Hawk Talk

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Bruce's

They also have rim locks while most out the door china bikes do not ,also because they are dirt track ,they are not going on the road ,while plated road legal bikes have to deal with high speeds on pavement .

My Ariel was not a dirt bike. It was a "Roadster", which meant any kind of road. It topped out at around 84-85 mph, and it was excellent in the corners. I carried 3 extra lbs pressure in the rear, and 1 extra in the front because I weighed 207 in high school. But, no doubt, the soft tires helped the suspension do it's job. The rear suspension was fine on asphalt or concrete, but wanted to hop on fast dirt roads. The dirt roads I was racing on were pretty hard, but would develop ripples as the day wore on. That's why I traded that bike in on an AJS 350. Even though the Ajay had superior suspension, it was not as powerful as the Ariel. But it was faster on the dirt TT tracks of my youth because it had swing arm rear suspension with "Teledraulic" rear shocks. Those rear shocks, now called "Jam Pots", were the best available at the time...ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

New riders of Hawks, Enforcers, and others using the Hawk type engine, will sooner or later think about more horsepower. And more speed. Yes, you can have both. On a dual sport/enduro, the trick is to improve the system to get improved air flow through the carburetor, and out the exhaust. To begin with, you will have to open up the air box, and MotoCheez has a very good video on how this is done. Another good idea is to put a check valve (PCV works fine, and the are cheap) in the hose going from the engine to the airbox. Reduces crank case pressure, and reduces slobbering into the airbox. Next is changing the jets and the needle height in the carburetor, or changing to a VM-26 Mikuni carb. The 30.00 dollar Mikuni's are the bottom feeders in their line up. But even so, at least they have easy to find jets and adjustable needle height. These are Chinese made variations on the true Mikuni carbs. They now have the difficult to adjust idle air control, and idle speed control of even cheaper Chinese knock-offs. For fifty bucks more, you can find Mikunis with easy to adjust idle mixture screws and idle speed screws, and, as a bonus, a cold starting system that gets rid of the choke butterfly and shaft that partially restricts air flow as engine speed builds. Next is the exhaust system. The stock exhaust is pretty restrictive. Bubble gum welds in the head pipes are common. The cat is too small and adds more restriction. The stock muffler weighs a lot. The whole aftermarket exhaust (e-bay) cuts about 15 pounds off of the bikes weight. With these mods, you will have to rejet the carb. Both jets. The main AND the pilot. Too lean a pilot jet effects carburation all the way up to max speed, forcing you to use too big of a main jet, wich will effect low speed running. Poor low speed running means you either have to run too small (like stock) front sprocket, or abuse the clutch in order to get going from lights and stop signs. Abusing the clutch will cause you much more pain and agravation then putting in the right pilot jet in the first place. May you enjoy happy riding on this little Chinese charmer...ARH

[ricardoguitars]

What is that cold starting system you are talking about? is it something that you can used instead of the choke?. Eliminating the choke butterfly will give more velocity to the air flow going inside the carb, right?

[pete]

cold start system = choke...
both systems enrich the mixture
just work diffrent ways..
a carb either has a choke butterfly
or a enriching curcuit...




..

[ricardoguitars]

Originally Posted by pete

cold start system = choke...
both systems enrich the mixture
just work diffrent ways..
a carb either has a choke butterfly
or a enriching curcuit...




..

You mean like the enricher on the CVK scooter carbs?

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by ricardoguitars

What is that cold starting system you are talking about? is it something that you can used instead of the choke?. Eliminating the choke butterfly will give more velocity to the air flow going inside the carb, right?

Well, to me, a choke is a device that shuts off much of the airflow at the mouth of the carb. This causes more vacuum in the rest of the carburetor. Because of the lower atmospheric air pressure at the venturi, fuel flows up through the pilot jet, mixes with the reduced airflow. This produces a combustable mixture for cold engine starts. A cold starting system is a special jet that you operate to enrich the fuel mixture for cold starting. The advantage is no butterfly and shaft obstructing the air flow...ARH

[hertz9753]

Did any of you think about the Hawk 250 Enduro seems easier to title, register and get insurance for in many states.

The more approved info that get into a data base is good.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Well, to me, a choke is a device that shuts off much of the airflow at the mouth of the carb. This causes more vacuum in the rest of the carburetor. Because of the lower atmospheric air pressure at the venturi, fuel flows up through the pilot jet, mixes with the reduced airflow. This produces a combustable mixture for cold engine starts. A cold starting system is a special jet that you operate to enrich the fuel mixture for cold starting. The advantage is no butterfly and shaft obstructing the air flow...ARH

For a majority of bikes and owners on this site, the VM26/PZ30 clone carburetors with a traditional butterfly choke will suit their purposes just fine. The only thing I try to stress to people that are looking to do the Mikuni is that there is no real performance gain to be had, and not just because of the choke. In every way they are pretty much the same carb. Same bore, same venturi size, butterfly choke.

If it is performance they seek, then I agree with you 100%. They are better off spending the extra money on either the true Mikuni of which you speak, or a PWK/OKO half-moon flat slide like the one I bought.

The real issue is, there isn't a lot of detailed literature/posts on doing these setups for the Hawks and similar bikes to be found on this site. There are plenty of threads and even youtube videos on tuning the PZ30 or swapping and tunin the VM26 clone. I do intend to change that with my PWK install. Listing parts, sources, and jetting.

I have a feeling that these types setups will become more common once people have some reference material to go off of - Be it simply what parts to use like what intake manifold/boot setup they need. Or more importantly, a starting point for jetting, because a lot of people are timid enough as it is with jetting a carburetor due to their fear of potentially hurting their engine. Solutions for intake setups may be another one in the case of the OKO/PWK flat slides because the inlet side of the carb is much bigger and will not work with the factory intake tube. Not many people are keen on rocking an exposed pod filter.

That is one reason I share so much info about pretty much everything I do with my bike. All of the troubles I have, experiments I am trying, money I am wasting in pursuit of finding solutions. Your average shade tree mechanic will have no problem with bolting an exhaust on, but getting into things like fueling and ignition stuff (besides a spark plug swap) and the number of people willing to try drops a lot, even if they have the ability and a decent understanding. Nobody wants to ruin their bike. Me... I don't care too much if I do, because it gives me an excuse to do an engine swap, or build up the motor a little. Or both - because I really want to get my hands on the 270cc version of the CG250 and hop it up a bit.

[PalladinSC]

I've found a replacement air filter. It's a Honda 17211-ZL8-023, available at Lowes Home Stores or via Amazon. Cost is less than $10 which is much better than the K&N 33-2238 ($30+) or the filter from RPS ($20 + shipping).

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Megadan

For a majority of bikes and owners on this site, the VM26/PZ30 clone carburetors with a traditional butterfly choke will suit their purposes just fine. The only thing I try to stress to people that are looking to do the Mikuni is that there is no real performance gain to be had, and not just because of the choke. In every way they are pretty much the same carb. Same bore, same venturi size, butterfly choke.

If it is performance they seek, then I agree with you 100%. They are better off spending the extra money on either the true Mikuni of which you speak, or a PWK/OKO half-moon flat slide like the one I bought.

The real issue is, there isn't a lot of detailed literature/posts on doing these setups for the Hawks and similar bikes to be found on this site. There are plenty of threads and even youtube videos on tuning the PZ30 or swapping and tunin the VM26 clone. I do intend to change that with my PWK install. Listing parts, sources, and jetting.

I have a feeling that these types setups will become more common once people have some reference material to go off of - Be it simply what parts to use like what intake manifold/boot setup they need. Or more importantly, a starting point for jetting, because a lot of people are timid enough as it is with jetting a carburetor due to their fear of potentially hurting their engine. Solutions for intake setups may be another one in the case of the OKO/PWK flat slides because the inlet side of the carb is much bigger and will not work with the factory intake tube. Not many people are keen on rocking an exposed pod filter.

That is one reason I share so much info about pretty much everything I do with my bike. All of the troubles I have, experiments I am trying, money I am wasting in pursuit of finding solutions. Your average shade tree mechanic will have no problem with bolting an exhaust on, but getting into things like fueling and ignition stuff (besides a spark plug swap) and the number of people willing to try drops a lot, even if they have the ability and a decent understanding. Nobody wants to ruin their bike. Me... I don't care too much if I do, because it gives me an excuse to do an engine swap, or build up the motor a little. Or both - because I really want to get my hands on the 270cc version of the CG250 and hop it up a bit.

I have nothing against flat-slide carburetors, except that the less expensive ones, like the OKO carbs do not offer interchangeable slides, like the Mikuni's do. However, your experiments should be able to tell us which size to use. Looking forward to reading of your results...ARH

[shahram72]

Anyone know thing about the Hawk 2? It is a revision? Is it another maker? I want to get this bike but I want to have support from the community and parts. http://www.saferwholesale.com/Hawk-2.../rta-hawk2.htm

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by shahram72

Anyone know thing about the Hawk 2? It is a revision? Is it another maker? I want to get this bike but I want to have support from the community and parts. http://www.saferwholesale.com/Hawk-2.../rta-hawk2.htm

From what I've been able to find out, it is made in the same factory, but by a different manufacturer which has been connected with the original manufacturer for years. Most parts are the same, as far as I can find out. There are some differences, but parts are available on the internet So, I THINK you would have no more parts problem than with the original Hawk...ARH

[BlackBike]

Originally Posted by shahram72

Anyone know thing about the Hawk 2? It is a revision? Is it another maker? I want to get this bike but I want to have support from the community and parts. http://www.saferwholesale.com/Hawk-2.../rta-hawk2.htm

We promise unlimited support and a million million mile warranty, just like the dealers tell you

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Isn't that a good question? I don't like doing it, but I've found the same questions over and over again by new China Riders, often every day. It is almost as if people no longer know how to do simple research. So, you guys have to read the same things over and over. I know it is not fair for those of you whose memory span is broader than a house fly's wing span, but I write this stuff for the new China Rider. They are the ones who need help the most. So, I thought I found a need, and have tried to supply that need. My goal is to help the newbies at this new to them experience. You guys that have been around the block a few times know how to find parts, how to deal with the Hawk's shortcomes as delivered, knocked down, to their driveway. They have to be encouraged to think outside of the box. It is a bit scary buying a bike where there are no dealerships and no 800-250-Hawk phone numbers for parts and advice. Until they do it. Some of these people have never even serviced their riding lawn mower, let alone built a motor cycle out of the box on their driveway. It is scary to them. Problems seem insolvable. But the good riders on China Riders are willing to do everything possible to help these people get their Hawk experience off to a great start...ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Isn't that a good question? I don't like doing it, but I've found the same questions over and over again by new China Riders, often every day. It is almost as if people no longer know how to do simple research. So, you guys have to read the same things over and over. I know it is not fair for those of you whose memory span is broader than a house fly's wing span, but I write this stuff for the new China Rider. They are the ones who need help the most. So, I thought I found a need, and have tried to supply that need. My goal is to help the newbies at this new to them experience. You guys that have been around the block a few times know how to find parts, how to deal with the Hawk's shortcomes as delivered, knocked down, to their driveway. They have to be encouraged to think outside of the box. It is a bit scary buying a bike where there are no dealerships and no 800-250-Hawk phone numbers for parts and advice. Until they do it. Some of these people have never even serviced their riding lawn mower, let alone built a motor cycle out of the box on their driveway. It is scary to them. Problems seem insolvable. But the good riders on China Riders are willing to do everything possible to help these people get their Hawk experience off to a great start...ARH

Oh yeah. For those of you interested, I never owned an Ariel Square Four. I rode one once for twenty minutes, or so, but it just wasn't for me. Too much like a Packard motor car, not enough like a Jaguar...ARH