PA won't register or title ANY VIN starting with "L&quo

Al_From_PA · 11-26-2008, 03:43 PM

Pennsylvania has denied me twice on registering and titling my '09 American Lifan. A new rule took effect in September, which says. Any VIN starting with "L" goes to a special unit now, where they are denied and returned to the owners. The letter claims ther MCO is incorrect. I spoke to American Lifan, and they disagree with PennDot, telling me EVERY digit of the VIN and MCO are correct. Digit by digit, they went over it, and it's correct, they say.
My bike ( '09 American Lifan 200GY-5) was purchased legitimately from American Lifan in Texas, through Motoxtreme. Of course, Motoxtreme closes down the week after I received the bike.
So now, I have PennDot telling to get a corrected MCO, and American Lifan is insisting the MCO is correct, and that it's PennDot mistake, not their's.

Here's the reply from PennDot -

This latest refusal letter says:

" Title applications for two and three-wheeled motorcycles with a VIN that begins with letter "L" came into question because of discrepancies discovered between the Manufacturers Certificate of Origin (MCO) and the "Manufacturers" data base maintained by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

"The data base maintained by NHTSA lists information, required by federal regulations, on each manufacturer including their "World Manufacturers Identification Number (WMI) which are the first three characters of their VIN and a decoding of their required 17 digit VIN number.

A review of of your MCO shows a discepancy in the following area(s):

"The following VIN positions DO NOT match the manufacturer's decoding documentation:

(they circled the 4th, 5th ,6th, 10th, and 11th VIN positions)

You are urged to contact the dealer or individual who sold you the vehicle to determine if they can assist you in obtaining a corrected MCO.

If you were issued a temporary license plate, be advised that since no title or registration will be issued for the vehicle, it may NOT be driven.

By the way. I purchased it from Motoxtreme one week before he closed down. Brian from the closed-down Motoxtreme is unreachable.
I was recommended to Motoxtreme by someone named Arron from American Lifan.

ANYONE from Pennsylvania BEWARE !! You will not get your China Bike registered ANYTIME soon.

Here's a few link to read about this nightmare:

http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews....jsp?id=564901

http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews...ategoryId=2704

http://fav.or.it/post/756275/penndot...chinese-scoots

I value any suggestions you guys might have to solve this nightmare. Going to court isn't my first choice, but if I must, I will.

Maybe this should be a STICKY thread, so nobody else becomes a victim like me.

~Al

Cal25 · 11-19-2009, 08:38 AM

Any updates to share from anyone trying to register a bike in Pa.?

Oengus · 01-03-2010, 08:36 PM

I found the documentation online for the VIN on my Qingqi I just purchased through Qlink. Its a 2008 200XP Qlink is the distributer.

ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/mfrmail/ORG4828.pdf

It checks out....its accurate.

Here are some links that may help anyone that needs to understand what the VIN number means.

The rules: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...o/mcpkg007.pdf
Find manufactures: www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/manufacture

You really need to know who manufactures the motorcycle and then they need to be registered with NHTSA then get the VIN and check to see if it is recorded correctly.

The search form uses %wildcards% I found mine with %qingqi because it is a Jinan Qingqi. That is the manufacturer, it says plant B in Jinan Qingqi.

The code is from the manufacturer and the WMI is assigned by the SAE
http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/groundvehicle/vin.htm

here is a 2009 filing for Lifan
ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/mfrmail/ORG6185.pdf
here is 2009 for Zongshen
ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/mfrmail/ORG6179.pdf

fishman10 · 01-10-2010, 10:07 PM

Ijust got my zong registered in PA,your certificate of origin must be on that fancy paper with correct matching # , then you must get a form for vin# verification and take it to the state police or a licenced PA inspection mechanic and get them to verify and sign it.It doesn't hurt that zongshen is in the national database of approved vendors that has provided the feds with the correct vin decoder for their models.

Oengus · 01-10-2010, 11:17 PM

The paper should conform to security standards established by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) :

1. Paper
(a) Sensitized Security Paper--paper that is reactive to chemicals commonly used to alter documents.
(b) Non-Optical Brightener Paper--paper without added optical brighteners that will not fluoresce under ultraviolet light.

2. Engraved Border--a border produced from engraved artwork that shall appear on the front of the document.

3. (a) Prismatic--rainbow printing that is used as a deterrent to color copying, and/or
(b) Copy Void Pantograph--the word â€œvoidâ€ appears when the document is copied.

4. Complex Colors--colors that are developed by using a mixture of two or more of the primary colors (red, yellow, or blue) and black if required.

5. Erasable Fluorescent Background Inks--fluoresces under ultraviolet light and reacts to any attempt to erase in such a manner as to be immediately detectable.

6. Background Security Design--a repetitious design consisting of a pattern that hinders counterfeiting efforts.

7. Microline--a line of small alpha characters in capitol letters that requires a magnifying glass to read.

8. Consecutively Numbered--documents that contain a number that is consecutively numbered for control purposes.

9. (a) Security Thread--with or without watermark, and/or
(b) Intaglio Print--with or without latent image.

DOCUMENT SIZE--â€œCertificates of Originâ€ size specifications shall be seven 7 inches by eight 8 inches.

PAPER STOCK--Sixty (60) pound offset or equivalent durability.

CONSTRUCTION--Unless otherwise specified by the user, the form should be constructed and fan-folded for use on high-speed pinfed computer printer and/or continuous typewriters.

LAYOUT--Text matter space for 1/10-inch horizontal and 1/6 inch deep characters per AAMVA H12 Policy for standard format.

FACILITY SECURITY--To insure the integrity of the manufacturerâ€™s â€œCertificate of Originâ€ the user should require the vendor to maintain secure printing and storage facilities.

Why? Because otherwise it could be counterfited.

kimberlygbianco · 07-15-2011, 01:19 AM

I just bought 2 roketa mc-17 150cc motor scooters via the web. I managed to get them registered with out a problem. The new penndot scooter laws are easy to deal with. I got panicked when I read the threads here because people make it sound impossible to do.

Here its what to do.

If your bike/scooters vin# starts with any number other then M you must first have the merchandise order/ mco (its your proof of purchase or receipt)

then find the vin on your bike/scooter. You have 3 choices as to your next step. The first and easiest is to get a crayon and paper, place the paper over the vin on the bike/scooter and using a crayon on its side make a rubbing of the vin, make sure it is very easy to read. Second choice is to take the bike/scooter to a state licensed repair / inspection garage to have a mechanic verify that the vin matches the mco. Third you can take the bike/scooter thi the police for them to verify the vin and mco match. Finally you can bring it to the notary when you go and they check it. The problem with all but the first option is it is illegal to drive the bike/scooter until it is registered.

Once you have done one of the above choices you go to the notary (it must be one of the big ones a chain like Yurkonic) and take the mco and any other paper work you have and they will file with the special titles decision in harrisburg for a title. At this point if you haven't paid sales tax they will make you pay it.
After 2-4 weeks you will receive your title as long as the vin on the bike and the paperwork match.

After that you can go back to the notary and get your registration and license plate.

I hope this is helpful to anyone looking for a fun time on your scooter :-)[/list]

dmmcd · 07-15-2011, 08:15 AM

I went through a similar process to get my Qlink XF200 registered in PA. I didn't need the VIN rubbing, though.

It is sort of a pain and takes a few weeks, but for me it worked out in the end.

fishman10 · 07-17-2011, 11:29 AM

The main PA DMV in harrisburg would not accept the vin tracing.So I had to get the vin verification form filled out and took the bike to a state certified inspection mechanic and have him verify and sign form with his state certification # on it then i was back to to state with all the other necessary paperwork and ,got the bike legal!!! It was even tougher with the pitster but thats another story!

SpudRider · 07-18-2011, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimberlygbianco

I just bought 2 roketa mc-17 150cc motor scooters via the web. I managed to get them registered with out a problem. The new penndot scooter laws are easy to deal with. I got panicked when I read the threads here because people make it sound impossible to do.

Here its what to do.

If your bike/scooters vin# starts with any number other then M you must first have the merchandise order/ mco (its your proof of purchase or receipt)

then find the vin on your bike/scooter. You have 3 choices as to your next step. The first and easiest is to get a crayon and paper, place the paper over the vin on the bike/scooter and using a crayon on its side make a rubbing of the vin, make sure it is very easy to read. Second choice is to take the bike/scooter to a state licensed repair / inspection garage to have a mechanic verify that the vin matches the mco. Third you can take the bike/scooter thi the police for them to verify the vin and mco match. Finally you can bring it to the notary when you go and they check it. The problem with all but the first option is it is illegal to drive the bike/scooter until it is registered.

Once you have done one of the above choices you go to the notary (it must be one of the big ones a chain like Yurkonic) and take the mco and any other paper work you have and they will file with the special titles decision in harrisburg for a title. At this point if you haven't paid sales tax they will make you pay it.
After 2-4 weeks you will receive your title as long as the vin on the bike and the paperwork match.

After that you can go back to the notary and get your registration and license plate.

I hope this is helpful to anyone looking for a fun time on your scooter :-)[/list]

Welcome to these forums; we are glad you joined us, Kimberly! I'm pleased to hear you had an easy time getting a license plate for your scooter.

Spud

Dizball250 · 07-17-2012, 09:18 PM

I fear my trip to penndot will not be as easy.

Wool-Z · 07-17-2012, 10:09 PM

After reading this thread it is bringing back memories from 4 years ago when I went threw this very same process. Had crap MCO to start after getting a good one, they asked for bill of sale, didn't have it, got it. Then came the kicker, girl didn't like or want to accept my vin rub. There's an emissions plate on the swing arm with VIN on it that is held on with pop rivets. Well out came rivets & girl had vin plate laying on her counter. It was a very long day and I think she realized I wasn't leavin without a title & registration, she kinda laughed looked @ me like I was nuts & did my paper work. Have faith & be optimistic. If your MCO says nothing bout off road only I think you should be OK. It might even pay to go to notary n let them deal with PennDot. Got any friends who knows somebody that knows somebody? lol

Dizball250 · 07-17-2012, 11:14 PM

My aunt is an auto dealer/notary does that help?

fishman10 · 07-18-2012, 06:39 PM

no knowing a notary will not help as in other states,,,,you have to go to the state,,,Just go down to harrisburg with your mso,bill of sale,,vin verification form,,,(easily obtained from notary) get a certified inspection mechanic to sign with his number,,and proof of motorcylce insurance if you want to get tags,, an give it a try,,,,,it took me three tries,but i got it done,,,,The vin. verification is a must !!!!! some of the clerks won't accept a vin tracing// rubbing.PA license brokers (a large notary chain) told me they were not allowed to put the chinese vin's thru,,,that i must go directly to state,,,,and don't be surprised if the clerk calls in ththe supervisor to handle it,just be polite and ask what you need to to to make it right.I've been thru it twice now with the zong and pitsterpro and it wasnt easy!

sportriderrr · 10-16-2013, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishman10

no knowing a notary will not help as in other states,,,,you have to go to the state,,,Just go down to harrisburg with your mso,bill of sale,,vin verification form,,,(easily obtained from notary) get a certified inspection mechanic to sign with his number,,and proof of motorcylce insurance if you want to get tags,, an give it a try,,,,,it took me three tries,but i got it done,,,,The vin. verification is a must !!!!! some of the clerks won't accept a vin tracing// rubbing.PA license brokers (a large notary chain) told me they were not allowed to put the chinese vin's thru,,,that i must go directly to state,,,,and don't be surprised if the clerk calls in ththe supervisor to handle it,just be polite and ask what you need to to to make it right.I've been thru it twice now with the zong and pitsterpro and it wasnt easy!

good to know! Thanks for the info!

HappyAndy · 02-07-2016, 04:18 PM

Is this problem still going on in Pennsylvania? I'm thinking about getting a Lifan Pony to buzz around the neighborhood. I'm wondering if its worth trying for a PA title & reg, or if I should just go straight to Vermont. Has anyone in in PA been hassled for riding on a VT plate? I've seen a few Jap bikes riding around with them, but haven't had a chance to talk to the owners. It's also my understanding that PA is funny about transferring in out of state China bike titles too.

I read over on mychinamoto that I he Pony is recognized as a 49 state legal bike by the feds ( I will do my own homework to confirm) , but the PA state government is notoriously disfunctional these days, so my expectations are low.

11-26-2008, 03:43 PM	#1
Al_From_PA Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Backwardsville, Pennsylvania Posts: 4	PA won't register or title ANY VIN starting with "L&quo Pennsylvania has denied me twice on registering and titling my '09 American Lifan. A new rule took effect in September, which says. Any VIN starting with "L" goes to a special unit now, where they are denied and returned to the owners. The letter claims ther MCO is incorrect. I spoke to American Lifan, and they disagree with PennDot, telling me EVERY digit of the VIN and MCO are correct. Digit by digit, they went over it, and it's correct, they say. My bike ( '09 American Lifan 200GY-5) was purchased legitimately from American Lifan in Texas, through Motoxtreme. Of course, Motoxtreme closes down the week after I received the bike. So now, I have PennDot telling to get a corrected MCO, and American Lifan is insisting the MCO is correct, and that it's PennDot mistake, not their's. Here's the reply from PennDot - This latest refusal letter says: " Title applications for two and three-wheeled motorcycles with a VIN that begins with letter "L" came into question because of discrepancies discovered between the Manufacturers Certificate of Origin (MCO) and the "Manufacturers" data base maintained by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) "The data base maintained by NHTSA lists information, required by federal regulations, on each manufacturer including their "World Manufacturers Identification Number (WMI) which are the first three characters of their VIN and a decoding of their required 17 digit VIN number. A review of of your MCO shows a discepancy in the following area(s): "The following VIN positions DO NOT match the manufacturer's decoding documentation: (they circled the 4th, 5th ,6th, 10th, and 11th VIN positions) You are urged to contact the dealer or individual who sold you the vehicle to determine if they can assist you in obtaining a corrected MCO. If you were issued a temporary license plate, be advised that since no title or registration will be issued for the vehicle, it may NOT be driven. By the way. I purchased it from Motoxtreme one week before he closed down. Brian from the closed-down Motoxtreme is unreachable. I was recommended to Motoxtreme by someone named Arron from American Lifan. ANYONE from Pennsylvania BEWARE !! You will not get your China Bike registered ANYTIME soon. Here's a few link to read about this nightmare: http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews....jsp?id=564901 http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews...ategoryId=2704 http://fav.or.it/post/756275/penndot...chinese-scoots I value any suggestions you guys might have to solve this nightmare. Going to court isn't my first choice, but if I must, I will. Maybe this should be a STICKY thread, so nobody else becomes a victim like me. ~Al
	0

01-03-2010, 08:36 PM	#3
Oengus Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 826	VIN and registration I found the documentation online for the VIN on my Qingqi I just purchased through Qlink. Its a 2008 200XP Qlink is the distributer. ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/mfrmail/ORG4828.pdf It checks out....its accurate. Here are some links that may help anyone that needs to understand what the VIN number means. The rules: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...o/mcpkg007.pdf Find manufactures: www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/manufacture You really need to know who manufactures the motorcycle and then they need to be registered with NHTSA then get the VIN and check to see if it is recorded correctly. The search form uses %wildcards% I found mine with %qingqi because it is a Jinan Qingqi. That is the manufacturer, it says plant B in Jinan Qingqi. The code is from the manufacturer and the WMI is assigned by the SAE http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/groundvehicle/vin.htm here is a 2009 filing for Lifan ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/mfrmail/ORG6185.pdf here is 2009 for Zongshen ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/mfrmail/ORG6179.pdf
	0

01-10-2010, 10:07 PM	#4
fishman10 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: central PA Posts: 770	registration in PA Ijust got my zong registered in PA,your certificate of origin must be on that fancy paper with correct matching # , then you must get a form for vin# verification and take it to the state police or a licenced PA inspection mechanic and get them to verify and sign it.It doesn't hurt that zongshen is in the national database of approved vendors that has provided the feds with the correct vin decoder for their models.
	0

07-15-2011, 01:19 AM	#6
kimberlygbianco Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1	Penndot scooter registratiom I just bought 2 roketa mc-17 150cc motor scooters via the web. I managed to get them registered with out a problem. The new penndot scooter laws are easy to deal with. I got panicked when I read the threads here because people make it sound impossible to do. Here its what to do. If your bike/scooters vin# starts with any number other then M you must first have the merchandise order/ mco (its your proof of purchase or receipt) then find the vin on your bike/scooter. You have 3 choices as to your next step. The first and easiest is to get a crayon and paper, place the paper over the vin on the bike/scooter and using a crayon on its side make a rubbing of the vin, make sure it is very easy to read. Second choice is to take the bike/scooter to a state licensed repair / inspection garage to have a mechanic verify that the vin matches the mco. Third you can take the bike/scooter thi the police for them to verify the vin and mco match. Finally you can bring it to the notary when you go and they check it. The problem with all but the first option is it is illegal to drive the bike/scooter until it is registered. Once you have done one of the above choices you go to the notary (it must be one of the big ones a chain like Yurkonic) and take the mco and any other paper work you have and they will file with the special titles decision in harrisburg for a title. At this point if you haven't paid sales tax they will make you pay it. After 2-4 weeks you will receive your title as long as the vin on the bike and the paperwork match. After that you can go back to the notary and get your registration and license plate. I hope this is helpful to anyone looking for a fun time on your scooter :-)[/list]
	0

07-15-2011, 08:15 AM	#7
dmmcd Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Souderton, PA Posts: 367	I went through a similar process to get my Qlink XF200 registered in PA. I didn't need the VIN rubbing, though. It is sort of a pain and takes a few weeks, but for me it worked out in the end. __________________ 2008 Yamaha WR250x 2006 Honda CRF250R Sold: 2002 Suzuki SV650S, 2009 Qlink XF200
	0

11-19-2009, 08:38 AM	#2
Cal25 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Terrell and Grapevine Tx. Posts: 1,585	Any updates to share from anyone trying to register a bike in Pa.?
	0

01-10-2010, 11:17 PM	#5
Oengus Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 826	The paper should conform to security standards established by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) : 1. Paper (a) Sensitized Security Paper--paper that is reactive to chemicals commonly used to alter documents. (b) Non-Optical Brightener Paper--paper without added optical brighteners that will not fluoresce under ultraviolet light. 2. Engraved Border--a border produced from engraved artwork that shall appear on the front of the document. 3. (a) Prismatic--rainbow printing that is used as a deterrent to color copying, and/or (b) Copy Void Pantograph--the word â€œvoidâ€ appears when the document is copied. 4. Complex Colors--colors that are developed by using a mixture of two or more of the primary colors (red, yellow, or blue) and black if required. 5. Erasable Fluorescent Background Inks--fluoresces under ultraviolet light and reacts to any attempt to erase in such a manner as to be immediately detectable. 6. Background Security Design--a repetitious design consisting of a pattern that hinders counterfeiting efforts. 7. Microline--a line of small alpha characters in capitol letters that requires a magnifying glass to read. 8. Consecutively Numbered--documents that contain a number that is consecutively numbered for control purposes. 9. (a) Security Thread--with or without watermark, and/or (b) Intaglio Print--with or without latent image. DOCUMENT SIZE--â€œCertificates of Originâ€ size specifications shall be seven 7 inches by eight 8 inches. PAPER STOCK--Sixty (60) pound offset or equivalent durability. CONSTRUCTION--Unless otherwise specified by the user, the form should be constructed and fan-folded for use on high-speed pinfed computer printer and/or continuous typewriters. LAYOUT--Text matter space for 1/10-inch horizontal and 1/6 inch deep characters per AAMVA H12 Policy for standard format. FACILITY SECURITY--To insure the integrity of the manufacturerâ€™s â€œCertificate of Originâ€ the user should require the vendor to maintain secure printing and storage facilities. Why? Because otherwise it could be counterfited.
	0

07-17-2011, 11:29 AM	#8
fishman10 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: central PA Posts: 770	pa DMV The main PA DMV in harrisburg would not accept the vin tracing.So I had to get the vin verification form filled out and took the bike to a state certified inspection mechanic and have him verify and sign form with his state certification # on it then i was back to to state with all the other necessary paperwork and ,got the bike legal!!! It was even tougher with the pitster but thats another story! __________________ 2015 zongshen rx3,,(Sold),,,2016 bashan storm,,2005 Harley ultra classic.
	0

07-17-2012, 09:18 PM	#10
Dizball250 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Central, Pa Posts: 39	I fear my trip to penndot will not be as easy.
	0

07-17-2012, 10:09 PM	#11
Wool-Z Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Grantville, PA Posts: 78	After reading this thread it is bringing back memories from 4 years ago when I went threw this very same process. Had crap MCO to start after getting a good one, they asked for bill of sale, didn't have it, got it. Then came the kicker, girl didn't like or want to accept my vin rub. There's an emissions plate on the swing arm with VIN on it that is held on with pop rivets. Well out came rivets & girl had vin plate laying on her counter. It was a very long day and I think she realized I wasn't leavin without a title & registration, she kinda laughed looked @ me like I was nuts & did my paper work. Have faith & be optimistic. If your MCO says nothing bout off road only I think you should be OK. It might even pay to go to notary n let them deal with PennDot. Got any friends who knows somebody that knows somebody? lol
	0

07-17-2012, 11:14 PM	#12
Dizball250 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Central, Pa Posts: 39	My aunt is an auto dealer/notary does that help?
	0

07-18-2012, 06:39 PM	#13
fishman10 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: central PA Posts: 770	penndot no knowing a notary will not help as in other states,,,,you have to go to the state,,,Just go down to harrisburg with your mso,bill of sale,,vin verification form,,,(easily obtained from notary) get a certified inspection mechanic to sign with his number,,and proof of motorcylce insurance if you want to get tags,, an give it a try,,,,,it took me three tries,but i got it done,,,,The vin. verification is a must !!!!! some of the clerks won't accept a vin tracing// rubbing.PA license brokers (a large notary chain) told me they were not allowed to put the chinese vin's thru,,,that i must go directly to state,,,,and don't be surprised if the clerk calls in ththe supervisor to handle it,just be polite and ask what you need to to to make it right.I've been thru it twice now with the zong and pitsterpro and it wasnt easy! __________________ 2015 zongshen rx3,,(Sold),,,2016 bashan storm,,2005 Harley ultra classic.
	0

02-07-2016, 04:18 PM	#15
HappyAndy Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Philly 'burbs Posts: 18	Is this problem still going on in Pennsylvania? I'm thinking about getting a Lifan Pony to buzz around the neighborhood. I'm wondering if its worth trying for a PA title & reg, or if I should just go straight to Vermont. Has anyone in in PA been hassled for riding on a VT plate? I've seen a few Jap bikes riding around with them, but haven't had a chance to talk to the owners. It's also my understanding that PA is funny about transferring in out of state China bike titles too. I read over on mychinamoto that I he Pony is recognized as a 49 state legal bike by the feds ( I will do my own homework to confirm) , but the PA state government is notoriously disfunctional these days, so my expectations are low.
	0