Zongshen Dakar bike and RX4 - Page 4

Juanro · 01-04-2017, 08:13 AM

Our fellow on site says:
"Por motivos climáticos, los pilotos chinos primerizos no dieron y el piloto francés ya es de la vieja guardia una moto presentó un desperfecto mecánico, los demás simplemente les quedó grande el poncho!!!
Thierry va bien a un ritmo constante y dejando atrás a varias KTM, Huqsvarna, Kawasaki etc"

Apparently the hot climate and tiredness took its toll. The first timers, and the other french guy (he said "old school", an euphemism for "older"), couldn't make it, but Thierry is doing fine.

BlackBike · 01-04-2017, 07:48 PM

Motorcycles ...Straight away speed for leaders was 108mph. Temps were 104 F . Dry dusty potmarked with huge waterholes in the road. Been watching on nbcsn. 2 stages down, real navigation stages up next. On the public roads they have to maintain speed limits.

Inroads · 01-05-2017, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juanro

Our fellow on site says:
"Por motivos climáticos, los pilotos chinos primerizos no dieron y el piloto francés ya es de la vieja guardia una moto presentó un desperfecto mecánico, los demás simplemente les quedó grande el poncho!!!
Thierry va bien a un ritmo constante y dejando atrás a varias KTM, Huqsvarna, Kawasaki etc"

Apparently the hot climate and tiredness took its toll. The first timers, and the other french guy (he said "old school", an euphemism for "older"), couldn't make it, but Thierry is doing fine.

It sounds as if no bike mechanical gremlins just riders.

That is nice to hear.

Juanro · 01-05-2017, 10:31 AM

AdventureDad · 01-05-2017, 08:33 PM

Give me a freaking break. Hand each of those babies a pacifier and his termination papers. Mr. Zongshen wasted untold amounts of money, and now looks like a fool. The motorcycle world was watching his companys efforts. Didn't these kids realize it was going to be hard? Im sorry (no, I'm not sorry for feeling the way I do) , but I am old school in my values. I believe in a firm handshake, keeping one's word, behaving civilly, and finishing what you start.

Kids these days...and adults too, hit a roadblock and just stop. They have no critical thinking skills or the fortitude to push on. I see it every single day.

AdventureDad · 01-05-2017, 09:33 PM

So? Quitters are quitters. Dont attempt it if you dont have what it takes. I am not including injury or mechanical failures. Im talking about fortitude.

Juanro · 01-05-2017, 09:43 PM

While I'm not justifying them, the race is really, really hard. They must have severily underestimated the physical aptitude needed.
On the other hand, if it were me, I've dragged my ass at a walking pace until they dequalified me, wich they do anyway if you don't complete the stage within a certain time frame. In the event of me winning the Loto (I must start buying tickets someday...) racing the Dakar as a private is one of the things I intend to do.

pyoungbl · 01-05-2017, 09:59 PM

At least two of the Zong riders had lots of Dakar experience. I certainly don't have the fortitude to go balls to the wall for 800 KM at 104F. These are not spring chickens. Let's see: Bethes, 1971; Heien 1966; Jobard 1961; Min 1977; Hongyi 1980. That makes the youngest rider 36 years old. Jobard is 55 years old. Jobard has competed in 7 Dakar races. Bethys has been in 5 Dakar races. The other three were novice riders (in Dakar) but not their first rodeo. I'd say that these are five pretty tough dudes in a darn tough race. Between the heat and altitude they might have met their match but I cannot agree that anyone should be handing out pacifiers. KTM has taken Dakar for the past 16 years. Prior to that...not so much. Even big orange had a learning curve. I'd prefer to see this as a great product development opportunity. If the bikes broke, fix them. Is it worth the cost of getting the #1 ranked Dakar rider...probably not, given that Dakar is only of interest to a very small part of the motorcycle community. Heck, ask your buddies if they are following Dakar 2017. I'll bet the answer is WTF??.

AdventureDad · 01-05-2017, 10:23 PM

I totally understand that it is a VERY tough event. One that for many reasons, is so far out of my league its not funny. I guess I was ranting about starting something and not finishing it. In my world, if you are given a task, you do it. Period. Complete the mission, whatever happened to that? Peter, you said you are a retired military officer, so you give your guys an order in a critical mission..."we're tired, it's hot out, our feet are sore..." would you put up with that? Maybe the Armed Forces today has to in order to have an order followed; if the serviceman wants to, decides to, and if all his needs are met to ensure a healthy psyche or ID. If 2 generations ago said or acted that way, we'd be speaking German, or Japanese...well I wouldn't, I'd have gone away to a camp in the German countryside, along with my family. Point is, even finishing last is finishing. Hugh Glass wouldn't have given up.

Now, if these guys were not given the tools they need to complete the task, then it's on Mr. Zongshen. He did not have the leadership to take command and ownership of the mission. I wouldn't fault the riders if they were told they were going into this without the training, tools, and leadership needed to complete the mission sucessfully. Then it's a suicide mission and will have a negative outcome. Also, why did he hire such aged riders? Was there no one available with a good enough resume willing to take some money for a paid ride?

pyoungbl · 01-05-2017, 10:44 PM

AD, until I get a lot more information about what happened I'm in no position to call these guys quitters. As I understand it, on the Dakar race if you limp in way over the allotted time you are disqualified. That's not quitting. As for the military side, there is a point where common sense trumps dogged determination. If my company is assaulting a hill and we take 50% casualties it's stupid to execute the last 50% of my force just for form. You fall back and come up with a better plan. That way you succeed in the end. It's the end result that counts. In the case of Dakar, if a rider is at risk of dying from heat exhaustion it's stupid to press on. This is just a race, not a fight to the death. I'd appreciate anyone giving the extra effort to drag themselves across the finish line in spite of a busted bike and broken leg. That makes a great story. Dying of heat stroke for a motorcycle race...that's foolish. Once again, I don't have enough information to form an opinion. BTW, my military experience also proved that first reports are ALWAYS wrong. Let's let the dust settle and then revisit this.

BlackBike · 01-05-2017, 11:27 PM

Lyndon poskett shows overall #36 as of today ...still going

https://mobile.twitter.com/dakar/sta...147716/video/1

Imagine racing for 6 hrs, being lost for 2 of those hrs not knowing exactly where to turn next. Then waking up and doing it all over again on 2 wheels...unbelievable

They showed lots of u-turns today

BlackBike · 01-05-2017, 11:56 PM

Juanro...like the guy says in the video, que loco

Thanks for the post

BlackBike · 01-06-2017, 12:38 AM

Malles Moto Class
One of my favorite aspects of the Dakar Rally is that the challenge of finishing the race legitimizes competitors at all levels. This race is about more than just winning, it is a way of life for many competitors. The most challenging way to do the race is a category called Malles Moto, which means no support from a team, the rider must work on their own bike, and they have only a single small box for spare parts (and camping gear) from which to operate. There are two riders, I’m proud to call friends, that you should definitely keep an eye on in the Malles Moto class this year.

The first is Lyndon Poskitt (#100), who has been riding around the world and racing rallies along the way for the last 2.5 years. He has been documenting his progress on YouTube with the “Races to Places” series, and he rode TO this year’s Dakar along his touring route. Doesn’t get much more hardcore than riding to the start of the worlds longest motorcycle race!

Manuel Lucchese (#54) is an Italian friend who epitomizes the resourcefulness needed for Dakar. In past years, he has started Dakar without a plane ticket home after the race, and without a second set of tires. This year, he is racing as a Qatari after the Italian federation denied him a start license. He has been rescued by ranchers, internet groups, and strippers — no matter what the challenge, Manny will find a way.

Dualsport Chic · 01-06-2017, 06:17 AM

Even the defending DAKAR champion is out of the race, breaking his femur in stage IV - only 150 meters from the finish line. I agree with Peter - live to race another day - no use being a martyr - it's just a race - not worth leaving your family behind because of some sick/fatal quest for glory. We don't know all the facts of why these riders dropped out - and it is foolish to think otherwise.

Juanro · 01-06-2017, 07:13 AM

Fifth member of the Zongshen team is out too:

"07:55 Los (numerosos) abandonos de ayer
Si la tercera etapa ya fue difícil para los pilotos, la cuarta jornada hizo estragos de lo lindo. En motos, Thierry Béthys, David Megre, Toby Price, Walter Terblanche, Alessandro Botturi, Rodney Faggotter, Jorge Lacunza, Ronald ter Beek, Armand Monleón y Jurgen van den Goorbergh se vieron obligados a tirar la toalla. En quads, Josef Macháček y Pablo Luis Novara no tomarán hoy la salida, mientras que, en coches, Stefano Marrini, Yazeed Al-Rajhi, Ebert Dollevoet y Carlos Sainz también fueron víctimas de esta demoledora cuarta etapa. Por último, en camiones, el Dakar acabó ayer para Paolo Calabria y Pep Sabaté. "

01-04-2017, 07:48 PM	#47
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Per tv coverage Motorcycles ...Straight away speed for leaders was 108mph. Temps were 104 F . Dry dusty potmarked with huge waterholes in the road. Been watching on nbcsn. 2 stages down, real navigation stages up next. On the public roads they have to maintain speed limits. __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	0

01-05-2017, 11:27 PM	#56
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Lyndon poskett shows overall #36 as of today ...still going https://mobile.twitter.com/dakar/sta...147716/video/1 Imagine racing for 6 hrs, being lost for 2 of those hrs not knowing exactly where to turn next. Then waking up and doing it all over again on 2 wheels...unbelievable They showed lots of u-turns today __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	0

01-05-2017, 11:56 PM	#57
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Juanro...like the guy says in the video, que loco Thanks for the post __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	1

01-06-2017, 12:38 AM	#58
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Taken from dakar website Malles Moto Class One of my favorite aspects of the Dakar Rally is that the challenge of finishing the race legitimizes competitors at all levels. This race is about more than just winning, it is a way of life for many competitors. The most challenging way to do the race is a category called Malles Moto, which means no support from a team, the rider must work on their own bike, and they have only a single small box for spare parts (and camping gear) from which to operate. There are two riders, I’m proud to call friends, that you should definitely keep an eye on in the Malles Moto class this year. The first is Lyndon Poskitt (#100), who has been riding around the world and racing rallies along the way for the last 2.5 years. He has been documenting his progress on YouTube with the “Races to Places” series, and he rode TO this year’s Dakar along his touring route. Doesn’t get much more hardcore than riding to the start of the worlds longest motorcycle race! Manuel Lucchese (#54) is an Italian friend who epitomizes the resourcefulness needed for Dakar. In past years, he has started Dakar without a plane ticket home after the race, and without a second set of tires. This year, he is racing as a Qatari after the Italian federation denied him a start license. He has been rescued by ranchers, internet groups, and strippers — no matter what the challenge, Manny will find a way. __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~ Last edited by BlackBike; 01-06-2017 at 08:33 PM.
	0

01-06-2017, 06:17 AM	#59
Dualsport Chic Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Western, CT Posts: 168	Even the defending DAKAR champion is out of the race, breaking his femur in stage IV - only 150 meters from the finish line. I agree with Peter - live to race another day - no use being a martyr - it's just a race - not worth leaving your family behind because of some sick/fatal quest for glory. We don't know all the facts of why these riders dropped out - and it is foolish to think otherwise. __________________ Carpe Diem IBA#65836 2005 BMW F650gs 2008 Yamaha XT250 2013 Yamaha XT250 2009 Suzuki Gladius
	2

01-04-2017, 08:13 AM	#46
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	Our fellow on site says: "Por motivos climáticos, los pilotos chinos primerizos no dieron y el piloto francés ya es de la vieja guardia una moto presentó un desperfecto mecánico, los demás simplemente les quedó grande el poncho!!! Thierry va bien a un ritmo constante y dejando atrás a varias KTM, Huqsvarna, Kawasaki etc" Apparently the hot climate and tiredness took its toll. The first timers, and the other french guy (he said "old school", an euphemism for "older"), couldn't make it, but Thierry is doing fine.
	0

01-05-2017, 10:31 AM	#49
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321
	1

01-05-2017, 08:33 PM	#50
AdventureDad Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 253	Give me a freaking break. Hand each of those babies a pacifier and his termination papers. Mr. Zongshen wasted untold amounts of money, and now looks like a fool. The motorcycle world was watching his companys efforts. Didn't these kids realize it was going to be hard? Im sorry (no, I'm not sorry for feeling the way I do) , but I am old school in my values. I believe in a firm handshake, keeping one's word, behaving civilly, and finishing what you start. Kids these days...and adults too, hit a roadblock and just stop. They have no critical thinking skills or the fortitude to push on. I see it every single day.
	2

01-05-2017, 09:33 PM	#51
AdventureDad Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 253	So? Quitters are quitters. Dont attempt it if you dont have what it takes. I am not including injury or mechanical failures. Im talking about fortitude.
	0

01-05-2017, 09:43 PM	#52
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	While I'm not justifying them, the race is really, really hard. They must have severily underestimated the physical aptitude needed. On the other hand, if it were me, I've dragged my ass at a walking pace until they dequalified me, wich they do anyway if you don't complete the stage within a certain time frame. In the event of me winning the Loto (I must start buying tickets someday...) racing the Dakar as a private is one of the things I intend to do.
	0

01-05-2017, 09:59 PM	#53
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	At least two of the Zong riders had lots of Dakar experience. I certainly don't have the fortitude to go balls to the wall for 800 KM at 104F. These are not spring chickens. Let's see: Bethes, 1971; Heien 1966; Jobard 1961; Min 1977; Hongyi 1980. That makes the youngest rider 36 years old. Jobard is 55 years old. Jobard has competed in 7 Dakar races. Bethys has been in 5 Dakar races. The other three were novice riders (in Dakar) but not their first rodeo. I'd say that these are five pretty tough dudes in a darn tough race. Between the heat and altitude they might have met their match but I cannot agree that anyone should be handing out pacifiers. KTM has taken Dakar for the past 16 years. Prior to that...not so much. Even big orange had a learning curve. I'd prefer to see this as a great product development opportunity. If the bikes broke, fix them. Is it worth the cost of getting the #1 ranked Dakar rider...probably not, given that Dakar is only of interest to a very small part of the motorcycle community. Heck, ask your buddies if they are following Dakar 2017. I'll bet the answer is WTF??.
	0

01-05-2017, 10:23 PM	#54
AdventureDad Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 253	I totally understand that it is a VERY tough event. One that for many reasons, is so far out of my league its not funny. I guess I was ranting about starting something and not finishing it. In my world, if you are given a task, you do it. Period. Complete the mission, whatever happened to that? Peter, you said you are a retired military officer, so you give your guys an order in a critical mission..."we're tired, it's hot out, our feet are sore..." would you put up with that? Maybe the Armed Forces today has to in order to have an order followed; if the serviceman wants to, decides to, and if all his needs are met to ensure a healthy psyche or ID. If 2 generations ago said or acted that way, we'd be speaking German, or Japanese...well I wouldn't, I'd have gone away to a camp in the German countryside, along with my family. Point is, even finishing last is finishing. Hugh Glass wouldn't have given up. Now, if these guys were not given the tools they need to complete the task, then it's on Mr. Zongshen. He did not have the leadership to take command and ownership of the mission. I wouldn't fault the riders if they were told they were going into this without the training, tools, and leadership needed to complete the mission sucessfully. Then it's a suicide mission and will have a negative outcome. Also, why did he hire such aged riders? Was there no one available with a good enough resume willing to take some money for a paid ride?
	0

01-05-2017, 10:44 PM	#55
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	AD, until I get a lot more information about what happened I'm in no position to call these guys quitters. As I understand it, on the Dakar race if you limp in way over the allotted time you are disqualified. That's not quitting. As for the military side, there is a point where common sense trumps dogged determination. If my company is assaulting a hill and we take 50% casualties it's stupid to execute the last 50% of my force just for form. You fall back and come up with a better plan. That way you succeed in the end. It's the end result that counts. In the case of Dakar, if a rider is at risk of dying from heat exhaustion it's stupid to press on. This is just a race, not a fight to the death. I'd appreciate anyone giving the extra effort to drag themselves across the finish line in spite of a busted bike and broken leg. That makes a great story. Dying of heat stroke for a motorcycle race...that's foolish. Once again, I don't have enough information to form an opinion. BTW, my military experience also proved that first reports are ALWAYS wrong. Let's let the dust settle and then revisit this.
	2

01-06-2017, 07:13 AM	#60
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	Fifth member of the Zongshen team is out too: "07:55 Los (numerosos) abandonos de ayer Si la tercera etapa ya fue difícil para los pilotos, la cuarta jornada hizo estragos de lo lindo. En motos, Thierry Béthys, David Megre, Toby Price, Walter Terblanche, Alessandro Botturi, Rodney Faggotter, Jorge Lacunza, Ronald ter Beek, Armand Monleón y Jurgen van den Goorbergh se vieron obligados a tirar la toalla. En quads, Josef Macháček y Pablo Luis Novara no tomarán hoy la salida, mientras que, en coches, Stefano Marrini, Yazeed Al-Rajhi, Ebert Dollevoet y Carlos Sainz también fueron víctimas de esta demoledora cuarta etapa. Por último, en camiones, el Dakar acabó ayer para Paolo Calabria y Pep Sabaté. "
	0