Troubleshooting help - bike isn't starting but also hasn't been ridden in a yr

woodlandsprite · 02-28-2021, 01:12 PM

hello hello - haven't visited the forums in a while, glad to see they are still active!

I haven't ridden my bike in a while (>yr) thanks to a variety of reasons. Anyhow, It's been sitting in the garage on a tender all this time, but when I went to start it yesterday, it sounds like the battery is good, starter is good, but the motor is not catching.

I'm guessing this means either I have a clog in my fuel delivery or the spark plug is not great. If I had to bet, I'd be betting on the fuel. Looked in the tank, it doesn't look sludgy, but I'm not sure if it was going to gel if it would gel at the bottom first.

Not sure if I should siphon the tank and refuel with fresh and see if that takes care of it or if I should plan to siphon, change the fuel filter....and possibly the injector - given how sticky the gas cap latch was, I'm guessing the injector might be gummed.

Thoughts?

Working_ZS · 02-28-2021, 06:37 PM

First thing that I would ask you is does the fuel pump cycle when you turn on the ignition? If not, make sure that the kill switch is in the on position and try again. If it still isn't cycling, you can try unplugging it's connector and applying a very brief pulse (1-2 seconds) of reverse polarity power to its terminals with jumper wires attached to the battery terminals or better yet, a PowerProbe. This will cause the pump motor to turn in the opposite direction than it normally does and hopefully break it free from any debris or gummed fuel that could be in it.

Given the length of time that the bike has sat, I would also replace the gas in the tank with fresh fuel, as well as install a new fuel filter. Another user on here recently experienced issues on a 2016 RX3 he had just purchased, with 1200 miles on it, IIRC, where the fuel filter came apart internally, most likely due to water in the gas dissolving the water based glue that is used to hold the filter element in place inside the filter canister. This choked off the fuel to the injector and cause the engine to lean out badly, lose power, and eventually die. Even though you are in Arizona, a dry climate, the ethanol in the gasoline can, and does, attract and retain moisture over time. You may be experiencing something similar.

Working_ZS · 02-28-2021, 06:44 PM

Also, when you drain the fuel tank, inspect the fuel pump filter sock inside the tank - a RX3 user on ADVRider had his disintegrate and the pump sucked debris into the gerotor and jammed. I believe he is now running his without the sock, once he got the pump unjammed, since the filter sock is not available as a separate part, but only as part of a whole new fuel pump assembly from CSC.

woodlandsprite · 02-28-2021, 07:04 PM

thanks for the suggestions, the pump *sounds* like it is cycling when the bike is turned on. I've an email into CSC as well asking if they have suggestions, but will plan on the fuel filter replacement at a minimum.

pyoungbl · 03-01-2021, 10:04 AM

When you drain the tank make sure to get 100% of the fuel out. I'd even take the tank off, flip it over, remove the fuel pump, and use paper towels to get the last of the liquid out. The problem is that ethanol will attract moisture and the combined non fuel will drop out of solution, falling to the bottom of the tank. Now the fuel pump is picking up that crap so you really need to make sure you are getting real fuel into the system. With the tank off it's super easy to replace the fuel filter, as others have mentioned. There is a chance that the injector is also plugged but I'd fix the tank and filter first (cheap stuff first) and injector only as a last resort.

woodlandsprite · 04-11-2021, 07:12 PM

Urg. Gas siphoned out, fuel filter changed. Forgot to inspect the pump sock, fresh premium fuel added.... still no go. The old fuel filter definitely had gas in it as it leaked all over me when I pulled it.

It starts using starter fluid sprayed down the air intake so I’m now guessing it’s the injector.

Thoughts?

pyoungbl · 04-12-2021, 10:08 AM

Yes, the injector sounds like the next logical step. Damn ethanol! You can disconnect the injector from the engine and try cranking the engine over in order to see if the injector is spraying.

Working_ZS · 04-12-2021, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodlandsprite

Urg. Gas siphoned out, fuel filter changed. Forgot to inspect the pump sock, fresh premium fuel added.... still no go. The old fuel filter definitely had gas in it as it leaked all over me when I pulled it.

It starts using starter fluid sprayed down the air intake so I’m now guessing it’s the injector.

Thoughts?

I'll second pyoungbl's suggestion. This will both confirm the injector is OK or clogged, while also verifying that it is electrically being commanded to fire by the ECU.

If you're not comfortable with removing the injector, you can still test the electrical signal from the ECU to the injector, this will at least verify that the ECU is commanding the injector to fire. The easiest way is with a "noid" light. It's just a small bulb with electrical pins that matches your fuel injector connector. They sell them in sets at auto parts stores for $20-$30. Plug one in that matches the pin spacing of your fuel injector connector and try to start the bike. While cranking, the noid light should blink on and off, confirming that the ECU is OK and is trying to feed fuel to the engine.

If it doesn't blink while cranking, then you have another issue apart from the fuel system; however, since it runs on starting fluid, I suspect the fuel system. You either have a clog somewhere, or an electrical problem with the injector.

woodlandsprite · 04-12-2021, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Working_ZS

If you're not comfortable with removing the injector, you can still test the electrical signal from the ECU to the injector, this will at least verify that the ECU is commanding the injector to fire. The easiest way is with a "noid" light. It's just a small bulb with electrical pins that matches your fuel injector connector. They sell them in sets at auto parts stores for $20-$30. Plug one in that matches the pin spacing of your fuel injector connector and try to start the bike. While cranking, the noid light should blink on and off, confirming that the ECU is OK and is trying to feed fuel to the engine.

If it doesn't blink while cranking, then you have another issue apart from the fuel system; however, since it runs on starting fluid, I suspect the fuel system. You either have a clog somewhere, or an electrical problem with the injector.

Thank you for this. I’m very much a novice at wrenching and the idea of yanking the injector was lightly wigging me out. I will see if I can find a noid light. I’m guessing I’m going to have to pull everything apart again to get at the injector and the connector...to do this test, am I going to want to leave everything as connected as possible but maybe not sitting in its normal position? (2 plugs on the bottom of the gas tank probably need to stay connected, yes?)

Working_ZS · 04-13-2021, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodlandsprite

Thank you for this. I’m very much a novice at wrenching and the idea of yanking the injector was lightly wigging me out. I will see if I can find a noid light. I’m guessing I’m going to have to pull everything apart again to get at the injector and the connector...to do this test, am I going to want to leave everything as connected as possible but maybe not sitting in its normal position? (2 plugs on the bottom of the gas tank probably need to stay connected, yes?)

Yes, leave everything connected electrically, apart from the fuel injector. Remove its electrical connector and plug in the noid light whose pins match the terminal spacing in the connector. Then crank the bike with the kill switch "On" and see if the noid light is blinking as you crank the engine. If so, we know that the ECU and wiring are OK, so the lack of fuel has to be a mechanical clog somewhere.

woodlandsprite · 05-07-2021, 03:52 PM

well poop. It might be the fuel pump after all. I called CSC service to talk through my problems - the fuel pump is super quiet and I hardly hear it at all when the gas cap is open and i put my ear right over it - I failed to take y'alls advice to pull the fuel pump when I had the tank empty the first time because I though i heard the pump working okay so as penance it looks like I will be learning how to pull the fuel pump after all. And for dragging my feet about it, I'm going to have to service the bike in a hot garage because it's heating up here in the desert.

woodlandsprite · 06-12-2021, 03:42 PM

Update, looks like it was the pump. The fuel sock was totally disintegrated.

Waiting for the tank to dry out before I button it back up. Couldn’t get my hand in there to get all the bits out so resorted to a rinse and bake in the sun Til dry.

SGCSCRX3 · 06-12-2021, 07:01 PM

That's good to know. I never looked at mine when I had my tank off. I always try to keep the tank full with non ethanol fuel when I can get it. Hope the new pump lasts you a while

Working_ZS · 06-13-2021, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodlandsprite

Update, looks like it was the pump. The fuel sock was totally disintegrated.

Waiting for the tank to dry out before I button it back up. Couldn’t get my hand in there to get all the bits out so resorted to a rinse and bake in the sun Til dry.

This sounds like the same issue that inroads posted about over on ADVRider, his in tank fuel strainer disintegrated too.

I will probably be draining and checking this on my 2015 RX3; it is getting close to valve check time, being over 17,000 miles and I haven't checked them since around the 12,000 mile mark. I haven't been riding it much since I got the RX4, but the battery is kept charged and I cycle the ignition key on once or twice a week to cycle the fuel pump. I will probably just replace the fuel strainer with one from another vehicle that matches the inlet diameter on the fuel pump. I currently have a Denso strainer that I am going to try; if it fits, I will post up the part number here for everyone.

rd1959 · 06-15-2021, 01:27 PM

A similar thing happened to the gentleman that purchased my 2017 RX3. I never rode it much as it had only about 1200-1500 miles when sold, and within a few days after buying it he posted that during a freeway run the bike backfired, lost power, and flames were coming from the exhaust. He got safely off the freeway and the bike started back up and ran well enough to get back home. Upon inspection he discovered chunks of something in the fuel tank. It ended up being chunks of the glue that held the fuel pump together.
I guess me letting it sit up for so long allowed the "gasohol" to break up that glue substance.

02-28-2021, 01:12 PM	#1
woodlandsprite Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 366	Troubleshooting help - bike isn't starting but also hasn't been ridden in a yr hello hello - haven't visited the forums in a while, glad to see they are still active! I haven't ridden my bike in a while (>yr) thanks to a variety of reasons. Anyhow, It's been sitting in the garage on a tender all this time, but when I went to start it yesterday, it sounds like the battery is good, starter is good, but the motor is not catching. I'm guessing this means either I have a clog in my fuel delivery or the spark plug is not great. If I had to bet, I'd be betting on the fuel. Looked in the tank, it doesn't look sludgy, but I'm not sure if it was going to gel if it would gel at the bottom first. Not sure if I should siphon the tank and refuel with fresh and see if that takes care of it or if I should plan to siphon, change the fuel filter....and possibly the injector - given how sticky the gas cap latch was, I'm guessing the injector might be gummed. Thoughts?
	0

06-12-2021, 03:42 PM	#12
woodlandsprite Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 366	Update, looks like it was the pump. The fuel sock was totally disintegrated. Waiting for the tank to dry out before I button it back up. Couldn’t get my hand in there to get all the bits out so resorted to a rinse and bake in the sun Til dry. Last edited by woodlandsprite; 06-13-2021 at 02:12 PM.
	1

02-28-2021, 06:37 PM	#2
Working_ZS Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 365	First thing that I would ask you is does the fuel pump cycle when you turn on the ignition? If not, make sure that the kill switch is in the on position and try again. If it still isn't cycling, you can try unplugging it's connector and applying a very brief pulse (1-2 seconds) of reverse polarity power to its terminals with jumper wires attached to the battery terminals or better yet, a PowerProbe. This will cause the pump motor to turn in the opposite direction than it normally does and hopefully break it free from any debris or gummed fuel that could be in it. Given the length of time that the bike has sat, I would also replace the gas in the tank with fresh fuel, as well as install a new fuel filter. Another user on here recently experienced issues on a 2016 RX3 he had just purchased, with 1200 miles on it, IIRC, where the fuel filter came apart internally, most likely due to water in the gas dissolving the water based glue that is used to hold the filter element in place inside the filter canister. This choked off the fuel to the injector and cause the engine to lean out badly, lose power, and eventually die. Even though you are in Arizona, a dry climate, the ethanol in the gasoline can, and does, attract and retain moisture over time. You may be experiencing something similar.
	1

02-28-2021, 06:44 PM	#3
Working_ZS Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 365	Also, when you drain the fuel tank, inspect the fuel pump filter sock inside the tank - a RX3 user on ADVRider had his disintegrate and the pump sucked debris into the gerotor and jammed. I believe he is now running his without the sock, once he got the pump unjammed, since the filter sock is not available as a separate part, but only as part of a whole new fuel pump assembly from CSC.
	1

02-28-2021, 07:04 PM	#4
woodlandsprite Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 366	thanks for the suggestions, the pump sounds like it is cycling when the bike is turned on. I've an email into CSC as well asking if they have suggestions, but will plan on the fuel filter replacement at a minimum.
	0

03-01-2021, 10:04 AM	#5
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	When you drain the tank make sure to get 100% of the fuel out. I'd even take the tank off, flip it over, remove the fuel pump, and use paper towels to get the last of the liquid out. The problem is that ethanol will attract moisture and the combined non fuel will drop out of solution, falling to the bottom of the tank. Now the fuel pump is picking up that crap so you really need to make sure you are getting real fuel into the system. With the tank off it's super easy to replace the fuel filter, as others have mentioned. There is a chance that the injector is also plugged but I'd fix the tank and filter first (cheap stuff first) and injector only as a last resort.
	1

04-11-2021, 07:12 PM	#6
woodlandsprite Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 366	Urg. Gas siphoned out, fuel filter changed. Forgot to inspect the pump sock, fresh premium fuel added.... still no go. The old fuel filter definitely had gas in it as it leaked all over me when I pulled it. It starts using starter fluid sprayed down the air intake so I’m now guessing it’s the injector. Thoughts?
	0

04-12-2021, 10:08 AM	#7
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	Yes, the injector sounds like the next logical step. Damn ethanol! You can disconnect the injector from the engine and try cranking the engine over in order to see if the injector is spraying.
	1

05-07-2021, 03:52 PM	#11
woodlandsprite Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 366	well poop. It might be the fuel pump after all. I called CSC service to talk through my problems - the fuel pump is super quiet and I hardly hear it at all when the gas cap is open and i put my ear right over it - I failed to take y'alls advice to pull the fuel pump when I had the tank empty the first time because I though i heard the pump working okay so as penance it looks like I will be learning how to pull the fuel pump after all. And for dragging my feet about it, I'm going to have to service the bike in a hot garage because it's heating up here in the desert.
	0

06-12-2021, 07:01 PM	#13
SGCSCRX3 Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 47	That's good to know. I never looked at mine when I had my tank off. I always try to keep the tank full with non ethanol fuel when I can get it. Hope the new pump lasts you a while
	1

06-15-2021, 01:27 PM	#15
rd1959 Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Monroe,NC Posts: 131	A similar thing happened to the gentleman that purchased my 2017 RX3. I never rode it much as it had only about 1200-1500 miles when sold, and within a few days after buying it he posted that during a freeway run the bike backfired, lost power, and flames were coming from the exhaust. He got safely off the freeway and the bike started back up and ran well enough to get back home. Upon inspection he discovered chunks of something in the fuel tank. It ended up being chunks of the glue that held the fuel pump together. I guess me letting it sit up for so long allowed the "gasohol" to break up that glue substance.
	0