Can some of you religious folk explain something... - Page 2

Jim · 05-03-2011, 02:45 AM

Yes, 60% of them did not vote for Harper. And now for the next 4 years Harper basically has free reign to further his special interests. As I said before, our electoral system is dysfunctional, however now under a Harper majority there is not much hope of any reform.

Sorry, I should say 60% of those who voted, voted against Harper. Voter turnout was again at record low.

suprf1y · 05-03-2011, 07:37 AM

Spin it however you want, all the other parties combined did not get near as many seats as the Conservatives. Canadian people have spoken.

frostbite · 05-03-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim

Yes, 60% of them did not vote for Harper.

Sorry, I should say 60% of those who voted, voted against Harper. Voter turnout was again at record low.

Interesting, I see it as 70% didn't vote for Layton and 82% didnt' vote for Iggy.

Jim · 05-03-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprf1y

Spin it however you want, all the other parties combined did not get near as many seats as the Conservatives. Canadian people have spoken.

The Conservatives have won 54.22% of the seats with only 39.62% of the votes. I'm not spinning anything. I just don't agree with our first past the post system, because it doesn't provide proportional representation. 40% of the votes isn't the majority of votes. It is the majority of seats though, yes, but that is why I said we need PR.

Weldangrind · 05-03-2011, 10:35 AM

It was a victory for NDP fans, as they've never been the OO before (at least not that I'm aware of).

katoranger · 05-03-2011, 01:42 PM

I take it that your elections were held.

suprf1y · 05-03-2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

It was a victory for NDP fans, as they've never been the OO before (at least not that I'm aware of).

It definitely was, but not on merit.
The NDP sucked up a lot of the anti-Ignatieff vote by default.
Nonetheless, a Conservative majority is a victory for Canada

Weldangrind · 05-03-2011, 05:33 PM

The anti-Ignatieff sentement was overwhelming. I'm quite surprised that the Liberals lost as badly as they did. I guess that Layton appeared to be the lesser of two evils, and Harper the lesser of three.

At the end of the day, I'm just glad that we finally got a majority Federal government. I don't want to go through this crap again next year.

Jim · 05-03-2011, 08:48 PM

As far as "the people of Canada has spoken"... Who voted for Harper? I don't have the exact number, but our majority government was elected by something like 22% of eligible voters.

Yes the NDP is opposition, but what will they be able to do with a majority sitting across from them?

Harper getting a majority is a victory for approx 22% of eligible voters. Not for Canada.

Jim · 05-03-2011, 11:24 PM

http://www.fairvote.ca/en/Canadians-...-voting-system

Weldangrind · 05-04-2011, 01:50 AM

I would certainly entertain a new voting system. For one, I'd like to have the opportunity to elect our federal leader directly, like the U.S.

I remember reading that Kim Campbell lost her seat, but the Conservatives received over two million votes in '93. None of the votes were concentrated enough in any area to win seats, so the Conservatives won only two seats. I wonder how the outcome would have differed if we didn't have a first past the post system. Not that I was a Kim Campbell fan, but it's a valid curiosity.

Jim · 05-04-2011, 03:11 AM

Well we elect our local MP's to represent us in Ottawa, and whatever group has the most members in Parliament gets to form government, as long as they have the confidence of the house... Harper is the CONS leader so he is PM... But he lies to Parliament so they no longer have support for him. His reward for that is majority, so now no more confidence votes, so he can do as he pleases. Anyways back to the point, I was going to say the idea is they represent us in Ottawa, but that is not how it works in reality, they basically represent the party to us. I think there should be proportional representation, so that the government reflects what Canadians want. All Canadians (at least those who vote). Now the only people with say is the 39% of voters (or around 22-24% of eligible voters) who elected the Conservatives. Sure there are a lot of NDP MP's, but what can they possibly do versus the Conservative majority? There was a chance for electoral reform with the NDP, but not now with the Conservative majority, which will also eliminate the per vote subsidy making it much harder for the rest of the parties.

I would also suggest that it is my opinion many people already vote for the leader. I don't vote for the local mp, I vote based on the party platform and principles.

davidsonsgccc · 05-04-2011, 09:26 AM

not picking sides because it happens here too. but all the people that dont vote should realize that they are supporting the winner if they dont vote against him.

the majority speaks weither they want to or not.

Jim · 05-05-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

At the end of the day, I'm just glad that we finally got a majority Federal government. I don't want to go through this crap again next year.

I sure hope not many people let that decide how they voted.

And back on how I don't think saying "Canadians have spoken" actually reflects the results, http://www.suite101.com/content/cana...alysis-a369402

suprf1y · 05-05-2011, 07:44 PM

The system is no different now, than it has been in the past.
You wouldn't be complaining about the system if Layton were running the country now, would you?

Look what happened to the liberals. Canadians have definitely made their point clear about them, and your party was the benefactor. Just imagine if Ignattieff wasn't so bad (quite possibly the worst liberal leader ever), your party would still be a distant third. I would think you'd be quite happy.
That, my friend, is democracy in action.
You need to get over it Jim, and accept that more Canadians wanted a Conservative government, including Stephen Harper, than any of the other parties.
You can talk about eligible voters, and percentages all you want, but if you total the seats together of ALL the other 4 parties, they still don't have as many as the Conservative party.
The Conservatives rule, and that's democracy.

I'm glad we now have a majority, and even more glad we have a Conservative majority. This is a great time for Canada.

05-03-2011, 10:35 AM	#20
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	It was a victory for NDP fans, as they've never been the OO before (at least not that I'm aware of). __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
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05-03-2011, 01:42 PM	#21
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	I take it that your elections were held. __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
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05-03-2011, 05:33 PM	#23
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	The anti-Ignatieff sentement was overwhelming. I'm quite surprised that the Liberals lost as badly as they did. I guess that Layton appeared to be the lesser of two evils, and Harper the lesser of three. At the end of the day, I'm just glad that we finally got a majority Federal government. I don't want to go through this crap again next year. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-04-2011, 01:50 AM	#26
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I would certainly entertain a new voting system. For one, I'd like to have the opportunity to elect our federal leader directly, like the U.S. I remember reading that Kim Campbell lost her seat, but the Conservatives received over two million votes in '93. None of the votes were concentrated enough in any area to win seats, so the Conservatives won only two seats. I wonder how the outcome would have differed if we didn't have a first past the post system. Not that I was a Kim Campbell fan, but it's a valid curiosity. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-04-2011, 09:26 AM	#28
davidsonsgccc Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chickamauga, Ga. Posts: 278	not picking sides because it happens here too. but all the people that dont vote should realize that they are supporting the winner if they dont vote against him. the majority speaks weither they want to or not. __________________ my help may not be the best but it is free+-Seek ye first the kingdom of GOD
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05-03-2011, 02:45 AM	#16
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	Yes, 60% of them did not vote for Harper. And now for the next 4 years Harper basically has free reign to further his special interests. As I said before, our electoral system is dysfunctional, however now under a Harper majority there is not much hope of any reform. Sorry, I should say 60% of those who voted, voted against Harper. Voter turnout was again at record low.
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05-03-2011, 07:37 AM	#17
suprf1y Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SW Ontario Posts: 408	Spin it however you want, all the other parties combined did not get near as many seats as the Conservatives. Canadian people have spoken.
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05-03-2011, 08:48 PM	#24
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	As far as "the people of Canada has spoken"... Who voted for Harper? I don't have the exact number, but our majority government was elected by something like 22% of eligible voters. Yes the NDP is opposition, but what will they be able to do with a majority sitting across from them? Harper getting a majority is a victory for approx 22% of eligible voters. Not for Canada.
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05-03-2011, 11:24 PM	#25
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	http://www.fairvote.ca/en/Canadians-...-voting-system
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05-04-2011, 03:11 AM	#27
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	Well we elect our local MP's to represent us in Ottawa, and whatever group has the most members in Parliament gets to form government, as long as they have the confidence of the house... Harper is the CONS leader so he is PM... But he lies to Parliament so they no longer have support for him. His reward for that is majority, so now no more confidence votes, so he can do as he pleases. Anyways back to the point, I was going to say the idea is they represent us in Ottawa, but that is not how it works in reality, they basically represent the party to us. I think there should be proportional representation, so that the government reflects what Canadians want. All Canadians (at least those who vote). Now the only people with say is the 39% of voters (or around 22-24% of eligible voters) who elected the Conservatives. Sure there are a lot of NDP MP's, but what can they possibly do versus the Conservative majority? There was a chance for electoral reform with the NDP, but not now with the Conservative majority, which will also eliminate the per vote subsidy making it much harder for the rest of the parties. I would also suggest that it is my opinion many people already vote for the leader. I don't vote for the local mp, I vote based on the party platform and principles.
	0

05-05-2011, 07:44 PM	#30
suprf1y Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SW Ontario Posts: 408	The system is no different now, than it has been in the past. You wouldn't be complaining about the system if Layton were running the country now, would you? Look what happened to the liberals. Canadians have definitely made their point clear about them, and your party was the benefactor. Just imagine if Ignattieff wasn't so bad (quite possibly the worst liberal leader ever), your party would still be a distant third. I would think you'd be quite happy. That, my friend, is democracy in action. You need to get over it Jim, and accept that more Canadians wanted a Conservative government, including Stephen Harper, than any of the other parties. You can talk about eligible voters, and percentages all you want, but if you total the seats together of ALL the other 4 parties, they still don't have as many as the Conservative party. The Conservatives rule, and that's democracy. I'm glad we now have a majority, and even more glad we have a Conservative majority. This is a great time for Canada.
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