Engine break-in technique. Have you seen this?

Sray · 01-01-2019, 02:28 PM

Have you seen this write-up on breaking in New engines? What are your thoughts?

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

pete · 01-01-2019, 03:22 PM

I will go along with that....
I seen it years ago when road racing..

My mate and me both raced...we both bought Yamaha
RD400Es a week apart... Richard hammered his right from the start
where I run mine in to the manual... his bike was always quicker than mine.
on the local track his bike was a good 30/40 metres faster down the main straight
and that adds up lap after lap.. that changed after I did the top end.. then both bikes
were the same as I didn't run it in.. put it together Friday night & Saturday it was
on the track...
No one ever runs a MX bike in...hammer it from the start..

.

..

bogieboy · 01-01-2019, 03:33 PM

I did the hard breakin on my roketa when i rebuilt the top end from the previous owner glazing tue rings into the piston...

Hellkitty · 01-01-2019, 04:06 PM

These guys at MC Garage took two identical engines and did a hard break in on one and factory recommended break in on the other, tore them apart and did some dimensional comparisons. They was virtually no difference.

Megadan · 01-01-2019, 04:10 PM

This topic is always bound to start an argument, or at least mild debate.

My 2 cents.

Don't hammer on it until you have the carburetor tuned properly. Too rich or too lean at wide open throttle can be detrimental to the engine. Lean creates excessive heat. Too rich can reduce lubrication to the rings.

Give the engine a few heat cycles, or shorter run times with cool downs. Being air cooled, it can't shed excessive build up as well as a water cooled engine. I usually progressively build up my abuse on the motor in a per-ride basis.

Don't hammer on the engine until it is fully up to temp (everything is nice at hot). Ride it gently for about 10-15 minutes or so before winding it out. Failing to do so will create excessive wear.

Be extra critical of valve clearances, oil condition, etc. if taking this approach. Just because you are going to be hard on the engine in a running sense doesn't mean you should be hard on it full stop.

Sray · 01-01-2019, 04:47 PM

Anyone clarify heat cycles? I've heard several definitions. Some refer to letting the engine warm up for 15 minutes, or short drives, or reach normal operating temps- then cool overnight???

Megadan · 01-01-2019, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sray

Anyone clarify heat cycles? I've heard several definitions. Some refer to letting the engine warm up for 15 minutes, or short drives, or reach normal operating temps- then cool overnight???

Letting the motor get fully up to operating temp, and then cooling down for a period of time. It doesnt have to be a specific temp, I usually go by at least 30 minutes to an hour or long enough that I can touch any part of the engine without having to take my hand off for it being too hot. This is a good indicator that the internal friction surfaces have cooled down, and that is the most important factor.

The most important factor is to not create too much heat in those rings. Dont lug the engine. Give the engine a little time between pulls for the heat to dissipate throuch the cylinder body and oil. Be progressive with you pulls, start off with lower rev runs, then go a little more each time.

My personal method lies somewhere between a gentle break in and a hard break in. I take it easy(ish) on the engine for the first 50 to 100 miles to shake it down a bit and sort out how it runs, do a health check, then I start to get on it harder for a couple of rides, change the oil, then just ride it normally.

elkhunter338 · 01-01-2019, 07:36 PM

Hmm, I don't know. I bought a new OB 150hp 4 stroke 2 years ago. The boat mechanic had me do the break in little different than what the factory said. Run it easy/shut down (heat cycle)/ run it harder 1/2 throttle working up to 3/4 throttle/ then at the end of I think 4 hrs. run it wot for short bursts.
His recommendation was more based on not putting high loads on the bearings right away to avoid scoring the bearings.
The owners manual had a more aggressive break in procedure which he did not recommend. I worked with him for several hrs installing the OB and I think he was a knowledgeable guy.

See what CSC says for break in procedure. I do agree with no oil filter change the oil in the first 20 miles seems like a good recommendation.

roundhouse · 01-01-2019, 09:33 PM

elkhunter, I had a champion bass boat with a 175 merc on the back. they told me the same thing. But mine was 2 stroke.

Megadan · 01-01-2019, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter338

The boat mechanic had me do the break in little different than what the factory said. Run it easy/shut down (heat cycle)/ run it harder 1/2 throttle working up to 3/4 throttle/ then at the end of I think 4 hrs. run it wot for short bursts.
His recommendation was more based on not putting high loads on the bearings right away to avoid scoring the bearings.

You basically just described the general thought process behind everything I recommended, and what I do personally. These engines have roller bearings instead of shell bearings, so they are a little more forgiving in some ways, but lugging the engine is what puts a lot of strain on rod and crank bearings as well as piston rings.

Emerikol · 01-02-2019, 06:21 AM

I've mentioned this on another post somewhere on the forum, but that was many moons ago. I prefer the aviation method to breaking in a new or rebuilt engine. Put everything back together, check for valve clearances and compression, run the engine on the ground for a few minutes to check for leaks and expensive sounding noises, and then GO FLY! Running on the ground for a few minutes gets the oil everywhere it needs to be and up to proper temp, and the taxi out to the runway gives all the parts time to bed in. Since you can't do a "gentle" takeoff, you just fly the plane as you normally would. Firewall the throttle for takeoff power, and then trim it out once you're airborne and cruising along. Now I'm sure there are differences in construction materials and build quality, but the general principle remains the same. Give the engine some time to warm up and get the oil where it needs to go, and then go use it like you expect it to be used. That's my two cents, and the way I break in all my gear. If you asked twenty different people how they break in an engine, you're going to get 20 different answers all across the spectrum. I think that as long as you're not booting a new engine out of the gate before everything gets warmed up, you're likely to be ok for general use. Engines that are built to a much higher tolerance and performance level are broken in under carefully controlled environments, and that really, REALLY doesn't apply to one of these engines. In any event, Happy New Year, everyone!

PaiN · 01-02-2019, 06:52 AM

On a new modern engine, I like to do 3 "heat-cycles" for break-in.
1.Fully warm the engine 2. run about 5 miles at varying rpm's up to about 3/4 of the engine's red-line. 3. then cool down. 4. I never "lug" during break-in
I've already done 3 cycles on the Pitster, today(while testing the new seat) I'm going to give the engine a good thrashing with a couple of red-line pulls and higher rpm riding. After this I'll do an oil change with non-synthetic oil and run that until I have 500-600 miles on, then switch over to my favorite Rotella T6(synth) and on to a regular oil change schedule.

Megadan · 01-02-2019, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emerikol

Engines that are built to a much higher tolerance and performance level are broken in under carefully controlled environments, and that really, REALLY doesn't apply to one of these engines. In any event, Happy New Year, everyone!

The best and most accurate thing ever said about these little clone engines. The CG engine design in particular was made literally under the premise that it would be abused and poorly maintained in barely developed countries. Quite literally designed to be reliable when beat to death, and cheap to repair.

I am personally not too worried about the rings, cylinders, even the rod and crank on my Hawk because I can do a complete rebuild of the thing for a couple hundred bucks. Cylinder, ring, and piston kits can be purchased for less than $100 and take very little time to install.

Compare that to my VFR engine, a more high tech modern design with super tight tolerances, high compression, and far more advanced materials designed to squeeze a lot of power from a relatively small displacement. If I have to do any sort of rebuild on it, I would be spending thousands of dollars and a ton of time.

The moral of the story - break it in however you wish. Just ride and enjoy it. If you want to get the most life out of it, then be smart about it and follow the basic advice here. Dont beat on it cold, be a little methodical in your approach by ramping up the revs and throttle and checking the critical things, and don't lug the engine.

Alpha Reign · 01-02-2019, 10:44 AM

I am an aircraft mechanic. If we are talking about general aviation engines, they are pretty much a car engine with a propeller. Emerikol, you are right, after so many flight hours we tear apart the engine. Replace parts the need to be replaced no matter what. Do some non-destructive testing and rebuild or reinstall pieces that could fail, it's funny what a 13mm crack can do to a plane. Then we run it how it would if it was in the air and slap it back on the plane.

Nowadays our technology can make a part perfect to the .0001in. It can go even smaller. Maybe back in the old days break ins matter. But today's world you can just run it out of the gate. My "break in period" consisted of riding it how I wanted to. If I wanted to go fast, I nailed the throttle. If I wanted to go slow, I backed off the throttle. Doing a hard or easy break in will hardly do anything for the engine. The results are small and minute. Like MegaDan said, if your engine breaks than you can rebuild it. The engine will fail at some point, like every other machine. If you want the most life out of it, keep it super maintained. At least that's how it works in aviation.

Mudflap · 01-02-2019, 12:56 PM

The Rotax engines we use in our ultralights have a 1 hour break-in procedure ending with 5 minutes at full throttle. (Prop limits RPM to 6800). After that you go fly.

The old Vespa owners manual said "During the first 1000km or 600mi do not insist with a fully open throttle." Sounds like a good plan to me.

01-01-2019, 02:28 PM	#1
Sray Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 4	Engine break-in technique. Have you seen this? Have you seen this write-up on breaking in New engines? What are your thoughts? http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
	0

01-01-2019, 03:22 PM	#2
pete Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: ChCh , NZ Posts: 2,261	I will go along with that.... I seen it years ago when road racing.. My mate and me both raced...we both bought Yamaha RD400Es a week apart... Richard hammered his right from the start where I run mine in to the manual... his bike was always quicker than mine. on the local track his bike was a good 30/40 metres faster down the main straight and that adds up lap after lap.. that changed after I did the top end.. then both bikes were the same as I didn't run it in.. put it together Friday night & Saturday it was on the track... No one ever runs a MX bike in...hammer it from the start.. . .. __________________ 09 XT660R ... 06 TTR250 ... 80 Montesa H6 125 Enduro... 77 Montesa Cota 348 MRR "Malcom Rathnell Replica"... Current resto projects.. 81 Honda CT110... 80 Kawasaki KL250A1... 11 Husaburg TE125 enduro... "sold" along with another 31... Lifan 125 Pitbike.. "stolen" ... KIWI BIKER FORUM...... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/content.php All the best offroad rides in NZ... http://www.remotemoto.com/ E-mail... xtpete1@gmail.com
	1

01-01-2019, 04:10 PM	#5
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,016	This topic is always bound to start an argument, or at least mild debate. My 2 cents. Don't hammer on it until you have the carburetor tuned properly. Too rich or too lean at wide open throttle can be detrimental to the engine. Lean creates excessive heat. Too rich can reduce lubrication to the rings. Give the engine a few heat cycles, or shorter run times with cool downs. Being air cooled, it can't shed excessive build up as well as a water cooled engine. I usually progressively build up my abuse on the motor in a per-ride basis. Don't hammer on the engine until it is fully up to temp (everything is nice at hot). Ride it gently for about 10-15 minutes or so before winding it out. Failing to do so will create excessive wear. Be extra critical of valve clearances, oil condition, etc. if taking this approach. Just because you are going to be hard on the engine in a running sense doesn't mean you should be hard on it full stop. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	2

01-02-2019, 06:21 AM	#11
Emerikol Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Carrollton, GA Posts: 1,465	I've mentioned this on another post somewhere on the forum, but that was many moons ago. I prefer the aviation method to breaking in a new or rebuilt engine. Put everything back together, check for valve clearances and compression, run the engine on the ground for a few minutes to check for leaks and expensive sounding noises, and then GO FLY! Running on the ground for a few minutes gets the oil everywhere it needs to be and up to proper temp, and the taxi out to the runway gives all the parts time to bed in. Since you can't do a "gentle" takeoff, you just fly the plane as you normally would. Firewall the throttle for takeoff power, and then trim it out once you're airborne and cruising along. Now I'm sure there are differences in construction materials and build quality, but the general principle remains the same. Give the engine some time to warm up and get the oil where it needs to go, and then go use it like you expect it to be used. That's my two cents, and the way I break in all my gear. If you asked twenty different people how they break in an engine, you're going to get 20 different answers all across the spectrum. I think that as long as you're not booting a new engine out of the gate before everything gets warmed up, you're likely to be ok for general use. Engines that are built to a much higher tolerance and performance level are broken in under carefully controlled environments, and that really, REALLY doesn't apply to one of these engines. In any event, Happy New Year, everyone! __________________ First Rule of Aviation: -Never Pass Up The Opportunity to Pee I was struggling to get my wife's attention; I sat down on the couch and looked comfortable. That did the trick! My wife says I only have two faults. I don't listen and something else... If at first you don't succeed, try doing it the way I told you to... The Stable: 2005 Yamaha V-Star 650 - SOLD 2015 Suzuki DR 650 2015 RPS Hawk 250 - SOLD 2016 Ural Gear Up
	2

01-02-2019, 06:52 AM	#12
PaiN Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: CT Posts: 130	On a new modern engine, I like to do 3 "heat-cycles" for break-in. 1.Fully warm the engine 2. run about 5 miles at varying rpm's up to about 3/4 of the engine's red-line. 3. then cool down. 4. I never "lug" during break-in I've already done 3 cycles on the Pitster, today(while testing the new seat) I'm going to give the engine a good thrashing with a couple of red-line pulls and higher rpm riding. After this I'll do an oil change with non-synthetic oil and run that until I have 500-600 miles on, then switch over to my favorite Rotella T6(synth) and on to a regular oil change schedule. __________________ "Talking about living life is nice and all....but a motorcycle is a tool to actually do it." -me You Tube: PaiN's Rides Currently riding the hell out of my 2013 Victory Cross Country.
	3

01-01-2019, 03:33 PM	#3
bogieboy Join Date: May 2013 Location: finger lakes NY Posts: 2,045	I did the hard breakin on my roketa when i rebuilt the top end from the previous owner glazing tue rings into the piston...
	1

01-01-2019, 04:06 PM	#4
Hellkitty Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 216	These guys at MC Garage took two identical engines and did a hard break in on one and factory recommended break in on the other, tore them apart and did some dimensional comparisons. They was virtually no difference.
	2

01-01-2019, 04:47 PM	#6
Sray Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 4	Anyone clarify heat cycles? I've heard several definitions. Some refer to letting the engine warm up for 15 minutes, or short drives, or reach normal operating temps- then cool overnight???
	0

01-01-2019, 07:36 PM	#8
elkhunter338 Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Oregon Posts: 81	Hmm, I don't know. I bought a new OB 150hp 4 stroke 2 years ago. The boat mechanic had me do the break in little different than what the factory said. Run it easy/shut down (heat cycle)/ run it harder 1/2 throttle working up to 3/4 throttle/ then at the end of I think 4 hrs. run it wot for short bursts. His recommendation was more based on not putting high loads on the bearings right away to avoid scoring the bearings. The owners manual had a more aggressive break in procedure which he did not recommend. I worked with him for several hrs installing the OB and I think he was a knowledgeable guy. See what CSC says for break in procedure. I do agree with no oil filter change the oil in the first 20 miles seems like a good recommendation.
	0

01-01-2019, 09:33 PM	#9
roundhouse Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: N Texas Posts: 706	elkhunter, I had a champion bass boat with a 175 merc on the back. they told me the same thing. But mine was 2 stroke.
	0

01-02-2019, 10:44 AM	#14
Alpha Reign Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ohio Posts: 131	I am an aircraft mechanic. If we are talking about general aviation engines, they are pretty much a car engine with a propeller. Emerikol, you are right, after so many flight hours we tear apart the engine. Replace parts the need to be replaced no matter what. Do some non-destructive testing and rebuild or reinstall pieces that could fail, it's funny what a 13mm crack can do to a plane. Then we run it how it would if it was in the air and slap it back on the plane. Nowadays our technology can make a part perfect to the .0001in. It can go even smaller. Maybe back in the old days break ins matter. But today's world you can just run it out of the gate. My "break in period" consisted of riding it how I wanted to. If I wanted to go fast, I nailed the throttle. If I wanted to go slow, I backed off the throttle. Doing a hard or easy break in will hardly do anything for the engine. The results are small and minute. Like MegaDan said, if your engine breaks than you can rebuild it. The engine will fail at some point, like every other machine. If you want the most life out of it, keep it super maintained. At least that's how it works in aviation. __________________ Hawk 250 Lithium Battery, Mikuni Carb 110 main jet, Bark Busters with Mirrors, Extended Mixture Screw, 428 O-ring Chain, 17-15/40 sprockets, Digital Cluster, Cycra YZ250F Skid Plate, Oil Cooler
	2

01-02-2019, 12:56 PM	#15
Mudflap Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,872	The Rotax engines we use in our ultralights have a 1 hour break-in procedure ending with 5 minutes at full throttle. (Prop limits RPM to 6800). After that you go fly. The old Vespa owners manual said "During the first 1000km or 600mi do not insist with a fully open throttle." Sounds like a good plan to me.
	1