle worth the extra $300 or so increase in price. Hope this helps Paul
	3

06-10-2019, 04:39 PM	#6
paulsstag Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Silver City New Mexico Posts: 290	the lost cents- 2 of them I just went back to look again at the blue eagle and realized i was confusing 2 different bikes The blue eagle comes with 19/17 rims/tires so even better It now said the list price was $2400 which i thought odd as that puts you on a tt250 csc ( a great choice but a big price to swallow), some one had got an email from Jeff saying the price was $1750 with free shipping so much better price/value. The other bike i confused the Brozz specs with is the Apollo 250/ Apollo 250 deluxe (18/21 rims and 17/17 rims). Although the small fuel tank on those is not ideal. Sorry if i caused more confusion. In each case i was thinking the upgrades to the suspension would be worth the extra coin at around $300 or so more but not at $1000+ or more.
	0

06-08-2019, 07:23 PM	#3
Scottish Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 5	Thanks Chris, I was just cruising this site and did find some pretty negative comments on TXP. Are there any known good dealers ? I,m too old to have much patience for being jacked around.
	0

06-10-2019, 08:25 PM	#7
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,020	A 21 inch front wheel is just as useable on the road as a 19. Makes the bike very stable at speed, but does come with the drawback of slightly less responsive steering. The thinner traditional forks of the Hawk aren't entirely a negative in my eyes. Yes, they flex more, but that isn't entirely a downside. A fork brace is nice and easy to do, but not necessary. As far as damping, for about 60 to 120 bucks cartridge emulator valves can be installed and it makes a huge difference. Even without them the Hawk handles decently off and on road with proper fluid levels and the right rider sag via preload spacers. Side surprise, the Hawk front forks actually have more travel than most of the cheap USD forks out there. A plus for off road. The rear shock on the Hawk isn't that bad of a unit, but its not good for heavy guys, especially with no preload adjustment. If it had that I would have never replaced it with the Keoghs unit, which also had the benefit of having some damping adjustment. Both bikes have cheap rear swing arms, so that is a wash. I wouldn't plan on jumping either bike too much for that reason alone. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	0

06-10-2019, 08:42 PM	#8
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	Just bought a TBR7 about an hour ago, so I'll have a good reference point for my Hawk, and the mods will be easier the second time around.
	6

06-10-2019, 11:51 PM	#10
Scottish Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 5	Wow! Lots of good detailed comparisons and advice. A big thank you to everyone. I will ride on the road a little bit,but I mainly want one to have a road legal bike to ride in the dual sport rides in Wisconsin which I believe are mostly off road. I don,t plan on pushing it real hard,just some fun trail riding and riding it to a few fishing locations. The one thing that looks real iffy to me for off road is how low the back of the rear brake pedal is - looks to be lower than the bottom frame tubes. I would maybe look at changing that design to get it up out of harms way.
	0

06-11-2019, 12:36 PM	#13
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	I'm gonna let my cousin Jay have it, we worked out the details today. He works for me and lives close by, so he will get a bike we can both play with and wrench on, and I get a riding buddy. With tax tag and title it will around $1,550 so he can work 155 hours on finishing my cabin and whatnot, and I'm sure that number will go up when he wants upgrades and repairs lol.
	0

03-11-2021, 07:56 PM	#14
buzz Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Dayton Pa. Posts: 862	TBR7 is a great bike 37 miles not one problem
	0

06-13-2021, 11:50 PM	#15
kb21guru Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 10	I like my TBR7 2021 model. 17t I ripped out the air box, I don't see myself riding in rain or deep water. I rode through a creek that was about a foot deep the other day and it was fine. I used a valve from my Apollo x14 to keep the PCV working. Nifty 3 tube valve with the lower 3rd tube for the oil collector. I used a 1980's BMX number plate to make a mud/rock/water guard being the air box is now gone. The correct old school number plates (Hot Plates) are very flexible and don't crack easy. (8 inch at the top and 10 inch across the bottom) With the Hot Plate it's simply hacking off the sides and drilling some holes for zip ties. Rear baffle has been removed (Cut flush with back plate so I still have the last exhaust hole at least, and I am going to cut the cat off and have a new tube welded in place, and cut off the exhaust air intake and have that welded up too. No cat, don't need a air intake. I didn't have the jets to rework the carb yet (My jets are all for smaller engines 125cc dirt bikes, that I run methanol through so my jets are 130 and up) So I'll prolly hit iron pony tomorrow. But all in all I like it.
	0