Thoughts on Government run healthcare. Your Opinion. - Page 3

katoranger · 01-13-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidsonsgccc

reading some of you canadian members remarks on healthcare does put me more at ease. up until i started reading this thread the only thing i have read has been negative about people getting denied cancer drugs and waiting along time for critical scans and things. unfortunately alot of the info that is givin to us by our media is politically driven that makes it hard to know thetruth from the crap.

shawn

Some of my concerns are easing too.

katoranger · 01-13-2010, 05:29 PM

I think this is a well done article. He being a Canadian living in the US. He likes the Canadian system better, but I think he really gives an unbiased opinion.

http://open.salon.com/blog/kanuk/200...s_us_-_part_ii

I like what he says about France. That is my view. Everyone is covered. If you want to pay for premium service that is your choice. I would probably be willing to pay if needed.

My cost for my daughter's heart surgery was nearly $20K. This is where I think we lack. I have good insurance compared to alot of people. Fortunately one of the state of GAs programs picked up the tab. Getting that assistance was not easy. We had to jump through hoops 3-4 times and it finally took a call from my state rep.) She is only coverered for one year then we have to start over. She probably won't need it then. My insurance will be adequate for normal needs.

I don't look down on anyone who uses government programs legitamately. Its the ones who abuse them.

I believe the state of Massachussetts has implemented a program the requires everyone to be insured. Low income people get supplements to pay the premiums. I like that idea too. Still privatized, but everyone gets covered. Still not perfect either.

Allen

VinceDrake · 01-13-2010, 06:37 PM

Personally, the system has always worked well for me and my family, all things being equal-- But there is a couple of things I'd like to point out, especially with regards to wait time and bumping.

Given that there are 36 million of us across country, and X number of doctors, nurses, triage staff, Equip Techs, MRI machines, Gas spetrometres, Mac "Genesis"Scan tools, and so on, wait lists and bumping are always going to a reality. Even in a private MRI clinic, You wnat your machine and your techs running 24/7 before you build/staff another unit-- So I don't really understand where private health care is going to dramatically reduce wait times, and schedule bumps.

That being said, I think one of the largest problems with Our system as it stands is that it's free.

Something given to you for nothing has no value. And the levels of abuse are pretty staggering. If you hurt your shoulder playing "WII," wait until the morning, and see your GP-- Don't go to the ER. If you are arrested for Drunk and disorderly-- Don't fake a head injury, take your lumps, and see your GP in the morning, don't make the cops drag you to the ER.

Maybe I'm just a jerk, but at least as far as the ER goes, I'm sure my wife wouldn't have had to sit there, with her head leaking blood for 6 hours, if the WII boy, and the drunk(s) would have just gone the heck home...

--Vince

suprf1y · 01-13-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Medical specialists, however, are another matter. In Quebec and Ontario, the wait times can be measured in months, depending on the specialist, with four to six months being usual.

I'm curious if this is the experience of the other Canadians on the forum?
It certainly hasn't been mine. Typically, waiting to see a specialist is usually a few weeks to a month, and if you're not happy with that, you can always request something sooner.

Quote:

My wife was speaking with a neighbor last week, who said that it took her over two years to convince her GP to do a particular test that it turned out she desperately needed. Apparently the GP just thought it wasn't necessary, and that was that.)

That's a bad doctor, and a dumb patient, and has nothing to do with the system.
My family doctor told me that my knee was fine, even though I knew it wasn't. I saw another doc, who agreed with me, and referred me to a specialist. I stopped seeing the first doctor. The one I have now is great. He asks me what I think, and if there is anything, or any tests that I think need to be done. He also works 6 days a week, and late, 2 nights a week.

katoranger · 01-13-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprf1y

Quote:

Medical specialists, however, are another matter. In Quebec and Ontario, the wait times can be measured in months, depending on the specialist, with four to six months being usual.

I'm curious if this is the experience of the other Canadians on the forum?
It certainly hasn't been mine. Typically, waiting to see a specialist is usually a few weeks to a month, and if you're not happy with that, you can always request something sooner.

Quote:

My wife was speaking with a neighbor last week, who said that it took her over two years to convince her GP to do a particular test that it turned out she desperately needed. Apparently the GP just thought it wasn't necessary, and that was that.)

That's a bad doctor, and a dumb patient, and has nothing to do with the system.
My family doctor told me that my knee was fine, even though I knew it wasn't. I saw another doc, who agreed with me, and referred me to a specialist. I stopped seeing the first doctor. The one I have now is great. He asks me what I think, and if there is anything, or any tests that I think need to be done. He also works 6 days a week, and late, 2 nights a week.

That may have been his experience 10 years ago.

It sounds like improvements have been made. I really think a co-pay is a good idea. It wouldn't have to be much.

It sounds like a did find a good doctor.

Weldangrind · 01-13-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinceDrake

That being said, I think one of the largest problems with Our system as it stands is that it's free.

Excellent points Vince. Are you saying that there is no healthcare premium in Saskatchewan? We're paying $1368.00 per year for our family (cheap in the big picture, I know).

VinceDrake · 01-14-2010, 12:50 AM

Nope, nothing. Unless you count the $12.50 a pack cigarettes...

**BUT!** that being said, I would happily pay a few bucks to see a doctor/Nurse/Medical Techinician. I'm not talking about huge money, just a few bucks, as long as it isn't **Free**

To respond to Mr. Fly's question, overall my experience with the medical system has overall been pretty good. (But I usually wait until I'm bleeding profusely, or dead.) ER wait times have been pretty special a couple of times, but that's life.

That being said, most of want I do is muscular damage, joints, etc. and I find a Message Therapist* or Chiropractor more effective than a trip to the doc.

*Not the "happy ending" type.

--Vince

TurboT · 01-14-2010, 01:42 AM

I know in BC sometimes specialists can be a bit of a wait to get the first appointment...and it all depends on the area of specialty. I think for knees and backs it's not that bad but if it's something a little more 'obscure' then you might need to wait a bit.

I do know our friends daughter wrecked her knee playing softball. (She is 14) She was told she'd have to wait 6 months for an MRI through the system, but they could pay $700 and have a private clinic do it right away. They bucked up, found the torn MCL, and surgery was booked and done within a week. I also know there is some form of procedure to go through to get the money back. I haven't heard from them about whether they were successful. The wait times seem more for the tests than the actual surgery.

Dad was admitted to hospital last night and is in a big private room in the ICU ward. It's the biggest, nicest damn hospital room I've ever seen with top of the line equipment and staff. Now, it's probably the newest hospital in our province, but there was virtually no wait for emergency care (arrived by ambulance) in one of the busiest hospitals east of the major center of Vancouver.

It seems government run healthcare is working in Canada.

katoranger · 01-14-2010, 07:47 AM

I really think there is a happy medium between the two systems. If they limit doctor pay I think we will lose alot of doctors in the US. They are use to a lifestyle and if they get capped they will go elsewhere.

Interesting on the pay now for service on the MRI. I just called up and scheduled it the same day. Twice.

Cigarettes really cost $12.50 a pack? 8O Glad I don't smoke. I wouldn't be able to eat.

suprf1y · 01-14-2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katoranger

I really think there is a happy medium between the two systems. If they limit doctor pay I think we will lose alot of doctors in the US. They are use to a lifestyle and if they get capped they will go elsewhere.

Interesting on the pay now for service on the MRI. I just called up and scheduled it the same day. Twice.

Cigarettes really cost $12.50 a pack? 8O Glad I don't smoke. I wouldn't be able to eat.

You keep saying that, but IMO, as long as the insurance companies have any involvement, you'll still have the second rate system that you have now.
I also think a $5 payment would be OK. It would prevent some of the people who think it's free from abusing it.

The huge majority of doctors don't leave Canada, and if yours were to leave the states, where would they go to make more money? It's not like they're limited to making a low wage here, they're prevented from abusing the system, because that's what was happening.
I think the wait for my MRI (afew months ago) was 2 weeks, but there certainly was no rush. It was a follow up. If I needed it, I would have gotten it right away. It seems that, at 47, I need a knee replacement. I think I'll wait a while.
I live beside an Indian reserve. Smokes are $7-$30/carton.
Governments have raised taxes on cigarettes to the point that many people are either quitting, or smuggling

Last time I was in NY state, they were doing the same thing.

katoranger · 01-14-2010, 09:14 AM

They are doing that with cigarettes in alot of states.

There is no place for doctors to go is right. I just look at it as a capitalist. The government is restricting how much somebody can earn. Now the system could work without the caps on salary too. Also the doctor is restricted to how much they can charge.

I am not saying that the Canadian system in not better, but in the US that would mean alot of big changes for us.

Millions of people are employed by insurance companies. Would they lose their jobs? Not a good time for that.

I know that according the the big health bill that people are suppose to be able to keep their doctors and insurance that already have.

So from what I am really hearing is that most Canadians would give thier healthcare a 9 out of 10. Wait times being a minor inconvience as the biggest flaw.

suprf1y · 01-14-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katoranger

So from what I am really hearing is that most Canadians would give thier healthcare a 9 out of 10. Wait times being a minor inconvience as the biggest flaw.

That's probably a fair assessment.

katoranger · 01-14-2010, 10:49 AM

You guys are giving me the impression that its not as bad as it sounds.

I still think that what we have in the US is not as bad as people think either.

What I think holds us up is the the employer based system that "locks" alot of people into staying with an employer even though they want to leave. Especially if they have a pre-existing condition.

This is not a problem in Canada I can see.

Thanks you for your opinions. I still don't want to see us make a rash decision in the US, but I think we do need changes.

Superfly I really appreciate your input.

Allen

VinceDrake · 01-14-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katoranger

I really think there is a happy medium between the two systems. If they limit doctor pay I think we will lose alot of doctors in the US. They are use to a lifestyle and if they get capped they will go elsewhere.

Interesting on the pay now for service on the MRI. I just called up and scheduled it the same day. Twice.

Cigarettes really cost $12.50 a pack? 8O Glad I don't smoke. I wouldn't be able to eat.

We've had that option (Pay for it now, get it now) for years, just the pols don't talk about it. If you want something right now, drive across the line and get it in the states.

My only fear with a double-sided system, is it doesn't seem to work well where it's been applied. (Eg. Germany) Those with the money get it now, and those who don't die.

Yup Smokes do cost $12.50 around here at least. There's some cheaper ones out there, but they're usually yucky. I just only eat 3 times a week. Seems to work okay...

--Vince

katoranger · 01-14-2010, 12:38 PM

Well, with my MRIs I my insurance paid all but $100 of it. That was my share and what I had to pay upfrent at time of service. Neither were life or death situations.

People needing emergency care get it whether they can pay or not. It also makes no difference at the ER how long you wait if your a paying customer or not.

01-13-2010, 05:29 PM	#32
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	I think this is a well done article. He being a Canadian living in the US. He likes the Canadian system better, but I think he really gives an unbiased opinion. http://open.salon.com/blog/kanuk/200...s_us_-_part_ii I like what he says about France. That is my view. Everyone is covered. If you want to pay for premium service that is your choice. I would probably be willing to pay if needed. My cost for my daughter's heart surgery was nearly $20K. This is where I think we lack. I have good insurance compared to alot of people. Fortunately one of the state of GAs programs picked up the tab. Getting that assistance was not easy. We had to jump through hoops 3-4 times and it finally took a call from my state rep.) She is only coverered for one year then we have to start over. She probably won't need it then. My insurance will be adequate for normal needs. I don't look down on anyone who uses government programs legitamately. Its the ones who abuse them. I believe the state of Massachussetts has implemented a program the requires everyone to be insured. Low income people get supplements to pay the premiums. I like that idea too. Still privatized, but everyone gets covered. Still not perfect either. Allen __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
	0

01-13-2010, 06:37 PM	#33
VinceDrake Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Saskatchewan Posts: 491	Personally, the system has always worked well for me and my family, all things being equal-- But there is a couple of things I'd like to point out, especially with regards to wait time and bumping. Given that there are 36 million of us across country, and X number of doctors, nurses, triage staff, Equip Techs, MRI machines, Gas spetrometres, Mac "Genesis"Scan tools, and so on, wait lists and bumping are always going to a reality. Even in a private MRI clinic, You wnat your machine and your techs running 24/7 before you build/staff another unit-- So I don't really understand where private health care is going to dramatically reduce wait times, and schedule bumps. That being said, I think one of the largest problems with Our system as it stands is that it's free. Something given to you for nothing has no value. And the levels of abuse are pretty staggering. If you hurt your shoulder playing "WII," wait until the morning, and see your GP-- Don't go to the ER. If you are arrested for Drunk and disorderly-- Don't fake a head injury, take your lumps, and see your GP in the morning, don't make the cops drag you to the ER. Maybe I'm just a jerk, but at least as far as the ER goes, I'm sure my wife wouldn't have had to sit there, with her head leaking blood for 6 hours, if the WII boy, and the drunk(s) would have just gone the heck home... --Vince __________________ "Sometimes it is better to say nothing, and let people think you're an idiot, than to open your mouth and prove it."
	0

01-14-2010, 12:50 AM	#37
VinceDrake Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Saskatchewan Posts: 491	Nope, nothing. Unless you count the $12.50 a pack cigarettes... BUT! that being said, I would happily pay a few bucks to see a doctor/Nurse/Medical Techinician. I'm not talking about huge money, just a few bucks, as long as it isn't Free To respond to Mr. Fly's question, overall my experience with the medical system has overall been pretty good. (But I usually wait until I'm bleeding profusely, or dead.) ER wait times have been pretty special a couple of times, but that's life. That being said, most of want I do is muscular damage, joints, etc. and I find a Message Therapist* or Chiropractor more effective than a trip to the doc. *Not the "happy ending" type. --Vince __________________ "Sometimes it is better to say nothing, and let people think you're an idiot, than to open your mouth and prove it."
	0

01-14-2010, 07:47 AM	#39
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	I really think there is a happy medium between the two systems. If they limit doctor pay I think we will lose alot of doctors in the US. They are use to a lifestyle and if they get capped they will go elsewhere. Interesting on the pay now for service on the MRI. I just called up and scheduled it the same day. Twice. Cigarettes really cost $12.50 a pack? 8O Glad I don't smoke. I wouldn't be able to eat. __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
	0

01-14-2010, 09:14 AM	#41
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	They are doing that with cigarettes in alot of states. There is no place for doctors to go is right. I just look at it as a capitalist. The government is restricting how much somebody can earn. Now the system could work without the caps on salary too. Also the doctor is restricted to how much they can charge. I am not saying that the Canadian system in not better, but in the US that would mean alot of big changes for us. Millions of people are employed by insurance companies. Would they lose their jobs? Not a good time for that. I know that according the the big health bill that people are suppose to be able to keep their doctors and insurance that already have. So from what I am really hearing is that most Canadians would give thier healthcare a 9 out of 10. Wait times being a minor inconvience as the biggest flaw. __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
	0

01-14-2010, 01:42 AM	#38
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	I know in BC sometimes specialists can be a bit of a wait to get the first appointment...and it all depends on the area of specialty. I think for knees and backs it's not that bad but if it's something a little more 'obscure' then you might need to wait a bit. I do know our friends daughter wrecked her knee playing softball. (She is 14) She was told she'd have to wait 6 months for an MRI through the system, but they could pay $700 and have a private clinic do it right away. They bucked up, found the torn MCL, and surgery was booked and done within a week. I also know there is some form of procedure to go through to get the money back. I haven't heard from them about whether they were successful. The wait times seem more for the tests than the actual surgery. Dad was admitted to hospital last night and is in a big private room in the ICU ward. It's the biggest, nicest damn hospital room I've ever seen with top of the line equipment and staff. Now, it's probably the newest hospital in our province, but there was virtually no wait for emergency care (arrived by ambulance) in one of the busiest hospitals east of the major center of Vancouver. It seems government run healthcare is working in Canada.
	0

01-14-2010, 10:49 AM	#43
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	You guys are giving me the impression that its not as bad as it sounds. I still think that what we have in the US is not as bad as people think either. What I think holds us up is the the employer based system that "locks" alot of people into staying with an employer even though they want to leave. Especially if they have a pre-existing condition. This is not a problem in Canada I can see. Thanks you for your opinions. I still don't want to see us make a rash decision in the US, but I think we do need changes. Superfly I really appreciate your input. Allen __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
	0

01-14-2010, 12:38 PM	#45
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	Well, with my MRIs I my insurance paid all but $100 of it. That was my share and what I had to pay upfrent at time of service. Neither were life or death situations. People needing emergency care get it whether they can pay or not. It also makes no difference at the ER how long you wait if your a paying customer or not. __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
	0