What would you buy, ride & keep?

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Megadan

The biggest argument many 2 stroke enthusiasts tend to make against a 4 stroke is the valve maintenance, but that argument always used to make me laugh. A valve check vs. rebuilding a top end is like comparing taking a laxative to a colonoscopy.

LoL. You know how many i heard a 2T Snob say something like.
"Sir do you know how many valves i had to change this Year??? INDEED!!! 0"

"Oh i changed my oil to one that has a Strawberry scent, so when i sweep past your inferior 4t you can smell something nice"

Now that i think most of the time 2 stroke riders are a bit snobish....

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

LoL. You know how many i heard a 2T Snob say something like.
"Sir do you know how many valves i had to change this Year??? INDEED!!! 0"

"Oh i changed my oil to one that has a Strawberry scent, so when i sweep past your inferior 4t you can smell something nice"

Now that i think most of the time 2 stroke riders are a bit snobish....

They are so used to having to take the entire engine apart that they somehow attribute valve checks to rebuilding the entire cylinder head.

[PowerSlidz]

Originally Posted by megadan

a valve check vs. Rebuilding a top end is like comparing taking a laxative to a colonoscopy.

rofl

[starbound]

I have also been looking into the Orion street legal version. I learned to ride on a Yamaha XT250 and the power seems to be similar on paper. That was a great trail bike and am looking into getting another dualsport as my second Bike. Think im going to pull the trigger on it soon.

newish to this forum, any good threads for modding the Orion 250? Hell might even throw a sheepskin on the seat and some soft saddlebags and make it a mini adv.

[asheck]

I can guarantee you I can do a 2 stoke top end in less time then I can adjust my valves on my KLX. A shimmed setup can take putting the top end in and out several times before getting it right. The high performance 4 stroke stuff in modern MX bikes is nothing like these air cooled motors. 12000 plus RPM's can really beat those things up, intervals of 50 hours aren't unheard of.

[stewbrash]

I do love the Orion RXB-250 but I can't seem to find it on either the 'ON-ROAD' or the 'OFF-ROAD' EPA/FMVSS lists-so-they are a NO-GO here in Colorado. Orion claims it has a Zongshen 249cc with an overhead cam (which is what I want!) They also claim a whopping 19.5 HP with a 5 speed. I even emailed them awhile ago as to the manufacturer...with no response...so there's that! It lists for $2099 with "free home delivery."

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by asheck

I can guarantee you I can do a 2 stoke top end in less time then I can adjust my valves on my KLX. A shimmed setup can take putting the top end in and out several times before getting it right. The high performance 4 stroke stuff in modern MX bikes is nothing like these air cooled motors. 12000 plus RPM's can really beat those things up, intervals of 50 hours aren't unheard of.

I have worked on both, I know the difference. No offense, but the modern 4 stroke stuff, even with shimmed bucket setups, is no comparison. The shims don't have to be done at every check, that's the point of the name - check. To inspect and adjust or repair IF needed. Even if they do need to be done, it gets faster with experience just like a 2 stroke top end rebuild. If you can do math, you can do shims.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by stewbrash

I do love the Orion RXB-250 but I can't seem to find it on either the 'ON-ROAD' or the 'OFF-ROAD' EPA/FMVSS lists-so-they are a NO-GO here in Colorado. Orion claims it has a Zongshen 249cc with an overhead cam (which is what I want!) They also claim a whopping 19.5 HP with a 5 speed. I even emailed them awhile ago as to the manufacturer...with no response...so there's that! It lists for $2099 with "free home delivery."

The RXB250L isn't 49 State EPA legal last I knew, so much like the Hawk it can only be registered in states that don't really follow those regulations. That is it's one drawback.

[starbound]

Originally Posted by stewbrash

I do love the Orion RXB-250 but I can't seem to find it on either the 'ON-ROAD' or the 'OFF-ROAD' EPA/FMVSS lists-so-they are a NO-GO here in Colorado. Orion claims it has a Zongshen 249cc with an overhead cam (which is what I want!) They also claim a whopping 19.5 HP with a 5 speed. I even emailed them awhile ago as to the manufacturer...with no response...so there's that! It lists for $2099 with "free home delivery."

well thats a bummer. I will try and contact them also and see if they have a list or something on where it can be registered. Trying to get one registered for virginia

[asheck]

Originally Posted by Megadan

I have worked on both, I know the difference. No offense, but the modern 4 stroke stuff, even with shimmed bucket setups, is no comparison. The shims don't have to be done at every check, that's the point of the name - check. To inspect and adjust or repair IF needed. Even if they do need to be done, it gets faster with experience just like a 2 stroke top end rebuild. If you can do math, you can do shims.

Just out of curiosity what 2 strokes have you done? Maybe they were harder ones in comparison to some. Admittedly I am working with limited experience , but I had a 92 RMX250 and it's top end was about a 30 minute job, start to finish. Where on my KLX it's a 30 minute job just to get to the valves to check. I'm using those 2 examples as comparison for my "experience" I would not expect those general rules to apply to all bikes across the range.

I'm mainly playing devils advocate here, and freely admit that for most on here doing a valve check on these is really a non issue, and no comparison to a top end swap.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by asheck

Just out of curiosity what 2 strokes have you done? Maybe they were harder ones in comparison to some. Admittedly I am working with limited experience , but I had a 92 RMX250 and it's top end was about a 30 minute job, start to finish. Where on my KLX it's a 30 minute job just to get to the valves to check. I'm using those 2 examples as comparison for my "experience" I would not expect those general rules to apply to all bikes across the range.

I'm mainly playing devils advocate here, and freely admit that for most on here doing a valve check on these is really a non issue, and no comparison to a top end swap.

Main experience is the Honda CR family. Some of the Suzuki RM and GT engines, Yamaha YZ, etc.

The reason I am adamant about the 4 strokes isn't just the idea of servicing. As I said, it is valve checks, not just servicing. The valves might not need a service until the second or 3rd check, and yes if you have to wait for parts, such as shims, it can take a while, but the actual work itself isn't any more time consuming once you know how to go about it. It might feel more tedious to be sure, but time involved? nah. Admittedly, some 4 strokes are better than others. Most of Honda's 4 strokes are fairly easy to do a valve check, which is what I have the most experience with. I am, after all, a huge Honda fanboy lol.


You are correct though, service of a 2 stroke top end is easy. There is nothing there to get in the way other than head and cylinder bolts.

Plus, a big aspect of 2 stroke service that many 2 stroke enthusiasts love to leave out is seal leakage and crank/rod service/repair. In my experience dealing with both, the 4 stroke wins here time after time. Leaking seals on a 2 stroke is a huge deal in terms of power and rideability. They also punish the crap out of the rod bearings and crank, so they often need replacement much more often. Just the nature of the beast.

Like I said, I love a good 2 stroke as much as a good 4 stroke. I just try to be realistic about both.

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Plus, a big aspect of 2 stroke service that many 2 stroke enthusiasts love to leave out is seal leakage and crank/rod service/repair. In my experience dealing with both, the 4 stroke wins here time after time. Leaking seals on a 2 stroke is a huge deal in terms of power and rideability. They also punish the crap out of the rod bearings and crank, so they often need replacement much more often. Just the nature of the beast.
.

It's more common to see cracked 2T Crankcase near the crankshaft bearing than to see a cracked 4T crankcase
Plus jetting is more annoying on a 2T than in a 4T, even more if you use premix, just trying to mix at a different % will throw off jetting..

[PowerSlidz]

Sweet bikes - too bad not in the states!