Hawk 250 first start problems

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Using thou gauges IMO is a too big of a jump
mm gauges are much smaller and gives a finer increment in testing
0.01mm is less then half a thou which is 0.0127mm
So by using mm feeler gauges and using the go n go method your testing to a much smaller tolerance
Again my opinion and backed with a theory and some fact
Each to their own but that’s the VERY reason I supply mm feeler gauges in my tool set on eBay
I see and believe it’s a more accurate way and test with mm feeler gauges

O. K. But the other fact is that we can pretty well trust that Chinese feeler gauges are made to international standards, assuming it comes from the right maker. But I wouldn't trust Chinese inch gauge feeler gauges at all. Just too easy to make a mistake in manufacture. Push rod engines have done just fine for more than 100 years using the inch system. Some English engines didn't even mention using feeler gauges at all in setting valve clearances. My Ariel 350 and 500 owners guide recommended "Set the engine at top dead center on the compression stroke. The clearaces are correct when the intake push rod can be spun freely, and the exhaust push rod has a barely perceptible-and-down shake..."...ARH

[Megadan]

I will expand on what ARH said a little further. Arguing that the metric feeler gauges are more graduated is a moot argument to make. While technically true, the difference is so small that not even most engineers would take it into account unless they were dealing with insanely close tolerances for the most precise work. Plus, it's not hard to find SAE feeler gauges graduated in .0005in increments. The graduation change between .08mm and .07mm vs .003in(.076mm) and a .0025in(.064mm) is quite literally .00011 in. of a difference (.00039in vs. .0005in). Trust me when I tell you that is well within the realm of the same tolerance given the chance for variation in how tightly that gap is set even within the realm of "good" (gauge having a slight resistance). I machine parts for high speed production machines that don't even have tolerances that tight.

[NzBrakelathes]

It is aimed for people to check, see, learn and think to get the end result correct.

It means the average DIY dude can check and have the right tools to do the job.

Not to say everyone 'likes" or agrees but you see the system is fool proof.

Just like you don't need to set valves at TDC - can be done with 1 valve open and adj the other if you know what you are doing, but for many the long way and the explanation etc makes sure they can get to the end correctly and how they can check they have it correct.

hack shortcuts are for experianced people IMO, the long way that shows all theory etc is easier to understand for beginners and that is how you start to learn more

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

It is aimed for people to check, see, learn and think to get the end result correct.

It means the average DIY dude can check and have the right tools to do the job.

Not to say everyone 'likes" or agrees but you see the system is fool proof.

Just like you don't need to set valves at TDC - can be done with 1 valve open and adj the other if you know what you are doing, but for many the long way and the explanation etc makes sure they can get to the end correctly and how they can check they have it correct.

hack shortcuts are for experianced people IMO, the long way that shows all theory etc is easier to understand for beginners and that is how you start to learn more

The average DIY guy can do a valve check on one of these engines regardless of technique. Plus, the "go no go" method you describe is standard practice for pretty much every mechanic out there (at least those with training or common sense). So I agree with your description there.

What I don't agree with is "hack" methods of setting valves. Can it be done that way? Sure. The reason every manufacturer has their valve clearances set at TDC on the compression stroke is to eliminate any chance of variables. It is the only position in the 2 rotations of the 4 cycle engine that can 100% ensure that the cam lobes for that cylinder is not applying any amount of lift to either valve.
It's not about showing theory, it's about known quantities/variables and consistency. If you can't be bothered to take a minute to set the engine to TDC...

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by Megadan

The average DIY guy can do a valve check on one of these engines regardless of technique. Plus, the "go no go" method you describe is standard practice for pretty much every mechanic out there (at least those with training or common sense). So I agree with your description there.

What I don't agree with is "hack" methods of setting valves. Can it be done that way? Sure. The reason every manufacturer has their valve clearances set at TDC on the compression stroke is to eliminate any chance of variables. It is the only position in the 2 rotations of the 4 cycle engine that can 100% ensure that the cam lobes for that cylinder is not applying any amount of lift to either valve.
It's not about showing theory, it's about known quantities/variables and consistency. If you can't be bothered to take a minute to set the engine to TDC...

Hence I suggest the low way for many people - but you try a 6 cyl engine and go to TDC each time and see what the boss says lol.

So many methods etc but yes the long way the go no go way etc is a clear path to a successful adjustment of valves, see why I suggest it this way?
Pointless to go on and on as we are only talking a 1 cyl push rod engine and the long way etc etc works fine and shows and creates a pathway to a job done well.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Hence I suggest the low way for many people - but you try a 6 cyl engine and go to TDC each time and see what the boss says lol.

So many methods etc but yes the long way the go no go way etc is a clear path to a successful adjustment of valves, see why I suggest it this way?
Pointless to go on and on as we are only talking a 1 cyl push rod engine and the long way etc etc works fine and shows and creates a pathway to a job done well.

What MY boss said was do every cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke. "We aren't paying repair bills for you or anyone else taking shortcuts. You will be paying for it, or you will be gone."...ARH

[OneLeggedRider]

I have done 4 and 6 cylinder automotive engines with the screw and locknut and just set as many as possible in one position as long as the cam lobe was pointing away from the follower, then rotate it a little and do the rest. When I first started wrenching on 3 wheelers I didn't even use a feeler gauge, just grabbed it and felt for a slight tap. Not precise but they ran.

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

I have done 4 and 6 cylinder automotive engines with the screw and locknut and just set as many as possible in one position as long as the cam lobe was pointing away from the follower, then rotate it a little and do the rest. When I first started wrenching on 3 wheelers I didn't even use a feeler gauge, just grabbed it and felt for a slight tap. Not precise but they ran.

Been there and done that.

[Audihuff]

Hello fellow riders! Yesterday i arrived at the 100 mile mark on the Hawk 250! but at 99.5mi it started making a yucky clicking/rattling/jackhammer sound. I took it home, changed the oil, cleaned filter/screen (no pieces). buttoned her back and started it up. still was making the weird noise. going home on lunch break and setting valve clearance again since im at 100 miles on new bike. any other suggestions of what this might be? i recorded a video but its too big, im working on uploading it.

[JerryHawk250]

Hopefully it just needs a valve adjustment. With too large of a gap those valve can get loud. Those first few hundred miles you will need to adjust them a few time until everything wears and settles in.

[Audihuff]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

Hopefully it just needs a valve adjustment. With too large of a gap those valve can get loud. Those first few hundred miles you will need to adjust them a few time until everything wears and settles in.

This comforts me greatly, ill keep everyone posted and up to date. thanks for the quick response!

[Megadan]

Even adjusted properly these engines are quite clattery once they get hot and the oil thins out. It's just the nature of the valvetrain.

[Audihuff]

well i adjusted valve lash and started her up. sounded great till it got hot then you hear this nice ticking noise. runs and rides great just concerned as ive never owned a bike before lol

[JerryHawk250]

That is normal. It's when you don't hear them ticking it's usually a good time to check them.

[Audihuff]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

That is normal. It's when you don't hear them ticking it's usually a good time to check them.

awesome! i will stop worrying so much haha thankyou!