Hawk vs Templar X

[DSAdventures]

Looking to add a something like a Hawk or Templar X to the stable. Currently have a KLR650 and a CR500r. The new bike will need to serve 3 missions.

Mission 1 - Tag along with younger nephew as he learns to ride his XR100. Hawk seems fine for that, I'll call it wheels on the ground riding where I'd mostly be putting along. I'd be the rider in this case.

Mission 2 - Bike for an older nephew to ride to build up his riding skills. Combination of gravel and dirt roads with some trail riding mixed in. Some rural backcountry paved roads where going 55 or 60 for 5 miles now and then would be needed. My nephew would probably like to get the wheels off the ground so Templar X would be better for that but Hawk would seem to cover the other aspects fine. Nephew would be the rider and I'd ride the CR or KLR depending on the ride.

Mission 3 - Dual sport bike for my dirt riding buddy so we could check out some new DS rides. These may be 30 to 50 miles rides on backcounty gravel or dirt roads. Buddy would be the rider and I'd bring the KLR.

I like the Hawk because of the wealth of knowledge and parts available for that bike. It seems like every bolt, wire and hose is known on that bike. Plus there seems to be parts for everything available. The seat looks wider so I am assuming it can be made more comfortable by replacing the foam with something better. Hawk should be a slam dunk to license in Washington State.

The Templar X seems to be a much higher quality bike but I am not seeing where parts are available like plastics or say a headlight assembly. Mission 2 will be my older nephew riding so I am expecting some crashes that will require some replacement parts. The seat doesn't look so comfy for the longer DS rides or for me putting around with my younger nephew. Licensing could be a headache unless MCO says motorcycle.

At the moment I'm leaning towards the Hawk because of parts, licensing and seat comfort(once restuffed). Can someone chime in on the Templar X regarding parts, the seat comfort and if the recent bikes have shipped with Motorcycle on the MCO?

[Thumper]

Either bike would be OK, but you may also consider Bashan model like the Recon, Storm or Brozz. These are more like the Hawk, but add inverted front forks. Bashan Storm also adds a good luggage rack.

The seat on the Templar is more comfortable than you might think. But it is a very tall bike at 36" seat height. I think it would be pretty easy to lower, but you may not want to work on it. The Templar is a whole lot of bike for the money, but it is a full size enduro. Templar also has a more powerful engine (19hp ZS172FMM). The M has a 5-speed version of this engine, and the X has the counterbalanced 6-speed version of this engine.

The hawk, and all of the Bashan bikes have the 14 horsepower Zongshen ZS167FMM.

All the Templars are street legal. Occasionally, you might have to ask for a corrected MCO. Powersports Max has done this for a few people that got a MCO with dirt bike written on it. Powersports Max has been good about this.

[DSAdventures]

Thumper, you seem to be the resident pro on the X. Thanks for the response. Do you have the scoop on parts? I am expecting tank or side plastic to get wasted. Front fender too but that can be a universal fender replacement. Or something a bit worse like dumping the bike on it's side into a rock and breaking the rear brake pedal hydraulic piston. My KLR has a guard to help prevent that. Parts concern me about the X.

With your X, if you were mostly sitting on a dual sport ride(gravel roads) could you make it comfortably for a few hours of riding with breaks(lunch stop and we were here pics)? In your opinion is the seat wide enough to be comfortable? Whatever bike I go for I figure I can always play with the foam but the seat pan has to have enough width to make it comfortable.

Height is okay on any of them and correct I don't want to do much work on the bike. I've been trying to figure out the other flavors of the Hawk like you listed to see the best package. I'd prefer a carburetor bike for simplicity. Trying to keep the price down since it's bike #3 which has led me to the Hawk or X. X does seem like a lot of bike for the $$$. Good to hear about the "motorcycle" status on the MCO of the X. In Washington state you can get a plate on a dirt bike but you have to put DOT stuff on it to pass a $100 inspection. That's how I got a plate on my CR but for this bike I want to avoid that process. It's encouraging to hear your points about the getting "Motorcycle" on the MCO.

Also I would probably only keep this bike for a season or two.

[Megadan]

My own opinion about the Hawk vs. Brozz and the whole inverted forks things. I find them over rated. Functionally the only real advantage they have is rigidity. Something easily offset with a cheap fork brace.

I do like the Brozz though just for the improved overall quality of Bashan bikes out of the box. My one caveat to picking the Brozz - make sure it is a 2022 Recon. They now come with 21" front and 18" rear wheels. Don't get the 19/17 wheel combo as it greatly limits tire selection.

The Brozz and Hawk also come with 15hp. Don't cheat them out of that 1 hp lol. They are also fairly choked off and not too hard to bump the power up to around 17hp without major engine work. Their strength isn't hp though but torque. For a small air cooled 1cyl they chug along pretty good.

The Engine on the Hawk is not Zongshen made btw. Not sure about the Brozz. AFAIK the only true Zongshen made engine sold on a Hawk-like bike in the US is the CSC TT250 which is a Zongshen produced bike. The Hawk comes with a generic 167FMM (No ZS markings).

No matter what Hawk-like bike you would pick it is important to understand that these bikes are not dirt bikes. They are utilitarian bikes meant to fill the role of unpaved roads and dual track mixed with romps on pavement. They have a full frame with big seats to carry people and cargo. They don't have the suspension travel of a proper dirt bike - aka not really meant for people with MX dreams.

[Huck369]

The Tank shrouds and side plate/rear fender are copies of the 2007 RMZ250, so easy to come by in yellow, or black

[Thumper]

I forgot about the full sized wheels on the Recon. But you can find knobbies including DOT approved knobbies in the 19"/17" sizes.
I do like the out of the box stiffness of the inverted forks (Bashan models and the Templars). Templar M is an outstanding value, but it doesn't come with a luggage rack. If this is no problem, this bike comes with the 5 speed ZS172FMM. It is a really nice engine.

MegaDan has a thread describing a front fork upgrade for the Hawk that makes them perform well with mild bumps, then engages a smaller port with harder bumps that controls dive better and improves damping and rebound.

Powersportsmax has lots of parts for the Templars in stock, and they can order most other parts from Zuumav supplier. I haven't needed much, but they got me a front wheel and a starter both under warranty, no questions asked (they just wanted photos showing issues).

Templar X is well equipped upon arrival and it is all DOT approved, street legal...and it gets the 19hp engine, 6 speed, grippy light/tough bear claw footpegs, folding short shifter, nice luggage rack with mounts for side racks coming soon, fully adjustable suspension (separate compression and rebound settings on both ends, plus preload rear spring adjustment), adjustable brake and clutch levers, full sized wheels with decent tires mounted, rim locks, and an amazingly stiff and tough enduro scaled frame that still comes in at under 270lbs ($10k - 15k KTM Husq, etc come in at about 260lbs). That is an accomplishment! On the seat... I have never been uncomfortable on the seat, but my rides are 2 hours max. There is more foam under there than it appears. I am about 190lbs, and I fit well on the bike. At 5'10", it feels like a cadillac once I am rolling. I won't ever push it beyond it's limits, even though I am pretty aggressive. I just wish my should would allow me to jump higher. It is the landings that threaten my shoulder!

These are all crate bikes, and you have to put them together. You will have to rejet, presumably, but the rest is adjusting and positioning controls to suit your preferences.

[Sport Rider]

I'd go with the Templar X because it's a true 250 (249.9cc) and also the 6 speed gearbox which will be of GREAT value on paved roads.

[tknj99]

Following suit, and owning both a Brozz (with 21/18) and the Templar X, i also vote for the Templar X, so much fun, great power (more than the modded Brozz), 6th gear to get you to 70mph (with a 42T Rear sprocket) and adjustable front and rear suspension and beefy frame/headset/bars/swingarm.

[severely]

Hawk, because of the seat and fuel capacity.

[Megadan]

If one of these companies wanted a real winner they would offer something equivalent to the KPX250 for Brozz level prices.

Basically if the Brozz had a carbed version of the 172 engine for about the same price it currently sells for I don't think they would keep it in stock.

[Texas Pete]

I love Lifan, they have some really good bikes but they don't have the KPX250 at Brozz level prices so I went through my list of wants and sorted out what I could live without. EFI dropped off my list and Templar X 250 it became. Once you get into the 3k range I would rather go Royal Enfield with their state of the art factory putting out the cleanest engines, cleaner inside than Japanese motors and of course every bike they sell having a 3 year warranty and 3 years of road side assistance if you break down both of which can transfer to the next buyer of your bike if the 3 years has not expired yet.

[DSAdventures]

Originally Posted by Megadan

...My own opinion about the Hawk vs. Brozz and the whole inverted forks things. I find them over rated....

...19/17 wheel combo as it greatly limits tire selection....


...No matter what Hawk-like bike you would pick it is important to understand that these bikes are not dirt bikes. They are utilitarian bikes meant to fill the role of unpaved roads and dual track mixed with romps on pavement. They have a full frame with big seats to carry people and cargo. They don't have the suspension travel of a proper dirt bike - aka not really meant for people with MX dreams....

I think of the Hawk as a wheels on the ground bike, meaning it's best to ride it in such a way that the wheels stay on the ground. I am sure the suspension and bike in general are way to soft too handle any jumping or ripping across the tops of whoops. I am not targeting any riding needing this bike to leave the ground, however my older nephew would probably like to get airborne. I actually see the conventional forks as reducing plastic that can get banged up on USD forks so one less thing for me to deal with.

Definitely only doing a 21/18 wheeled biked.

[DSAdventures]

Originally Posted by Huck369

The Tank shrouds and side plate/rear fender are copies of the 2007 RMZ250, so easy to come by in yellow, or black

Huck, I saw this somewhere too that 07 RMZ plastic would fit but I never saw that someone actually did it and made it happen. Do you know of someone that actually tried it? Or have you seen in documented with pictures? From looking at pictures it looks like RMZ plastic would fit but looks can be deceiving. It would be awesome if this is the case.

[DSAdventures]

Originally Posted by tknj99

Following suit, and owning both a Brozz (with 21/18) and the Templar X...

Thanks for chiming in, which seat do you like for longer rides?

[DSAdventures]

Originally Posted by severely

Hawk, because of the seat and fuel capacity.

For longer DS rides I'd be on the KLR and someone else will be on the Hawk or X. The KLR carries 6 gallons of fuel so it can act as a tanker for either bike. The seat though is definitely something I am wondering about.