$5895 for RX4

[StevieUT]

Originally Posted by calvarez

Some people recommend carrying an "in between" sized tube in order to be able to fit either the front or rear. What do you guys carry?

I carry correct size tubes for both front and rear. Also, it only took one field change of the rear tube/tire to swap the rear stock RX3 rim to a Warp 9. One thing I'd want to know on the optional alloy rims for the RX4 is how easy it is to change a tube/tire.

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by StevieUT

I carry correct size tubes for both front and rear. Also, it only took one field change of the rear tube/tire to swap the rear stock RX3 rim to a Warp 9. One thing I'd want to know on the optional alloy rims for the RX4 is how easy it is to change a tube/tire.

the alloy wheels always accept a tube no drama.

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by Working_ZS

For those of you wondering why it is taking so long for the RX4 to get here, stop and recall that it has not even passed EPA/CARB emissions testing yet. Until it does, CSC & Zongshen do not even know what the final manufacturing configuration will need to be as it relates to the engine. Sure, some of the stuff that is not emissions related has been decided, but until it passes the testing and gets certification, they can't actually build or ship anything. Any delivery date they give is obviously provisional, for that reason. Since I already have an RX3 and a TT250, I really do not care when it gets here. I'll just keep riding the wheels off of them until it arrives. CSC has proven, repeatedly, their ability to import and support their bikes; therefore I'm not worried. It gets here when it gets here.

That point I see as fair and valid - I never mention or moaned about the price of the bike or compared to retail in China or any other place.

Originally Posted by Working_ZS

As to the current specifications, I don't believe that there is any actual "standard" RX4 configuration. Zongshen builds it however its import partners want it for any given market. CSC chose what it feels will sell best here in the US. Since it is an ADV bike, they went with spoked wheels. For the luggage, I think they made their decision based on the number of RX3 owners who actually upgraded to the TourFella cases. I'm one of them, but I see online that a lot of folks stuck with the plastic bags. Despite that, they've upgraded the top case. From the pictures that I've seen of it, it is as large as the aluminum one in the TourFella set, able to fit a full face helmet and then some. For the colors, I believe that the price dictated the curtailed choices, since CSC probably doesn't want to get stuck with leftovers in what turned out to be an unpopular color at $6300 a pop. I suspect that there will always be only two choices in any given model year, which is pretty much the same way that all the European and Japanese manufacturers do it. This is the reason that I went ahead and put in my order, to ensure that I get the color that I want, instead of settling for whatever is left in stock. Being that this is a more expensive bike than their previous offerings, I don't think that they will carry as many RX4's in stock as they do their other bikes. So if you want one, or think that you might, you should really consider putting a deposit down so that you know that you are in line for one. Otherwise, you might find yourself out of luck if you wait until they are actually here to order.

This part I disagree and here is why:

China Guatemala Pakistan and maybe more all got the Ali cases as standard without the option of plastic cases once Zongshen offered it with part of their bike RX3 mid 2014ish (USA isn't on the same economical level as these I know but it is meant to be the richest country, so why offer a poverty pack?)
Other narkets got Carb version and that I see due to costs and economics in certain countries and quality of fuel - both are valid.
Spoke wheels with a rear 17 inch wheel as opposed to the 15 inch rear wheel makes sense due to abilty to get tyres in other regions of the world (15 inch rather uncommon outside of China).
The USB was standard in China sinch mid 2014 and maybe other countries too, did the USA get this as well or was this an optional $99 extra? (HELLS teeth the dash factory had to specially make without USB and retail here in WAY lower then $99)

Originally Posted by Working_ZS

For those worried about paying for extra parts, many folks like to have an extra set of wheels. I do. It makes tire changes way quicker, since I can have a set mounted and balanced ahead of time. It also allows one to have separate dirt and road configurations (one running tubes and the other tubeless), if the alloy set is chosen instead of a second set of spoked wheels. And this assumes that people even buy the alloy wheels; folks talk a good game, but when it comes time to part with the money, they often do something else entirely different. As to leftover luggage, that's just about the best excuse one could ever need to buy another bike to install it on. There is no way that your significant other, if you have one, could possibly find fault with that argument.

Extra wheels and being given the option I think is a great idea but OPTION.
Luggage should either be nothing or TourFella case as the plastic stuff was only used on the first 1-2 years and was cheap even in China it wasn't liked and yes you could order with our without luggage or with or without cast alloy wheels.

I really fail to see any genuine reason the USA folk should be offered a poverty pack as the local wallets are easily able to afford the not large difference in costs (China retail cost isn't that big and factory door price would be better)

Playing with specs this way in the USA in my mind says something and its not good, if it was Pakistan Central America or lower economy country offering lower specs I could see why etc but these countries get the "USA optional spec in the market as standard"
If my opinion pisses you off sorry but there is 1 thing I hate most and that is things that distort truth or tricks or BS.

I feel the USA bike SHOULD be offered stock with luggage like stock (stock being country of manufacturer spec) NO plastic cases.
Or heck discount to plastic not ali.

Wheels should be fully optional as they are very similar in price retail in China (factory price isn't massive at all)

Remember the bike is being ordered and speced to your liking so it must be easy.

The USA when you order a car you tell the factory what you want and what options etc you want? Am I right or wrong?

I am by no means saying DO NOT buy an RX4 I am not comparing retail price from China to the USA as I would expect prices to change due to many factors etc but DON"T strip and poverty spec a bike for the worlds Number 1 economy and think people wont notice and will keep quiet! (maybe people will stay silent I don't know, maybe Americans and Chinese are so alike and will quietly grumble or just ignore something that in my mind is not reasonable)

If I misrepresented or made any mistakes in my facts please tell me I will edit to remedy any mistakes, but my opinions stay as my opinions

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

...
The USA when you order a car you tell the factory what you want and what options etc you want? Am I right or wrong?
...

A little of both.

You can usually spec a car to your liking, but you will have to wait a while to get it and usually won't get much of a discount, if any. Normally in the US, it is car dealers that specify what options are installed on their inventory for sale, from the factory. Then you, as the buyer, pick from what they have in inventory on their sales lot. If they don't have what you want, but they really want the sale, they may horse trade with another dealer who does have a car with the desired options. Basically, here in the US, dealers pretty much call the shots in regards to optional equipment specifications. And for the RX4, CSC is the only dealer. They are the ones taking all of the risk that the bike even sells enough to cover the $60-70,000 that it costs for the emissions testing, let alone turn a profit for them. And none of us is privy to what Zongshen is offering to CSC and for what price. I personally would love it if the RX4 came with the TourFella cases stock at the $6300 price point, as I think it would really put the screws to the RE Himalayan and the Kawasaki Versys 300-X, both of which come with nothing but the bike; everything else is an optional extra. And since it is early days yet, who knows? They may yet decide to do that.

It really comes back to the fact that CSC is the only dealer, and trying to custom spec out each bike is probably more hassle than they want to deal with, especially if it sells well (it would definitely be a nice problem to have, though). It's probably much easier, and yes, more profitable, to specify a base level that they know,from previous experience with the RX3, is enough for most buyers. Then, those who want more have the option to upgrade to something better at added cost. Kind of the way most dealers, of anything, do it here in the US.

[sqwert]

Originally Posted by StevieUT

sqwert...Do your TW's have modified TTR225 or TW225 engines? I'm thinking of going that route.

If memory serves bore and stroke from 70 x 58 to 74 x 62. 223cc to 266.7cc. Pistons from 250 bore kit for TT-R230 from xr100.com, but I don't think they sell them any more. Let us know if you find a source. I'm on my last one.

TW200 cases bored to fit XT or TT-R cylinder sleeve. Use XT225 or TT-R230 head. Don't recall compressed base gasket thickness, but you'll need 2 and an aluminum plate spacer to go between the cases and cylinder to lower compression. Also allows use of a longer rod so not necessary to trim piston skirts. Needs 2 pins longer cam chain. Calculate spacer to fit cam chain.

TW countershaft turned on a lathe to match trans side of XT or TT-R shaft. 6-speed trans from XT225 or TT-R230 drops right in.

Sebastian from Germany has sprockets for 520 chain. You'll need stronger chain.

Left case cover from TW200 to maintain outboard countershaft bearing and lubrication.

XT225 or TT-R230 right side case cover to allow room for 225/230 clutch, which has 1 more each plate and disc than TW200.

XT, TT-R, and TW kickstart components the same, except kick lever is bent to clear cases on each model. Easy to retrofit if desired.

That's the modded parts. Compare online parts lists to see which parts are common, or use those parts that connect to the parts you use. I think for the same model years the only real differences on the crank assembly are the crank halves themselves and the pistons. If memory serves, the rods are the same. I built a machine to keep the holes aligned, heated the rods, and stretched them 2mm.

The trans is a completely different ball game, but other than the stronger clutch, extra gear, and lack of external countershaft bearing lubrication, each addressed above, it's a simple swap if the right parts are used.

Word of advice: The 6-speed in a stock 200 is a lot better upgrade than an extra 223cc. I don't regret doing the trans at first, then going back in and doing the 223, then going back and doing the 267. Each is good, but going half way you'll never be satisfied.

[StevieUT]

Sweet! Thanks sqwert! That's a great run down and gives me plenty to start with. My plan would be 6 speed and 250cc if I can find the big bore parts. If not I'd do 230cc plus the 6 speed. If I find the 250 parts, I will certainly update with a source.

[sqwert]

The U. S. of A. is no longer the place it used to be. People from elsewhere are still operating on the delusions of yesterday. U. S. of A. has about 1,700,000, laws and regulations with the force of law, the vast majority created by unelected bureaucrats, never read or voted on by representatives, and enforced by law enforcement personnel just as ignorant and even more functionally delusional. Hong Kong, has about 1980 similar expectations. Way to keep it real, Hong Kong! On many things people living in countries taught to be unenlightened enjoy significantly more practical choices than we do. After all, we have to "fit in".

[sqwert]

Originally Posted by StevieUT

Sweet! Thanks sqwert! That's a great run down and gives me plenty to start with. My plan would be 6 speed and 250cc if I can find the big bore parts. If not I'd do 230cc plus the 6 speed. If I find the 250 parts, I will certainly update with a source.

The XT and TT-R are the same 223cc engines. I believe the TW225 is also the same. I think the only difference in the three is the transmissions and countershaft sprocket location. Even the XT and TT-R have different ratios in the lower gears. There are also different generations of each engine, and I'm not sure which year each was updated. Maybe all at the same time?

Anywho, as long as you get the more closely spaced gears of the 6-speed, you'll be happy. Use the 223 crank and top end, you'll be happier. Add a 250cc bore kit and some head clean up, you'll hop and skip. Stroke it with all the rest, you'll have an orgasm. It will run like a RX3 with a 300 kit, except wider gear ratios to take advantage of the 300 engine's improved power band. Other than the RX3s gear ratios I wish I had in Snot Rocket, about the same powerband.

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by sqwert

The XT and TT-R are the same 223cc engines. I believe the TW225 is also the same. I think the only difference in the three is the transmissions and countershaft sprocket location. Even the XT and TT-R have different ratios in the lower gears. There are also different generations of each engine, and I'm not sure which year each was updated. Maybe all at the same time?

Anywho, as long as you get the more closely spaced gears of the 6-speed, you'll be happy. Use the 223 crank and top end, you'll be happier. Add a 250cc bore kit and some head clean up, you'll hop and skip. Stroke it with all the rest, you'll have an orgasm. It will run like a RX3 with a 300 kit, except wider gear ratios to take advantage of the 300 engine's improved power band. Other than the RX3s gear ratios I wish I had in Snot Rocket, about the same powerband.

Fun fact..ish
TW200 and Zongshen Seirra 200 is a clone of the same motor as I have 1 and bought a couple small TW200 parts for it.
Zongshen did a 250 version (street bike) and used a bigger only piston.
In the 250 I believe cases are different etc but I did wonder if using Yamaha parts in the Zongshen case etc mixing them up would produce a bigger then 250 motor.

[StevieUT]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Fun fact..ish
TW200 and Zongshen Seirra 200 is a clone of the same motor as I have 1 and bought a couple small TW200 parts for it.
Zongshen did a 250 version (street bike) and used a bigger only piston.
In the 250 I believe cases are different etc but I did wonder if using Yamaha parts in the Zongshen case etc mixing them up would produce a bigger then 250 motor.

Interesting. I wonder if the 250 street version has the same crazy offset of the output shaft.

[sqwert]

Interesting. NZ. I don't think the 200 cylinder can be bored to 250 and still be thick enough in the cylinder liner. I wonder if Zongshen adopted the 223cc stroke. If so, you can do a 250cc bore kit for the XT225 and TT-R 230. Could we be so lucky?

[sqwert]

Originally Posted by StevieUT

Interesting. I wonder if the 250 street version has the same crazy offset of the output shaft.

The offset of the countershaft sprocket on the TW isn't crazy. The offset is necessary to clear the fat rear tire that makes the TW what it is.

[StevieUT]

Originally Posted by sqwert

The offset of the countershaft sprocket on the TW isn't crazy. The offset is necessary to clear the fat rear tire that makes the TW what it is.

Yep, I understand that. Poor choice of words. By "crazy" I meant significant.

[sqwert]

Originally Posted by StevieUT

Yep, I understand that. Poor choice of words. By "crazy" I meant significant.

On the same page now. I wonder if the NC250 will fit in the TW frame. With a 300 kit that would be an awesome bike. If the chain will clear the tire.

[NzBrakelathes]

The Zong 250 TW style was bigger piston different bottom cases with a TW crank if I revall