Gearing the other way... for highway use - Page 2

Juanro · 11-10-2015, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpudRider

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I am interested in radial tightness, or 'spinning sense.' You stated both sprockets "fit snug to the hand in the spinning sense." Was the Suzuki sprocket as tight in this sense as the Catalano sprocket?

Ah! I see, sorry for the misunderstanding. -Both- sprockets are Catalano; just one is the Suzuki model and the other, Beta. To my eye and for how they fit, they're the same or really close. Keep in mind that Catalano is... somehow a "Budget Company" and probably their tolerances are not the best.
But I have now over 1000km with the sprocket, and (due to a rear puncture) had the chance today, while cleaning the chain and mouting the rear Wheel, to inspect the sprocket/nut/spline and it looks as good as new. No play, no metal bit, no visible wear and all snug and aligned as it should be

SpudRider · 11-10-2015, 05:17 PM

Juanro,

Thank you for the clarification, and the update.

SpudRider · 11-10-2015, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kumatae

I'm surprised that there isn't one already. I could surely benefit with a 15T sprocket with my so cal commute as well. Will be monitoring this thread...

Are you using the stock, 14T/44T sprocket combination? If so, you can purchase a smaller sprocket for the rear wheel. CSC is selling a 42T rear sprocket.

http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/Rear-S...p/csc-1100.htm

If you want an even higher sprocket ratio, you can purchase a 40T, JTR473.40 sprocket. This sprocket has the exact dimensions of the Zongshen rear sprockets, and will bolt directly onto your sprocket carrier.

http://www.amazon.com/JT-Sprockets-J...eywords=jtr473

Juanro · 11-10-2015, 05:35 PM

Just a heads up: with a 39Z rear sprocket, you are in the edge of having to remove links to the chain (and put a master link), or else you run out of space in the adjusters to remove the slack. That was tested by a fellow RXer here. I don't know with a 40. 42 should be fine.

rtking · 11-10-2015, 08:12 PM

Thanks Juanro and Spud.

I think the 15T may be the ticket if the 42T rear sprocket doesn't give me the rpm drop i'm looking for. But based on my calculations, I think the 42T is going to work best for me. While not as tall as a 15T/44T combo (which is 2% taller than the 14T/42T combo), I think it will preserve my top speed while not running past redline.

I've got the 42T rear sprocket en-route. Will advise as soon as I receive it and can install it.

SpudRider · 11-10-2015, 08:14 PM

You're welcome.

Please do keep us updated.

rtking · 11-12-2015, 05:35 PM

Just so everyone knows, CSC doesn't mess around when it comes to shipping. I put in the order for the rear sprocket on Monday, and it was waiting on my doorstep on Tuesday evening. Granted, I live 40 miles away from CSC, but still... they had it in the mail that afternoon and on its way to me. Fantastic service!

I installed the sprocket on Tuesday evening, but had to correct an issue I introduced when reinstalling the rear brake caliper. I'll describe in detail further below. But wanted to do a quick write-up of the procedure that I took... there are likely easier ways, but this is how I swapped sprockets.

Tools Needed:
1. 12mm Socket (sprocket bolts, chain adjustment bolts, brake caliper bolt)
2. 14mm Socket (other brake caliper bolt)
3. 18mm Socket (left side bolt - rear axle)
4. 19mm Socket (right side bolt - rear axle)
5. 5mm Allen Head wrench - brake caliper pin for brake pads
6. 13mm open ended wrench [or 1/2" wrench will work] - chain adjustment bolts
7. Center stand, or floor jack to raise the rear of the bike off the ground
8. Rubber or urethane mallet

Tools recommended for job: (in addition to above)
1. Torque wrench
2. Breaker bar
3 Electric impact wrench
4. Friend to hold rear brake (not that I'm calling your friend a "tool")

Removing rear wheel:
[Optional 1st step]: If you have a friend nearby that can hold the rear brake for you you can try to loosen the bolts that hold the sprocket. You'll want to be even on the bolts as any un-even torquing can/will deform the bolt face. An electric impact wrench makes this job easier.
1. Loosen the 19mm nut holding the axle. (This is easier with the bike on the ground.)
2. Loosen the chain adjustment nuts and locking nuts
3. Securely raise the bike either using the center stand or floor jack
4. Remove the 14mm bolt from the brake caliper (bolt furthest to the front of the bike)
5. Remove the 12mm bolt from the rear position of the brake caliper
6. Remove the caliper and pads and place out of way
7. Note the mounting position of the brake caliper bracket to swing arm This piece is loose, so you'll need to note the orientation of the piece for re-assembly.
8. Remove the 19mm nut on the right side of the bike. You may need to use he 18mm socket on the left side bolt-head to keep it from moving
9. Using the rubber or urethane mallet, gently tap the threaded axle on the right side of the bike so it slides to the left.
10. Once you have enough of the axle to grab onto, gently lift the rear tire to unweight the axle bolt. (A friend can help lift, or you can put a piece of wood under to help unload the weight off the axle.)
11. Pull the axle shaft out. When you do, you'll likely her the brake caliper bracket fall. Just put to the side.

Removing the Sprocket.
If you didn't remove the bolts holding the sprocket while the rear wheel was on the bike, you'll likely need some assistance via a helper or an electric impact wrench. These instructions are in the event you removed the wheel without loosening the sprocket bolts.
1. Remove the chain from the sprocket and lay aside
2. Carefully roll the rear tire out from the swing arm. Note that the bushings for the axle are held in by grease an rubber boots and can fall out. Take care not to lose or damage these bushings.
3. You can remove the sprocket and hub from the cush-drive by pulling up. It might be easier to leave the hub on the wheel if you can have a friend stand on the wheel to allow you to remove the bolts holding the sprocket. Or if you have an electric impact wrench, you can remove the bolts by yourself. If you do remove the hub, you can use a breaker bar between the fingers on the back of the hub as leverage points to hold the hub steady while removing the nuts.
4. Once you've removed the sprocket, installation is the reverse of all steps above.
5. Follow the chain tensioning guide to set the proper chain tension and ensuring the axle is aligned properly. Torque the 19mm nut on the axle to 50 lb-ft.

Special note on re-assembly - rear caliper:
1. Ensure that the rear caliper mounting plate is aligned with the square block on the bracket fits into the parallel guides on the swingarm
2. When reinstalling the caliper, start with the 14mm bolt and carefully thread as to not cross-thread
3. Make sure pads move freely once situated on the rotor, and before installing the 12mm bolt to hold the caliper down.
4. Test the caliper by pushing in/out to ensure the floating caliper actually moves. (this was my problem that prevented any effective braking.)

I haven't had a chance to ride the bike since installing the 42T rear sprocket, but will update this thread when I do.

kumatae · 12-09-2015, 02:01 PM

Checking in if you had have any updates to this. Thanks!

rtking · 12-11-2015, 12:19 AM

Work, life, family keeping me busy, so not much time to ride. I would like to get a longer freeway ride in to give my full impressions, but so far I can report:

1. I can stay in each gear slightly longer since the gearing is taller. Good for minimizing shifting through intersections / city streets
2. Quick freeway ride shows that my RPMs have dropped about 200 rpm vs. same speed with the 44T rear gear. This is what I was hoping to achieve

I haven't been able to check top speed with the new gear. Hoping to do that sometime this weekend if weather cooperates, or the following weekend. Will post back once I get that ride in!

dave92029 · 12-11-2015, 12:34 PM

Changing the gear ratio also means that you are lower in the engines torque curve.

Orange County is pretty flat, but down in San Diego, we have lots of hills and I find that I need to down shift in order to have the engine power/ torque to pull the inclines. The mighty 250cc just doesn't have the power to maintain high speed up hills, and dropping the rpm would not help this issue.

A 300cc big bore kit would probably be more helpful in solving both issues: higher speed and power to pull up hills.

I have just resigned myself to stay off the freeways and ride the back roads where the mighty 250cc appears to be more fun.

Hope this gear change works for you.

11-10-2015, 05:17 PM	#17
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	Juanro, Thank you for the clarification, and the update. __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
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11-10-2015, 08:14 PM	#21
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	You're welcome. Please do keep us updated. __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
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12-11-2015, 12:34 PM	#25
dave92029 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Escondido, CA Posts: 117	Pulling power? Changing the gear ratio also means that you are lower in the engines torque curve. Orange County is pretty flat, but down in San Diego, we have lots of hills and I find that I need to down shift in order to have the engine power/ torque to pull the inclines. The mighty 250cc just doesn't have the power to maintain high speed up hills, and dropping the rpm would not help this issue. A 300cc big bore kit would probably be more helpful in solving both issues: higher speed and power to pull up hills. I have just resigned myself to stay off the freeways and ride the back roads where the mighty 250cc appears to be more fun. Hope this gear change works for you. __________________ Dave
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11-10-2015, 05:35 PM	#19
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	Just a heads up: with a 39Z rear sprocket, you are in the edge of having to remove links to the chain (and put a master link), or else you run out of space in the adjusters to remove the slack. That was tested by a fellow RXer here. I don't know with a 40. 42 should be fine.
	0

11-10-2015, 08:12 PM	#20
rtking Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 410	Thanks Juanro and Spud. I think the 15T may be the ticket if the 42T rear sprocket doesn't give me the rpm drop i'm looking for. But based on my calculations, I think the 42T is going to work best for me. While not as tall as a 15T/44T combo (which is 2% taller than the 14T/42T combo), I think it will preserve my top speed while not running past redline. I've got the 42T rear sprocket en-route. Will advise as soon as I receive it and can install it.
	0

11-12-2015, 05:35 PM	#22
rtking Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 410	Just so everyone knows, CSC doesn't mess around when it comes to shipping. I put in the order for the rear sprocket on Monday, and it was waiting on my doorstep on Tuesday evening. Granted, I live 40 miles away from CSC, but still... they had it in the mail that afternoon and on its way to me. Fantastic service! I installed the sprocket on Tuesday evening, but had to correct an issue I introduced when reinstalling the rear brake caliper. I'll describe in detail further below. But wanted to do a quick write-up of the procedure that I took... there are likely easier ways, but this is how I swapped sprockets. Tools Needed: 1. 12mm Socket (sprocket bolts, chain adjustment bolts, brake caliper bolt) 2. 14mm Socket (other brake caliper bolt) 3. 18mm Socket (left side bolt - rear axle) 4. 19mm Socket (right side bolt - rear axle) 5. 5mm Allen Head wrench - brake caliper pin for brake pads 6. 13mm open ended wrench [or 1/2" wrench will work] - chain adjustment bolts 7. Center stand, or floor jack to raise the rear of the bike off the ground 8. Rubber or urethane mallet Tools recommended for job: (in addition to above) 1. Torque wrench 2. Breaker bar 3 Electric impact wrench 4. Friend to hold rear brake (not that I'm calling your friend a "tool") Removing rear wheel: [Optional 1st step]: If you have a friend nearby that can hold the rear brake for you you can try to loosen the bolts that hold the sprocket. You'll want to be even on the bolts as any un-even torquing can/will deform the bolt face. An electric impact wrench makes this job easier. 1. Loosen the 19mm nut holding the axle. (This is easier with the bike on the ground.) 2. Loosen the chain adjustment nuts and locking nuts 3. Securely raise the bike either using the center stand or floor jack 4. Remove the 14mm bolt from the brake caliper (bolt furthest to the front of the bike) 5. Remove the 12mm bolt from the rear position of the brake caliper 6. Remove the caliper and pads and place out of way 7. Note the mounting position of the brake caliper bracket to swing arm This piece is loose, so you'll need to note the orientation of the piece for re-assembly. 8. Remove the 19mm nut on the right side of the bike. You may need to use he 18mm socket on the left side bolt-head to keep it from moving 9. Using the rubber or urethane mallet, gently tap the threaded axle on the right side of the bike so it slides to the left. 10. Once you have enough of the axle to grab onto, gently lift the rear tire to unweight the axle bolt. (A friend can help lift, or you can put a piece of wood under to help unload the weight off the axle.) 11. Pull the axle shaft out. When you do, you'll likely her the brake caliper bracket fall. Just put to the side. Removing the Sprocket. If you didn't remove the bolts holding the sprocket while the rear wheel was on the bike, you'll likely need some assistance via a helper or an electric impact wrench. These instructions are in the event you removed the wheel without loosening the sprocket bolts. 1. Remove the chain from the sprocket and lay aside 2. Carefully roll the rear tire out from the swing arm. Note that the bushings for the axle are held in by grease an rubber boots and can fall out. Take care not to lose or damage these bushings. 3. You can remove the sprocket and hub from the cush-drive by pulling up. It might be easier to leave the hub on the wheel if you can have a friend stand on the wheel to allow you to remove the bolts holding the sprocket. Or if you have an electric impact wrench, you can remove the bolts by yourself. If you do remove the hub, you can use a breaker bar between the fingers on the back of the hub as leverage points to hold the hub steady while removing the nuts. 4. Once you've removed the sprocket, installation is the reverse of all steps above. 5. Follow the chain tensioning guide to set the proper chain tension and ensuring the axle is aligned properly. Torque the 19mm nut on the axle to 50 lb-ft. Special note on re-assembly - rear caliper: 1. Ensure that the rear caliper mounting plate is aligned with the square block on the bracket fits into the parallel guides on the swingarm 2. When reinstalling the caliper, start with the 14mm bolt and carefully thread as to not cross-thread 3. Make sure pads move freely once situated on the rotor, and before installing the 12mm bolt to hold the caliper down. 4. Test the caliper by pushing in/out to ensure the floating caliper actually moves. (this was my problem that prevented any effective braking.) I haven't had a chance to ride the bike since installing the 42T rear sprocket, but will update this thread when I do.
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12-09-2015, 02:01 PM	#23
kumatae Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 51	Checking in if you had have any updates to this. Thanks!
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12-11-2015, 12:19 AM	#24
rtking Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 410	Work, life, family keeping me busy, so not much time to ride. I would like to get a longer freeway ride in to give my full impressions, but so far I can report: 1. I can stay in each gear slightly longer since the gearing is taller. Good for minimizing shifting through intersections / city streets 2. Quick freeway ride shows that my RPMs have dropped about 200 rpm vs. same speed with the 44T rear gear. This is what I was hoping to achieve I haven't been able to check top speed with the new gear. Hoping to do that sometime this weekend if weather cooperates, or the following weekend. Will post back once I get that ride in!
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