The Purrfect Project (Hellcat)

deadwood83 · 05-11-2020, 09:34 AM

Scoot_newb! I found you in the fb page! Hahahaha it all makes sense now.

Anyway, I have been fighting with the stupid tachometer, and getting the choke lever feel where I want. The tach is one infuriating piece of factory equipment. I have tried different ground points, different coils, different CDIs, different stators. When the RPM goes over 4.5K, the tach goes backwards, and then fluctuates. This means that it is all but invisible while riding. I have ordered a new generic dash from Amazon and have set aside riding the bike (to not rack up miles). I plan to set up the new tach with the proper mileage by setting the wheel size in the tach to as large as it will go, then mounting it on my drill press to make odometers match.
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Name: ghetto.JPG
Views: 655
Size: 23.6 KB

I really hope the new one solves the issue. I have tried grounds at the following points to see if that's the issue:

Ignition coil body/ground
Ignition coil frame mount
Engine case
Engine sidecover
Rear brake reservoir mount
Separating harness ground from body ground
Stacking harness ground and body ground

I have tried the following part swaps to see if that's the issue:

Blue "racing" CDI with Hellcat stator and ZS190 coil
Blue "racing" CDI with ZS190 stator and ZS190 coil
Blue "racing CDI with Hellcat Stator and Hellcat Coil
Blue "racing" CDI with ZS190 stator and Hellcat coil
Hellcat CDI with Hellcat stator and ZS190 coil
Hellcat CDI with ZS190 stator and ZS190 coil
Hellcat CDI with Hellcat Stator and Hellcat Coil
Hellcat CDI with ZS190 stator and Hellcat coil
Tried swapping the yellow wires for the hell of it. Nope. It's just two AC waveforms, as expected.

It all behaves the same! Gah!

Hopefully the new speedo has a proper tach reading. I have pored over the Icebear and SSR Razkull wiring diagrams. The hellcat appears to be a closer to the Fuerza. It uses the 5-pin CDI like the Fuerza, but has a diode off the ignition coil like the SSR. The diode is crimped into a two prong connector under the tank and wrapped in electrical tape. The tach signal is then measured off what looks like the difference in ground potential between battery ground and coil ground? That's what it looks like here:
http://www.ssrmotorsports.com/store/...%20Diagram.pdf
Though the icebear makes it look like the tach is measured off the high pulse ignition signal http://www.icebearatv.com/media/file/news3886Scan.pdf (page 31).

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I am no elecchicken, but the tach seems to work at lower RPM and when the bike is not under load, making me believe the wiring is OK, and it's just a different configuration parameter in the dash? I wish they hadn't locked down the Hellcat dash firmware so much so I could play with the settings. It's going to be a pain to match the odometer. Any insight would be appreciated here.

My poor All Y'all carb is junk, but not for the reasons that others have found it to be junk. Most others in the swap page have found the lack of needle adjustment frustrating (and it is slightly, but I have M2.5 shims). The part that threw me was the choke bore! The choke is bored oversize so the plunger vibrates around inside and fuel creeps up the walls and finds its way into the head! But it's not a consistent stream of fuel which could be jetted for. SO I could roll the dice on another clone, and maybe another, or just bite the bullet and get the Nibbi. I got the Nibbi.

In other news, after riding my ZS-swapped Hellcat my younger brother suddenly needed a bike to play with. I reached out to Pete at Kronik but he said that per American Lifan, all KPM200s were sold out unless a dealer had one in their own warehouse. I have asked Don @ ShopAPMC for a refund on the KPM200 I ordered on April 10 and paid for on Apr 15.

We actually found a "used" KP Mini locally. It had a whole 88 miles on it. Red/black 2019 model (I do not like the 2020 color scheme). My bro does not have any riding gear nor a moto endorsement, so I rode it back to his place. Big mistake. The Lifan is nice. The seat is significantly more comfy, the rear suspension is in an entirely different league, the throttle tube is way less janky, and that counterbalance... Hoooo boy. At least I now have a seat to study for potential foam shaping on my DOOM kitten.

I do have two major issues with the Lifan though:

It has no shifter feel. I wear a size 13 shoe and the shifter is so light that if you bump it while moving your foot beneath, it will downshift. No tactility.
The clutch is so light that it is completely devoid of all feedback. I am shocked that it doesn't slip more.

scoot newb · 05-11-2020, 05:56 PM

The cluster can behave weird if there is a bad connection.

Even if the connection is good many in the groups have a problem with clusters going blank after a certain RPM stock. The first thing everyone usually does is replace it. I figured Tao would have corrected the problem by now. This has been going on since the 2017 models.

Hellcat CDI with ZS190 stator and ZS190 coil is the combo I use and the cluster even the stock one didn't have a problem. But I had one of the ones that was km/h only.

The clone PE's usually have 5 needle clip positions but I've never seen one like yours before.

scoot newb · 05-11-2020, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadwood83

Scoot_newb! I found you in the fb page! Hahahaha it all makes sense now.

I am banned from all of the public ones except for The Clone Society.

Clone Army and ZS190 Swap Shop were okay.

Both of those groups were in denial about the shift star problem. The mods would tell others it was extremely rare. Other things too. As I went along doing my build I would find wow, well that information is wrong. The mods are also extremely biased.

I hate to say it but I've spent a lot of time looking around other groups... pitbike related. They do ZS 190 swaps too. These motors are prone to failure. The transmission is a mess and it is starting to come to light the real Daytona 190 5 speeds are too.

I have a 2nd new 190 that has never been run. In a new pit bike I got registered. Yes it has plates!

I'm hoping it is one of the better 190's or at least won't have transmission problems since the shift star keeper was applied as soon as I took it out of the box. I should have it done shortly

05-11-2020, 09:34 AM	#1
deadwood83 Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: SLC, Utah Posts: 83	Scoot_newb! I found you in the fb page! Hahahaha it all makes sense now. Anyway, I have been fighting with the stupid tachometer, and getting the choke lever feel where I want. The tach is one infuriating piece of factory equipment. I have tried different ground points, different coils, different CDIs, different stators. When the RPM goes over 4.5K, the tach goes backwards, and then fluctuates. This means that it is all but invisible while riding. I have ordered a new generic dash from Amazon and have set aside riding the bike (to not rack up miles). I plan to set up the new tach with the proper mileage by setting the wheel size in the tach to as large as it will go, then mounting it on my drill press to make odometers match. I really hope the new one solves the issue. I have tried grounds at the following points to see if that's the issue: Ignition coil body/ground Ignition coil frame mount Engine case Engine sidecover Rear brake reservoir mount Separating harness ground from body ground Stacking harness ground and body ground I have tried the following part swaps to see if that's the issue: Blue "racing" CDI with Hellcat stator and ZS190 coil Blue "racing" CDI with ZS190 stator and ZS190 coil Blue "racing CDI with Hellcat Stator and Hellcat Coil Blue "racing" CDI with ZS190 stator and Hellcat coil Hellcat CDI with Hellcat stator and ZS190 coil Hellcat CDI with ZS190 stator and ZS190 coil Hellcat CDI with Hellcat Stator and Hellcat Coil Hellcat CDI with ZS190 stator and Hellcat coil Tried swapping the yellow wires for the hell of it. Nope. It's just two AC waveforms, as expected. It all behaves the same! Gah! Hopefully the new speedo has a proper tach reading. I have pored over the Icebear and SSR Razkull wiring diagrams. The hellcat appears to be a closer to the Fuerza. It uses the 5-pin CDI like the Fuerza, but has a diode off the ignition coil like the SSR. The diode is crimped into a two prong connector under the tank and wrapped in electrical tape. The tach signal is then measured off what looks like the difference in ground potential between battery ground and coil ground? That's what it looks like here: http://www.ssrmotorsports.com/store/...%20Diagram.pdf Though the icebear makes it look like the tach is measured off the high pulse ignition signal http://www.icebearatv.com/media/file/news3886Scan.pdf (page 31). I am no elecchicken, but the tach seems to work at lower RPM and when the bike is not under load, making me believe the wiring is OK, and it's just a different configuration parameter in the dash? I wish they hadn't locked down the Hellcat dash firmware so much so I could play with the settings. It's going to be a pain to match the odometer. Any insight would be appreciated here. My poor All Y'all carb is junk, but not for the reasons that others have found it to be junk. Most others in the swap page have found the lack of needle adjustment frustrating (and it is slightly, but I have M2.5 shims). The part that threw me was the choke bore! The choke is bored oversize so the plunger vibrates around inside and fuel creeps up the walls and finds its way into the head! But it's not a consistent stream of fuel which could be jetted for. SO I could roll the dice on another clone, and maybe another, or just bite the bullet and get the Nibbi. I got the Nibbi. In other news, after riding my ZS-swapped Hellcat my younger brother suddenly needed a bike to play with. I reached out to Pete at Kronik but he said that per American Lifan, all KPM200s were sold out unless a dealer had one in their own warehouse. I have asked Don @ ShopAPMC for a refund on the KPM200 I ordered on April 10 and paid for on Apr 15. We actually found a "used" KP Mini locally. It had a whole 88 miles on it. Red/black 2019 model (I do not like the 2020 color scheme). My bro does not have any riding gear nor a moto endorsement, so I rode it back to his place. Big mistake. The Lifan is nice. The seat is significantly more comfy, the rear suspension is in an entirely different league, the throttle tube is way less janky, and that counterbalance... Hoooo boy. At least I now have a seat to study for potential foam shaping on my DOOM kitten. I do have two major issues with the Lifan though: It has no shifter feel. I wear a size 13 shoe and the shifter is so light that if you bump it while moving your foot beneath, it will downshift. No tactility. The clutch is so light that it is completely devoid of all feedback. I am shocked that it doesn't slip more.
	1

05-11-2020, 05:56 PM	#2
scoot newb Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 403	The cluster can behave weird if there is a bad connection. Even if the connection is good many in the groups have a problem with clusters going blank after a certain RPM stock. The first thing everyone usually does is replace it. I figured Tao would have corrected the problem by now. This has been going on since the 2017 models. Hellcat CDI with ZS190 stator and ZS190 coil is the combo I use and the cluster even the stock one didn't have a problem. But I had one of the ones that was km/h only. The clone PE's usually have 5 needle clip positions but I've never seen one like yours before. Last edited by scoot newb; 05-11-2020 at 09:16 PM.
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