different gear raios, what makes it more street and dirt?

Oengus · 04-20-2010, 01:25 AM

This is interesting that 223cc engine costs less then $300.00 in china. I changed my opinion on warranty to that of can I buy it with an extra engine at cost? A spareâ€¦LOL Can I have access to parts at cost?

I wonder how that bike is geared?

Comparatively the Zongshen GS250 has that engine and so does the Hensim250 dirt bike; are those two bikes geared differently? I would think they should be one is a street bike and one is a dirt bike.

Taking off from a stop who reaches second gear first? I am not willing to be all geared up again, as in I may be a street bike person at heart. Are these bikes all geared the sameâ€¦I am still learning.

Here is an interesting comparison:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/thr...ho-will-win/10

Then consider the Galaxy line.

SUV
PRIMARY RATIO: 3ï¼Ž333
FINAL DRIVE: 2.882

XTR
PRIMARY RATIO: 3ï¼Ž333
FINAL DRIVE: 3.154

TGR
PRIMARY RATIO: 3ï¼Ž333
FINAL DRIVE: 3.615

Would the SUV have a higher top speed and less torque up front? Off the line the TGR would do a wheelie and the SUV would just be ramping up to another gear?

Typically the manufacturers do not list ratios on the bikes.

It made me think because of a thread on mychinamoto, where a new XP200 owner was asking about his bike and why first gear for him seems a waste. What got me was if I recall it said; that the bike has under 200miles on it and he was talking about 7000 rpms? I will not or have not touched that marker yet. I passed 200 already and me and the bike are still getting used to each otherâ€¦.I am out of first before 4000, I jump fast to second. Then it was mentioned about starting off in secondâ€¦I would say you should be rolling for 2nd and if the engine struggles thatâ€™s very hard on it and like going up a steep hill in 5th.

I am still learning but think that the SUV is more street.

The XP has a 3.158 primary and a 3.00 final ratio.

Hornet · 04-23-2010, 07:37 AM

To know for sure how one motorcycle is geared compared to another you need to have the following information: primary drive ratio (this is crankshaft to clutch), transmission ratios, final drive ratio (sprockets), and tire size.

Unfortunately you only have part of the info, but we can make some "ballpark" guesses based on the info Galaxy has on their tradevv.com posts.

Did you notice Galaxy lists the top speeds?
SUV250 - Max speed: 110km/h (68.35mph)
XTR-- Countrystyle - Max speed: 105km/h (65.24mph)
TGR250 - Max speed: 98km/h (60.89mph)

According to web sources (http://www.motorcycle.com/specs/qlin...00/detail.html) (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/20...rformance.html) your XP200 has a top speed of 96.6km/h (60mph).

I used this Gearing Calculator http://woodsware.aciwebs.com/gears/gears.asp to help. I noticed the 2008 Yamaha XT250 in their database has "taller" (lower numerically) transmission gears than your XP200. Your 200cc motor probably needs those lower transmission ratios to make the most of its power.

If you got the transmission ratios for the SUV, you could use the Gearing Calculator to compare your XP200 to the SUV.

Based on what I've seen so far, I think the SUV will perform similar to your XP200, but enjoys a little higher top speed due to a more HP. Looking at pictures of the sprockets on TGR & XTR, I suspect the TGR is geared for max acceleration & tight woods riding while the XTR need to have a little more top-end speed.

On a side note- Some dedicated off-road bikes have a very low 1st gear (like a "Granny Gear") to enable extreme slow speed for technical terrain. On flatter terrain you can start off/ride slow using 2nd gear. My 1993 Honda XR100 & my 1977 Suzuki PE250B are geared like this. Just another reminder, Primary & Final Drive ratios alone do not tell the whole story.

Cal25 · 04-23-2010, 09:16 AM

I think worrying about a spare motor is not warranted. Most of us have realised that the motors themselves are pretty much bulletproof. It is the other components like electrical, body and such that tend need a little extra attention.

Buy the bike, have fun, and fix if needed.

Oengus · 04-24-2010, 10:10 PM

I am not that concerned about the engine, just wanted to point out how little they cost in china.

I can see in the top speeds what the differences are in part, its a trade off.

I have the data on the XP200 all the gears, but not on the others.

Primary reduction ratio: 3.158
Final stage reduction ratio: 3.00
First gear (transmission ratio) 3.00
2nd 1.933
3rd 1.438
4th 1.095
5th 0.913

I thought that the first gear and final stage were always the same, is that not correct?

I do not know, I try to simplify it.

If I have a taller first gear the number is lower, I wll not be good at crawling across a boulder or a tree trunk. If its shorter then the number is higher and I would be able.

Is or does the Yahmaha XT250 have a taller first then the SUV? It has been called more dual sport then dirt bike.

The XP200 compares to a DR200, the XTR250 would compare to a CRF230. That just to see if they are copied to transmision specs, the wheels are the same 18 and 21

The SUV is geared more for the street, still a dual sport though. Its first gear I would hope would be less grabby and allow smoother take offs. I want slower and more gradual for it, I would not take it over a log it could loose its exhaust. LOL

Its less of a dirt bike then the XP200, but maybe not enough to really notice in first gear on the road?

It would have less torque in first? less pull as it gains that power back in the top end.
Gearing changes takes from one end to the other.

The SUV is not for climbing over things and not really for getting out of the mud.

It would be good on a dirt track thats flat though.

If i got anything wrong correct me...i am just figuring it out as I go.

Oengus · 04-24-2010, 10:27 PM

It makes me think how fun racing on a oval track would be, a certain number of laps and then the winner!
Steep grades and jumps that bike is not for that, and the number on the side is to see who everybody is, go number five! Thatâ€™s what I thought the mud guard was for and was a number for racing on a flat trackâ€¦LOL the city streets would be my track.

The area I live has winding roads and some hills, there is an area called the Chagrin river valley that would be great for that bike. The XP is fine but sits high and has thin tires, its dicey on a fast turn. Not that I like to take turn fast or anything.

the dirt bikes have a high center of gravity and the thiner tires, they are not made to corner fast, the SUV would corner nice.

Hornet · 04-29-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oengus

I thought that the first gear and final stage were always the same, is that not correct?

First Gear and Final Drive Ratio are separate items.

Final Drive Ratio consists of the front and rear sprockets only. SportRider has a helpful article:
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0...ing/index.html

Based on the pictures in your 'SUV' thread, looks like you are following ChinaV's XTR thread on MyChinaMoto. Did you notice the gearing changes he has made? I think his riding & reporting can answer a lot of your questions about the gearing differences between the XTR & SUV.

I'll try condense ChinaV's report:

stock XTR - 3.154 Final Drive (13/42 tooth sprockets) - "Pass 75kph [46 mph] and things get painful." [Based on his off-road pics, I think he is also doing some technical off-road riding too.] "The trails around my house are very rocky, the bike (and rider) really get pounded and the XTR seems to be handling it well."

ChinaV said he has changed 3 different XTR250s Final Drive Ratio to help them on the street and has used 2 similiar combinations. 2.824 (17/48 ) or 2.882 (17/49). Note: He also converted to 428 size chain, so a 17 tooth front sprocket could fit on the countershaft.

The results- "90-100kph [55-62mph] is smooth as silk, and the bike still has plenty of power to pull at lower speeds. Top speed via GPS is 120kph [74mph]."

So, it looks like changing the XTR gearing (3.154) over to an SUV ratio (2.882) doesn't hurt your off-roading, but gives you a higher cruising speed.

Oengus · 04-29-2010, 07:10 PM

They all change out the sprockets, Iâ€™ve read about them doing it, they do it on the XP as well, they open up the exhaust change the jets on the carb and switch out the sprockets.

With all the Galaxy bikes having the same primary ratio then I would suspect all the bikes are inherently the same behind the final gear and the use of different sprockets.

I would bet that the engines transmission has the exact same specs as the Honda, that being the same gearing. But I could be wrong, there could be different transmissions on a 223cc engine. That being maybe Honda has variation and maybe the Chinese as well?

I would like to see that bike available, it look really cool naked.

naked

Dirt

Street

______________________________________________

Galaxy

Not as good as the Hondaâ€¦.but it actually looks better IMO.
It has some extras the Honda does not have.

04-20-2010, 01:25 AM	#1
Oengus Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 826	different gear raios, what makes it more street and dirt? This is interesting that 223cc engine costs less then $300.00 in china. I changed my opinion on warranty to that of can I buy it with an extra engine at cost? A spareâ€¦LOL Can I have access to parts at cost? I wonder how that bike is geared? Comparatively the Zongshen GS250 has that engine and so does the Hensim250 dirt bike; are those two bikes geared differently? I would think they should be one is a street bike and one is a dirt bike. Taking off from a stop who reaches second gear first? I am not willing to be all geared up again, as in I may be a street bike person at heart. Are these bikes all geared the sameâ€¦I am still learning. Here is an interesting comparison: http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/thr...ho-will-win/10 Then consider the Galaxy line. SUV PRIMARY RATIO: 3ï¼Ž333 FINAL DRIVE: 2.882 XTR PRIMARY RATIO: 3ï¼Ž333 FINAL DRIVE: 3.154 TGR PRIMARY RATIO: 3ï¼Ž333 FINAL DRIVE: 3.615 Would the SUV have a higher top speed and less torque up front? Off the line the TGR would do a wheelie and the SUV would just be ramping up to another gear? Typically the manufacturers do not list ratios on the bikes. It made me think because of a thread on mychinamoto, where a new XP200 owner was asking about his bike and why first gear for him seems a waste. What got me was if I recall it said; that the bike has under 200miles on it and he was talking about 7000 rpms? I will not or have not touched that marker yet. I passed 200 already and me and the bike are still getting used to each otherâ€¦.I am out of first before 4000, I jump fast to second. Then it was mentioned about starting off in secondâ€¦I would say you should be rolling for 2nd and if the engine struggles thatâ€™s very hard on it and like going up a steep hill in 5th. I am still learning but think that the SUV is more street. The XP has a 3.158 primary and a 3.00 final ratio.
	0

04-23-2010, 07:37 AM	#2
Hornet Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 7	To know for sure how one motorcycle is geared compared to another you need to have the following information: primary drive ratio (this is crankshaft to clutch), transmission ratios, final drive ratio (sprockets), and tire size. Unfortunately you only have part of the info, but we can make some "ballpark" guesses based on the info Galaxy has on their tradevv.com posts. Did you notice Galaxy lists the top speeds? SUV250 - Max speed: 110km/h (68.35mph) XTR-- Countrystyle - Max speed: 105km/h (65.24mph) TGR250 - Max speed: 98km/h (60.89mph) According to web sources (http://www.motorcycle.com/specs/qlin...00/detail.html) (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/20...rformance.html) your XP200 has a top speed of 96.6km/h (60mph). I used this Gearing Calculator http://woodsware.aciwebs.com/gears/gears.asp to help. I noticed the 2008 Yamaha XT250 in their database has "taller" (lower numerically) transmission gears than your XP200. Your 200cc motor probably needs those lower transmission ratios to make the most of its power. If you got the transmission ratios for the SUV, you could use the Gearing Calculator to compare your XP200 to the SUV. Based on what I've seen so far, I think the SUV will perform similar to your XP200, but enjoys a little higher top speed due to a more HP. Looking at pictures of the sprockets on TGR & XTR, I suspect the TGR is geared for max acceleration & tight woods riding while the XTR need to have a little more top-end speed. On a side note- Some dedicated off-road bikes have a very low 1st gear (like a "Granny Gear") to enable extreme slow speed for technical terrain. On flatter terrain you can start off/ride slow using 2nd gear. My 1993 Honda XR100 & my 1977 Suzuki PE250B are geared like this. Just another reminder, Primary & Final Drive ratios alone do not tell the whole story.
	0

04-23-2010, 09:16 AM	#3
Cal25 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Terrell and Grapevine Tx. Posts: 1,585	I think worrying about a spare motor is not warranted. Most of us have realised that the motors themselves are pretty much bulletproof. It is the other components like electrical, body and such that tend need a little extra attention. Buy the bike, have fun, and fix if needed.
	0

04-24-2010, 10:10 PM	#4
Oengus Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 826	I am not that concerned about the engine, just wanted to point out how little they cost in china. I can see in the top speeds what the differences are in part, its a trade off. I have the data on the XP200 all the gears, but not on the others. Primary reduction ratio: 3.158 Final stage reduction ratio: 3.00 First gear (transmission ratio) 3.00 2nd 1.933 3rd 1.438 4th 1.095 5th 0.913 I thought that the first gear and final stage were always the same, is that not correct? I do not know, I try to simplify it. If I have a taller first gear the number is lower, I wll not be good at crawling across a boulder or a tree trunk. If its shorter then the number is higher and I would be able. Is or does the Yahmaha XT250 have a taller first then the SUV? It has been called more dual sport then dirt bike. The XP200 compares to a DR200, the XTR250 would compare to a CRF230. That just to see if they are copied to transmision specs, the wheels are the same 18 and 21 The SUV is geared more for the street, still a dual sport though. Its first gear I would hope would be less grabby and allow smoother take offs. I want slower and more gradual for it, I would not take it over a log it could loose its exhaust. LOL Its less of a dirt bike then the XP200, but maybe not enough to really notice in first gear on the road? It would have less torque in first? less pull as it gains that power back in the top end. Gearing changes takes from one end to the other. The SUV is not for climbing over things and not really for getting out of the mud. It would be good on a dirt track thats flat though. If i got anything wrong correct me...i am just figuring it out as I go.
	0

04-24-2010, 10:27 PM	#5
Oengus Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 826	It makes me think how fun racing on a oval track would be, a certain number of laps and then the winner! Steep grades and jumps that bike is not for that, and the number on the side is to see who everybody is, go number five! Thatâ€™s what I thought the mud guard was for and was a number for racing on a flat trackâ€¦LOL the city streets would be my track. The area I live has winding roads and some hills, there is an area called the Chagrin river valley that would be great for that bike. The XP is fine but sits high and has thin tires, its dicey on a fast turn. Not that I like to take turn fast or anything. the dirt bikes have a high center of gravity and the thiner tires, they are not made to corner fast, the SUV would corner nice.
	0

04-29-2010, 07:10 PM	#7
Oengus Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 826	They all change out the sprockets, Iâ€™ve read about them doing it, they do it on the XP as well, they open up the exhaust change the jets on the carb and switch out the sprockets. With all the Galaxy bikes having the same primary ratio then I would suspect all the bikes are inherently the same behind the final gear and the use of different sprockets. I would bet that the engines transmission has the exact same specs as the Honda, that being the same gearing. But I could be wrong, there could be different transmissions on a 223cc engine. That being maybe Honda has variation and maybe the Chinese as well? I would like to see that bike available, it look really cool naked. naked Dirt Street ______________________________________________ Galaxy Not as good as the Hondaâ€¦.but it actually looks better IMO. It has some extras the Honda does not have.
	0