Jialing 200cc Engine Damage

TommyD · 01-28-2018, 12:43 AM

I finally got the engine pulled. The damage is much more severe than I had expected. Here are some photos. If anyone has any recommendations on how I should proceed comments/opinions are very welcome.

rjmorel · 01-28-2018, 01:51 AM

Ouchy-ka-bootles, theres got to be an interesting story behind this? How old is bike, how many miles on it? What were circumstances that led to this engine failure? rj

Megadan · 01-28-2018, 02:01 AM

Wow. With the damage that extensive you will be doing a full tear down and case split. At least that is what I would do. Those metal shavings and chunks will get into the unsealed bearings inside the motor and lodged into gear mechanisms etc. You could easily get all of the parts you need to rebuild it, but at this point you would likely be replacing a majority of the internals. If we assume the transmission side can be cleaned up and saved, then a new crank and rod, piston, cylinder, and probably the head if that piston hit the valves, which I am assuming it did given the pushrods, then you will be looking at a minimum of $250-300 in parts.

If you order the parts through this site you might get that total down, but I would tear into that motor and see just how bad the damage is. Price out the parts you will need, and see what kind of total you are looking at.

Either that or keep an eye out for a parts bike with a good engine on it, or maybe a used motor on ebay. Otherwise you are looking at around $600-700 for a complete new engine. If you are going to go that route, might as well upgrade to a CG250 and gain a little extra grunt in the process.

Megadan · 01-28-2018, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjmorel

Ouchy-ka-bootles, theres got to be an interesting story behind this? How old is bike, how many miles on it? What were circumstances that led to this engine failure? rj

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say a severe over-rev, likely on a downshift (or the bike had a CDI with no rev limiter). That is the most common cause of piston failures at the wrist pin or wrist pin failures.

TommyD · 01-28-2018, 02:56 AM

Megadan - I have a parts bike with another 163FML. Supposedly it runs good (according to the seller). When you mentioned I can order parts through "this site" what are you referring to?

TommyD · 01-28-2018, 03:01 AM

rjmorel - The guy I bought the bike from told me he allowed a friend to borrow it and it came back broke. A mechanic that he took it to for repair thought it just had thrown a push rod. I was hoping I was just in for some top-end work, but obviously this will need a complete rebuild or replacement engine.

If I could find the parts I would certainly prefer to rebuild it. Just not sure where to start.

rjmorel · 01-28-2018, 03:15 AM

Megadan " If you are going to go that route, might as well upgrade to a CG250 and gain a little extra grunt in the process. "

Will the CG250 be a direct bolt in? That would be cool.

TommyD, I'm in the same boat as you. Mine runs but is blowing blue smoke like a 2 stroke engine. I Need to tare into mine also. Not sure how to do it without messing up valve timing or how to put it back together making sure the valve train is all in sync where it is suppose to be. rj

Cravin01 · 01-28-2018, 08:36 AM

Ouch! I think I would look to a motor upgrade too. The bent rod sealed it for me and since you haven't heard it run there may be some unseen problems.

TommyD · 01-28-2018, 11:52 AM

Added Note: If you look closely at the pic of the cylinder, what you are seeing is melted steel (or whatever) sitting on the cylinder wall. It doesn't feel like anything dug into the wall.

I didn't photograph the valve area, but the valves have an even coat of carbon sitting on them and appear to be undisturbed.

A top-end kit is cheap for these on Ebay. Obviously the question is how quickly did this engine seize and how much metal actually circulated and to what extend further damage is done. Regardless, the entire engine will need disassembled and thoroughly cleaned and inspected.

I did a quick ebay search but didn't find a connecting rod and bearing. By the way, the rotating assembly moves freely with no noise.

Has anyone here attempted to straighten a bent connecting rod? I see it being done on YouTube on larger vehicles, but nothing on motorcycles.

Ariel Red Hunter · 01-28-2018, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyD

Added Note: If you look closely at the pic of the cylinder, what you are seeing is melted steel (or whatever) sitting on the cylinder wall. It doesn't feel like anything dug into the wall.

I didn't photograph the valve area, but the valves have an even coat of carbon sitting on them and appear to be undisturbed.

A top-end kit is cheap for these on Ebay. Obviously the question is how quickly did this engine seize and how much metal actually circulated and to what extend further damage is done. Regardless, the entire engine will need disassembled and thoroughly cleaned and inspected.

I did a quick ebay search but didn't find a connecting rod and bearing. By the way, the rotating assembly moves freely with no noise.

Has anyone here attempted to straighten a bent connecting rod? I see it being done on YouTube on larger vehicles, but nothing on motorcycles.

I would not risk a straightened connecting rod on a motorcycle, especially one used off-road, even part of the time. ...ARH

Megadan · 01-28-2018, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyD

Megadan - I have a parts bike with another 163FML. Supposedly it runs good (according to the seller). When you mentioned I can order parts through "this site" what are you referring to?

oops, forgot the link. http://www.motopartsmax.com/index.ph...cPath/21/tID/2

As far as the CG250 bolting up in place of the 200. As long as it is the same type, counterbalanced or non-counterbalanced, then it should bolt right in.

Megadan · 01-28-2018, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

I would not risk a straightened connecting rod on a motorcycle, especially one used off-road, even part of the time. ...ARH

I agree with that 100%.

I also think that even though some parts may look or feel fine, they should be replaced during a rebuild anyway. At a minimum I would have the crankshaft checked to make sure it is still straight and the bearing surface is not marred up from metal pieces.

Plus a new crank and rod isn't that expensive anyway.

Ariel Red Hunter · 01-28-2018, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

I agree with that 100%.

I also think that even though some parts may look or feel fine, they should be replaced during a rebuild anyway. At a minimum I would have the crankshaft checked to make sure it is still straight and the bearing surface is not marred up from metal pieces.

Plus a new crank and rod isn't that expensive anyway.

Yes, I know a new crank and rod assembly, with main bearings, is not that expensive. But I didn't want to dilute the basic message. A rod that is bent like this one is, was stressed (weakened) by the bend. Metal is stretched on one side, and slightly compressed on the other...ARH

Megadan · 01-28-2018, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Yes, I know a new crank and rod assembly, with main bearings, is not that expensive. But I didn't want to dilute the basic message. A rod that is bent like this one is, was stressed (weakened) by the bend. Metal is stretched on one side, and slightly compressed on the other...ARH

The part about the crank was not directed your way.

TommyD · 01-28-2018, 05:28 PM

Megadan and ARH - Thanks, guys. I am simply discussing options right now.

Megadan - thanks for that link. These prices are very reasonable. Their cranks show they come with the connecting rod for a very reasonable price. The entire upper-end kits are extremely reasonable too. I just need to verify the dimensions.

I'll most likely go ahead and install the Loncin 200cc from my parts bike. It's missing the kick starter but I was able to, with some force, creatively kick it by hand and it seems to have good compression. No bottom end noise, seems to easily shift through the gears etc. Supposedly, it only went to the mechanic for non-engine related issues. I'll give it a good look-over this week before I swap the engines. If something bad is found I might rebuild (or repair) one of them or buy a new engine off ebay.

I'll keep posting as this journey continues...

01-28-2018, 01:51 AM	#2
rjmorel Join Date: May 2007 Location: Warshington Posts: 928	Ouchy-ka-bootles, theres got to be an interesting story behind this? How old is bike, how many miles on it? What were circumstances that led to this engine failure? rj __________________ Live Zong, and Prosper
	0

01-28-2018, 02:01 AM	#3
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,030	Wow. With the damage that extensive you will be doing a full tear down and case split. At least that is what I would do. Those metal shavings and chunks will get into the unsealed bearings inside the motor and lodged into gear mechanisms etc. You could easily get all of the parts you need to rebuild it, but at this point you would likely be replacing a majority of the internals. If we assume the transmission side can be cleaned up and saved, then a new crank and rod, piston, cylinder, and probably the head if that piston hit the valves, which I am assuming it did given the pushrods, then you will be looking at a minimum of $250-300 in parts. If you order the parts through this site you might get that total down, but I would tear into that motor and see just how bad the damage is. Price out the parts you will need, and see what kind of total you are looking at. Either that or keep an eye out for a parts bike with a good engine on it, or maybe a used motor on ebay. Otherwise you are looking at around $600-700 for a complete new engine. If you are going to go that route, might as well upgrade to a CG250 and gain a little extra grunt in the process. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	0

01-28-2018, 03:15 AM	#7
rjmorel Join Date: May 2007 Location: Warshington Posts: 928	Megadan " If you are going to go that route, might as well upgrade to a CG250 and gain a little extra grunt in the process. " Will the CG250 be a direct bolt in? That would be cool. TommyD, I'm in the same boat as you. Mine runs but is blowing blue smoke like a 2 stroke engine. I Need to tare into mine also. Not sure how to do it without messing up valve timing or how to put it back together making sure the valve train is all in sync where it is suppose to be. rj __________________ Live Zong, and Prosper
	0

01-28-2018, 02:56 AM	#5
TommyD Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Arizona Posts: 89	Megadan - I have a parts bike with another 163FML. Supposedly it runs good (according to the seller). When you mentioned I can order parts through "this site" what are you referring to?
	0

01-28-2018, 03:01 AM	#6
TommyD Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Arizona Posts: 89	rjmorel - The guy I bought the bike from told me he allowed a friend to borrow it and it came back broke. A mechanic that he took it to for repair thought it just had thrown a push rod. I was hoping I was just in for some top-end work, but obviously this will need a complete rebuild or replacement engine. If I could find the parts I would certainly prefer to rebuild it. Just not sure where to start.
	0

01-28-2018, 08:36 AM	#8
Cravin01 Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Forney Texas Posts: 498	Ouch! I think I would look to a motor upgrade too. The bent rod sealed it for me and since you haven't heard it run there may be some unseen problems.
	0

01-28-2018, 11:52 AM	#9
TommyD Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Arizona Posts: 89	Added Note: If you look closely at the pic of the cylinder, what you are seeing is melted steel (or whatever) sitting on the cylinder wall. It doesn't feel like anything dug into the wall. I didn't photograph the valve area, but the valves have an even coat of carbon sitting on them and appear to be undisturbed. A top-end kit is cheap for these on Ebay. Obviously the question is how quickly did this engine seize and how much metal actually circulated and to what extend further damage is done. Regardless, the entire engine will need disassembled and thoroughly cleaned and inspected. I did a quick ebay search but didn't find a connecting rod and bearing. By the way, the rotating assembly moves freely with no noise. Has anyone here attempted to straighten a bent connecting rod? I see it being done on YouTube on larger vehicles, but nothing on motorcycles.
	0

01-28-2018, 05:28 PM	#15
TommyD Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Arizona Posts: 89	Megadan and ARH - Thanks, guys. I am simply discussing options right now. Megadan - thanks for that link. These prices are very reasonable. Their cranks show they come with the connecting rod for a very reasonable price. The entire upper-end kits are extremely reasonable too. I just need to verify the dimensions. I'll most likely go ahead and install the Loncin 200cc from my parts bike. It's missing the kick starter but I was able to, with some force, creatively kick it by hand and it seems to have good compression. No bottom end noise, seems to easily shift through the gears etc. Supposedly, it only went to the mechanic for non-engine related issues. I'll give it a good look-over this week before I swap the engines. If something bad is found I might rebuild (or repair) one of them or buy a new engine off ebay. I'll keep posting as this journey continues...
	0