pure gas versus 10% ethenol

bechandler07 · 06-14-2009, 01:41 AM

has anyone tried pure gas versus the 10% ethenol ? i am wondering if the bikes would run better . there is only 1 place around here that sales pure gas but if it runs better it will be worth the extra few cents

Jim · 06-14-2009, 01:47 AM

I've moved this to misc since it doesn't specifically apply to dual sports...

I haven't even seen an ethanol blend available in my area, I did however see it on my trip to Saskatchewan. The bike seems to run fine on regular gas. I'm not very educated on the subject of fuel / alternative fuels though.

bechandler07 · 06-14-2009, 01:53 AM

my bike is a hi-bird gy200 that is why i put it in dual sport

bechandler07 · 06-14-2009, 01:54 AM

everything around here is blend . more of that tree-hugger stuff that cleans emissions but clogs fuel filters alot sooner

AZ200cc · 06-14-2009, 02:13 AM

As with everything one person must try it first.......Guess that might be You......... 8O

Jim · 06-14-2009, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianc9306

everything around here is blend . more of that tree-hugger stuff that cleans emissions but clogs fuel filters alot sooner

I guess not having one on the bike you don't have to worry about it, but then the gunk that would clog the filter is in the engine...

I've seen all sorts of additives and stuff, of course Chevron with their Techron... And Shell is now adding nitrogen... I haven't used anything but plain old gas in the Lifan though.

suprf1y · 06-14-2009, 11:25 AM

Ethanol has a lot of people angry, and I'm not sure why.
Its an excellent fuel, and has almost none of the negative qualities of methanol.
People cry about jetting, but at 10%, which is pretty much the standard, there is not enough to make a difference.
Just about all the fuel in Canada is supposed to have ethanol in it (search top tier gas), but trying to get that info from the gas companies can be a little confusing. Shell's new 'nitrogen enriched' fuel is marketing nonsense. One of my buddies is an ethanol hater, and only uses Shell premium, which they claim has no ethanol. I told him I'd rather have high octane ethanol in my gas, than nitrogen, which won't even support combustion.

AZ200cc · 06-14-2009, 11:39 AM

Anything that cuts down on oil consumption is cool by me, I'd run my bike on beer if they could make it work.

Weldangrind · 06-14-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprf1y

Ethanol has a lot of people angry, and I'm not sure why.
Its an excellent fuel, and has almost none of the negative qualities of methanol.
People cry about jetting, but at 10%, which is pretty much the standard, there is not enough to make a difference.
Just about all the fuel in Canada is supposed to have ethanol in it (search top tier gas), but trying to get that info from the gas companies can be a little confusing. Shell's new 'nitrogen enriched' fuel is marketing nonsense. One of my buddies is an ethanol hater, and only uses Shell premium, which they claim has no ethanol. I told him I'd rather have high octane ethanol in my gas, than nitrogen, which won't even support combustion.

Excellent points.

Any ethanol-blended gasoline will have a higher octane rating, but not necessarily that much. E85 gasoline is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, and that works out to about 110 octane. A 10% ethanol-blended gasoline won't have much of an increase in octane.

More importantly (contrary to popular belief), higher octane does not produce more power, it produces less due to a slower flamefront. A high compression engine requires high octane so that fuel won't spontaneously combust.

To respond to brianc9306's question, 10% ethanol wouldn't necessarily be better. If you modified the engine for higher compression, ethanol-blended fuel would help to protect the engine. A typical low or midrange compression engine would be a little harder to start, but the engine would tend to run a bit cooler.

forchetto · 06-14-2009, 03:23 PM

I don't suppose 10% ethanol makes that much difference but for the record bikes supplied for use in places like Brazil have larger idle and main jets and higher needle positions. This is because by law they use 25% ethanol blended with their fuel.

The reason for larger jets is that alcohol requires a richer air/fuel ratio. There's talk around that 10% ethanol blend (E10) needs a main jet 2 sizes larger than a straight hydrocarbon fuel.

knothead · 06-14-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprf1y

Ethanol has a lot of people angry, and I'm not sure why.
Its an excellent fuel, and has almost none of the negative qualities of methanol.
People cry about jetting, but at 10%, which is pretty much the standard, there is not enough to make a difference.
Just about all the fuel in Canada is supposed to have ethanol in it (search top tier gas), but trying to get that info from the gas companies can be a little confusing. Shell's new 'nitrogen enriched' fuel is marketing nonsense. One of my buddies is an ethanol hater, and only uses Shell premium, which they claim has no ethanol. I told him I'd rather have high octane ethanol in my gas, than nitrogen, which won't even support combustion.

Ethanol can be really hard on rubber seals and o-rings especially in older vehicles. Not to mention that, gallon per gallon, it takes more petroleum to produce ethanol than you get out of it (think about the fuel/oil for the farming, shipping, the power to process... not to mention all the petroleum based fertilizer and pesticides.).

Shell's hydrogen gasoline??? I made the mistake of filling my DR650 up with that stuff, with just a 50/50 mix in my tank and the bike is pinging, running hot and has lost power (like it's running way lean). I'm getting ready to drain it out here in a few minuets. I guess they are counting on the car's computer to compensate for the crappyness of that stuff. I'll never use that junk again!

suprf1y · 06-14-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forchetto

There's talk around that 10% ethanol blend (E10) needs a main jet 2 sizes larger than a straight hydrocarbon fuel.

And its nonsense.
At 10% its affect is insignificant.

phil · 06-14-2009, 05:56 PM

i would think that most would never know. i still wonder what we are really pouring in our tank, untill i find some way to test octane myself that is safe,easy and quick we may never. all i can deal with is facts or numbers alcohol has less btus than gas so it cannot take us as far as gas. but then alcohol burns cleaner and removes carbon so octane requirements would be less but the real question i have to ask. the weights and measures board makes sure we get a gallon for every gallon we pay for (most of the time) BUT do they regulate what we are paying for such as octane, alcohol, water and additives such as dirt, nitrogen and soap

Qingdao · 06-14-2009, 07:10 PM

My Suzuki wouldn't run on ethonol. AND I hate the smell of corn when I run my motor.

bechandler07 · 06-14-2009, 08:13 PM

i work at autozone and have been in retail auto parts biz since 99 . I know here within the past year or so we have seen a considerable increase in fuel related problems due to the increased usage of ethenol blended fuels . there is only one store around here that sells "no ethenol fuel " and the people using it seem to be getting longer usage out of the injectors , fuel filters , fuel pumps and stuff like that .

06-14-2009, 01:41 AM	#1
bechandler07 Join Date: May 2007 Location: winona , ms Posts: 3	pure gas versus 10% ethenol has anyone tried pure gas versus the 10% ethenol ? i am wondering if the bikes would run better . there is only 1 place around here that sales pure gas but if it runs better it will be worth the extra few cents
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06-14-2009, 01:47 AM	#2
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	I've moved this to misc since it doesn't specifically apply to dual sports... I haven't even seen an ethanol blend available in my area, I did however see it on my trip to Saskatchewan. The bike seems to run fine on regular gas. I'm not very educated on the subject of fuel / alternative fuels though. __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
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06-14-2009, 01:53 AM	#3
bechandler07 Join Date: May 2007 Location: winona , ms Posts: 3	no biggy my bike is a hi-bird gy200 that is why i put it in dual sport
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06-14-2009, 01:54 AM	#4
bechandler07 Join Date: May 2007 Location: winona , ms Posts: 3	fuel around here everything around here is blend . more of that tree-hugger stuff that cleans emissions but clogs fuel filters alot sooner
	0

06-14-2009, 02:13 AM	#5
AZ200cc Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Show Low Arizona Posts: 2,889	As with everything one person must try it first.......Guess that might be You......... 8O __________________ <br />2001 Suzuki DR200SE<br />1997 Suzuki RM250 YIKES<br />1995 Yamaha Breeze 125 daughters<br />1991 Honda XR80r Restored<br />maybe a 2003 Yamaha TTR90
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06-14-2009, 11:25 AM	#7
suprf1y Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SW Ontario Posts: 408	Ethanol has a lot of people angry, and I'm not sure why. Its an excellent fuel, and has almost none of the negative qualities of methanol. People cry about jetting, but at 10%, which is pretty much the standard, there is not enough to make a difference. Just about all the fuel in Canada is supposed to have ethanol in it (search top tier gas), but trying to get that info from the gas companies can be a little confusing. Shell's new 'nitrogen enriched' fuel is marketing nonsense. One of my buddies is an ethanol hater, and only uses Shell premium, which they claim has no ethanol. I told him I'd rather have high octane ethanol in my gas, than nitrogen, which won't even support combustion.
	0

06-14-2009, 11:39 AM	#8
AZ200cc Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Show Low Arizona Posts: 2,889	Anything that cuts down on oil consumption is cool by me, I'd run my bike on beer if they could make it work. __________________ <br />2001 Suzuki DR200SE<br />1997 Suzuki RM250 YIKES<br />1995 Yamaha Breeze 125 daughters<br />1991 Honda XR80r Restored<br />maybe a 2003 Yamaha TTR90
	0

06-14-2009, 03:23 PM	#10
forchetto Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gijon, Asturias,Northern Spain Posts: 396	I don't suppose 10% ethanol makes that much difference but for the record bikes supplied for use in places like Brazil have larger idle and main jets and higher needle positions. This is because by law they use 25% ethanol blended with their fuel. The reason for larger jets is that alcohol requires a richer air/fuel ratio. There's talk around that 10% ethanol blend (E10) needs a main jet 2 sizes larger than a straight hydrocarbon fuel. __________________ Jincheng Monkey JC50Q-7 (two of them) Skyteam Dax replica ST110-6 (two of them) Zongshen ZS125-43 Qingqi QM200GY-BA Super Motard Yamaha Virago XV1100 Triumph Bonneville SE Qingqi QM110GY PGO Bug rider 250 Buggy
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06-14-2009, 05:56 PM	#13
phil Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: wise va Posts: 636	i would think that most would never know. i still wonder what we are really pouring in our tank, untill i find some way to test octane myself that is safe,easy and quick we may never. all i can deal with is facts or numbers alcohol has less btus than gas so it cannot take us as far as gas. but then alcohol burns cleaner and removes carbon so octane requirements would be less but the real question i have to ask. the weights and measures board makes sure we get a gallon for every gallon we pay for (most of the time) BUT do they regulate what we are paying for such as octane, alcohol, water and additives such as dirt, nitrogen and soap __________________ halls auto l coolster, modcycles, yanmar & zongshen, dealer fired roketa,lifan and jet moto and apollo quit me who's next
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06-14-2009, 07:10 PM	#14
Qingdao Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 351	My Suzuki wouldn't run on ethonol. AND I hate the smell of corn when I run my motor. __________________ <div><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2ilH...s</a></div><br />
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06-14-2009, 08:13 PM	#15
bechandler07 Join Date: May 2007 Location: winona , ms Posts: 3	i work at autozone and have been in retail auto parts biz since 99 . I know here within the past year or so we have seen a considerable increase in fuel related problems due to the increased usage of ethenol blended fuels . there is only one store around here that sells "no ethenol fuel " and the people using it seem to be getting longer usage out of the injectors , fuel filters , fuel pumps and stuff like that .
	0