Project XL185/CG250 swap

[XLsior]

Just taking some time to appreciate the complete Honda Loom when compared to the absolute hack job harness that came with the CG250.

Would like like to avoid adding to the chaos.

I know the correct way to incorporate the 2 and am aiming to remove the necessary honda electrics as a separate complete basic loom to resurrect the honda motor on its own free standing.

This will take a considerable amount more effort than a dirty cut and splice but its the only proper way to do it.

Just some pictures for reference.

[XLsior]

So after much head scratching I opted to just get a new wiring loom/harness for a CG250. ebay---$45AUD shipped---In my post box less than a week.

Everything in the center of the photo shows the new loom. top is Honda, below is the CG250 hack job.

Seemed to make more sense/value to keep the honda loom complete which if i ever get around to restoring the 185cc engine might come in handy. fairly good chance i'll just sell the left over classic parts to recoup some expenses.

So the new loom solves most of the issues of the swap, that being the 6v to 12v, and unknown condition of the used parts.

It also seems the new loom takes into acount some other accessories/switch gear...lights/horn/indicators.

Ive tried to find a wiring diagram but the colors seem to change.

Also any idea what the little red module that came with the hack job is labeled (?).

Will have to make additions to the loom, but need to confirm the engine runs and rides before I dump more cash at the digi dash cluster.

Will hopefully get more involved with the project, but the house renovations are taking priority.

And booked my first preliminary riding lesson 1st week February. So the incentive to get things done is more motivation.

Cheers.

[Megadan]

That little unknown red box may very well be a separate AC Regulator. Sounds strange, but back in the day Honda used to do some goofy things with electronics and run some stuff on AC and others on DC, so you would have a DC RegRec and an AC Reg along side it. That's just a guess though as it would be odd to see an AC Regulator in a plastic case and not metal.

[XLsior]

Hi Dan, interesting but the thing is the red Regulator came with the CG250 hack loom not the 6v honda XL loom.

My CG250 may have not been the first time it was swapped....

Out with the old in with the new.

[XLsior]

So...had to tweak the header pipe bend radius tighter and a slight upkick to prevent the pipe making contact with the clutch cable lower adjustment and pivot.

the area that needed tweak was too close the exit flange to make a blow torch heat up and bend attempt possible...well with my equipment at hand.

Opted to use a grinder with a cut off wheel and basically did a semi pie cut, bend and shut approach.

Had to visualize in my mind how it would turn out before going ahead as there was no going back...fortunately my arts training back in the day seems to have paid off.

Welder practice and grinding finesse as per usual.

Reused the Honda heat shield so welded new mounting nuts to the CG250 header pipe.

Applied VHT very high temp paint as protection.

First attempt at fiber glass header wrapping. 1 ebay roll 2" wide was just enough to do the whole header pipe. soaked the roll in water and worked from the back to front so the overlap isn't as effected by wind and wipe outs moving forwards.

Install some bolts into the heat shield mounts to keep the holes clear and wrap over the bolts piercing the wrap if necessary.

zip ties for temporary fixing if needed doubled up on the metal zip ties final fix.

Wear gloves and not you best clothes, the glass fiber will get around and cause an itch. Soaking the roll helps but its more so for helping the wrap shrink down onto the pipe when it dries.

[XLsior]

Pros and cons for doing it but for me the pros out perform the cons.

Also I like the way it looks.

And yes that's how tight a CG250 engine fits into an xl185 frame.

Cheers.

[JerryHawk250]

Chalk that one up as a win. Nothing a little welding and grinding can't fix.

[XLsior]

As I am figuring out the cables and wiring and also getting close to first start.

I came to a conclusion on the location for the coil. But I had to find a way of attaching it.

Luckily the CG Hack loom coil came with a fixed bracket. So after I liberated the bracket and drilled out a hole in the frame for the thread end. it all tucked up reasonably well.

And thankfully the fuel tank still fits but I think the coil does make contact so will ad a bit of foam tape or such to prevent any long term friction issues.

[XLsior]

The replacement wiring kit came with a new stator, Seeing as the original was in unknown condition and the plug connector has been torn off with an assortment of crimp connectors. Seemed to make sense to replace it with the new one.

I also found the shift sensor location and the sender wires had appeared to been cut flush...could this be factory? Well I found a replacement from AliX after I had ordered the wrong one. Make sure to match the contact pattern...

So I installed the new shift sensor/neutral indicator while doing the stator replacement.

There is a hidden cover bolt behind the starter reduction gear and 2x long phillips head bolts also need to be removed from the back of the starter motor. This along with the rest of the cover bolts should get the cover off.

I purchased a CG250 gasket kit which if you are unsure of how stuck the condition of the cover gasket is might need replacing...This was my case.

So removing old gasket with a razor and clean up with fine sand paper. I used a gasket tack seal on the cover side to make it stick to the cover and used engine oil to lube the engine case mating face, in the hope that if the cover comes off again that gasket will play nice and stay on the cover side.

The preinstalled stator looked original with its ZS part number and visual deterioration. The hardware looked unmolested. I am not sure if the ignition timing pick up is held down with JIS headed bolts but they were in there tight so be careful. A dab blue loctite was used installing the stator, pickup and shift sensor.

Flywheel bolt looks like it might have come off or if the marks are from factory installation? However I don't feel the case has been split the condition of internals inspected seem to indicate the rest of the engine is in very good condition.

Also showing the starter reduction gear spindle with the original snapped pin and the replacement that came pinless also the shims that had to be replaced as they were absent...

[XLsior]

So the original pz27 that came with the honda installed on the CG250 in frame fitted.

But The PZ30B is a chunky unit and the actuator peripherals appear to foul on the frame no matter what inlet manifold I try to use. I even purchased another 30mm inlet manifold that was a bit shorter than the Honda original and tried shaving the face to make the angle enough to squeeze the carb in...

No good...

Chopped a bit off useless bracket on that actuator side but still collided with the frame.

I have my limits and though I considered it, I am not keen on drilling and tapping new new mount points on the head for a possible manifold position that might* allow PZ30B clearance.

I looked at a universal adapter plates but the issue is they would likely put the carb uneven and only appear to be in sizes for more longitudinal 150cc and under engines which makes sense.

Its a very specific fit and my now 3 inlet manifolds just can't make it happen.

Appears I have to get another Carb and because I would prefer to keep the Honda choke cable, the bracket is required.

Which to me suggest a plain Jane PZ30...There might be alternatives but I don't won't to kill my wallet chasing performance when I am still just a rookie rider. however am open to alternative suggestions.

Bit of a let down but not every thing just works on a project bike.

Side note, had my first lesson and things went well, another session tomorrow and i'll have my learner permit.

[franque]

That really stinks. Just so you know, the bracket on the right side is for the accelerator pump. The choke is on the left side.

Unless you have/bought the split Honda accelerator cable (wouldn't have come stock), or a Chinese one, the pump won't work anyway, so you could just remove that bracket and the lever on that side, as long as it doesn't create an air leak.

You can get a cable that's compatible with the PZ30B accelerator pump, but if you're running into clearance issues, just take the bracket off and run it like it's a regular PZ30. It won't hurt anything, other than maybe your ability to power wheelie it in 1st or 2nd, which I'm guessing is outside of the design brief.

[China Rider 27]

Had the same problem on the Magician. It should run as Franque says if you can get it to fit.

[XLsior]

Hi Franque, I purchased a complete PZ30B kit that came with the PZ30B, spit cable, air filter and throttle.

It would fit fine with a very specific inlet manifold angle and length, but that's getting into custom fabrication territory which I don't have the resources to achieve right now.

However i'll try to run the carb amputated and see how it goes. Might lose perkiness but probably gain some fuel economy so that's something I suppose.

[XLsior]

So removed the PZ30B actuator and it fits...

Following up the the chain we get to the splitter cable that comes with these PZ30B complete kits.

For the XL185 they are too long and I am not interested in sloppy spaghetti cables. So I tried to swap the Honda Cable onto the throttle and carb slide. But the throw on the cable is too short for the roller throttle. Which means the slide gets pinned open...

Ok so the PZ30 -B fits but the cable doesn't...looked for separate single cable correct length and throw conclusion pricey.

Next step look for 250cc throttles with only a single cable...BAM

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3269...79944c7am9TS0X

Shiny Red CNC throttle upgrade with perfect cable...SOLD.

Some times stumbling over things lead to better outcomes.

[XLsior]

So while I and the rest of you following along wait for the new throttle and cable, more parts and upgrades for the XL are filtering into the post box.

New engine kill and push start buttons arrived that didn't come/not included with the wiring kit for some reason.

and a universal windshield from AliX in smoke.

It arrived surprisingly fast after ordering packaging wasn't great and might have caused some of the micro stress fractures in the Acrylic shield form impact stress in shipping.

Well for less than $20 no drama and better than anything I could DIY.

Most addons from the land of the dragon seem to use M6 6mm metric threads, so I have found the bulk M6 lock nuts I purchased have been really useful. As in now I can affix the shield to the supplied brackets knowing they are less likely to come loose.

Next issue was the width of the mounting points in relation to my head light bracket...

Heat gun to the rescue. bit of even heat and mild pressure and the shield can be manipulated, you could try an oven bake to warm up the screen if you don't have a heat gun but don't complain to me if you end up with a pancake. Heat guns are cheap and useful so perhaps consider 1 for yourself if you don't have 1 already, super good for heat shrink tube and removing stubborn stickers and decals too.

The brackets were given a few taps and a twist in the vice to line up the mount points .

Happy with the result.