Cdi ?

[China Rider 27]

Did not find a lot with a forum search so I put it to the brain trust and ask what is the scoop on CDI’s? AC or DC. Tested one on Magician and appears to be AC. Wanted to get a backup and ordered this one the other day but it is a lot smaller physically? Do all the Chinese CG 250 style Bikes take the same CDI or is it different?

https://www.amazon.com/HIAORS-Taotao...6-f96e7b0f409c

I read somewhere that any of CDI will work on a single cylinder as long as you have the right voltage AC or DC?

Performance Units? Anyone found one that worked and was worth it?

[Megadan]

I have actually just started exploring this subject with my bike as well. It is about the only thing left for me to really tinker with lol.

As far as the Hawk,Magician,Brozz, etc. Most of these bikes use the 6 pin AC "GY6" CDI boxes.

I installed this one along with doing my cam install. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is also a little smaller physically, but it works just fine. As far as any performance benefit, none that I can tell really, If there is any advance to the ignition curve, it is fairly minimal. My main interest in it was the lack of a limiter since my cam will likely make power past 8500.

I also ordered a couple of other CDI boxes as well. They are so cheap, I figured why not? I ordered one of the blue "racing" CDI boxes and then the adjustable Purple one as well. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My plan is to compare all 4. Stock, Red, Blue, Purple and decide which one works best for me. If I had to guess, the purple adjustable unit will likely be the winner, but I will keep the red and stock ones for backup.

Most of the "racing" CDI boxes like the blue ones just advance the ignition curve in the lower half of the RPM range, and often eliminate the ignition retard put in place to make for easier cold starts, thus causing hard starting issues on a cold engine.

As I said before, the adjustable box is likely the one I will end up using in the long run. It allows you to tailor the ignition advance to the lower or higher RPM ranges, and from the reading I was doing on them, still has the ignition retard in the curve for easier cold starts like a normal CDI unit.

As far as any CDI working. As long as the type of current is the same, and the wiring pinouts match, or can be made to match. If it has an AC CDI, it needs an AC CDI, same with DC for DC. AC units get their power from the stator directly while DC systems get theirs from the battery. It isn't actually that difficult to rewire a bike with AC to run DC, but you then lose the ability to run the bike with a dead battery too.

[China Rider 27]

Thanks Dan, as always a thorough analysis, that clears up the confusion and points to some resources. Interesting, to find out if one will make a difference.

[NzBrakelathes]

I’ve seen CDI coil all in 1
I’ve got a CDI I paid near $30 in China! Most all the racing CDI etc are cheap n most run cheap CDI hence a bunch fail etc
Common here is to buy a dc replacement and use it both in ac or dc bike, just hook up the extra wire to say brake switch or flasher can n job done.
A quality CDI here is near $30
Others are from $1.5 to $6 and many things in between


GY6 is a 125/150 scooter engine n I’ve heard guys use them with mixed troubles like hard to start as it fires early, etc
They’re slightly different n may or may not suit

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

I’ve seen CDI coil all in 1
I’ve got a CDI I paid near $30 in China! Most all the racing CDI etc are cheap n most run cheap CDI hence a bunch fail etc
Common here is to buy a dc replacement and use it both in ac or dc bike, just hook up the extra wire to say brake switch or flasher can n job done.
A quality CDI here is near $30
Others are from $1.5 to $6 and many things in between


GY6 is a 125/150 scooter engine n I’ve heard guys use them with mixed troubles like hard to start as it fires early, etc
They’re slightly different n may or may not suit

Well, the red one I have so far isn't a problem. We will see though. The real issue is that nobody sells the decent ones here, nor do they really try hard to differentiate between models. Any AC CDI you do run into here that has the right plug pattern is mostly labled as GY6, or just labled for everything possible.

As far as the DC CDI on the AC Bike, I assume you are talking about hooking up the Power Feed (often Black with red stripe) on the 2 prong connector to a switched power source? I had considered doing that, and I may still do so if none of these boxes impress me. There is a programmable DC CDI that actually has software to be able to edit the timing curve that I have had my eye on for a while.

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Well, the red one I have so far isn't a problem. We will see though. The real issue is that nobody sells the decent ones here, nor do they really try hard to differentiate between models. Any AC CDI you do run into here that has the right plug pattern is mostly labled as GY6, or just labled for everything possible.

As far as the DC CDI on the AC Bike, I assume you are talking about hooking up the Power Feed (often Black with red stripe) on the 2 prong connector to a switched power source? I had considered doing that, and I may still do so if none of these boxes impress me. There is a programmable DC CDI that actually has software to be able to edit the timing curve that I have had my eye on for a while.

Called universal so plugs into ac or DC but the extra wire from the side goes to black ign plus
Does away with the need to stock multiple CDI and you get the adaptors round to square or square to round etc
1 size fits all peasant motorcycles etc

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Well, the red one I have so far isn't a problem. We will see though. The real issue is that nobody sells the decent ones here, nor do they really try hard to differentiate between models. Any AC CDI you do run into here that has the right plug pattern is mostly labled as GY6, or just labled for everything possible.

As far as the DC CDI on the AC Bike, I assume you are talking about hooking up the Power Feed (often Black with red stripe) on the 2 prong connector to a switched power source? I had considered doing that, and I may still do so if none of these boxes impress me. There is a programmable DC CDI that actually has software to be able to edit the timing curve that I have had my eye on for a while.

I find that the DC CDI on my X22R performs much better than the AC CDI on my Hawk..

[China Rider 27]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Called universal so plugs into ac or DC but the extra wire from the side goes to black ign plus
Does away with the need to stock multiple CDI and you get the adaptors round to square or square to round etc
1 size fits all peasant motorcycles etc

So basically its able to use that AC crank signal to fire? But in a DC system aren't you down in the water if your battery goes down? And why does a CDI cost $30 in China? They are making them all there?

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Megadan

I have actually just started exploring this subject with my bike as well. It is about the only thing left for me to really tinker with lol.

As far as the Hawk,Magician,Brozz, etc. Most of these bikes use the 6 pin AC "GY6" CDI boxes.

You should try to get in contact with the seller that send you the Cam and get a custom made CDI. Those made here and or in Brazil are above the chinese CDI you can find on Ebay (Which are also sold here). Plus right due the COVID most of the local currency are losing value against the USD, so it will be quite cheap.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Called universal so plugs into ac or DC but the extra wire from the side goes to black ign plus
Does away with the need to stock multiple CDI and you get the adaptors round to square or square to round etc
1 size fits all peasant motorcycles etc

The question is, are these just higher end replacements, or are they a programmable/adjustable CDI?

If they are programmable/adjustable, would this be something you can provide?

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

I find that the DC CDI on my X22R performs much better than the AC CDI on my Hawk..

One of the advantages of a DC CDI is that stable input voltage. They usually run more smoothly/consistently.

I do love the AC CDI for its ability to run without a battery though.

Thankfully, I am not overly concerned about it. If I can make one of these work to my satisfaction, and I don't lose anything, then I will be happy. Honestly the only real concern is the longevity, because you see a lot pf people complain about them not lasting very long.

[Megadan]

Ok, so sitrep with two of the three CDI boxes I have tried so far. Now that My jetting is mostly figured out I figured I would test them out before heading to work.

Stock is, well, stock. Pulls the same as it did before.

Red box. There is a slight improvement in the low and middle range, and about the same up top, so it does likely have a little extra timing advance. Nothing spectacular, but it's something.

Purple Adjustable CDI. For starters, the adjustment does work. I wish there was two separate adjustments for advance and retard for low and high RPM, but I will take what I can get. I tried it with the ignition advanced favoring the higher RPM ranges a decent amount, and it did actually help pick up a little speed on the top end. I then changed it to favor more advance at the Low RPM ranges, and my bike absolutely loooooooooves it. So, long story short, this does indeed work, and it worked rather well. I will probably spend a little time trying different adjustment points to see if I can find that sweet spot where I get the incredible increase in lower and middle rpm torque, and maybe a bit extra up top.

The advance in the lower RPM actually helped stabilize my idle quite a bit, and the exhaust note is much much sharper/louder. It also does a good job of shaking the whole bike with a throttle blip when its on the side stand lol. My bike also now feels effortless pulling away at lower revs and in the mid range up to around 5-6000rpm, then it feels more like the stock CDI.

[Megadan]

Update on Adjustable CDI unit. Previously I tried the advance at the higher RPM range, and then the factory lower, and even a bit lower still. Both had positives, and negatives. I decided to adjust it to right in the center of the adjustment range to see how it would behave, and honestly, it's almost perfect right in that position for my bike. It still has some advance lower in the ignition curve, idle is still stable and strong, but it really helped wake up the bike from about 3000 RPM and on, basically in the useable and most used parts of the power curve.

The most entertaining thing is, you can hear where the ignition advance is strongest by my exhaust note lol.

[China Rider 27]

Excellent, goes on the list for future mods

[kingofqueenz]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Stock is, well, stock. Pulls the same as it did before.

Red box. There is a slight improvement in the low and middle range, and about the same up top, so it does likely have a little extra timing advance. Nothing spectacular, but it's something.
.

Hey Dan,

Which was the red box ... the Glixal?

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...m/refuge02d-20


thanks,
KOQ