Fuel Injection for Zongshen 200 CG

[Jibberwobble]

My intension was to order the non counter balance version, the ad only shows the counter balance even though they list an option without it. I had to pinch the picture of the 'non' version from another sellers ad.

Unfortunately though today I have received information that the 'bright moon' version I was trying to buy is not available.

So now I'm back at square one again. I need to choose another sub 200cc engine. As said there are others selling what looks like the same engine and theres humabeings links to explore as well. Would love to know if this version I was try to buy was actually uprated and by who? Or is it just BS?

Any recommendations greatfully received..........

[Jibberwobble]

Well I've been surching around endlessly trying to find engines with quoted specs. They all seem much of a muchness! The CB engines seemed to be no better than the CG's on average. The exception being these suzuki/honda hybrid things. I talked with Mr Yang from FAI, he told me to go for a genuine Zongshen or Loncin which are superior quality to many other makes, he then pointed me at a genuine zong cg and explained that the Chinese cb engines do not offer the expected gains from pushrod layout because they are cammed/ported for chugging heavy loads away from constant stopping and at that they are never as good as a cg down low. Interesting comments.

I was all set on a water cooled zong cg from the same seller as the a/c one Mr yang showed me (it's a bit more pokey) then I stumbled upon another seller with one of these upgraded Haoyue/ty/suzuki/honda lumps. I don't know if they are the real deal or just bog standard ones though.

What do you make of this..........
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=21943948574

[Jibberwobble]

Oh yes forgot to say, in humanbeings link to the forum thread above I can't quite work out what they are saying and what they are laughing at. Can anyone translate slang?

[Weldangrind]

The counterbalancer is a parasitic power loss; are you sure you want that for racing?

[Weldangrind]

Originally Posted by Jibberwobble

Oh yes forgot to say, in humanbeings link to the forum thread above I can't quite work out what they are saying and what they are laughing at. Can anyone translate slang?

Nary a clue, but it does seem like they are acknowledging the Suzi/CG hybrid theory.

[Jibberwobble]

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

The counterbalancer is a parasitic power loss; are you sure you want that for racing?

Most of the ads for these engines show the counterbalance in the pics but also do a 'non' version which is the one I would order. They say its in stock @CNY2180 but cant supply a flywheel to Mr Yang. They reckon the motor is 16KW which seems very far fetched. *There's another seller with similar goods and quoting 16KW for the 230. http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...0-7ce0d892222a I think it quite likely that these sellers are full of shit but I just cant tell? It would only need to be making 12KW+ to be up on the standard China engines and if it lasted a year or two that would be fine. Mr Yang is still saying to go for the Zong and is suspicious of the Haoyue it would seem. He is concerned about the quality and durability.

*EDIT Both those motors are the same seller which means he is contradicting himself about the 16KW which is being applied to both 190 and 230 engines.

Being sensible I feel the W/C Zong is the safe option and Mr yang would have a flywheel sorted for it and shipped before the engine arrived here.

I dont mind taking the odd risk though so I'm still tempted by the Haoyue (knowing that it will potentially be a disaster).

What to do??????

Stupid me is sitting here wanting to buy both Doh I am known for stupidity though so...........

[Weldangrind]

As an enabler, I say buy both!

[Jibberwobble]

Been counting my beans and doing my sums but I cant see any way of sensibly owning both and still buying the rest of the stuff I need.

I have told Mr Yang to go get a flywheel for a new Zong water cooled..... quality, durability and all that, however Now I'm thinking that I dont really need a lot of durability do I? I mean, I'm doing about 500 miles per year, it would take two years just to run it in!!!!!! which reminds me that I need to get round that problem too.

[Jibberwobble]

Ho Hum, I'm less sure than ever that I'm going in the right direction right now. Mr yang has contacted the seller of the genuine Zongshen w/c CG200. All in stock inc flywheels yay, but, I asked him to find out at the same time if this motor is AC or DC, answer AC... boooo!! Quite a few of the china motors are DC now as per the EFI system so thats a shame. He then goes on to say

"they said the ignition is AC but if you use DC CDI, what you need to do is not connect the ignition coil output, which also we generally did. The magneto has 11 electricity generating coils + 1 ignition coil. That is enough for electricity generation for the EFI system"

So now he's saying I dont need to convert AC to DC, just not connect 1 wire to 1 coil on the stator but use the rest or have I got that wrong do you think? Am I then using 11 coils to generate power which will be sufficient to charge the battery in order to run the EFI, fuel pump and starter motor, or is he mentioning "enough for electricty generation for the EFI" because thats all its going to be enough for and nothing else??

I dont think I fully understand how the magneto works but anyway the DC one I ordered for the air cooled Zong should fit this new one I reckon.

I think at the moment I'm resigned to ordering the water cooled Zong and will forever be left wondering what if the suzuki type clone would have worked out like given that its put together by some companies in a motoX spec in a higher state of tune (allegedly). I have a feeling the EFI may have struggled to feed an engine with 10 or 20% more power anyway.

[Weldangrind]

Perhaps the Suzuki hybrid will be in your future, some day. You'll then have the answer to your burning questions.

I would certainly just install a DC stator, and Humanbeing is likely the most knowledgeable about that.

[Jibberwobble]

Yes indeedy I reckon just do a proper conversion to DC. Will check I've got that correctly worked out before I start.

I'm just going to order the w/c zong and get this moving. Like you say weld I can revisit the other engines some other time.

[recracer]

The stator and timing pickup output a/c wave forms . The stator output goes to a voltage rectifier , to transform it to dc voltage . This is used to feed the battery and dc accessories . The timing pickup will feed the ac waveform to the fuel injection controller , the fuel injection controller will output a dc signal to the dc CDI unit . Hope this helps . Here is a picture of a typical china bike regulator /rectifier . http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Wire-12V-D...35e186&vxp=mtr

[Jibberwobble]

Hi Ron thanks, I'm getting most of that!

Getting this all sorted remotely has taken some time, I've had Mr Yang, TBtrends and sellers of stuff all liaising with each other. Eventually all the parts including a new zong water cooled 200 and the EFI system made it to TB trends and they sent it all out in two parcels.

Yesterday was Christmas All the parts were ok inc the EFI, however, the engine has been damaged, poorly packaged and thrown up and down vans and cargo holds by the looks of it. Rocker cover is cracked and exhaust stud bent, oil everywhere Now awaiting responce......







Will come back with more pics of the EFI when they've uploaded

[SpudRider]

I'm sorry to head about the damaged engine.

[Weldangrind]

At least those are relatively minor repair issues.