Zongshen Dakar bike and RX4 - Page 6

Biker_Andy · 01-11-2017, 04:35 PM

I am very interested in who will be participating in Dakar 2018. Will Zongshen go all out and double down with top notch riders and more bikes or will they give up and not compete ever again? The Chinese are extremely determined and calculated. I wouldn't be surprised if this was more of a proof of concept than a competition for them. From a manufacturers standpoint it's all about public perception. Will people think Zongshen showed determination and engineering might for simply attempting Dakar or will this look like a failure to the public? If they get good press for their efforts I can't see them stopping but if this gets bad press then they won't likely compete again. In today's world clickbait rules and a story of a Chinese bike not finishing the race might get a lot of (bad) attention. I am saddened that Zongshen didn't finish the race and worried this might end up strengthen stereotypes.

culcune · 01-11-2017, 06:18 PM

My guess is they thought they were ready. I am not sure if it is still held, but China has its own desert rally called the Taklimakan Rally http://www.taklimakanrally.com/en/ which many Chinese bike brands have won in the past, although it is not as difficult by any stretch of the imagination as the Dakar. Not sure if Zongshen participated in any of them (the rally began in 2005), but I remember a sub brand of Yinhe, who produce the XTR 250 which is still sold by Pitster Pro, won it way back in the mid 2000s over European brands who participated. We had kept tabs on the rally via mychinamoto.com and it proved to us Chinese bike enthusiasts that Chinese bikes are not that bad. Again, have not researched any of the recent history to see if Zongshen participated in any of the rallies, but I could imagine them thinking, 'why go with child's play when we can do the real deal' or something like that, and threw a budget and bikes towards Dakar (actually S. America which is no where near Dakar).

Do they have the engineering capabilities or budget to hire those with the engineering budget? I think so with all their joint ventures, such as with Piagio and whoever else they partner/OEM with.

AdventureDad · 01-11-2017, 08:57 PM

Hopefully, they realized that they got some egg (foo-yung) (I apologize if this is not p.c., but I was born before the politically correct movement) on their face with this failure. I hope that they try again, with better bikes, better riders, and make a good showing. It'd go a long way in name recognition, brand acceptance and R/D for their products. Biker Andy had a salient point, in that this could harm them more than help them, in that the naysayers will have strength to their argument that Chinese bikes can't cut it.

pete · 01-11-2017, 09:47 PM

May also be a good thing that they failed in such a big way
They must have thought they were ready... Now can see they
are not where they thought they were....
Hopefuly they are thinking ...Time to pick our game up
so we can play with the big boys...

.

BlackBike · 01-11-2017, 10:12 PM

The problem I am having is that I can't find out any info on what happened!!! Perhaps I don't know where to look? Or perhaps it's not being reported due to its obscurity as a brand.

. In my view, the lack of information will fuel the pessimism for the brand.

Jay In Milpitas · 01-12-2017, 12:28 AM

I was hoping Dan (Danimal) would post here. He shared info from one of the team from their FB page on some other forum. Something about the day that the 4 DNF'd being a result of two taking too long to complete a section, and two injured, a broken arm and another with spine damage.

Theirry's crash & burn was just common bad luck.

AdventureDad · 01-12-2017, 09:45 PM

Jay...I "may" be wrong, but I seem to remember Dan was banned from this forum.

fjmartin · 01-12-2017, 11:04 PM

He is

rojo_grande · 01-13-2017, 12:02 AM

I see this as more of a glass half full situation plus a huge "attaboy" for Zongshen having the cajones to put their product out there to the highest test. I also think the expectations were fairly low for a rookie team no matter if they were on China bikes or otherwise. The CB haters are gonna hate no matter how well or poorly the team fared.

Yeah, we all would have liked them to get deeper into the race. Also bear in mind the attrition rate at Dakar is ~50+%. The engine appeared to hold up fairly well. The riders got injured or DNF'd. A lot of other seasoned Dakar riders crashed out, got injured, had mechanical issues, navigation issues as well. And, a bike crashing and burning from a fuel spill is not that uncommon hence the well known phrase "crash and burn".

In general, this is a great R&D experiment for Zongshen. I hope they learned a lot of lessons that will translate to better bikes for us in the near future. I also hope they field a team for 2018. If nothing else, the armchair rally riders will have something to talk about in the middle of winter next year.

Rojo

Inroads · 01-13-2017, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdventureDad

Jay...I "may" be wrong, but I seem to remember Dan was banned from this forum.

Speaking of contributors we don't see around any more...

Don't hear much from Spud anymore...maybe he got burned out...it happens.

Also Detours...he was an active poster for awhile..might have sold his bike.

AdventureDad · 01-13-2017, 04:53 PM

Miss those guys...they were a wealth of knowledge

ben2go · 01-14-2017, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdventureDad

Miss those guys...they were a wealth of knowledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inroads

Speaking of contributors we don't see around any more...

Don't hear much from Spud anymore...maybe he got burned out...it happens.

Also Detours...he was an active poster for awhile..might have sold his bike.

It's left up to us then.

Azhule · 01-14-2017, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inroads

Also Detours...he was an active poster for awhile..might have sold his bike.

Detours has been busy spending a lot of time with family last I knew (was about a month or so back)

, hope all is going well with him... I might just have to get if my ace and give him a call

culcune · 01-14-2017, 04:06 PM

Speaking of testing using races--Zongshen should look into putting their bikes into the SCORE Baja races; they progressively move up from the Baja 250, to the 500, to the 1000. Not as tough as the Dakar, but definitely NOT a ride down the boulevard, either! Progressively moving up from the 250 to the 500, to the 1000 (actually 1300 miles) would allow them time to gather data, as well as tweak things the way they need tweaking. CSCDude--I know you know a few people at Zongshen...

BlackBike · 02-04-2017, 08:59 PM

Forcasted cost rate-feb 2017... 5500 Euro or $5932.02 US Dollar or 4750.94 British Pound

42.91 horsepower.

Max speed 99.4194 mph

Seat height 32.3 inches ...

Ground clearance...7.87402 inches with stock 17/18 rims

5.28344 us gal tank

Weight 429.901 pounds

01-11-2017, 06:18 PM	#77
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	My guess is they thought they were ready. I am not sure if it is still held, but China has its own desert rally called the Taklimakan Rally http://www.taklimakanrally.com/en/ which many Chinese bike brands have won in the past, although it is not as difficult by any stretch of the imagination as the Dakar. Not sure if Zongshen participated in any of them (the rally began in 2005), but I remember a sub brand of Yinhe, who produce the XTR 250 which is still sold by Pitster Pro, won it way back in the mid 2000s over European brands who participated. We had kept tabs on the rally via mychinamoto.com and it proved to us Chinese bike enthusiasts that Chinese bikes are not that bad. Again, have not researched any of the recent history to see if Zongshen participated in any of the rallies, but I could imagine them thinking, 'why go with child's play when we can do the real deal' or something like that, and threw a budget and bikes towards Dakar (actually S. America which is no where near Dakar). Do they have the engineering capabilities or budget to hire those with the engineering budget? I think so with all their joint ventures, such as with Piagio and whoever else they partner/OEM with. __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	3

01-11-2017, 09:47 PM	#79
pete Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: ChCh , NZ Posts: 2,261	May also be a good thing that they failed in such a big way They must have thought they were ready... Now can see they are not where they thought they were.... Hopefuly they are thinking ...Time to pick our game up so we can play with the big boys... . __________________ 09 XT660R ... 06 TTR250 ... 80 Montesa H6 125 Enduro... 77 Montesa Cota 348 MRR "Malcom Rathnell Replica"... Current resto projects.. 81 Honda CT110... 80 Kawasaki KL250A1... 11 Husaburg TE125 enduro... "sold" along with another 31... Lifan 125 Pitbike.. "stolen" ... KIWI BIKER FORUM...... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/content.php All the best offroad rides in NZ... http://www.remotemoto.com/ E-mail... xtpete1@gmail.com
	1

01-11-2017, 10:12 PM	#80
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	The problem I am having is that I can't find out any info on what happened!!! Perhaps I don't know where to look? Or perhaps it's not being reported due to its obscurity as a brand. . In my view, the lack of information will fuel the pessimism for the brand. __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~ Last edited by BlackBike; 01-12-2017 at 12:47 PM. Reason: Syntax correct
	0

01-12-2017, 11:04 PM	#83
fjmartin Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Redmond, WA. Posts: 534	He is __________________ 2017 BMW F800GS Adventure
	0

01-13-2017, 12:02 AM	#84
rojo_grande Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Weston, CO & Sangre de Cristos Posts: 240	I see this as more of a glass half full situation plus a huge "attaboy" for Zongshen having the cajones to put their product out there to the highest test. I also think the expectations were fairly low for a rookie team no matter if they were on China bikes or otherwise. The CB haters are gonna hate no matter how well or poorly the team fared. Yeah, we all would have liked them to get deeper into the race. Also bear in mind the attrition rate at Dakar is ~50+%. The engine appeared to hold up fairly well. The riders got injured or DNF'd. A lot of other seasoned Dakar riders crashed out, got injured, had mechanical issues, navigation issues as well. And, a bike crashing and burning from a fuel spill is not that uncommon hence the well known phrase "crash and burn". In general, this is a great R&D experiment for Zongshen. I hope they learned a lot of lessons that will translate to better bikes for us in the near future. I also hope they field a team for 2018. If nothing else, the armchair rally riders will have something to talk about in the middle of winter next year. Rojo __________________ '15 RX3 (Rojo's) '15 RX3 (marzhere's) '16 TT250
	3

01-11-2017, 04:35 PM	#76
Biker_Andy Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 347	I am very interested in who will be participating in Dakar 2018. Will Zongshen go all out and double down with top notch riders and more bikes or will they give up and not compete ever again? The Chinese are extremely determined and calculated. I wouldn't be surprised if this was more of a proof of concept than a competition for them. From a manufacturers standpoint it's all about public perception. Will people think Zongshen showed determination and engineering might for simply attempting Dakar or will this look like a failure to the public? If they get good press for their efforts I can't see them stopping but if this gets bad press then they won't likely compete again. In today's world clickbait rules and a story of a Chinese bike not finishing the race might get a lot of (bad) attention. I am saddened that Zongshen didn't finish the race and worried this might end up strengthen stereotypes.
	1

01-11-2017, 08:57 PM	#78
AdventureDad Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 253	Hopefully, they realized that they got some egg (foo-yung) (I apologize if this is not p.c., but I was born before the politically correct movement) on their face with this failure. I hope that they try again, with better bikes, better riders, and make a good showing. It'd go a long way in name recognition, brand acceptance and R/D for their products. Biker Andy had a salient point, in that this could harm them more than help them, in that the naysayers will have strength to their argument that Chinese bikes can't cut it.
	1

01-12-2017, 12:28 AM	#81
Jay In Milpitas Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Milpitas, CA. USA Posts: 775	I was hoping Dan (Danimal) would post here. He shared info from one of the team from their FB page on some other forum. Something about the day that the 4 DNF'd being a result of two taking too long to complete a section, and two injured, a broken arm and another with spine damage. Theirry's crash & burn was just common bad luck.
	3

01-12-2017, 09:45 PM	#82
AdventureDad Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 253	Jay...I "may" be wrong, but I seem to remember Dan was banned from this forum.
	0

01-13-2017, 04:53 PM	#86
AdventureDad Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 253	Miss those guys...they were a wealth of knowledge
	2

01-14-2017, 04:06 PM	#89
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	Speaking of testing using races--Zongshen should look into putting their bikes into the SCORE Baja races; they progressively move up from the Baja 250, to the 500, to the 1000. Not as tough as the Dakar, but definitely NOT a ride down the boulevard, either! Progressively moving up from the 250 to the 500, to the 1000 (actually 1300 miles) would allow them time to gather data, as well as tweak things the way they need tweaking. CSCDude--I know you know a few people at Zongshen... __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	1

02-04-2017, 08:59 PM	#90
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Rx4 specs Forcasted cost rate-feb 2017... 5500 Euro or $5932.02 US Dollar or 4750.94 British Pound 42.91 horsepower. Max speed 99.4194 mph Seat height 32.3 inches ... Ground clearance...7.87402 inches with stock 17/18 rims 5.28344 us gal tank Weight 429.901 pounds __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	0