New Zongshen RX3 (ZS250GY-3) Dual Sport

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

I wonder if there would be any benefit to a paper filter at all. Spud's Zong and several Yamaha models all use a coarse screen at the drain plug and a fine SS filter in the filter housing, and those engines have a reputation for living a long life.

All of my Honda clone engines (and my Honda engines) have only the coarse screen at the drain plug, and those are also very reliable. I'm beginning to think that anything that could get through the screen wouldn't harm anything at all.

Originally Posted by Mudflap

The CG type engines also have the centrifugal filter that does pretty good job gathering up the small particles.

After riding my Zongshen ZS200GY-2 for over 67,000 miles, I have complete confidence in the stainless steel oil filters. Cleaning the stainless steel filters is a little more inconvenient, but it is certainly less expensive. Having a stainless steel oil filter is a big advantage if you are adventure touring; you don't need to carry paper filters along with you.

As with my Zongshen ZS200GY-2, I will acquire about three, stainless steel oil filters for my Zongshen RX3. Oil changes are faster if you can install a spare oil filter, and clean the other, extra oil filters at your convenience.

[thillskier]

The zinc helps bearings but doesn't make the clutch slip, so good all around. This will be for the break in as I'm going to Amsoil motorcycle specific synthetic after I get home ...2500 miles or so.
Great idea Spud re reusable filters for cleaning later on..Thanks!
Agreed with Weld and SPud re great info on here as well.

I am adding check valves before leaving CSC. I was going to change the oil and filter as well before leaving to get any manufacturing residues out, AND make sure the oil is of a known and very good quality.

As soon as oil filters are located (reusaable ones that is), please post it so I can order them.

I hope the suspension is good enough to carry me and my stuff, as thats the only REAL concern I have at this point.. I am 6'5" and 220-230 lbs, plus will have another 100 lbs of tools and gear, probably.

I guess race tech etc will offer upgraded shocks and fork upgrades in time as well, but thats lost of $$ on other motorcycles.

[thillskier]

That almost 2 qt oil capacity is welcome news. Thats a goodly amont of oil for a 250cc motorcycle. My car, a 1000cc Honda Insight only holds about 2 and 1/2 qts! and many have over 500,000 miles with out issue! One delivery car driver has 1,100,000+ on his and it uses no oil between changes at 5000 miles still! Amazing!
Are our engines lined with a steel liner or a type of nikasil coating? Both are good, nowdays. The honda is linerless, so that proves its plenty durable when done correctly. Heat transferr benefits as well.

[thillskier]

I was reading about mis marking of the chain alignment adjusters and issues that can cause.
They offered a simple solution using a straight edge along both wheels and tires to set alignment initially. Definitely will do that in my pre ride setup and check out.

[Wolftrax]

This break in process has worked great for me on all the bikes I've bought new.

1. Idle engine through a couple of heat cycles, change oil.
2. Ride bike 50 to 100 miles with hard acceleration and engine braking, do not exceed 5000 RPM's change oil.
3. Ride bike normally the next 500 miles varying speed and avoiding long distance droning of engine. Change oil
4. Ride it like you stole it Change oil every 2000 miles.

That's it, I broke in a 2008 KLR650 using this method and it never burnt a drop. The 2008 Kawi's were notorious oil burners.

BTW I replace the filter with every change. I have never used a stainless replaceable filter, but with the "Spud Seal of Approval" I'm ready to give it a go.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by thillskier

...Are our engines lined with a steel liner or a type of nikasil coating? Both are good, nowdays. The honda is linerless, so that proves its plenty durable when done correctly. Heat transferr benefits as well.

I don't see a cast iron liner, so I must assume the NC250 engine has a nikasil lining.



The cylinder of my Honda CRF250X has a nikasil lining, and I like it. The nikasil lining is tough, and lasts a long time. When the bike starts burning oil, you only need to replace the piston rings. You don't need to bore, and hone the cylinder. Unless the piston skirt is worn, you don't need to replace the piston.

When performing a ring job, I only buy new piston rings, a new piston pin, and new piston circlips. I avoid machinist costs, and the cost of a new piston. When the cylinder finally wears out, you can buy one from CSC, or get a new cylinder shipped from China for less than $100. My machinist charges more to bore and hone a cylinder.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=2...r.1.0.0.svMUjz

[thillskier]

Mark, agreed re heat cycling...Most of the engine builders recommend and advise that the key to a good and successfull break in is the proper heat cycling of our engines. Not luggine them especially is very important. The use of high vacuum riding (higher rpm's without full throttle) will insure good ring seal and insure to not overheat/overstress bearings and internal engine parts while not mated to their opposing engine parts.
The engines are probably already have the rings pretty much seated what with the WOT top speed testing and other dyno testing the video's shown at the Zong factory depict.
I like that EVERY bike gets run in and evaluated...insures every bike has the same treatment, and that any issues we run into here will be universal, so all will be found, and a repair will be forthcoming!
Also, running them hard (though for a limited, rather short time period) won't overheat or overstress the bearings, and other new, unmated internal engine parts from too much heat cycling at too high temperatures...

Insuring an early good ring seal will insure the engines last the maximum possible time before starting to burn oil and overheat from issues such as blow by past the rings and piston. Compression will be, and will stay at the designed comp ratio, helping make good hp and tq as well as minimal fuel use! All good!

RUnning the motorcycles through all different rpm's and loads for short times is the absolute BEST way to break in these motorcycles, IMHO. The Baha ride, and riding home on 2 lane roads through smaller towns, occasional stoplights etc, insures proper heat cycling and not heating the engine and transmission parts overmuch causing hotspots and affecting hardening and heat treated parts in a negative way! IMHO.
Thats one reason I want to ride it home...I feel its the best way to break it in, plus a great initial adventure and chance to acquaint myself with the bike and its quirks. (we and all motorcycles have! hehe

I wish I had a permanent source for a better seat pad and solution. The air seat Mark (I believe) recommended is my temporary solution for this initial trip and ride back home, but something permanent like the seat concepts solution for the WR250 Yamaha is what I really, ultimately want ton my bike. Due to the low seat height it comes standard, (and my long legs! I can afford to add a couple inches of height if needed for more comfort.

Hopefully, CSC will have a solution eventually for this as well...

[thillskier]

The only real complaint and or question re bikes quality perception was the notchy shifting and reluctance to find neutral from first when stopped at a light etc.
This was mentioned in only one or two of the ride reports, and only the first one's I think.

Can you comment on whether this was due to the low mileage on the motorcycles when they were tested? Did the notchiness/hesitation get better or go away with some miles and use over time?

I think someone posted the blue test bike had over 8000 miles on it at that time (a month or so ago, I think).

Can you comment and or confirm this for us? Its no big deal, almost all Jap bikes I owned were like that in the 70's I remember...and mies put on them seemed to help unless they were abused, of course!

[Weldangrind]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

What is the acronym SBC?

In December I was helping my Christian Brother Andy work on a '92 GMC Jimmy with a 4.2L V6 engine. Because of a coolant leak we removed the intake manifold and both cylinder heads. When we re-assembled the engine we adjusted the hydraulic valves using the same method.

Small Block Chevrolet. An eight cylinder engine ranging from 265ci to 400ci, with almost identical external packaging. It was almost unchanged from 1955 to 1985.

Are you sure it was a 4.2l? I thought they were 4.3l engines, which BTW makes them identical to a 350ci SBC, minus two cylinders.

[Weldangrind]

Originally Posted by Mudflap

The CG type engines also have the centrifugal filter that does pretty good job gathering up the small particles.

True. The Honda XR185 and XR200 uses the same system.

[CSCDude]

Originally Posted by thillskier

The only real complaint and or question re bikes quality perception was the notchy shifting and reluctance to find neutral from first when stopped at a light etc.
This was mentioned in only one or two of the ride reports, and only the first one's I think.

Can you comment on whether this was due to the low mileage on the motorcycles when they were tested? Did the notchiness/hesitation get better or go away with some miles and use over time?

I think someone posted the blue test bike had over 8000 miles on it at that time (a month or so ago, I think).

Can you comment and or confirm this for us? Its no big deal, almost all Jap bikes I owned were like that in the 70's I remember...and mies put on them seemed to help unless they were abused, of course!

Thank you for asking. We talked about that observation by the magazine reviewers and the only thing we could think of was that if the magazine guys didn't find something to mention, their readers would think they were being too kind to us. Some of the forum trolls (on other forums and in the reviewing magazines' comments sections) have already accused the writers of that (i.e., being too nice to us). We're not complaining about the superb reviews by Motorcycle.com, ADVPulse, and ADVMoto (they had great things to say about this bike that we are sure factored into your decision to purchase it). These are folks who make their living reviewing new motorcycles, and we think we fared extremely well under their critical examinations.

Having said that, I don't think the bike's ability to find neutral, or to shift, or to have a "false neutral" (as one of the reviewers mentioned) are problems. Steve had the same observation. The bikes occasionally cause you to poke around a bit to get into neutral, but this is no different than any other motorcycle I've ever owned or ridden. My perception is the Cyclone's shifting is noticeably smoother than my other bikes.

You asked about the red bike. The red bike is the one with over 8000 miles on it (it's the one we gave the camouflage treatment to, so it's not red anymore), and I haven't ridden it since it returned from its EPA testing. It is the one I used for adjusting the valves because it had so many miles on it. I've put about a thousand miles on the blue bike, and its shifting hasn't changed during that period (it was smooth when new, and it is smooth now). And in case you were wondering, with the red bike's 8000 miles, I found that its valves required adjustment. They were a bit tight at that mileage, which is what I would have expected.

For our next oil change on the blue bike, we're going to put Mobil 1 4T in it (I always put 1000 miles on a bike before going to a synthetic oil). Mobil 1 is a superior oil and I predict the bike will probably shift a little more smoothly when we put Mobil 1 in it (this has been the case on all other motorcycles I've owned). I want to point out, though, that the shifting has been just fine on all three bikes right from the factory, and this has also been the case on the bikes I rode in Chongqing. I guess I should also mention that if you want to run Mobil 1 in your Cyclone, make sure you don't use Mobil 1 car oil; it's got to be the Mobil 1 4T for motorcycles.

I've just finished reading all of your comments on our valve adjustment tutorial (thanks for posting them). Regarding the gap being the same on both intake and exhaust, I discussed this with the Zongshen engineers during my recent visit. It is what they recommend and I would not advise departing from those recommendations. I also asked the Zongshen engineers about the 2500 mile (4000 km) valve adjustment inspection interval, and I told them that I thought it might be a bit too frequent. They said the interval could be stretched, but they were being conservative. I agree with the earlier comments on this board about checking the valves a couple of times at this frequency and then using your results (which will be based on how you ride your Cyclone) to define your own inspection frequency. I routinely go over the recommended valve adjustment interval on my KLR because I found that the valves were in spec when I checked them after the first adjustment. On my Triumph Tiger, the valves never went out of spec during the entire time I owned it (which is a good thing, as just getting to the valves always required a lot of time and cussing, and their RTV-sealant-based approach for reinstalling the valve cover was nightmarish). A lot of this adjustment interval business has to do with how you ride. If you flog a bike, the valves will require adjustment more often. One last comment on this topic...if any of you have ever adjusted valves on a Triumph, a KLR, or any other bike that uses the dreaded shims and buckets approach, you are going to love the Cyclone.

[Weldangrind]

Thanks for the updates on the red and blue bikes, Joe. I'm glad to hear that they are meeting (or exceeding) your expectations.

I hope we don't have any perceived trolls on this site. I've always been pleased with the intelligent and thoughtful posts of our members.

[SpudRider]

X2; thanks for the updates, Joe.

I'm sad to say it, but most people can't seem to handle new ideas. In this regard, people who ride Chinese motorcycles seem to be refreshingly different. We are willing to entertain new ideas, and try things for ourselves, instead of following the herd of naysayers. This is a major reason why we own Chinese motorcycles.

Our forum rules explicitly prohibit derogatory comments concerning Chinese motorcycles. I encourage all our members and visitors to read the Forum Usage Guidelines thread.

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=1

We have had very few problems with this issue during the over 6 years I have been a member of these forums. This website is a safe haven for Chinese motorcycle enthusiasts, and we intend to keep it that way. We welcome everyone with an open mind to join us.

[SpudRider]

Personally, I'm not concerned about the shifting of the RX3 transmission. Zongshen manufactures quality engines with excellent reliability.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Small Block Chevrolet. An eight cylinder engine ranging from 265ci to 400ci, with almost identical external packaging. It was almost unchanged from 1955 to 1985.

Are you sure it was a 4.2l? I thought they were 4.3l engines, which BTW makes them identical to a 350ci SBC, minus two cylinders.

Thanks for the clarification. No, I'm not 100% sure regarding the engine displacement. Does the '92 GMC Jimmy employ a 350 cubic inch, SBC engine?