Started consuming oil?!

Kivi · 04-23-2018, 04:34 PM

Hi,
my Zongshen 200cc pushrod 163FML engine started burning oil. On a 200-300km the level drops from MAX to below MIN mark on the screen!! I know that the engine should be inspected, but I wanted first to ask the community for the known places for these engines, if there are any, for oil burn. Should it be the valves or the piston...or any other place? It is not leaking anywhere. It's new oil in the engine, Motul 10W40, I do not see any oilish smoke from the exhaust.
Any comments welcome!

**JerryHawk250** · 04-23-2018, 04:43 PM

It doesn't sound like it's burning oil if it's not smoking. Does the bike have a filter box? Is the crank case vented to the filter box? If yes, the oil may be collecting in the filter box.

Kivi · 04-23-2018, 04:46 PM

It does have filter box but the breather hose is let to vent to atmosphere.
EDIT: Also, I do not see signs that the oil is exiting the engine through the breather hose.

Ariel Red Hunter · 04-23-2018, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kivi

Hi,
my Zongshen 200cc pushrod 163FML engine started burning oil. On a 200-300km the level drops from MAX to below MIN mark on the screen!! I know that the engine should be inspected, but I wanted first to ask the community for the known places for these engines, if there are any, for oil burn. Should it be the valves or the piston...or any other place? It is not leaking anywhere. It's new oil in the engine, Motul 10W40, I do not see any oilish smoke from the exhaust.
Any comments welcome!

Didn't you just re-build this engine a few months ago? If that was you, did you check the valve guides and replace the valve stem seals?...ARH

**JerryHawk250** · 04-24-2018, 10:08 AM

Is the plug oily? Could be valve seals too but there's usually some smoke with oil getting into the cylinder either from bad seals or rings.

Weldangrind · 04-24-2018, 11:46 AM

Please tell us more about the 200-300km of use. Is that wide open throttle for extended periods? What is the air temperature? If it's hotter than around 21C outside, I'd certainly switch to a good quality 15W40, like Shell Rotella.

Kivi · 04-24-2018, 06:30 PM

Hi,
I disassembled the engine top end.
There was a lot of black deposits on the piston, head, cylinder top edge. I dont have photos of that state.
There is a play of piston in cylinder while still with rings. More play in the axis of intake-exhaust than in the axis of the piston pin.
Rings - there is about 0.5mm of distance between piston ring ends while in cylinder.
When I mount the piston into cylinder without rings, there is 0.3mm of gap between piston and cylinder wall.
I have manual for CG125 with allowed tolerances in dimensions, but not for the ZS200GY-A.

ARH, No, I haven't touch the engine, only the transmission. Yes, I replaced exhaust valve seal because it was damaged from broken inner spring. Now that same seal is leaking but the spring is not damaged.
Jerry, plug was not oily (wet oil), but had dry deposits of oil.
One valve seal is leaking (exhaust) - part of exhaust valve was almost wet-oily.
Weldangrind, no WOT for extended period on this bike. This bike never liked high revs and WOT, lot of engine noices and unconfortable ride is at hig revs. Air temp about 25C outside. There is no Shell Rotella here. In the past 200-300km I have driven the bike on moderate conditions, with moderate throttle, moderate terrain, with just a few, short WOTs.

I do not have the good tool to take precise measures, but its the piston or the cylinder or both! I hope cylinder is OK.
I have some photos of the piston cleaned.

First pic is piston without rings.

Megadan · 04-24-2018, 06:48 PM

Oil is getting past the rings. You can burn oil without smoke, contrary to popular belief. The scuffing on the piston and cylinder walls and the carbon buildup at the piston crown are good indicators of it.

Have you run a compression test?

Kivi · 04-24-2018, 06:54 PM

Megadan, no! But, after that high oil consumption I had to open the engine to inspect...

jimwildman · 04-24-2018, 07:47 PM

Dirt get past the filter?

Are there pepper like speckles on that piston? or pitting?
Can't really tell if thats what I see in the picture, if so that would be a sign of detonation, maybey from running lean.

It's strange to see soo much sleeve wear right next to a nice cross hatch. It's like it didn't even break in, just wore out.

Ariel Red Hunter · 04-24-2018, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimwildman

Dirt get past the filter?

Are there pepper like speckles on that piston? or pitting?
Can't really tell if thats what I see in the picture, if so that would be a sign of detonation, maybey from running lean.

It's strange to see soo much sleeve wear right next to a nice cross hatch. It's like it didn't even break in, just wore out.

I've seen those marks on a piston before, caused by a partial seizure. Piston top looks like 'the mice have been at it', called detonation. Detonation raises piston temperature greatly. This causes partial seizures. Fuel mixture could be too lean, causing detonation. After you put a new piston and rings in there, grind the valves and set clearances. Clean out the centrifigal oil cleaner, and tune the carburetor, I'd go a little over-rich to help control the pre ignition problem. Then I'd look into putting an oil cooler on it...ARH

Kivi · 04-25-2018, 06:26 PM

Can You explain what marks/speckles you think of? I cleaned the piston before this photo; I used emery for the piston top side and towel for the sides, so I might made some speckles. Professional man said the piston and cylinder are not that bad, but the oil ring is totaly worn, while the compression rings are just worn a bit. He recommends new rings as a cheap fix. Also a cylinder re-bore, new piston 64mm with rings as an expensive fix. Not that expensive as how hard to find 64mm piston here (or 63.5mm either)

Also, can't find rings (separately sold) in Serbia. Nor piston.
But I found complete cylinder set for 30$ (cylinder, piston, rings, needle, gaskets, circlips), new! Silver outside colour, mine engine is brown-ish. But I am afraid for the quality for this price. Here are 3 pics from the screen capture from the website - anyone can guess the quality?

Kivi · 04-25-2018, 06:31 PM

So, for now, I put the engine back together

Here we have nice weather and I must drive the bike while waiting to get the needed parts.

timcosby · 04-25-2018, 06:42 PM

i wouldnt worry about the quality its probably from the same factory that made the original one.

**JerryHawk250** · 04-26-2018, 08:09 AM

I agree with Timcosby. They will be about the same quality no matter where you get them from.

04-23-2018, 04:34 PM	#1
Kivi Join Date: May 2017 Location: Serbia Posts: 217	Started consuming oil?! Hi, my Zongshen 200cc pushrod 163FML engine started burning oil. On a 200-300km the level drops from MAX to below MIN mark on the screen!! I know that the engine should be inspected, but I wanted first to ask the community for the known places for these engines, if there are any, for oil burn. Should it be the valves or the piston...or any other place? It is not leaking anywhere. It's new oil in the engine, Motul 10W40, I do not see any oilish smoke from the exhaust. Any comments welcome!
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04-23-2018, 04:43 PM	#2
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,574	It doesn't sound like it's burning oil if it's not smoking. Does the bike have a filter box? Is the crank case vented to the filter box? If yes, the oil may be collecting in the filter box. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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04-24-2018, 10:08 AM	#5
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,574	Is the plug oily? Could be valve seals too but there's usually some smoke with oil getting into the cylinder either from bad seals or rings. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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04-24-2018, 11:46 AM	#6
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Please tell us more about the 200-300km of use. Is that wide open throttle for extended periods? What is the air temperature? If it's hotter than around 21C outside, I'd certainly switch to a good quality 15W40, like Shell Rotella. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
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04-24-2018, 06:48 PM	#8
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,034	Oil is getting past the rings. You can burn oil without smoke, contrary to popular belief. The scuffing on the piston and cylinder walls and the carbon buildup at the piston crown are good indicators of it. Have you run a compression test? __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
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04-23-2018, 04:46 PM	#3
Kivi Join Date: May 2017 Location: Serbia Posts: 217	It does have filter box but the breather hose is let to vent to atmosphere. EDIT: Also, I do not see signs that the oil is exiting the engine through the breather hose.
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04-24-2018, 06:54 PM	#9
Kivi Join Date: May 2017 Location: Serbia Posts: 217	Megadan, no! But, after that high oil consumption I had to open the engine to inspect...
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04-24-2018, 07:47 PM	#10
jimwildman Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 237	Dirt get past the filter? Are there pepper like speckles on that piston? or pitting? Can't really tell if thats what I see in the picture, if so that would be a sign of detonation, maybey from running lean. It's strange to see soo much sleeve wear right next to a nice cross hatch. It's like it didn't even break in, just wore out.
	0

04-25-2018, 06:31 PM	#13
Kivi Join Date: May 2017 Location: Serbia Posts: 217	So, for now, I put the engine back together Here we have nice weather and I must drive the bike while waiting to get the needed parts.
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04-25-2018, 06:42 PM	#14
timcosby Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: robertsdale alabama usa Posts: 1,007	i wouldnt worry about the quality its probably from the same factory that made the original one. __________________ 1991 harley heritage softail classic 2016 hawk kaw h1 400 tripple 13' long chopper in progress 2009 johnny pag bar hog 2004 hd electra glide ultra classic shriner edition 1997 harley davidson 1200 sportster 1972 harley davidson amf sx250
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04-26-2018, 08:09 AM	#15
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,574	I agree with Timcosby. They will be about the same quality no matter where you get them from. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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