Question on Hawk and Magician frames

[Wigwam Jones]

Basic question - underneath the fairings and other stuff, are the base platforms (frame mainly) of the Hawk and Magician the same? I am curious and don't have a place to go look at them in person locally. I've searched photos and videos on the 'net, but nobody seems to have town one down and posted photos of the raw bike under all the 'stuff'.

Anyone have any experience that can share? Thanks!

[Adjuster]

I believe the Magician is much smaller than the Hawk in all dimensions. Compare the many YouTube videos. The Magician is small.



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[Wigwam Jones]

Originally Posted by Adjuster

I believe the Magician is much smaller than the Hawk in all dimensions. Compare the many YouTube videos. The Magician is small.
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I get that. The question is about the frame. It may be that the Magician is smaller because the frame is smaller / different. But it may also be that the Magician is smaller because of the design of the seat and tank and fairings and swingarm length, etc. What I'm really looking for is someone who has personal experience seeing both frames under all the 'stuff'.

Reason is because I am still waffling back and forth between the two bikes. I'm not interested in either one as they sit - I am just absolutely not interested in going offroad. But at the price, I am interested in what can be made of one of these - perhaps - if the frame under it all is amenable to reflecting a different vision - say that of a cafe racer style.

One might ask - why not just buy a cafe racer bike then? Answer, price. And yes, it would cost money to convert a D/S to a cafe racer. But not all at once. I can swing the price of a Hawk or Magician if I save up a bit; then I can slowly do a conversion as money and time permit and have something to ride in the meantime. I can't save up enough to buy a cafe style bike without missing a couple riding seasons. I'm too old to miss many more of them.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Wigwam Jones

I get that. The question is about the frame. It may be that the Magician is smaller because the frame is smaller / different. But it may also be that the Magician is smaller because of the design of the seat and tank and fairings and swingarm length, etc. What I'm really looking for is someone who has personal experience seeing both frames under all the 'stuff'.

Reason is because I am still waffling back and forth between the two bikes. I'm not interested in either one as they sit - I am just absolutely not interested in going offroad. But at the price, I am interested in what can be made of one of these - perhaps - if the frame under it all is amenable to reflecting a different vision - say that of a cafe racer style.

One might ask - why not just buy a cafe racer bike then? Answer, price. And yes, it would cost money to convert a D/S to a cafe racer. But not all at once. I can swing the price of a Hawk or Magician if I save up a bit; then I can slowly do a conversion as money and time permit and have something to ride in the meantime. I can't save up enough to buy a cafe style bike without missing a couple riding seasons. I'm too old to miss many more of them.

The frame of the Magician is smaller than the one on the Hawk or Enforcer (also called Hawk ll ). The Hawk frame has proven to be very tough. Never a breakage that I've ever heard of. The other two (Magician and Enforcer) have not been around long enough to have earned the same reputation. I had the same idea a few years ago about a Suzuki DR350, but have never been able to find one at less than three times the cost (used) as a Hawk. But if you are not too tall, the Magician could be made into a nice street fighter, without having to buy new wheels...ARH

[Wigwam Jones]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

The frame of the Magician is smaller than the one on the Hawk or Enforcer (also called Hawk ll ). The Hawk frame has proven to be very tough. Never a breakage that I've ever heard of. The other two (Magician and Enforcer) have not been around long enough to have earned the same reputation. I had the same idea a few years ago about a Suzuki DR350, but have never been able to find one at less than three times the cost (used) as a Hawk. But if you are not too tall, the Magician could be made into a nice street fighter, without having to buy new wheels...ARH

Excellent, thank you! What little I have been able to figure out by peering at online photos of the Magician from various angles is that the top of the frame under the gas tank appears to be two tubes in parallel to each other, rather than the traditional single tube. I could see where this could present a challenge to creating a gas tank with the proper horizontal orientation and cafe racer type look. Do you know if the Hawk frame has a single tube or a double like the Magician? Thanks again!

EDIT: I'm 5-10, 225 ish with a 31 inch inseam. About average height, above average weight. I think I'm borderline for the Magician, but you never know until you get a leg over.

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by Wigwam Jones

Excellent, thank you! What little I have been able to figure out by peering at online photos of the Magician from various angles is that the top of the frame under the gas tank appears to be two tubes in parallel to each other, rather than the traditional single tube. I could see where this could present a challenge to creating a gas tank with the proper horizontal orientation and cafe racer type look. Do you know if the Hawk frame has a single tube or a double like the Magician? Thanks again!

EDIT: I'm 5-10, 225 ish with a 31 inch inseam. About average height, above average weight. I think I'm borderline for the Magician, but you never know until you get a leg over.

The Hawk has a single tube. I'm 5-10 and can sit flat footed. I think the Hawk would be the better of the two just because of the availability of after market parts and of course the endless amount of support you would have on this site.

[Wigwam Jones]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

The Hawk has a single tube. I'm 5-10 and can sit flat footed. I think the Hawk would be the better of the two just because of the availability of after market parts and of course the endless amount of support you would have on this site.

That is outstanding, thank you! Single tube makes it seem much more likely that I'd be able to do something to it in the way of customization at a later date. Really appreciate that info!

I sure do wish there was a tech manual somewhere with photos of the bike in pieces so I could get an idea what's under all that stuff. But I've checked - can't seem to find anything. Any thoughts?

[Megadan]

I can come close...

Having seen my bike with its clothes off, I can tell you that the frame is almost identical to the TT250, There are a few small differences, such as the lower half of the downtube section seems more vertical on the TT, and a few tabs are shaped a little different. http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/TT250-OEM-FRAME-s/359.htm

The few glimpses I have seen of the Magician frame show it to be very different.

[Wigwam Jones]

Dan, that's fantastic, thank you! That is exactly what I was hoping to see. This is my 82 Yamaha SR250 without clothes on; commonly made into a bobber, and as you can see, the basic frame shape is similar.



This gives me hope that a Hawk could theoretically be repurposed in some nefarious and evil way. Maybe a quasi-scrambler or something.

[Wigwam Jones]

I think that decides it for me - I'll be buying a Hawk as soon as I've got the money ready. Thank you guys so much for the information!

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Megadan

I can come close...

Having seen my bike with its clothes off, I can tell you that the frame is almost identical to the TT250, There are a few small differences, such as the lower half of the downtube section seems more vertical on the TT,

It appears that it's more vertical (the bottom is actually a little longer) to accommodate the balance shaft casing that pokes out the front of the motor, would be my guess.

[culcune]

I cannot answer the question about frames being the same or different, but I do understand the Magician is a clone of the Yamaha Trickster that we never got in the US, whereas the Hawk is clone-ish of the Honda. Perhaps if you research the Trickster, it might shed some more information on my speculation. My guess is that the ONLY thing they share is the engine; I do know they are on the same certification with the EPA (technically off-road only bikes), but I do know that manufacturers and/or importers like to stretch out their lineup of bikes to have them certified under one EPA certificate, which I believe is the case with these two--two fairly different bikes certified with the same engine.

[david3921]

If the Chinese copied the Yamaha Tricker down to the frame (which they probably did) for the Magician then it should look like this;

https://www.oemmotorparts.com/oem5.a...-TRICK250-1_AR

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by david3921

If the Chinese copied the Yamaha Tricker down to the frame (which they probably did) for the Magician then it should look like this;

https://www.oemmotorparts.com/oem5.a...-TRICK250-1_AR

It is faitly similar to that from what I have seen.

[Wigwam Jones]

Originally Posted by david3921

If the Chinese copied the Yamaha Tricker down to the frame (which they probably did) for the Magician then it should look like this;

https://www.oemmotorparts.com/oem5.a...-TRICK250-1_AR

Thanks! That's very different alright!