bipolar dirtbike market- including new and used

[China Rider 27]

No doubt that is a good buy, price versus performance, but it won't run the road like a 25hp to 40 hp dual sport. The bike I envision is gonna have to have EFI to get by EPA and that may be SSR weak spot. Lifan? You could do it!

[Thumper]

Yup! I really like the orange XPro Titan. I'd buy one for me...but my son wanted the TBR7.
For now, I have the Storm. But I just mounted the Shinko 524 to complement the rear Tusk DSport. Next tasks are valve adjust, exhaust mods, airbox and carb mods. Cold out so I have another month or two to see what I can do about the horsepower. For what I have into this bike, I am already happy. It will just get better

[XLsior]

I'm not entirely sure if the quality of materials is quite the same now as it was 10-20+ years ago across the board. Yes the technology has improved but the bean counters keep cutting costs to maximize profit.

Call it planned obsolescence...

[Thumper]

A break in the cold weather an we are at 60 degrees today so I had to take a spin...

On pavement or hard surface, the Shinko has a noticeable bumping or tapping feeling as it lands peak to peak on the horizontal knobs across the face of the tread. They are 1.5 inches apart, repeating pattern 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3 knobs across as it rolls. But up at speed it turns into a vibration. The DSport is much smoother by comparison

Off road, OMG what a difference The tires grab like velco now front and rear. It takes real work to break it loose. The Storm is transformed from dual sport to dirt bike.

This was a quick test. I can't wait to take it into the woods!

[Thumper]

There is a contender locally for a new 30hp Chinese dirtbike at a high-ish price of $4200 on sale (normally $4600) at a dealership. Not bad really considering the build. I didn't know it existed.

This is a 2021 SSR SR300. But this 300 is not available in a street legal form.

http://www.ssrmotorsports.com/store/dirtbike/sr300s.php

They have a 250 as well, pure dirt OR in a street legal dual sport at $2999 (normally $3499) making 18hp. But that is only modestly more attractive than the street legal offerings from Lifan, Bashan, Orion...at prices at least $1000 less, ya' know

These are dealership supported models, so the additional expense is "justified". The high-end in the lineup is the SR450. It can be had for about $5000, which is less than HALF of the price of a KTM. That would be fun

[jasbeth]

Zongshem motors are used worldwide, Every brand will have their pros and cons...here is an interesting read about the Zongshen factory. 4k plus engines produced per day, including parts made for HD and complete scooters for Vespa. Personally, I have had zero problems with my Chinese bike and honestly enjoy modding the bike.



http://californiascooterco.com/blog/?p=13319

[GlennR]

I lucked up and bought a rebranded Kayo K6, that was rebranded as a Pitster Pro LXR250f, for $3000 when they liquidated their stock. It's a very good bike, but costs about $5000 if you buy one from Kayo today.

The newest model of the K6 has been upgraded with a DOHC engine, which is an impressive achievement for Zongshen.

When Pitster Pro stopped selling the K6 they changed the name of their premium line to GPX. The GPX bikes appear to be top quality, and also use the Zongshen NC300 DOHC, the NC 450, and also offerers a 2 stroke 250cc. They're about $5000+, which seems like a fair price compared to what Europe & Japan are offering.

The main negative with the premium Chinses bikes is the resale value when you decide to sell.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I wonder what the next 5-10 years has for us. My guess is that Chinese bikes will not change.

Great thoughts and comments.

Riding China bikes since about 2008, I can tell you without a doubt, that China Bikes have greatly increased in quality and performance, especially in the last 5 years.....and realistically, their prices haven't increased as much as the advancements reflect, IMHO.

My 2006 XMoto GY200, while it had a reliable CG motor, had sloppy welds that rusted, garbage suspension (compared to today's China bikes), brittle plastics and awful rubber and cabling.

Qinqi was way ahead of the curve with the QLink/Konker line (Suzuki clones) and Zong had a quality bike in the Sierra (Yamaha clone). All the Hondoids at the time were "Eh", like my XMoto........until the advent of the Hawk, TT250, Storm, etc. No great performers on the track but are still relatively cheap and will get you around the street and a ton of trails reliably.

Now....in just the last few years, we see the jump in overall quality and performance of the Kayo (and the like) and SSR bikes.

The problem is the day of the 1000.00 200cc China bike is long behind us....but that's ok in my mind, as the products have greatly improved.

[krat]

Originally Posted by Merlin

After reading this I must ask why you joined this site?
Seems like you hate Chinese motorcycles. Do you or have you owned one?

Oh, I do own a Chinese bike, I own 3 in fact. That is the reason I belong to the forum. It is not for the bonding and brotherhood of the desperate and destitute, it is for the information.

With no service department, parts availability or warranty follow up I had to find instructions on how to keep these devices on the road. This was the place.

I have had to do so much to keep the China bikes on the road that I am now pretty competent at working on my two Jap and one British/Indian bike! Still nice to know that I have parts and a dealer 10 miles down the road.

My two China scooters have not been so bad, they competently fill their niche, but the dual sport was a waste of money. I have managed to use the information from the forum to move it along the scale from dangerous to merely unacceptable.

I have also been inside the carbs of those China bikes so much that I can now rebuild every carburetor on the farm and I used to have to pay for things like that on tillers, tractors and small engines.

The forum has served me well.

I am suspect of some of the math in these posts though. I have two Hondas, both near 20 years old, and both price out at over the cost of one of the CSC 250. That makes me wonder how buying three or four China bikes in 20 years is more money smart than paying three times the price, using it for 20 years and still having the value of a new China bike left in the Honda at the end of the 20 years.

All the while I have local parts and service support for major or minor problems along the way.

[GlennR]

Originally Posted by krat

Oh, I do own a Chinese bike, I own 3 in fact. That is the reason I belong to the forum. It is not for the bonding and brotherhood of the desperate and destitute, it is for the information.

With no service department, parts availability or warranty follow up I had to find instructions on how to keep these devices on the road. This was the place.

I have had to do so much to keep the China bikes on the road that I am now pretty competent at working on my two Jap and one British/Indian bike! Still nice to know that I have parts and a dealer 10 miles down the road.

My two China scooters have not been so bad, they competently fill their niche, but the dual sport was a waste of money. I have managed to use the information from the forum to move it along the scale from dangerous to merely unacceptable.

I have also been inside the carbs of those China bikes so much that I can now rebuild every carburetor on the farm and I used to have to pay for things like that on tillers, tractors and small engines.

The forum has served me well.

I am suspect of some of the math in these posts though. I have two Hondas, both near 20 years old, and both price out at over the cost of one of the CSC 250. That makes me wonder how buying three or four China bikes in 20 years is more money smart than paying three times the price, using it for 20 years and still having the value of a new China bike left in the Honda at the end of the 20 years.

All the while I have local parts and service support for major or minor problems along the way.

It seems like you've enjoyed, and benefitted from, the educational experience of owning and maintaining Chinese bikes. That's the problem with Japanese bikes, you basically have to take them apart for "no good reason" to learn anything.

You have to wonder where an American dual-sport would lie on the quality spectrum if anyone manufactured one in the US.

[zero_dgz]

Unless you have a KLR, then you have to take it apart to replace the Doohickey. And potentially wiring harness chafe problems, and the Deep Hole issue on affected model years.



Unless you have a DR650, then you have to take it apart to fix the neutral safety switch falling out into your geartrain issue.


Unless you have an XR650L, then you have to replace the factory CDI because the OEM ones are trash. And add a cush drive if you don't want to destroy your countershaft and front sprocket on pavement.



Unless you have a CRF250L in the affected model year with the transmission shaft circlip issue.


Unless you have a DRZ400, then you have to replace the misdesigned cam chain tensioner and replace it with a manual one.



Unless you have a KLX250 and you have to replace the shift star because the stock ones like to explode into your transmission's gears.



Etc., etc...


Let's not kid ourselves that Japanese bikes are always the pinnacle of engineering without their own plethora of design flaws and mandatory upgrades, far from the gas-and-go types of claims that people inevitably feel compelled to start making about them only when the topic of comparing them to Chinese bikes comes up.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Great thoughts and comments.

Riding China bikes since about 2008, I can tell you without a doubt, that China Bikes have greatly increased in quality and performance, especially in the last 5 years.....and realistically, their prices haven't increased as much as the advancements reflect, IMHO.

My 2006 XMoto GY200, while it had a reliable CG motor, had sloppy welds that rusted, garbage suspension (compared to today's China bikes), brittle plastics and awful rubber and cabling.
...
...

Good plastic...
The garage is freezing cold but I got out there and pulled more plastic and the seat off and removed the carburetor to open and rejet. As I removed the plastic side cover, I realized that it is the same quality as the front fender. And I have flexed that front fender a few times. I don't know how long that flexibility will last, but it is not bad and a replacement is just $30 if I abuse it enough to break it

The tube connecting the carb to the airbox was also flexible enough to pull off without any problem. The quality seems better than the 70's Japanese enduros. Compounds and molding processes have probably improved.

[Thumper]

Well, I guess it didn't take long for the Chinese bike market to unleash a bike comparable to GPX 250 or CSC 250, and hot damn, just about $2k, delivered. 20+ hp is pretty good!

https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31046

It is mostly there in the thread, but this is a real tough, lightweight full sized enduro with 21" front tire, beefy alloy wheels and hubs, fully adjustable front forks, and adjustable damping/preload rear shock, lots of high end components, and the now venerable ZS172FMM 249cc 20hp (at least!) engine. Stiff and light frame, massive headset and USD front forks, cam-roller throttle, adjustable doglegged levers, top quality stanless steel headpipe and stainless steel slip-on, folding short-shifter, stainless steel nuts and bolts (allen head) all over the place, massive bearclaw footpegs.... more!

I was so lucky to snag one!

[zscr]

In my country Honda offers two dual sports models from the Brazilian market, the XR 250 tornado and the XRE 300 I guess they don’t sell them in the US to avoid competing against their Crf 250/300 lineup.

[Matt DeGroat]

I never knew about those Xre bikes. They look really cool, kind of like a Verseys.